Non-OEM battery for lawnmower/

[SailinAway]

I want to buy an electric lawnmower. Can I get a non-OEM battery for a spare? OEM batteries seem pretty expensive.

[WinnisquamZ]

How much gas can one buy for the cost of a extra battery?


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[SteveO123]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

How much gas can one buy for the cost of a extra battery?


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…a lot less than a year ago!

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

How much gas can one buy for the cost of a extra battery?

About 50 gallons, or 1600 miles if you own a sensible vehicle. Almost to Newfoundland and back.

Or if you're referring to mowing, 50 gallons would last a very long time. Several years. My reasons for wanting to switch from a gas to electric mower: most importantly, shave about 20 lbs off the weight of the mower, and also no more oil changes, changing spark plugs and filters, trying to start a cranky motor; no more gas spilling in the driveway or storing gas in the garage, and yes, the cost of gas. And of course, the environment.

[John Mercier]

I don't think that you can.
I know the manufacturers that we have you can't.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

About 50 gallons, or 1600 miles if you own a sensible vehicle. Almost to Newfoundland and back.

Or if you're referring to mowing, 50 gallons would last a very long time. Several years. My reasons for wanting to switch from a gas to electric mower: most importantly, shave about 20 lbs off the weight of the mower, and also no more oil changes, changing spark plugs and filters, trying to start a cranky motor; no more gas spilling in the driveway or storing gas in the garage, and yes, the cost of gas. And of course, the environment.

Plus the electrics are virtually silent! I have a small electric outboard. It was pricey, but once you're free of gas hassles, you'll never want to go back

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

How much gas can one buy for the cost of a extra battery?


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Everything will be going electric. Once an electric drill was developed, the manual version went away quickly. I doubt most have ever seen the old manual drills.
Once the drill came, it made sense to make it a driver.
Once they became battery, it only makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint to expand the number of tools that can be supplied on your battery platform.

It was like seeing string trimmers move from curved to straight so they could become brush cutters, and then the evolution to the powerhead-attachment format that currently is taking over.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I want to buy an electric lawnmower. Can I get a non-OEM battery for a spare? OEM batteries seem pretty expensive.

If you can figure out who supplies the battery for the brand you're interested in, it would be a matter of cross referencing from there to see if there are alternatives available.

That said, if you do find a battery, there are brands that may require an adapter to go from the aftermarket battery to the unit, which might be the limiting factor if you're not interested in creating your own.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I want to buy an electric lawnmower. Can I get a non-OEM battery for a spare? OEM batteries seem pretty expensive.

For most devices you technically can, but 95% of the aftermarket proprietary battery market is absolute garbage. You'll pay 40% of the OEM battery price, and get 50% of the runtime, and more importantly 25% of the usable lifespan. Or, you might get lucky and get the one really good battery that slipped through QA and should have gone to the "excessive markup" pile. Total crap shoot.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

For most devices you technically can, but 95% of the aftermarket proprietary battery market is absolute garbage. You'll pay 40% of the OEM battery price, and get 50% of the runtime, and more importantly 25% of the usable lifespan. Or, you might get lucky and get the one really good battery that slipped through QA and should have gone to the "excessive markup" pile. Total crap shoot.

Agreed.

Stop being cheap, Sailin!

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[fatlazyless]

Down in this forum's marketplace, in Moultonborough, for just $35, there's a Husqvarna push reel, 3-blade lawn mower that uses NO gasoline and NO battery electricity, and it will actually do a cleaner and neater job for mowing your lawn especially when its' 3-blades are sharp.

Hey there SailnAway ...... you can attach a great big sail to this lawn mower ...... and mow the lawn using a sail!

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

For most devices you technically can, but 95% of the aftermarket proprietary battery market is absolute garbage. You'll pay 40% of the OEM battery price, and get 50% of the runtime, and more importantly 25% of the usable lifespan. Or, you might get lucky and get the one really good battery that slipped through QA and should have gone to the "excessive markup" pile. Total crap shoot.

Have purchased aftermarket batteries for tools. Total junk.

[fatlazyless]

Go to Ebay and do a search for "antique scythe" for a real, working, very doable, old scythe blade and long handle ..... the original grass mower from the old days .... long ago.

Or better yet, go to the two different antique stores on Main St in Meredith .... 'Waukewan Antiques' and 'Once New Vintage' ..... both, close to Meredith Town Hall, and there is a very good chance for YOU to find a genuine olde scythe in these there them two different stores, which comes completely equipped, ready to use, attached and hooked up with a "human" battery! ..... and go SCYTHE that grass away ......

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Down in this forum's marketplace, in Moultonborough, for just $35, there's a Husqvarna push reel, 3-blade lawn mower that uses NO gasoline and NO battery electricity, and it will actually do a cleaner and neater job for mowing your lawn especially when its' 3-blades are sharp.

Hey there SailnAway ...... you can attach a great big sail to this lawn mower ...... and mow the lawn using a sail!

Well FLL, I agreed with you at one time when I was a bleeding-heart tree hugger, so I went out and got a top-of-the line reel mower. Result: it couldn't handle my one acre of lawn and by the end of the season the lawn was ruined. Matter of fact, that was the year the thatch started looking real bad, because the reel mower just sort of flattened anything over a couple of inches high. I'm still a bleeding-heart tree hugger and now want to repent from years of adding gasoline mower fumes to the atmosphere.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Well FLL, I agreed with you at one time when I was a bleeding-heart tree hugger, so I went out and got a top-of-the line reel mower. Result: it couldn't handle my one acre of lawn and by the end of the season the lawn was ruined. Matter of fact, that was the year the thatch started looking real bad, because the reel mower just sort of flattened anything over a couple of inches high. I'm still a bleeding-heart tree hugger and now want to repent from years of adding gasoline mower fumes to the atmosphere.

Well ...... you know what they say ...... that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ...... which is 'zactly why somebody should build a King Kong style, Farm Island fence to divide the eight and twelve acres of forested 20-acre island land, out on Farm Island as a way to help ease the hostility between neighbors.

Anyway ...... I am getting a wee bit off-topic here ...... so, getting back to mowing a lawn with a rotary cutter blade, lawn mower. Looking at a golf course green or a grass tennis court, the grass is VERY short, very low, like maybe just 1/4" low. So, probably the reel style lawn mowers are intended for high maintenance, closely cut grass like a tennis court or a golf green and not too practical for most all residential lawns.

[SailinAway]

Can anyone comment on the reliability of your battery push lawnmower?

I'm looking at the EGO Power+ LM2101
https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2...ct_top?ie=UTF8

Reviews are overwhelmingly positive, but those who have problems report that EGO customer service is terrible. Same for other brands.

Sample review re EGO batteries: "The issue is the batteries. I have 3(2.5 amps) and 1, now 2 (7.5 amps). The first 7.5a lasted right up until the warranty ran out. One of the 2.5a gave out, not long after. Costing about $350 and $150 for each one, that is $500 in replacement cost in 3.5 years." That's not a cost effective machine.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can anyone comment on the reliability of your battery push lawnmower?

I'm looking at the EGO Power+ LM2101
https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2...ct_top?ie=UTF8

Reviews are overwhelmingly positive, but those who have problems report that EGO customer service is terrible. Same for other brands.

Sample review re EGO batteries: "The issue is the batteries. I have 3(2.5 amps) and 1, now 2 (7.5 amps). The first 7.5a lasted right up until the warranty ran out. One of the 2.5a gave out, not long after. Costing about $350 and $150 for each one, that is $500 in replacement cost in 3.5 years." That's not a cost effective machine.

Guy across the street from me has one, and it's pretty cool...if you like taking forever to mow a lawn.

For real, though—were I buying and electric garden tool, I'd be looking very closely at the 60V Greenworks. I've got a weed whacker from them that's pretty impressive, so I'd be likely to keep to one battery system.

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Were I buying and electric garden tool, I'd be looking very closely at the 60V Greenworks. I've got a weed whacker from them that's pretty impressive, so I'd be likely to keep to one battery system.

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I'll take a look at Greenworks. At first glance they appear more expensive than EGO for less battery power. I originally wanted a Greenworks corded lawnmower for $200, excellent reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

But I think the cord would make me crazy. The cord both creates and solves problems.

If the EGO battery dies in 3 years, I wonder if they will have improved battery life by then and possibly lowered the price. The OEM battery is $250. Inferior replacements are about $160.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well ...... you know what they say ...... that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ...... which is 'zactly why somebody should build a King Kong style, Farm Island fence to divide the eight and twelve acres of forested 20-acre island land, out on Farm Island as a way to help ease the hostility between neighbors.

Anyway ...... I am getting a wee bit off-topic here ...... so, getting back to mowing a lawn with a rotary cutter blade, lawn mower. Looking at a golf course green or a grass tennis court, the grass is VERY short, very low, like maybe just 1/4" low. So, probably the reel style lawn mowers are intended for high maintenance, closely cut grass like a tennis court or a golf green and not too practical for most all residential lawns.

No. Reel mowers are adjustable.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

No. Reel mowers are adjustable.

I think FLL was referring to the overall quality of the vegetation and terrain, not the height of the cut. I think a reel mower could work on a small, flat lawn that gets mowed regularly---although when I was growing up we used a reel mower on our two-acre yard and apparently that was OK since it was all we had in those days.

[SailinAway]

Can someone please explain the meaning of volts and amps and how they relate to each other? As in, for example, an 80 volt 2 amp battery versus 40 volts 5 amps. Do those terms refer to the power delivered to the arbor or the time capacity of the battery, or both?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I think FLL was referring to the overall quality of the vegetation and terrain, not the height of the cut. I think a reel mower could work on a small, flat lawn that gets mowed regularly---although when I was growing up we used a reel mower on our two-acre yard and apparently that was OK since it was all we had in those days.

I don't think the general public realizes the amount of water and liquid fertilizer that is applied to a golf green... but the reel mower is about the lower impact of the weight on the low cut turfgrass.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can someone please explain the meaning of volts and amps and how they relate to each other? As in, for example, an 80 volt 2 amp battery versus 40 volts 5 amps. Do those terms refer to the power delivered to the arbor or the time capacity of the battery, or both?

Voltage is dependent on the appliance needs.
For instance, the DeWalt Flex system allows for the battery to change voltage (lowering or raising the flow of current)... the more ampere/hours that the battery has the longer it will last at each voltage level.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can someone please explain the meaning of volts and amps and how they relate to each other? As in, for example, an 80 volt 2 amp battery versus 40 volts 5 amps. Do those terms refer to the power delivered to the arbor or the time capacity of the battery, or both?

I think you are technically referring to Ah - Amp-hours, not amps.

Without getting super deep into an EE-level discussion, you can think of volts like strength. More volts will generally equate to more power or ability to do something. All other things being equal, an 18v drill will be able to drill a larger hole than a 12V drill.

Amp-hours is a measure of how long the battery can supply that force for (again, simplifying things here). You might prefer to have a battery/drill than can drill 100 1" holes, instead of a drill that can drill a 4" hole, but only 2 of them before the battery dies.

Ah, or Amp-hours, is a rating of how long a battery can maintain its rated voltage or a given amount of power draw. A 5Ah battery can (theoretically) supply 5 Amps for 1 hour, or 1 amp for 5 hours, or 2.5 amps for 2 hours, etc.

In terms of electricity, Watts is the absolute measure of power, and watts is Volts * Amps. A 12V battery with a 5Ah battery can do more total work than a 24V 1Ah battery, but the peak "work" it would be able to do would be lower, limited by the voltage.

Ah ratings can be a little deceptive, as they ignore battery chemistry. Some batteries can be damaged by an excessive discharge, while others can be drawn down to a lower voltage without damage. So in some cases the Ah rating might be what you can actually expect from the battery, and in other cases it represents a number that would damage the battery if you were to actually try to use all that charge/capacity. The Ah rating is also often at an ideal draw, not maximum output. Kind of like MPG ratings on a car, you get optimum mileage within a narrow band of speed, not if you floor it all the time.

For a given manufacturer or brand of battery, higher Ah ratings will equal longer run times or usage between recharges. But across different brands two batteries both rated as 12V / 3Ah might have very different performance curves in real life.

[magicrobotmonkey]

I'm on my 4th or 5th year with an EGO mower, still on the original battery, still lasts long enough to do my .25 acre... Even lent it to my neighbor to use in his snowblower a few times when his ran out!

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by magicrobotmonkey

I'm on my 4th or 5th year with an EGO mower, still on the original battery, still lasts long enough to do my .25 acre... Even lent it to my neighbor to use in his snowblower a few times when his ran out!

Thank you for that feedback. I have one acre of lawn but I'm happy with a battery that lasts 45 to 60 minutes, like the EGO, because I don't care to mow longer than that anyhow. Plus, a gas mower runs out of gas after about an hour.

[SailinAway]

After doing a lot of research and reading and watching a ton of reviews, it seems to me that at this point in time batteries and electric lawnmowers are not at the point where they are a reliable product and good investment. Reasons:

1. Short run time
2. Short lifespan of battery
3. High cost to replace battery
4. Poor cutting: uneven, poor suction, bogs down in taller grass and weeds
5. Difficulty contact the manufacturer
6. Difficulty getting the manufacturer to honor the warranty

These problems seem typical of a product that hasn't been on the market long enough nor had enough R&D to be reliable. In contrast, I've had my Craftsman gas mower with Briggs and Stratton motor for somewhere between 15 and 20 years. My previous mower had a terrible B&S motor and Sears in Concord replaced it free of charge one year past the warranty because it was a known faulty motor. They didn't even make me file a warranty claim; they just gave me a new mower. The replacement mower has not had a single problem in more than 15 years. I pretty much abuse it. I've only changed the oil about 3 times. Last spark plug replacement was 3 years ago. Air filter ever 3 years. Today it started on the first pull! Granted, I dislike it for all the usual reasons: weight, not self-propelled, storing gas, spilling gas, dealing with plugs and filter, harm to the environment, etc. But it mows through tall, thick vegetation and has been completely reliable all these years and has lost no performance. I've had a similar experience with my gas Husqvarna string trimmer that I've had for 7 years---always starts on the 3rd pull as expected.

The reviews basically say, "A battery-powered lawnmower is pretty good when it works, but you have no idea if it's going to stop working one month or three years from now---they're unpredictable---and when it does stop working, it's going to be a nightmare trying to get it fixed or replaced."

If you think I'm being too harsh and I should give an electric mower a try, please explain. I really want to like these mowers. I just think they're a few years away from being cost effective and reliable.

[John Mercier]

Bad choice of manufacturer.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

After doing a lot of research and reading and watching a ton of reviews, it seems to me that at this point in time batteries and electric lawnmowers are not at the point where they are a reliable product and good investment. Reasons:

1. Short run time
2. Short lifespan of battery
3. High cost to replace battery
4. Poor cutting: uneven, poor suction, bogs down in taller grass and weeds
5. Difficulty contact the manufacturer
6. Difficulty getting the manufacturer to honor the warranty

These problems seem typical of a product that hasn't been on the market long enough nor had enough R&D to be reliable. In contrast, I've had my Craftsman gas mower with Briggs and Stratton motor for somewhere between 15 and 20 years. My previous mower had a terrible B&S motor and Sears in Concord replaced it free of charge one year past the warranty because it was a known faulty motor. They didn't even make me file a warranty claim; they just gave me a new mower. The replacement mower has not had a single problem in more than 15 years. I pretty much abuse it. I've only changed the oil about 3 times. Last spark plug replacement was 3 years ago. Air filter ever 3 years. Today it started on the first pull! Granted, I dislike it for all the usual reasons: weight, not self-propelled, storing gas, spilling gas, dealing with plugs and filter, harm to the environment, etc. But it mows through tall, thick vegetation and has been completely reliable all these years and has lost no performance. I've had a similar experience with my gas Husqvarna string trimmer that I've had for 7 years---always starts on the 3rd pull as expected.

The reviews basically say, "A battery-powered lawnmower is pretty good when it works, but you have no idea if it's going to stop working one month or three years from now---they're unpredictable---and when it does stop working, it's going to be a nightmare trying to get it fixed or replaced."

If you think I'm being too harsh and I should give an electric mower a try, please explain. I really want to like these mowers. I just think they're a few years away from being cost effective and reliable.

Agree. Own three dyson battery vacs. Going on four years on the original battery on one. The other two have required new batteries. One lasted less then a year. Must say the after market battery on both are better then the original


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[SailinAway]

I felt so motivated by my last post that I went out to mow some more. I hit the stub of a 4" tree and the motor stopped with a loud clang. Some smoke came out of the carburater. I checked the blade---intact. I restarted it and there was a clanging sound, seemed to be coming from the motor rather than the blade. Hmm . . . maybe time to try a battery mower.

[John Mercier]

Probably the same would happen with the batter, the shaft got jarred and there is damage higher up. Could be a collar, bearing, or worse.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Probably the same would happen with the batter, the shaft got jarred and there is damage higher up. Could be a collar, bearing, or worse.

John, I'm guessing that given the age of this mower, it's not worth getting it repaired. What do you think?

[John Mercier]

You could remove the blade and start the mower, if it doesn't clang... then a new blade should keep it going for a while.

Other than that... not worth the amount of parts and labor to replace either with a cheap gas mower or a decent battery if that is what you want.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You could remove the blade and start the mower, if it doesn't clang... then a new blade should keep it going for a while.

Other than that... not worth the amount of parts and labor to replace either with a cheap gas mower or a decent battery if that is what you want.

OK, that was interesting. It turns out that the blade is severely bent. I can just imagine what that force did to the motor. The motor wouldn't start without the blade. End of a 19-year relationship.

So, if I use 40 gallons of gas per year at $5 a gallon, that's $200 a year, or $1000 over 5 years, which is the expected lifespan of a battery mower. The mower + a new battery after year 3 would be about $700. Surprisingly, the battery mower may be cheaper at today's gas prices?

I'm leaning toward a non-self-propelled battery mower because they're lighter and simpler (fewer things to go wrong). I do have some hills (grades) on my property but the mower + battery weighs about 60 lbs, so maybe that's manageable. My gas mower was probably about 85 lbs. Any thoughts on non-self-propelled?

[thinkxingu]

40 gallons a year for a push mower?! I use, like, 15 for a lawn tractor mowing 2/3 acre AND towing things like my trailer, wood splitter, etc.

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[DickR]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

OK, that was interesting. It turns out that the blade is severely bent. I can just imagine what that force did to the motor. The motor wouldn't start without the blade. End of a 19-year relationship....

If you are trashing the mower, can I have it? I have been looking for either a working used push/walk behind mower or at least a frame I can put under my working 5 HP engine. What size is the mower?

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

40 gallons a year for a push mower?! I use, like, 15 for a lawn tractor mowing 2/3 acre AND towing things like my trailer, wood splitter, etc.

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Woops, I think you're right. Let me recalculate that. Tank holds 1.6 qts. I use about 2 tanks a week = 3.2 qts x 4 = 12.8 qts/month x 5 months = 64 qts = 16 gallons x $5/gal =$80 a year x 5 years = $400 for gas. If I were to buy a new mower for $350 + $400 for gas = $750 for 5 years.

Versus $400 for an electric mower + 1 new battery at $250 = $650 for 5 years. At the end of 5 years both machines might be finished. So the cost is similar. The electric mower will have many advantages if it doesn't fail.

I was thinking that many new products are less reliable in the beginning. I guess we can't expect manufacturers to come up with a perfect product on the first try. Maybe we all need to play our part by going to battery-operated yard machines now despite their drawbacks.

[thinkxingu]

$5 is the absolute highest fuel has cost in the last twenty years—the average is, what, $3? Significant difference, though it's certainly not clear what the five-year average will be at this point.

Also, I'd be interested to know what it costs to charge those batteries. A friend of mine was looking at the Wrangler 4xe because he could drive to work and back on battery power, but people are saying it's costing ~$3.50 to charge the battery for ~25 miles whereas a gallon of gas at $5 would get just a tad fewer. So, at ~$1.50 for 25 miles, how long would it take to make up the $10k price difference? Something like 30 years!

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

$5 is the absolute highest fuel has cost in the last twenty years—the average is, what, $3? Significant difference, though it's certainly not clear what the five-year average will be at this point.

I sure wish the average cost of gas over the last 20 years were relevant, but I fear it's not. Too many things have changed to think that we will go back to cheap gas. Putin's stranglehold on the world has us trapped because we were too slow to develop alternative energy sources. I think there will be a painful and expensive transition to other sources of energy that will affect everyone.

[John Mercier]

If you already have a battery platform that you are using... it is best to check out mowers that use that platform.

If you do not already have a battery platform that you are using... an important approach to choosing is where do you get your warranty serviced.

Is it something you return to the store and they send out/replace?
Or is it something that you have to search around or expend money to get shipped so you can get the warranty work completed?

The same thing should be looked at for a gas mower... where do I get parts/service?

Your current mower has a governor that keeps the motor from over revving and damaging itself... but should have started without the weight of the blade. It would have just idled way down.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

If you already have a battery platform that you are using... it is best to check out mowers that use that platform.

If you do not already have a battery platform that you are using... an important approach to choosing is where do you get your warranty serviced.

Is it something you return to the store and they send out/replace?
Or is it something that you have to search around or expend money to get shipped so you can get the warranty work completed?

The same thing should be looked at for a gas mower... where do I get parts/service?

Your current mower has a governor that keeps the motor from over revving and damaging itself... but should have started without the weight of the blade. It would have just idled way down.

I don't already have a platform. Lowes is an authorized EGO service center. You take the mower to them and they send it out for repair. I also considered that EGO has a single-stage snowblower with good reviews, which might solve my snowblower problem. As you allude, it would be very expensive to buy a snowblower plus battery and charger from a different company. A battery leaf blower from EGO would also be good.

I compared EGO to Ryobi and concluded that EGO mowers are better. Also decided to go with non-self-propelled for simplicity and lighter weight.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I don't already have a platform. Lowes is an authorized EGO service center. You take the mower to them and they send it out for repair. I also considered that EGO has a single-stage snowblower with good reviews, which might solve my snowblower problem. As you allude, it would be very expensive to buy a snowblower plus battery and charger from a different company. A battery leaf blower from EGO would also be good.

I compared EGO to Ryobi and concluded that EGO mowers are better. Also decided to go with non-self-propelled for simplicity and lighter weight.

If you feel like getting nerdy, rent a power monitor from your library and calculate how much each charge costs vs. fuel.

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[John Mercier]

Authorized Service Center or Authorized Dealer?

This is from EGO and seem contradictory... https://egopowerplus.com/warranty-po...rranty%20terms.


I know HD is a Ryobi Authorized Dealer, but also has the same requirement that Ryobi be contacted rather than just returning to HD.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

$5 is the absolute highest fuel has cost in the last twenty years—the average is, what, $3? Significant difference, though it's certainly not clear what the five-year average will be at this point.

Also, I'd be interested to know what it costs to charge those batteries. A friend of mine was looking at the Wrangler 4xe because he could drive to work and back on battery power, but people are saying it's costing ~$3.50 to charge the battery for ~25 miles whereas a gallon of gas at $5 would get just a tad fewer. So, at ~$1.50 for 25 miles, how long would it take to make up the $10k price difference? Something like 30 years!

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I've done the math many times (although not in the last few months) on EV charging vs gasoline. On an apples to apples basis, EV charging is well under half, often only a third, of the price of gas on a per mile basis. Plus no oil changes and dramatically less other maintenance.

Sailin--I'd say if you're close on the battery vs gas expense, then overall the electric mower is cheaper (and also better for the other reasons you've cited). My son has had very good luck with DeWalt battery systems on smaller motors, but he does not have a mower and I think that may be higher priced. Good luck!

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Authorized Service Center or Authorized Dealer?

This is from EGO and seem contradictory... https://egopowerplus.com/warranty-po...rranty%20terms.


I know HD is a Ryobi Authorized Dealer, but also has the same requirement that Ryobi be contacted rather than just returning to HD.

Correct, to use the warranty you first have to get permission from EGO. Then you take the machine to Lowes and they handle the repair.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've done the math many times (although not in the last few months) on EV charging vs gasoline. On an apples to apples basis, EV charging is well under half, often only a third, of the price of gas on a per mile basis. Plus no oil changes and dramatically less other maintenance.

Sailin--I'd say if you're close on the battery vs gas expense, then overall the electric mower is cheaper (and also better for the other reasons you've cited). My son has had very good luck with DeWalt battery systems on smaller motors, but he does not have a mower and I think that may be higher priced. Good luck!

Very helpful information, thank you very much, Flying Scot. I got up at the crack o' dawn today and got the EGO LM2101 for $399. Online it shows out of stock but as of 8 a.m. there was one more left.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130696

Also, the self-propelled version is on sale at Lowes, though not in stock in Tilton:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130698

You have to check the blade type carefully as there are many complaints that certain blades and also the double-bladed mower have poor suction. That means the clippings don't make it into the bag, but also the cut is uneven because the blade doesn't lift up the grass.

Final reason for getting decent yard tools: if you're doing the work yourself rather than hiring someone, you can put the savings into your equipment.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Very helpful information, thank you very much, Flying Scot. I got up at the crack o' dawn today and got the EGO LM2101 for $399. Online it shows out of stock but as of 8 a.m. there was one more left.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130696

Also, the self-propelled version is on sale at Lowes, though not in stock in Tilton:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130698

You have to check the blade type carefully as there are many complaints that certain blades and also the double-bladed mower have poor suction. That means the clippings don't make it into the bag, but also the cut is uneven because the blade doesn't lift up the grass.

Final reason for getting decent yard tools: if you're doing the work yourself rather than hiring someone, you can put the savings into your equipment.

Very excited to hear your review!

[John Mercier]

DeWalt generally gets a price advantage due to an advanced battery platform; and being American made.
They just had an upgrade to their chainsaws...
and I am expecting they will announce a two-stage snowblower to compete with the Ryobi.

We have their local representative on-site Wednesday for our Customer BBQ Event, but I don't know what specials he will have on tools.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

DeWalt generally gets a price advantage due to an advanced battery platform; and being American made.

"DeWalt is a global manufacturer of power tools, hand tools, and accessories. They manufacture their tools in the following countries: United States, Mexico, Brazil, China, Italy, United Kingdom, and the Czech Republic."

The DeWalt website states that select products are made in USA with global materials. LINK
What ever that means.

DeWalt is a Black & Decker company.

[John Mercier]

I sell them, so I know they are Black & Decker.
The battery tools sold by us are US made... they carry the label.
Parts of the tools are manufactured around the world... which isn't unusual for modern American manufacturing.

The hand tools, and certain battery accessories are made in China or Mexico depending on what they are.
And generally labelled as such.

The European versions are not sold in the US, as per they must be labelled as 18v and not the 20v we have here do to specifications of design.

It is like watching a customer pick up a box of stainless steel nails. The label states China - because the label is made in China; the box states Mexico - because the box is made in Mexico; and the actual nails are made in Canada.

As long as something has the required percentage of made in the US, they can be labelled as such... else we tend to see ''Assembled in the US''.

Contractors tend to investigate where a tool is made... and like that the platform being used is more flexible for their usage. They talk with the representatives about new improvements coming down the line, and why those changes are being made.

EGO doesn't work for the pros because it doesn't have a basic drill/driver, circular saw, or sawzall... in fact, it doesn't have any of those tools.

For my Ryobi, I have to use two different battery systems because the 18v is not interchangeable with the 40v.
For the Milwaukee, the mower is like $1000...
For the Makita, they use a multiple 18v package... which many have noticed, but now the announcement of the new 40v is beginning to create questions.

So the DeWalt FLEX currently has the advantage.
The platform is more flexible and you don't have to call an overseas answering center to get permission to have the dealer ship them to the service center.

I don't hate my Ryobi... but I chose that platform a very long time ago when the batteries were NiCad. First to market with a two stage snowthrower is just a bonus for us. But in all honesty, something like the FLEX instead of the 18v/40v dual platform would be my choice if making that decision today - provided that DeWalt announces a new snowthrower.

[SAB1]

For my Ryobi, I have to use two different battery systems because the 18v is not interchangeable with the 40v.
For the Milwaukee, the mower is like $1000...
For the Makita, they use a multiple 18v package... which many have noticed, but now the announcement of the new 40v is beginning to create questions.


This coupled with the rediiculous cost of of replacing batteries is why every time I pull the cord on my gas lawn mower and it starts I smile. Never lets me down. Never worry about a battery crapping out half way thru the job never have to charge it when the job is done. Just fill it with gas and boom she runs and runs hard. Yup. Grumpy old man but if ain’t broke I ain’t fixin it.

[John Mercier]

You should never get rid of something that works...
But with the clover, I really have very little real use for a mower... so once the cheap gasoline one went to the point of non-repair... the Ryobi was the next logical option.
I already had the battery/charger for the 40v because of the powerhear attachment system... so made sense to just keep going.

I was under the impression that is why the Makita went with the LTX for so long; and then the rumors of the GTX came out.

They seemed to be following the original Ryobi 18v One+ concept.
I think they may be looking to the GTX for a two stage snowblower.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SAB1

This coupled with the rediiculous cost of of replacing batteries is why every time I pull the cord on my gas lawn mower and it starts I smile. Never lets me down. Never worry about a battery crapping out half way thru the job never have to charge it when the job is done. Just fill it with gas and boom she runs and runs hard. Yup. Grumpy old man but if ain’t broke I ain’t fixin it.

Yup. My Echo and Ryobi blowers, Craftsman tractor, Stihl chainsaw, Craftsman snowblower, and Troy-Bilt splitter are/were all from 10-15 years-old and all without a hiccup. The only ICE machine I've ever had that didn't last as long as I'd hoped was a Weed Eater that I got five years out of before it got tricky to start. I accepted that when I bought it for $65 at Walmart, though, so it was easy to toss (and still wayyyy cheaper than an electric).

That being said, I do like my Greenworks 60V whacker and if they weren't more expensive might consider more.

Example: the Greenworks blower is $220 while the Echo blower AND vac is $230. With a 5-year-warranty on the echo, and being as efficient as it is, it's a no-brainer.

For me, electric garden tools just aren't there yet.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[SAB1]

I agree with you they just aren’t there yet especially for the average homeowner. I do recognize that for guys in the trades they are appealing as they have convenience factor and save some time.

[SailinAway]

https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2.../dp/B08GPZ1XLJ

Honestly I was stunned when I started it up and began mowing. It's much quieter than a vacuum cleaner. You could listen to the radio while mowing. Pushes very easily with a weight of 55 lbs plus battery weight (5 lbs?). The blade seems super sharp. The quality of the cut seems fine. Recharged in 30 minutes. Not sure how long the battery runs because it arrived with a partial charge as expected so I only got to mow for 15 minutes. I'll test that today. It was so much fun mowing that I switched on the headlights and continued mowing after dark. The headlights are quite bright.

So far I'm glad I didn't get the self-propelled version. At 25 lbs less than a gas mower, pushing it uphill seemed OK. Mowing along the side of a hill wasn't difficult due to the light weight.

I'm impressed with the simplicity of this mower. You literally just drop the battery in and go. Height adjustment is very easy. I'll update my impressions when I've had more experience. So far I'm very happy. Anything that improves one's attitude toward otherwise grueling yard work is a good thing. Glad my gas mower died!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2.../dp/B08GPZ1XLJ

Honestly I was stunned when I started it up and began mowing. It's much quieter than a vacuum cleaner. You could listen to the radio while mowing. Pushes very easily with a weight of 55 lbs plus battery weight (5 lbs?). The blade seems super sharp. The quality of the cut seems fine. Recharged in 30 minutes. Not sure how long the battery runs because it arrived with a partial charge as expected so I only got to mow for 15 minutes. I'll test that today. It was so much fun mowing that I switched on the headlights and continued mowing after dark. The headlights are quite bright.

So far I'm glad I didn't get the self-propelled version. At 25 lbs less than a gas mower, pushing it uphill seemed OK. Mowing along the side of a hill wasn't difficult due to the light weight.

I'm impressed with the simplicity of this mower. You literally just drop the battery in and go. Height adjustment is very easy. I'll update my impressions when I've had more experience. So far I'm very happy. Anything that improves one's attitude toward otherwise grueling yard work is a good thing. Glad my gas mower died!

Thanks, Sailin. The quiet and ease are the "details" that seem to fall through the cracks when we just compare prices and nothing else. Electric motors have a much more luxe feeling than even the best internal combustion engines. I would guess that there's also less vibration traveling up through the handle?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yup. My Echo and Ryobi blowers, Craftsman tractor, Stihl chainsaw, Craftsman snowblower, and Troy-Bilt splitter are/were all from 10-15 years-old and all without a hiccup. The only ICE machine I've ever had that didn't last as long as I'd hoped was a Weed Eater that I got five years out of before it got tricky to start. I accepted that when I bought it for $65 at Walmart, though, so it was easy to toss (and still wayyyy cheaper than an electric).

That being said, I do like my Greenworks 60V whacker and if they weren't more expensive might consider more.

Example: the Greenworks blower is $220 while the Echo blower AND vac is $230. With a 5-year-warranty on the echo, and being as efficient as it is, it's a no-brainer.

For me, electric garden tools just aren't there yet.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Thanks, Sailin. The quiet and ease are the "details" that seem to fall through the cracks when we just compare prices and nothing else. Electric motors have a much more luxe feeling than even the best internal combustion engines. I would guess that there's also less vibration traveling up through the handle?

I agree about the "luxe" feeling. It's the combination of no vibrations, extreme quiet, and the sharp blade. Very smooth operation. It's not an aggressive experience like trying to push a hot, noisy, heavy gas mower up a hill. Honestly it was fun. Also, there's no worrying that if you shut it off to move a branch it's not going to start again until it cools off.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

Bare tool comparison is fine as long as you've got a few batteries already—one or two isn't enough to do any real work—which means buying three whole kits or so. At that point, if we're looking at 40/60V vs. 18/20V, it's all I'd be buying anyway.

And, even if I compared, say, my blower and weed whackers only, I'm still way ahead at 15 and 10 years each vs. what the initial batteries would have last.

If someone could make a kit that *reasonably* worked on all tools—power and lawn—then I'm in a totally different mindset. But there's no way I'm trusting my level of snowblowing and lawn cutting to battery...yet.


Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I agree about the "luxe" feeling. It's the combination of no vibrations, extreme quiet, and the sharp blade. Very smooth operation. It's not an aggressive experience like trying to push a hot, noisy, heavy gas mower up a hill. Honestly it was fun. Also, there's no worrying that if you shut it off to move a branch it's not going to start again until it cools off.

Glad you're liking the new mower! Let us know what your final battery times look like after you get a good charge. And no cooking the numbers!

PS As I mentioned, my across-the-street neighbor has one, and (it appears) he can only do half the lawn at once. He's got about 3/4 acre, maybe a whole. Do these come with only one battery?

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

Isn't a main problem that in fact battery mowers don't last 10-15 years, whereas a good gas mower does last that long?

Also, I do expect to have to upgrade my battery if I buy a snowblower. What runs a drill isn't going to run a snowblower.

I certainly agree about adjusting the landscape!! My property is ridiculous. I actually have a map with 15 different sections that need to be maintained. And of course we need to rethink our landscaping practices for environmental reasons. I also notice that a neglected property will eventually turn into vegetation that grows faster and needs more maintenance. I find it difficult to think of allowing sections to revert to unmowed fields. There's this compulsion to think that an entire property needs to be mowed grass.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Bare tool comparison is fine as long as you've got a few batteries already—one or two isn't enough to do any real work—which means buying three whole kits or so. At that point, if we're looking at 40/60V vs. 18/20V, it's all I'd be buying anyway.

And, even if I compared, say, my blower and weed whackers only, I'm still way ahead at 15 and 10 years each vs. what the initial batteries would have last.

If someone could make a kit that *reasonably* worked on all tools—power and lawn—then I'm in a totally different mindset. But there's no way I'm trusting my level of snowblowing and lawn cutting to battery...yet.


Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

It only takes one of the 40v and two of the 18v/20v to run the mower. The kits with four are specials.

I still have some NiCAD that hold a charge. At a point, it will be that you do not have the option.

Most manufacturers do not look to NH to see what they should be working toward in the future. There was a time that I thought I could guarantee that chainsaws would never become battery; and it wasn't that long ago.

https://www.echo-usa.com/press-relea...nd-garden-care

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Isn't a main problem that in fact battery mowers don't last 10-15 years, whereas a good gas mower does last that long?

Also, I do expect to have to upgrade my battery if I buy a snowblower. What runs a drill isn't going to run a snowblower.

I certainly agree about adjusting the landscape!! My property is ridiculous. I actually have a map with 15 different sections that need to be maintained. And of course we need to rethink our landscaping practices for environmental reasons. I also notice that a neglected property will eventually turn into vegetation that grows faster and needs more maintenance. I find it difficult to think of allowing sections to revert to unmowed fields. There's this compulsion to think that an entire property needs to be mowed grass.

Equipment tends to last very long. I still have a blue and yellow Ryobi drill/driver, compound trim saw, flashlight, etc. - they all work.
The change from the NiCad to the Li-Ion meant that the old charger would not work with the newer batteries, but the newer charger could charge the older batteries.

Any part of the system can wear out and need replacement... but only the snowthrower worries me. That is an item that when it is needed... it is needed.
Electric brushless (newer tools) tend to have pretty long reliable lifespans... batteries can vary... and chargers we never seem to notice until it doesn't charge (but I have so many back ups that we just swap them out).

The biggest thing I noticed, when I went to clover... the amount of mowing dropped dramatically - so the bigger threat to the mower is rust out of the deck, varnish build up in the carb, or just old gas.

It was the problem I was having with the gas powered string trimmer... I just didn't use it enough after working out some of the landscaping issues.

I was using the gas powered because the corded was driving me insane with extension cords and the limits imposed by those.

For the snowblower... this last season, I only remember using it a couple times.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by DickR

If you are trashing the mower, can I have it? I have been looking for either a working used push/walk behind mower or at least a frame I can put under my working 5 HP engine. What size is the mower?

Dick, I'm so sorry, I actually didn't see this post until just now. I put the lawnmower at the end of my driveway at 10 pm on Friday. It was gone when I got up at 6:00 a.m. I would gladly have given it to you. It was a 21".

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It was the problem I was having with the gas powered string trimmer... I just didn't use it enough after working out some of the landscaping issues.

I noticed this also---once you've corrected a landscaping problem with, say, a high-wheeled mower trimmer, you won't need that machine again for awhile. However, when my lawnmower died on Friday I got out the 20-year-old Craftsman mower-trimmer that had not been used in 10 years, put in a bit of gas, and it started! Amazing that a spark plug could last that long in a humid garage.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I was using the gas powered because the corded was driving me insane with extension cords and the limits imposed by those.

Yes, I'm already tired of the corded dethatcher, now that I've experienced the satisfaction of a cordless machine.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

For the snowblower... this last season, I only remember using it a couple times.

Yes, but as you say, when you need it you need it.

[John Mercier]

Well, a brushless electric motor would most likely outlast anyone on this forum.
It is the other parts that we do not have a real history of.

I have a few years before the Ariens that I use gets to the point that rebuilding it costs more than it is worth... so I have some time to hear of any problems with the Ryobi snowthrower.

For the mower, the first battery powered was created in 1972.
But all the early versions were expensive robotic formats.

Black & Decker released the first battery lawn mower like we use in 2012.
They had created a solar powered one the year before... but felt the recharge rate was too slow.

The modern ones have the advantage of lower prices, longer battery life in a more compact version, brushless motors, etc.

So it isn't like these are new... just they have reached the point to be commercially viable.
Whether they sell a lot of riding lawn mowers will be rather interesting.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

However, when my lawnmower died on Friday I got out the 20-year-old Craftsman mower-trimmer that had not been used in 10 years, put in a bit of gas, and it started! Amazing that a spark plug could last that long in a humid garage.

Try doing that with a battery-operated machine...

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[John Mercier]

I do all the time.
Many of my Ryobi tools (blue and yellow) are at least that age.
Pop in a new 18v and away I go.

The new brushless... no one is even sure of how long the motors will last.
Estimates as high as 50,000 hours have been presented.

[thinkxingu]

"A new battery." That's the point. Li-Ion are much better, for sure, but a decade? Incredibly rare.

My Echo blower, though? 15 years and three pulls every time.

Egads—I'm starting to sound like FLL.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[John Mercier]

You think the gasoline is going to last a decade?

And your ECHO is going electric... so when it has to be replaced... it will probably be battery.

For me... with all the attachments to my string trimmer... it didn't make any sense to change to another brand and have to repurchase all that.

So it was another Ryobi... the options where the more expensive 4-cycle, or the on sale less expensive 40v.

The neighborhood is quieter and I think that makes my neighbors just a bit more happy.

[SailinAway]

I read an interview with a battery lawnmower manufacturer (I can't remember which one) who said their mower had been tested to last 450 hours. If you mow 2 hours a week for 20 weeks (May-September), that's 40 hours a year. So 450 hours would be 11 years.

Estimates of how long a battery-powered mower will last vary widely:

Bob Vila: 5 years
TotalGardener.com: 8-10
GardenToolExpert.com: 7-13
Insider.com: 10
TheLawnReview: 5-7

But there is agreement that the battery will last 3-5 years, although premature battery failures are widely reported in Amazon reviews.

[SailinAway]

I tried to pick up large quantities of loose debris in the bag after dethatching and found that this mower picked up 50%-70% of the thatch. A significant amount, but it will definitely not leave the lawn clean. However, it's a step ahead to only have to rake or blow 40%-50% of the debris after detatching. Maybe a second pass would pick up more.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I read an interview with a battery lawnmower manufacturer (I can't remember which one) who said their mower had been tested to last 450 hours. If you mow 2 hours a week for 20 weeks (May-September), that's 40 hours a year. So 450 hours would be 11 years.

Estimates of how long a battery-powered mower will last vary widely:

Bob Vila: 5 years
TotalGardener.com: 8-10
GardenToolExpert.com: 7-13
Insider.com: 10
TheLawnReview: 5-7

But there is agreement that the battery will last 3-5 years, although premature battery failures are widely reported in Amazon reviews.

Batteries and tools that are not taken care of will prematurely fail.
A lot of the above is with average lawns that have not been redesigned to reduce yard work.

It has taken billions in marketing to get homeowners to go to a four step fertilizer schedule... watering so intense that automatic sprinkler systems are desirable... and mowing up to four times a month.
Then reseeding when the plants reach their end of life.

Each tool has an expected number of hours in its lifespan... brushless no one is sure of. Each battery has an expected number of charge cycles in its lifespan... the number of years estimate is based on their estimate of the number of charge cycles a battery will receive over those years... and the warranty is placed toward the lower end of that to avoid a lot of warranty claims.

The change in tech is partially market driven... but many times its a change in requirements of a major market. The California Air Resource Board controls a lot of yard tools and even gas can designs.

It is like certain oil based deck stains... banned in NH from selling them in more than a quart... I can go to Vermont and buy them in the gallon and five gallon version.

In either case, now that you have the EGO platform... I suspect when the Craftsman goes, a new EGO string trimmer will be its replacement. It is just how these things work.

When we finally get the yards right-sized, I suspect the old rotary mowers will come back in style.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

In either case, now that you have the EGO platform... I suspect when the Craftsman goes, a new EGO string trimmer will be its replacement.

Actually I have a Husqvarna 223L that is very reliable but yes, it would be nice to replace it with an EGO some day. The snowblower will have to be the priority though.

[John Mercier]

But I think you have already determined that you want an EGO single stage.

I can't tell you what the price of gas will be over the next several years...
But the US has not built a new refinery since 1970; so it isn't a political problem - more of a capitalization one.
Before covid, we had roughly 19.2M b/d refining capacity, we now have roughly 18.1 due to the permanent shutdowns in 2019/2020.

And we have announced retirements of current ones...
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/91009317.cms

So I think the industry is in overdrive to get a universal platform...
I'm just not sure what that will look like.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

So I think the industry is in overdrive to get a universal platform...I'm just not sure what that will look like.

Interesting points, John. A universal platform would be wonderful. A challenge for the industries is that both the purchase price and cost to recharge battery-operated tools and cars need to be affordable for many millions of people. Otherwise there won't be a significant impact on the environment. New Hampshire, for example, has a real problem with its high electric rate.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Interesting points, John. A universal platform would be wonderful. A challenge for the industries is that both the purchase price and cost to recharge battery-operated tools and cars need to be affordable for many millions of people. Otherwise there won't be a significant impact on the environment. New Hampshire, for example, has a real problem with its high electric rate.

Agreed on costs, but I'd also add reliability/longevity of the batteries themselves. Many battery-operated devices don't get used enough to cycle batteries, so they end up deteriorating. Li-Ion are much better in this regard, but they still need to be used enough to keep them fresh.

The other issue is power needs. An impact driver needs much less power than a snowblower, and weight matters, so a large/heavy battery wouldn't work.

At this point, I've got two tool sets: 18/36V Metabo for my power tools at home and camp and 60V Greenworks for my weed whacker at home. If I came across a good deal for a Greenworks kit with whacker and blower, I might buy it for camp and start that process, but they're so darn expensive...and that Echo keeps blowin'!

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Many battery-operated devices don't get used enough to cycle batteries, so they end up deteriorating. Li-Ion are much better in this regard, but they still need to be used enough to keep them fresh

Can anyone provide specific advice on this with regard to a lawnmower? I'm wondering:

(1) Does using, for example, 50% of the battery and recharging repeatedly affect battery life? Is it best to use all of the charge at once and then recharge?

(2) How to store the battery over the winter.

(3) Anything else that needs to be considered for maximum longevity?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can anyone provide specific advice on this with regard to a lawnmower? I'm wondering:

(1) Does using, for example, 50% of the battery and recharging repeatedly affect battery life? Is it best to use all of the charge at once and then recharge?

(2) How to store the battery over the winter.

(3) Anything else that needs to be considered for maximum longevity?

1) As John pointed out above, the life is the number of cycles. But your convenience matters too. If you have only one battery and it takes 50% to do your lawn, I would charge after each mowing, so that you do not run out. But if you have two batteries, I'd let them run to 10-20% before recharging.

2) Cold saps the life of Li-ion, but they bounce back without degradation. I'd still keep them indoors and unplugged in the winter. More important--if you get an electric snowblower, make sure your batteries are indoor temperature before you start blowing.

3) Tesla suggests charging to a bit less than 100% to maximize battery life. But as noted above, convenience has value. I have not seen any significant degradation of my car battery after 5 years of treating it badly

[John Mercier]

The chargers should have built in safety factors that keep the battery from charging to 100% of its capacity - but chargers degrade over time.

Do not leave a fully charged battery on the charger.

The Li-Ion in a new state will not allow you to draw it down to zero charge.
The tool will operate steadily, then not seem to work.

This is different than the NiCad system where even a new charger would heat the battery by overcharging. And the battery would allow the user to draw it down nearly completely by forcing a tool to work at sub-optimum levels.

People always seem to forget that a charger will work but degrade over time.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

People always seem to forget that a charger will work but degrade over time.

I've never heard of this before. How do the chargers degrade over time?

[John Mercier]

The contacts and circuitry inside.
Generally the charger will simply not work... but some manufacturers have warned of fire hazards do to overcharging... or customers trying to bypass the safety features to awaken a battery from sleep mode.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The contacts and circuitry inside.
Generally the charger will simply not work... but some manufacturers have warned of fire hazards do to overcharging... or customers trying to bypass the safety features to awaken a battery from sleep mode.

I've never heard of one of these kinds of battery chargers degrading to anything other than a full failure mode. I have several, from multiple brands, that are 10+ years old with no degradation. In the overall scheme of rechargeable batteries I don't think charger degradation is really going to be something the average user encounters.


Bypassing safety features or altering the charger will of course cause all kinds of unpredictable issues.

[John Mercier]

Each company gives the warning on the box and in the operation instructions.
Since I am in the industry, I always present the warning.

I had a customer that used oil stain; I gave the warning of its possibility of self-combustion... he threw the rags on a ton of pellets with the plastic wrap on them... lost the garage, the RV, etc.

I felt bad, but all I could do is present the warning.
If you try to unlock sleep mode on a battery... or have a charger that is old... the safety mechanisms may not function.
Unclean contacts and loose wires (too many people pull at the cord) can also be issues... and are all covered in the owner's operation guides.

[brk-lnt]

Misuse/abuse, altering the unit, etc. Sure.
But what specifically degrades over time to a point that makes the unit be simultaneously operable and dangerous?


I'm genuinely curious. I've been involved in tech startups for 25+ years, ranging from large scale telco equipment to consumer electronics and battery-powered devices. I've never heard of power supplies with an expected degradation curve. All the times I've seen field failures of power supplies it has been related to voltage surges or unanticipated failures from faulty components. I do not recall ever issuing a warning in manuals or documents related to anticipated power supply failures that made the units unsafe to use. I would think that if we actually *expected* such a thing, and expected the user to read and heed such a warning that it would create a huge liability issue for the company.

[John Mercier]

The protection circuitry doesn't need to be abused to reach the end of its lifespan. Electrical circuit boards are damaged all the time... it is why so much is plugged into surge protectors.

Like I stated... ignore the warnings if you want.