Update to Lake Related Legislation

[tis]

Originally Posted by tummyman

I cannot support this bill and encourage others to oppose it as well. It only increases the setback from 150 ft to 200 feet from docks, shrelans, etc. We already have the 150 ft headway speed now. Adding another 50 feet does nothing. Instead support HB1390...now that is real change...500 feet. Read that bill on line before you agree to anything. But this senate bill is useless in my opinion.

Why do you suppose the wake boat people want it?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

Why do you suppose the wake boat people want it?

Same reason the recreational boaters supported a NWZ 20 years ago between Eagle and Governor's. They wanted to prove that they were safety supporters. Unnecessary, if MP could/would enforce the 150' boat to boat law.

[tummyman]

This is HB1390 that absolutely should be supported STRONGLY.


HB 1390
1 New Paragraphs; Boating and Water Safety; Definitions Added. Amend RSA 270-D:1 by inserting after paragraph XIII the following new paragraphs:
XIV. "Wakeboat” means a motorboat that has one or more ballast tanks, ballast bags, or other similar devices used to enhance or increase the size of the motorboat’s wake.
XV. “Wakesports” means:
(a) Using a surfboard, wakeboard, hydrofoil, or similar device to ride on or in the wake directly behind a wakeboat with or without a rope, including wake surfing; or
(b) Operating a wakeboat with someone riding the wake directly behind the boat.
XVI. “Wakesports zone” means an area of a waterbody that has a minimum of 50 contiguous acres that are at least 500 feet from shore on all sides and is at least 20 feet deep, located on a lake, pond, or reservoir on which vessels powered by internal combustion motors are allowed and may be used at speeds exceeding 5 miles per hour.
2 New Section; Boating and Water Safety; Wakesports. Amend RSA 270-D by inserting after section 3 the following new section:
270-D:3-a Wakesports.
I. In addition to requirements in this chapter and rules adopted thereunder, the following prohibitions and limitations shall apply:
(a) Wakesports are prohibited between sunset and sunrise.
(b) Wakesports are prohibited behind a vessel propulsion system that extends beyond the swim platform.
(c) Wakesports shall not be permitted:
(1) On a body of water smaller than 50 contiguous acres.
(2) Within 500 feet of a shoreline or in-water structures.
(3) In waters less than 20 feet deep.
II. The commissioner shall develop and make publicly available wakesports zone maps of legal areas on New Hampshire public waters that meet the requirements of paragraph I.
3 New Paragraph; Rulemaking; Wakesports. Amend RSA 270-D:8 by inserting after paragraph II the following new paragraph:
III. Regulation of wakesports under RSA 270-D:3-a.
4 Effective Date. This act shall take effect July 1, 2024.

[codeman671]

I think 500 feet is a bit much. 200-250 would be a good compromise.

As an add on, how about making the safe passage around a water sports vessel 200-250 feet? I can’t count the number of times I have been encroached on when towing by other vessels. At minimum 1 or more times every time we go out.

[Descant]

I don't surf anymore. (since 1970). I don't live anywhere that has a problem with those who do. I do see several flaws in the language in HB1390.
More important is that I think it is misdirected at wake boats. In the 60's and 70's we had surfing without wake boats. Using a 20-22' boat, it was easy to seat 2-3 people in one corner of the stern and create a wake for surfing. Just as the laws restricting jet skis were overridden by making three seat 13' "boats", there will be means to create wakes without ballast tanks. Or, a new (bothersome) sport will come along.

There are (to me) technical flaws. The bill is supposed to be effective July 1, 2024. That would be the date when the DOS is authorized to make wake zone maps. Can't do that simultaneously. I'd guess the DOS needs to bid that out with required time frames for the bid process and then time to actually make the maps. There's no funding provided. If my wake boat with a surfer needs 200' to turn, shouldn't the map show1200' instead of 1000'?Bills that involve penalties for violations are usually effective January 1. This allows time for training, printing new guides, educating staff and the public, etc.

Can I surf near Middle Ground Shoals in the middle of the broads? How about the Witches? And the bay opposite Patrician Shores?

When there are multiple bills on the same subject it is not uncommon for the committee to kill all except one, and vote the last one as "Interim Study". I would support Interim Study. That means the bill will get a report to the House at the end of the session and a new bill will be filed next year. 2025 is a budget year so that will solve the issue of the cost of mapping.

[tummyman]

There probably would not be a need for any legislation if the wakeboat/surfers were more considerate of where they are operating. Operations in smaller coves and going back and forth for hours on end are causing all sort of erosion etc. to shore-lands and thus people feel the only remedy is some sort of legislative fix. In the cove where my property is located, we have these boats going back and forth for hours on end without interruption. I have had broken boat lines, broken mooring whips, etc. and we cannot even sit on the end of the dock near the shore because of waves that break over the rocks and splash on the dock from enormous waves. With such a large lake with long straight runs, I do not understand why the small coves need to see this activity.

[John Mercier]

So maybe amend the bill for all vessels within 500 feet of shore are subject to the speed restrictions of a ''No Wake'' zone...

New maps would be an addition, but the MP could ticket for any violation of the 500 foot rule without the maps.

I believe that two-seater and stand-ups have a 300 foot shoreline rule, and they can't displace more water than a large boat operating in the same manner.

[Lakegeezer]

Looking at LWA's map referenced in their earlier post (or image below), 500' makes a lot of sense (inside blue lines). It pinches off the narrow areas that are most effected by wake boat tsunamis. 200' has little impact. 1000' would be better! As LWA points out, there is still plenty of space in the lake to wakeboard, but keeping the sport out of the narrow areas is a good compromise. With increased frequency and duration of cyanobacteria blooms, it is time to address the low hanging fruit of root causes.

[longislander]

2024-01-30 House Committee Report: Inexpedient to Legislate 01/24/2024 (Vote 18-2; Regular Calendar)

https://legiscan.com/NH/bill/HB1049/2024

[John Mercier]

Regular calendar means we should know the outcome of the House vote soon enough.

[longislander]

Inexpedient to Legislate 01/24/2024 (Vote 18-2; Regular Calendar)

Means it's dead!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by longislander

Inexpedient to Legislate 01/24/2024 (Vote 18-2; Regular Calendar)

Means it's dead!

Gasping for breath but not dead yet. So far, ITL is just the recommendation of the RR&D Committee. Their report is printed in the House calendar published Feb 2 for full house consideration on Thursday Feb 8. The full house can accept the report, amend the bill and pass it with amendment or return it to committee. There is no minority report in the calendar, so it is unlikely that there will be floor debate or any action other than ITL, but you won't know for sure until after the House takes action on Thursday.
Here are the calendars. #5; Scroll down to page 15 for RR&D reports

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...dars_journals/

[John Mercier]

I knew paying attention in elementary school would come in handy.

[longislander]

... and those that get to go high school really excel!

Their report is printed in the House calendar published Feb 2 for full house consideration on Thursday Feb 8. T

Feb 4-10 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MEETING SCHEDULE

Where is it?

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...yschedule.aspx


The Bill on the Floor of the House or Senate
All bills may be acted upon the day after the committee report appears in the House Calendar. Any amendments proposed by the committee which make material changes in the original bill must be printed in the calendar.

Action on bills is taken on the second reading on the floor of the House or Senate. Debate, if any, is held and amendments are made at this time.

A bill is considered killed when the House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate," or when a motion from the floor to "Indefinitely postpone" is adopted.

https://www.nh.gov/almanac/bills.htm...20is%20adopted.



A bill is considered killed when the
House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate,"

https://www4.des.state.nh.us/blogs/r...omes-a-Law.pdf


So why have a committee if not to follow the recommendation? Really important stuff, huh!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by longislander

... and those that get to go high school really excel!




Feb 4-10 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MEETING SCHEDULE

Where is it?

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...yschedule.aspx


The Bill on the Floor of the House or Senate
All bills may be acted upon the day after the committee report appears in the House Calendar. Any amendments proposed by the committee which make material changes in the original bill must be printed in the calendar.

Action on bills is taken on the second reading on the floor of the House or Senate. Debate, if any, is held and amendments are made at this time.

A bill is considered killed when the House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate," or when a motion from the floor to "Indefinitely postpone" is adopted.

https://www.nh.gov/almanac/bills.htm...20is%20adopted.



A bill is considered killed when the
House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate,"

https://www4.des.state.nh.us/blogs/r...omes-a-Law.pdf


So why have a committee if not to follow the recommendation? Really important stuff, huh!

First Where is it?
You asked "Where is it" then posted the link to the House page. So far, so good. From there, click on Calendars. On the pull down, click on Calendars and Journals. Then select Calendars, 2024 and #5 from the menu blocks. The "View PDF". And go to page 15.

Second, Why have committees?
Each session (January to June 30, there are over 1000 bills filed in the House. hundreds more in the Senate. Each is entitled to a public hearing and a vote on the floor. Committees in NH cannot kill a bill with a pocket veto as they do in other jurisdictions. The committees do the screening, amending, combining, etc. to take the bills to the floor. Some bills go onto the consent calendar where 50-60 bills may be acted on with one single voice vote. Then the remaining bills on the calendar are acted on individually. While each bill on the regular calendar has an individual vote, not all bills are debated. That's up to members who wish to, or decline, to speak.

[longislander]

This is what it says:

HB1049, relative to the prohibition on overnight mooring of houseboats. INEXPEDIENT TO LEGISLATE.
Rep. Suzanne Vail for Resources, Recreation and Development. This bill repeals RSA 270-A:3 to allow owners and operators of houseboats to drop anchor and/or beach a houseboat overnight on water body that is held in public trust (inland waters over 10 acres in size), as long as the boat has both temporary or permanent sleeping facilities and a temporary or permanent sanitation facility that would have to be pumped out or dumped once back on land, thus not in the lake. The committee learned that this repeal lifts restrictions on houseboats in a broad manner. It applies to any boat, from any place, mooring anywhere on any inland waterway greater than 10 acres in size, for any reason and any length of time. This might open up inland waterways to houseboats parked indefinitely as housing, commercial enterprises such as restaurants, short term rentals, and other difficulties, as there is no restricted usage or provision for mooring and beaching of houseboats. Vote 18-2.

It says :

The House will meet on Thursday, February 8th at 10:00 a.m

Does it mean they met regarding HB1049?

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MEETING SCHEDULE

Where is it on Feb.8

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...yschedule.aspx

NOTICE
There will be a Republican Caucus on Thursday, February 8th at 9:00 a.m. in Representatives Hall

NOTICE
There will be a Democratic Caucus on Thursday, February 8th at 9:00 a.m. in the State House Cafeteria.

Again, where is it scheduled for reconsideration?

It lookslike an amendment was made on Feb. 2

Floor Amendment to HB 1049
Amend the bill by replacing section 1 with the following:
1 House Boats; Overnight Mooring Prohibited. RSA 270-A:3 is repealed and reenacted to read as follows:
270-A:3 Where Overnight Mooring Prohibited. Unless it is allowed pursuant to RSA 270-A:2, no houseboat, as defined in RSA 270-A:1, II, shall be anchored
overnight for more than 3 consecutive nights in any one-week period.

This will overturn the ITL? Sure!

Not why we have committees ... why not follow committee recommendations.

How many "inexpedient to legislative" bills have become law! Number or a percentage will do.

[longislander]

High school didn't teach you why we have committees?

Didn't have to to ... already knew ... even in grade school.
Didn't learn any more about why we have committees or better yet ... what do committees do, especially when appointed or elected officials.

Can't believe, no help in comprehension from my three degrees in Business including an MBA and thirty years in industry, (yes college degrees .. thanks to Veteran benefits). My paralegal certification hasn't help either. Well maybe, a few times I've been in court pro se and prevailed .

I remember now why I shouldn't comment on this forum. Keep up the info on the new retaurants and businesses, at least that's useful.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by longislander

... and those that get to go high school really excel!




Feb 4-10 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MEETING SCHEDULE

Where is it?

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...yschedule.aspx


The Bill on the Floor of the House or Senate
All bills may be acted upon the day after the committee report appears in the House Calendar. Any amendments proposed by the committee which make material changes in the original bill must be printed in the calendar.

Action on bills is taken on the second reading on the floor of the House or Senate. Debate, if any, is held and amendments are made at this time.

A bill is considered killed when the House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate," or when a motion from the floor to "Indefinitely postpone" is adopted.

https://www.nh.gov/almanac/bills.htm...20is%20adopted.



A bill is considered killed when the
House or Senate votes to adopt the committee report of "Inexpedient to legislate,"

https://www4.des.state.nh.us/blogs/r...omes-a-Law.pdf


So why have a committee if not to follow the recommendation? Really important stuff, huh!

High school didn't teach you why we have committees?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

Why do you suppose the wake boat people want it?

Because if your choices are 200 feet or 500 feet, 200 feet is the lessor of evils to them.

They know that it is coming, so lessening the impact is a reasonable strategy.