Vaccinations

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...-lost-n1274119

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-lung-n1274102

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...nated-n1274161

[Mr. V]

It's time for a national mandate that ALL Americans get vaccinated.

"Live free and Die" should no longer be an option.

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...ealth-n1274288

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-says-n1274984

[TheTimeTraveler]

If folks haven't procured the Vaccine by now then they have no one to blame except themselves....

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

It's time for a national mandate that ALL Americans get vaccinated.
"Live free and Die" should no longer be an option.

The "vaccinated" can still infect others.

Today's "break-throughs" are milder in effects.

The "Delta" variant, though highly transmissible, is killing many fewer people.

Newly vaccinated people are reportedly dying of vaccinations' after-effects.

European researchers report the presence of graphene oxide in vaccinations, and have alerted their peers in the western hemisphere.

Pushing vaccinations on the least-affected age groups may ultimately prove harmful to them.

Six Yankees test positive, while one million of the world's "impoverished" will cross our borders this year. I may have used up my "Stupid" allotment.

Those unvaccinated--who contracted the Wuhan Flu--have the best immunity going.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ApS

The "vaccinated" can still infect others.

Today's "break-throughs" are milder in effects.

The "Delta" variant, though highly transmissible, is killing many fewer people.

Newly vaccinated people are reportedly dying of vaccinations' after-effects.

European researchers report the presence of graphene oxide in vaccinations, and have alerted their peers in the western hemisphere.

Pushing vaccinations on the least-affected age groups may ultimately prove harmful to them.

Those unvaccinated--who contracted the Wuhan Flu--have the best immunity going.

Why don't you ever post your "sources"? At this point, you're a tinfoil-hat-wearing-conspiracy-theorist who either can't research or purposefully manipulates information to support your narrative.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2OZ14F

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2P21DB

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

The "vaccinated" can still infect others.

Today's "break-throughs" are milder in effects.

The "Delta" variant, though highly transmissible, is killing many fewer people.

Newly vaccinated people are reportedly dying of vaccinations' after-effects.

European researchers report the presence of graphene oxide in vaccinations, and have alerted their peers in the western hemisphere.

Pushing vaccinations on the least-affected age groups may ultimately prove harmful to them.

Six Yankees test positive, while one million of the world's "impoverished" will cross our borders this year. I may have used up my "Stupid" allotment.

Those unvaccinated--who contracted the Wuhan Flu--have the best immunity going.

It's really bizarre, pitiful, and dangerous that you keep doing this. Everyone who has any understanding of health or statistics, and is not paranoid, understands that the vaccine will make them and their families much safer.

[John Mercier]

So let Aps et al get sick and maybe die... Darwinism works.

NH is a case study in Darwinism. Even those that survive to old age experience it when their savings run out.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

So let Aps et al get sick and maybe die... Darwinism works.

NH is a case study in Darwinism. Even those that survive to old age experience it when their savings run out.

I don’t want that for APS. Just wish better references and more critical thinking.

Totally off-topic and I guess you are using “Darwinism” figuratively; but there is new research on genetics suggesting it is not quite so “simple” as Darwin postulated.

[John Mercier]

It is figuratively.
Since most will pass on their genes to the next generation long before they die.

Most are going to find that business in the local area will begin to act once again in their own interests. Anything outside what is considered the ''norm'' will not only suffer disdain, but be restricted.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

you're a tinfoil-hat-wearing-conspiracy-theorist who either can't research or purposefully manipulates information to support your narrative.

HAHA, you are just figuring this out!!

[BrownstoneNorth]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Why don't you ever post your "sources"? At this point, you're a tinfoil-hat-wearing-conspiracy-theorist who either can't research or purposefully manipulates information to support your narrative.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

HAHA, you are just figuring this out!!

Must have been the third shot that fried his brain.

ApS:

July 22, 2021: “I got the Moderna back in January and Feb.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...140#post359140


June 25, 2021: “As to the inoculation, I had the Johnson & Johnson one-shot maybe a month ago: no difference in my daily life.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...629#post357629

[ApS]

There was no "third shot". That reference was a joke-thread of member TiltonBB—"To lighten the moment".

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's really bizarre, pitiful, and dangerous that you keep doing this. Everyone who has any understanding of health or statistics, and is not paranoid, understands that the vaccine will make them and their families much safer.

Those points will stand up to scrutiny outside of what Americans see on TV.

Name one that's "bizarre, pitiful, and dangerous", and we'll examine it for the forum.

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Why don't you ever post your "sources"? At this point, you're a tinfoil-hat-wearing-conspiracy-theorist who either can't research or purposefully manipulates information to support your narrative.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2OZ14F

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2P21DB

Hardly tinfoil: Most of my written sources originate in Britain. (One, via Skype, originated from a Spanish University professor to a Spanish-speaking Medical Doctor).

So, who to believe? Government's Facebook beliefs or a University professor's beliefs?

(Britain is about two weeks ahead of the US in Covid variants).

Remember this "sage advice"?

"Unfortunately, science today is too influenced by politics. The ideal of a scientist is an objective, ‘disinterested’ observer. If one holds strong emotional positions on a topic, then it is all too easy to have conclusions, and even observations, colored by those viewpoints".

Are you not concerned that your own Reuters fact-check mentions that Reuters' findings placed at Facebook were "flagged for removal"?

Or that findings deemed "misinformation" are flagged from a government to a private business, (Facebook), for deletion?

Thinkx can give the above a fearful name...

[John Mercier]

Facebook is not a ''news'' site.
Many of the other things you are reading are not either.

They are covered under certain laws from being sued for information posted on their sites.

Since the vaccines where never claimed to be 100% effective, even against the original strain, everyone expected ''breakthroughs''.

We have five sales people test positive for the virus and needed quarantine. No one died, no one even really needed to be hospitalized (though one didn't look so good). But you know what we did learn from that round... it is really hard to do any business when a salesperson is out.

There were quotes and orders on individual computers that at first, they suspected that I could not get to. All my time instead of serving new customers was spent trying to work through their systems.

It isn't something that we will be going through again.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by BrownstoneNorth

Must have been the third shot that fried his brain.

ApS:

July 22, 2021: “I got the Moderna back in January and Feb.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...140#post359140


June 25, 2021: “As to the inoculation, I had the Johnson & Johnson one-shot maybe a month ago: no difference in my daily life.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...629#post357629

That's great!!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ApS

There was no "third shot". That reference was a joke-thread of member TiltonBB—"To lighten the moment".

Those points will stand up to scrutiny outside of what Americans see on TV.

Name one that's "bizarre, pitiful, and dangerous", and we'll examine it for the forum.

Hardly tinfoil: Most of my written sources originate in Britain. (One, via Skype, originated from a Spanish University professor to a Spanish-speaking Medical Doctor).

So, who to believe? Government's Facebook beliefs or a University professor's beliefs?

(Britain is about two weeks ahead of the US in Covid variants).

Remember this "sage advice"?

Are you not concerned that your own Reuters fact-check mentions that Reuters' findings placed at Facebook were "flagged for removal"?

Or that findings deemed "misinformation" are flagged from a government to a private business, (Facebook), for deletion?

Thinkx can give the above a fearful name...

What you refer to are posts that are flagged for misinformation and/or lack of context. The specific example in that piece revolves around numbers of deaths and how people have been posting incorrect numbers AND those with unclear causation.

"The screenshot only shows the headline and the text: “The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed an increased number of deaths reported after a COVID-19 vaccination. Between December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) received 12,313 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.”

The next paragraph in the article, which is not visible in the screenshots, shows an update that the CDC modified the number of 12,313 deaths to 6,079. The next paragraph shows a second update that says the CDC modified the number to 6,207.

However, the headline of the article has not been updated to show the correct number as of publishing. It also did not disclose in the headline that the number is sourced from VAERS reports, which do not provide definitive data on COVID-19 vaccine related fatalities.

In a July 21, 2021 page update, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it had received 6,207 reports of people who had died after receiving a COVID vaccine between Dec. 14, 2020 and July 19, 2021 (here ). But that came with clear caveats. On the same page, it says: “FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.”

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We have five sales people test positive for the virus and needed quarantine. No one died, no one even really needed to be hospitalized (though one didn't look so good). But you know what we did learn from that round... it is really hard to do any business when a salesperson is out.

Fortunately, we have 100% vaccinated at my company. We are hiring a significant number of new people this fall, and are going to require all to be vaxxed. It's a two-fold decision for us. First, we feel a responsibility to have a safe work environment. Second, it would be extraordinarily expensive if we had a breakout.

[WinnisquamZ]

The teachers unions are asking for masks to be worn by all his coming year, but refused to mandate all teachers be vaccinated before the school year begins. Can someone explain this stance?


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The teachers unions are asking for masks to be worn by all his coming year, but refused to mandate all teachers be vaccinated before the school year begins. Can someone explain this stance? Is it a local/NH thing?


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Can you share the article or more information on this? I know Charlie Baker, and MA DESE, are holding tight to no masks upon return, and I've not heard anything otherwise from AFT/MTA, etc.

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[Garcia]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The teachers unions are asking for masks to be worn by all his coming year, but refused to mandate all teachers be vaccinated before the school year begins. Can someone explain this stance?


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There is little logic - and yes, I work in a school. I would love to see schools require vaccinations for those eligible. I can get behind religious exemptions (and of course medical), but not philosophical ones.

Schools need to be fully open. If there is a medical reason to be remote, fine. If you don't have a medical reason and don't want to send your child to school, there are many homeschool options available.

[WinnisquamZ]

Yes, this is MA.


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[Garcia]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Can you share the article or more information on this? I know Charlie Baker, and MA DESE, are holding tight to no masks upon return, and I've not heard anything otherwise from AFT/MTA, etc.

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“The Massachusetts Teachers Association continues to fully support the safe return to in-person learning in our schools — and the guidance issued today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concerning indoor masking advances that goal. The CDC guidance, following a similar recommendation by the American Academy of Pediatrics, makes clear that the safest way to implement in-person learning and to keep students, educators and communities healthy and safe is to have all students and staff wear face masks regardless of vaccination status.”

MERRIE NAJIMY | PRESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS TEACHERS ASSOCIATION

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Garcia

“The Massachusetts Teachers Association continues to fully support the safe return to in-person learning in our schools — and the guidance issued today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concerning indoor masking advances that goal. The CDC guidance, following a similar recommendation by the American Academy of Pediatrics, makes clear that the safest way to implement in-person learning and to keep students, educators and communities healthy and safe is to have all students and staff wear face masks regardless of vaccination status.”

MERRIE NAJIMY | PRESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS TEACHERS ASSOCIATION

Thank you, was just about to cut and paste


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[FlyingScot]

Some unions are completely out to lunch on this, but some are on board. The NYC employees' unions are making a squawk about recently announced vax requirements. Unions in California have supported their Governor's push for vaccines. My sense is that unions are like other groups--some of their leaders just need time to understand the operational details, and some are narrow-minded idiots.

BTW...religious exemptions...for which religions? Seriously, and not to stigmatize, but are any of you aware of any religion that prohibits vaccination?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Some unions are completely out to lunch on this, but some are on board. The NYC employees' unions are making a squawk about recently announced vax requirements. Unions in California have supported their Governor's push for vaccines. My sense is that unions are like other groups--some of their leaders just need time to understand the operational details, and some are narrow-minded idiots.

BTW...religious exemptions...for which religions? Seriously, and not to stigmatize, but are any of you aware of any religion that prohibits vaccination?

Many Christian Scientists prefer not to get vaccines. They will if required by law. The church lets members decide for themselves.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Many Christian Scientists prefer not to get vaccines. They will if required by law. The church lets members decide for themselves.


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Understood--I checked this before I sent my last message. But since the church has been clear that vaccines are allowed, I do not understand how a Christian Scientist can say their religion prohibits vaccines. Wouldn't that be similar to a Catholic asserting they cannot eat meat on Friday, or a Jewish person asserting they are vegetarian?

Even if we call Christian Scientists a "maybe", it's a VERY short list of people that practice a faith that prohibits vaccines. I cannot think of one.

[WinnisquamZ]

https://wmur.com/article/new-hampshi...nties/37160182
After all this back and forth it does appear every other person in NH is vaccinated


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[John Mercier]

Not really.
The lakes region has some pockets of low vaccination rates.

Barnstead, Belmont, Franklin, Northfield, and Plymouth are all at less than 50%
Center Harbor, Holderness, and Wolfeboro are all in the 70%+ category.

That will also very among pockets/cliques within each town.

[TheTimeTraveler]

The vaccination rates appear to be higher among those that have a higher level of education. Not saying that education has anything to do with it but just look at how low the rates are in some of our lower income states, i.e. Louisiana, Alabama, etc.

Right now the Delta Variant is raising heck in many areas that have had a lower rate of vaccinations.

Lets' hope things will get back under control so that no one else needs to be hospitalized or lose their life.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

The vaccination rates appear to be higher among those that have a higher level of education. Not saying that education has anything to do with it but just look at how low the rates are in some of our lower income states, i.e. Louisiana, Alabama, etc.

Right now the Delta Variant is raising heck in many areas that have had a lower rate of vaccinations.

Lets' hope things will get back under control so that no one else needs to be hospitalized or lose their life.

I will also be politically correct and not say that education has anything to do with it....But even in very high vaccination states such as Mass, it is less educated people who are still not vaccinated.

[WinnisquamZ]

“Less educated” one could say open minded and willing to listen and think for themselves.
The USPS Union just put out a statement on mandatory vaccines
“No”


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

“Less educated” one could say open minded and willing to listen and think for themselves.
The USPS Union just put out a statement on mandatory vaccines
“No”


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"Think for themselves." The fundamental problem in America these days: people who think all opinions have value rather than accepting that some people's—experts—are worth more.

While talking to someone yesterday, he said he wasn't going to get the vaccine because "the scientists can't even get things right—they keep changing their advice."

I had to explain that that—updating one's understandings as a result of more data—is "science."

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

“Less educated” one could say open minded

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No, those are too different things. There are open and closed minded people at all levels of education.

Part of a good education is understanding how to absorb data, science, conflicting opinions, etc. I am not saying you or any other specific person lacks those skills. But I think it's pretty clear that many of the people who have not been vaccinated have struggled with all of the information presented in different ways.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Understood--I checked this before I sent my last message. But since the church has been clear that vaccines are allowed, I do not understand how a Christian Scientist can say their religion prohibits vaccines. Wouldn't that be similar to a Catholic asserting they cannot eat meat on Friday, or a Jewish person asserting they are vegetarian?

Even if we call Christian Scientists a "maybe", it's a VERY short list of people that practice a faith that prohibits vaccines. I cannot think of one.

But the government and employers don’t mandate what Catholics or Jews eat. Not really a good analogy. From what I’ve read, the Christian Science hierarchy would like to say no, but realize their members are a part of a larger society and therefore won’t enforce a no vaccine ordinance. That doesn’t mean a specific member can’t say they are strict adherents to the doctrine and so claim religious exemption.

I think you’re defining religion too tightly. There was a court case in 2012 in Ohio where a district court decided veganism, in some cases, constitutes a religious belief. Non-theistic moral codes can apply as well.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

But the government and employers don’t mandate what Catholics or Jews eat. Not really a good analogy. From what I’ve read, the Christian Science hierarchy would like to say no, but realize their members are a part of a larger society and therefore won’t enforce a no vaccine ordinance. That doesn’t mean a specific member can’t say they are strict adherents to the doctrine and so claim religious exemption.

I think you’re defining religion too tightly. There was a court case in 2012 in Ohio where a district court decided veganism, in some cases, constitutes a religious belief. Non-theistic moral codes can apply as well.


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Thanks, GG--you inspired me to look more closely. I see from the link below that as you say, my definition is too tight. An individual can hold unique views, unsupported by any organized church, that would be deemed religious, as long as they are "sincerely held" and on "ultimate" issues.

But the employee may need to sue to enforce, and then prove the two criteria. On veganism, it looks like a Seventh-day Adventist is easily covered, as is a person who has made up their own religion that includes veganism. But a person who simply says eating meat is cruel so it is against my religion, would have to prove the "ultimate" part. Similarly, someone who worships their own Sun God with a prominent tattoo is protected, but someone who insists on displaying their Springsteen tattoo because he is their "Rock and Roll God" would have to make a case that their thoughts and practices around life and death, etc actually did revolve around The Boss. (...Wait...I may be covered!...)

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/s...21610748647076

[Newbiesaukee]

It is ironic that the newest CDC mask guidance suggests that those vaccinated should go back to masking indoors under certain circumstances.

The rationale is that new evidence, which is still preliminary, suggests that vaccinated, asymptomatic individuals may still carry large amounts of the virus, presumably the delta variant, and transmit it more easily to the unvaccinated who then may develop Covid 19.

So, as a result of the delta variant, which still very rarely causes serious disease in the vaccinated, those who have been vaccinated are to wear masks to protect those who have chosen NOT to have been vaccinated which if they had been vaccinated could have prevented the undeniable increase in Covid cases.

It would be funny, if not so possibly tragic.

References are the CDC site and multiple news sources. For completeness, there are legitimate reasons why vaccination is not recommended or ineffective in some individuals. But this is not true for the vast majority of the unvaccinated for whose benefit the vaccinated may need to remask.

[thinkxingu]

Interesting statistics maps.

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[ApS]

My first point:

The vaccinated can still spread the virus.

Answer:

Top health officials Anthony S. Fauci and Rochelle Walensky said July 28 that vaccinated individuals should wear masks indoors, per new CDC guidance .

Source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...dance-indoors/

[John Mercier]

Since the vaccines have never claimed to be 100% effective, we know that the vaccinated can get the virus. And if they can get the virus, then they can spread the virus.

That isn't news.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Bottom Line? Covid is in fact still with us. No one knows if or when it will die out.

In 1920, the Spanish Flue just died out and forever disappeared. We should be so lucky that this will occur in 2021 or 2022 with the current Covid.

[John Mercier]

https://www.history.com/news/1918-fl...ic-never-ended

It simply mutated.

Covid could be with us forever, but only killing a fraction of the Americans each year that it has during its initial introduction.

[VitaBene]

crickets...

Originally Posted by BrownstoneNorth

Must have been the third shot that fried his brain.

ApS:

July 22, 2021: “I got the Moderna back in January and Feb.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...140#post359140


June 25, 2021: “As to the inoculation, I had the Johnson & Johnson one-shot maybe a month ago: no difference in my daily life.”

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...629#post357629

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Since the vaccines have never claimed to be 100% effective, we know that the vaccinated can get the virus. And if they can get the virus, then they can spread the virus.

That isn't news.

The news is that when a small percentage of vaccinated people catch it, new data suggests that they can shed viral elements at a similar volume to the unvaccinated with Covid. A few weeks ago, it was thought that vaccine immunity would reduce the spewed load to a non-contagious level. Now, not so much. Maybe the Delta variant made the difference, but the new recommendation is based on new data and analysis. That's how science works. Learn as you go.

So, as I see it, the request is for vaccinated people to take care not to infect the unvaccinated. People have many reasons not to vaccinate. Most are based on flawed logic but some are valid. In the lakes region, and NH in general, the rate of vaccinations is good and one would hope that those with reasons not to get the jab are taking extra precautions or accept the relatively low risk of hospitalization or dying. Until the businesses start requiring masks again, which is doubtful, that "look" is unlikely to come back into style in the short term. The vaccinated people care about spreading it to the unvaccinated, but not that much.

We aren't out of the woods yet and not even the scientists know what will happen this winter. Some scenarios are worse than others. Change is hard and since many aren't agile enough to bob and weave as the nature of the pandemic runs its course, even the protected have to stay vigilant.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

So, as I see it, the request is for vaccinated people to take care not to infect the unvaccinated. People have many reasons not to vaccinate. Most are based on flawed logic but some are valid. In the lakes region, and NH in general, the rate of vaccinations is good and one would hope that those with reasons not to get the jab are taking extra precautions or accept the relatively low risk of hospitalization or dying.

I think you're too kind. It is a VERY small number of people who have genuine religious or healthcare issues with the vaccines. On religion--Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims--all are good to go. Doesn't that leave us at less than 1%? On healthcare--I'm not sure I've seen even one case of a person for whom the vax would be unsafe; I know of only two individual cases where the vax is unlikely to be effective, both are people with exceedingly rare conditions. So I'm thinking well under 5% of the population has a valid reason for avoiding vaccination.

I've lost patience for those who refuse to protect themselves and others

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I think you're too kind. It is a VERY small number of people who have genuine religious or healthcare issues with the vaccines. On religion--Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims--all are good to go. Doesn't that leave us at less than 1%? On healthcare--I'm not sure I've seen even one case of a person for whom the vax would be unsafe; I know of only two individual cases where the vax is unlikely to be effective, both are people with exceedingly rare conditions. So I'm thinking well under 5% of the population has a valid reason for avoiding vaccination.

I've lost patience for those who refuse to protect themselves and others

I basically agree with both of you as my posts show. Although very rare, anyone with a serious allergic reaction to vaccines, might not be a good candidate. And just to be a snot…anyone with an anaphylactic reaction to a first shot, should not complete the series.

But, basically, there are millions of people who could (and should) get vaccinated and mitigate this mess and who choose not to.

[WinnisquamZ]

https://whdh.com/news/91-vaccinated-...-surpass-6000/


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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

https://whdh.com/news/91-vaccinated-...-surpass-6000/


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Wow...good news. According to your reference, there are approximately 4.2 million fully vaccinated in MA and a breakthough rate of .15%. That's fantastic.

And the Covid deaths in the fully vaccinated again support the efficacy of the vaccines.

Or is there something I have missed in your reference?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I basically agree with both of you as my posts show. Although very rare, anyone with a serious allergic reaction to vaccines, might not be a good candidate. And just to be a snot…anyone with an anaphylactic reaction to a first shot, should not complete the series.

But, basically, there are millions of people who could (and should) get vaccinated and mitigate this mess and who choose not to.

I have a friend with a severe nut allergy--as in, peanuts could kill her. After consulting with doctors, etc. they gave her the vaccine with extended supervision. That is not not say every person with allergies is OK. But it is to say that many with severe allergies can be vaccinated safely.

Each person with allergies should consult their doctor, then decide

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Wow...good news. According to your reference, there are approximately 4.2 million fully vaccinated in MA and a breakthough rate of .15%. That's fantastic.

And the Covid deaths in the fully vaccinated again support the efficacy of the vaccines.

Or is there something I have missed in your reference?

Your comment is a clear indication we are moving forward. Less then two years ago one death from this virus was too many. Now, as people are dying with and without the vaccine you talk % rates and breakthrough. Be safe


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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Your comment is a clear indication we are moving forward. Less then two years ago one death from this virus was too many. Now, as people are dying with and without the vaccine you talk % rates and breakthrough. Be safe


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Actually, one death from the virus IS still too many. That philosophy does not, in the least, suggest an unreality on anyone’s part.

[ApS]

My second point—also disputed:

"Today's 'break-throughs' are milder in effects".

Answer:

Post-vaccination infections, or breakthroughs, might occasionally turn symptomatic, but they aren’t shameful or aberrant. They also aren’t proof that the shots are failing. These cases are, on average, gentler and less symptomatic; faster-resolving, with less virus lingering—and, it appears, less likely to pass the pathogen on.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...t-to-know.html

[trfour]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nated-n1275210

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by trfour

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nated-n1275210

EXACTLY how I feel.

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[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

EXACTLY how I feel.

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Me as well. One of my biggest disappointments is that I still won’t be able to go in to the vet with my dog. He had a large, cancerous mass removed in April, and it was difficult having to confer with the vet from my car.


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[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...?ocid=msedgntp

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The news is that when a small percentage of vaccinated people catch it, new data suggests that they can shed viral elements at a similar volume to the unvaccinated with Covid. A few weeks ago, it was thought that vaccine immunity would reduce the spewed load to a non-contagious level. Now, not so much. Maybe the Delta variant made the difference, but the new recommendation is based on new data and analysis. That's how science works. Learn as you go.

So, as I see it, the request is for vaccinated people to take care not to infect the unvaccinated. People have many reasons not to vaccinate. Most are based on flawed logic but some are valid. In the lakes region, and NH in general, the rate of vaccinations is good and one would hope that those with reasons not to get the jab are taking extra precautions or accept the relatively low risk of hospitalization or dying. Until the businesses start requiring masks again, which is doubtful, that "look" is unlikely to come back into style in the short term. The vaccinated people care about spreading it to the unvaccinated, but not that much.

We aren't out of the woods yet and not even the scientists know what will happen this winter. Some scenarios are worse than others. Change is hard and since many aren't agile enough to bob and weave as the nature of the pandemic runs its course, even the protected have to stay vigilant.

The Lakes Region is actually low when taken into full consideration. It is one of the reasons that Belknap County is the only ''dark'' county on the map. As for the ''masking requirements'', business currently has much bigger issues.

So part of our policy changes will include reduction of contact between various parties.

[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/op...?ocid=msedgntp

[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ho...?ocid=msedgntp

[ApS]

Facts as we know them:

ME: CDC, should I get vaccinated if I already had Covid?

CDC: “Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19.”

ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does vaccine-induced immunity last?

ANSWER: “There is still a lot we are learning about COVID-19 vaccines and CDC is constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated.”

QUESTION: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the vaccine was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the vaccine immunity better than my natural immunity?

CDC: …

QUESTION: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?

CDC: Yes.

NEWYORKTIMES: “Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.”

ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than vaccine immunity?

CDC: Possibly. You never know.

ME: Okay. If I get the vaccine, does that mean I won’t get sick?

BRITAIN: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are vaccinated people.

ME: CDC, is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.S. catching Covid after getting the jab?

CDC: We stopped tracking breakthrough cases. We accept voluntary reports of breakthroughs but aren’t out there looking for them.

ME: Does that mean that if someone comes in the hospital with Covid, you don’t track them because they’ve been vaccinated? You only track the UN-vaccinated Covid cases?

CDC: That’s right.

ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the vaccine, how is it helping me?

CDC: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.

ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.

CDC: We don’t know “exactly.”

ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?

CDC: We don’t know, okay? Next question.

ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the vaccine, is there any reason I should get it?

CDC: Yes, for the collective.

ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting vaccinated?

CDC: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.

ME: Can a vaccinated person spread the virus to someone else?

CDC: Yes.

ME: So if I get vaccinated, I could still spread the virus to someone else?

CDC: Yes.

ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get vaccinated was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the vaccine?

CDC: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unvaccinated, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the vaccine’s protection, putting all vaccinated people at risk.

ME: So the vaccine stops the virus from mutating?

CDC: No.

ME: So it can still mutate in vaccinated people?

CDC: Yes.

ME: This seems confusing. If the vaccine doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting vaccinated help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the vaccine?

CDC: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unvaccinated, you pose a threat to vaccinated people.

ME: But what KIND of threat??

CDC: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.

ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the vaccine doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying vaccinated people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the vaccine just by running into an unvaccinated person! Which is it??

CDC: That’s it, we’re hanging up now.

ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get vaccinated, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts. And I should get the vaccine to keep a vaccinated person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the vaccine, I can give it to the vaccinated person anyways. And, the other vaccinated person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?

…

ME: Um, hello? Is anyone there?

[WinnisquamZ]

Well written, you deserve a second cup of coffee


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[Seaplane Pilot]

I have more faith in the US Postal Service than the CDC to provide better information about Corona. CDC are the epitome of incompetence. In addition, when the “Administration” stops letting thousands of sick and unvaccinated illegal aliens into this country, then maybe “vaccinate hesitancy” may decrease. Until then, the hypocrisy is front and center (but this should come as no surprise).

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I have more faith in the US Postal Service than the CDC to provide better information about Corona. CDC are the epitome of incompetence. In addition, when the “Administration” stops letting thousands of sick and unvaccinated illegal aliens into this country, then maybe “vaccinate hesitancy” may decrease. Until then, the hypocrisy is front and center (but this should come as no surprise).

There is a lot of political issues with this parroted faux narrative but from a lakes region point of view, it is unlikely that the flood of people sneaking across the Canadian border are sick and unvaccinated. For the majority that aren't, they can easily get vaccinated, documented or not, helping to protect themselves and the recalcitrant. The potential of undocumented immigrants with Covid isn't a high risk to the protected anyway, so what's the big deal?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There is a lot of political issues with this parroted faux narrative but from a lakes region point of view, it is unlikely that the flood of people sneaking across the Canadian border are sick and unvaccinated. For the majority that aren't, they can easily get vaccinated, documented or not, helping to protect themselves and the recalcitrant. The potential of undocumented immigrants with Covid isn't a high risk to the protected anyway, so what's the big deal?

Faux narrative? https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/gove...ve-order-ga-37

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I have more faith in the US Postal Service than the CDC to provide better information about Corona. CDC are the epitome of incompetence. In addition, when the “Administration” stops letting thousands of sick and unvaccinated illegal aliens into this country, then maybe “vaccinate hesitancy” may decrease. Until then, the hypocrisy is front and center (but this should come as no surprise).

You would think that more people would want to get vaccinated to protect themselves from all these unvaccinated illegal aliens you say are coming into the country?
Maybe if we named the vaccines "The Trump Vaccines" it would reduce "vaccinate hesitancy"?

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by BrownstoneNorth

ApS:

July 22, 2021: “I got the Moderna back in January and Feb.”

Pretty sure he only showed up at the National Guard site because he heard Madonna was going to be there.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

Facts as we know them:

More "Facts as we know them":

A person's expected health and life expectancy, and that of their loved ones, are much better if you get a shot.

ApS posts on the vaccine are full of misdirection, misinformation, and outright falsehoods

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

You would think that more people would want to get vaccinated to protect themselves from all these unvaccinated illegal aliens you say are coming into the country?
Maybe if we named the vaccines "The Trump Vaccines" it would reduce "vaccinate hesitancy"?

Makes no sense. They were the "Trump Vaccines" to begin with, so anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity to receive one when Trump was in office. I'm not the one saying that unvaccinated illegals are coming into the country. On the contrary, it's the State of Texas that's saying it as per the official letter that they sent to the Attorney General of the United States. My point is that, on the one hand, there is a major push on American citizens to get this vaccine, but there is little to no push on illegal aliens to get the vaccine. Just shining a light on the hypocrisy. If it were really such a problem, then one would think that masks, testing and vaccines would be mandatory for the thousands that are migrating across the southern border.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Makes no sense. They were the "Trump Vaccines" to begin with, so anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity to receive one when Trump was in office. I'm not the one saying that unvaccinated illegals are coming into the country. On the contrary, it's the State of Texas that's saying it as per the official letter that they sent to the Attorney General of the United States. My point is that, on the one hand, there is a major push on American citizens to get this vaccine, but there is little to no push on illegal aliens to get the vaccine. Just shining a light on the hypocrisy. If it were really such a problem, then one would think that masks, testing and vaccines would be mandatory for the thousands that are migrating across the southern border.

It's amazing the way you inject politics and completely ignore/change history.

The vaccines were not available to most adults until March or April of 2021. (Trump was gone by then--remember?)

Biden and Co have been doing everything they can to get them into anyone who will take one. This is in the face of a huge number of Republicans doing things which will slow acceptance (Open any news source you'd like.)

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's amazing the way you inject politics and completely ignore/change history.

The vaccines were not available to most adults until March or April of 2021. (Trump was gone by then--remember?)

Biden and Co have been doing everything they can to get them into anyone who will take one. This is in the face of a huge number of Republicans doing things which will slow acceptance (Open any news source you'd like.)

Who is injecting politics? That's an invalid accusation. And you make a good point when you say "....get them into anyone that will take one." Let's keep it that way, and knock it off with the trial balloons about mandatory vaccines for those that don't want it - no matter what the reason.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Makes no sense. They were the "Trump Vaccines" to begin with, so anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity to receive one when Trump was in office. I'm not the one saying that unvaccinated illegals are coming into the country. On the contrary, it's the State of Texas that's saying it as per the official letter that they sent to the Attorney General of the United States. My point is that, on the one hand, there is a major push on American citizens to get this vaccine, but there is little to no push on illegal aliens to get the vaccine. Just shining a light on the hypocrisy. If it were really such a problem, then one would think that masks, testing and vaccines would be mandatory for the thousands that are migrating across the southern border.

One has nothing to do with the other. That's just political posturing.
If all US citizens get vaccinated we don't have to worry about catching it from unvaccinated illegals.
There's a far greater number of unvaccinated Americans than illegals crossing the boarder. It's like "what comes first, the chicken or the egg"?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

One has nothing to do with the other. That's just political posturing.

Uh, ok....if you say so.....

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Who is injecting politics? That's an invalid accusation. And you make a good point when you say "....get them into anyone that will take one." Let's keep it that way, and knock it off with the trial balloons about mandatory vaccines for those that don't want it - no matter what the reason.

When you write, "Trump Vaccine"..."Texas"..."illegal aliens"--all with no real relevance to the issue at hand--and then criticize Biden policies, then you are injecting politics.

I'm surprised that you cannot see that. Maybe it's too much exposure to some very cynical politicians who seem to be making a brand out of vaccine resistance?

[trfour]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauc...ry?id=79192069

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

When you write, "Trump Vaccine"..."Texas"..."illegal aliens"--all with no real relevance to the issue at hand--and then criticize Biden policies, then you are injecting politics.

I'm surprised that you cannot see that. Maybe it's too much exposure to some very cynical politicians who seem to be making a brand out of vaccine resistance?

To be fair I mentioned "The Trump Vaccines" first in the hope that if we named them after him then maybe all his followers would get the vaccine.
I would give him ALL the credit if he would convince everyone that listens to him to get vaccinated.
I don't really care who gets credit as long as we put an end to this!

[TKD]

Originally Posted by Biggd

To be fair I mentioned "The Trump Vaccines" first in the hope that if we named them after him then maybe all his followers would get the vaccine.
I would give him ALL the credit if he would convince everyone that listens to him to get vaccinated.
I don't really care who gets credit as long as we put an end to this!

By end to this, I hope you mean this impossibly long thread


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[Newbiesaukee]

As I understand it, no one is compelled to read this “impossibly long thread.”

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Makes no sense. They were the "Trump Vaccines" to begin with, so anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity to receive one when Trump was in office. I'm not the one saying that unvaccinated illegals are coming into the country. On the contrary, it's the State of Texas that's saying it as per the official letter that they sent to the Attorney General of the United States. My point is that, on the one hand, there is a major push on American citizens to get this vaccine, but there is little to no push on illegal aliens to get the vaccine. Just shining a light on the hypocrisy. If it were really such a problem, then one would think that masks, testing and vaccines would be mandatory for the thousands that are migrating across the southern border.

Actually, research on SARS and MERS have been going on for nearly two decades, so it’s not really Trump vaccines. Basic knowledge was already well understood.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TKD

By end to this, I hope you mean this impossibly long thread


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No, I meant this horrible virus.
It's a shame that this virus has become so political that we can't eradicate it even though we have the vaccines to do so.
I'm sure if Trump won a second term it would be the democrats that would be the ones refusing to get vaccinate.
The left don't trust the right and right don't trust the left but the answer is always within reach somewhere in the middle.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

More "Facts as we know them":

A person's expected health and life expectancy, and that of their loved ones, are much better if you get a shot.

ApS posts on the vaccine are full of misdirection, misinformation, and outright falsehoods

From that Mountain of Truth known as HuffPost (which hasn't been deplatformed by Google):

"Israel has rolled out its third dose of Pfizer's COVID vaccine for people over the age of 60. Dozens of people got dose number three in Tel Aviv on Sunday. Each person who got the booster shot had their second Pfizer shot at least five months ago. The plan to administer a third vaccine dose was announced last week. A panel of pandemic experts suggested a third shot was needed because the vaccine's effectiveness has appeared to wane as the delta variant spreads across the world."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israe...b0048f361d7a07

[John Mercier]

We know that older people, in general, have weaker immune systems.
They protect coverage would fail sooner than others, and unlike the US, Israel does not want to wait for the hospitalizations and deaths to occur.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Biggd

No, I meant this horrible virus.
It's a shame that this virus has become so political that we can't eradicate it even though we have the vaccines to do so.
I'm sure if Trump won a second term it would be the democrats that would be the ones refusing to get vaccinate.
The left don't trust the right and right don't trust the left but the answer is always within reach somewhere in the middle.

We don't technically have the means to eradicate it.
Since after vaccination, I can still harbor and transmit the virus... it isn't eradicated... just made less harmful to me because of my vaccine.

Over time, it will just separate out the various factions of our society.
Very natural, just not always life and death.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

As I understand it, no one is compelled to read this “impossibly long thread.”

Nor is anyone compelled to post over 1200 times. #letitgo


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[thinkxingu]

I was in Lowe's in Gilford yesterday when the associates all got a corporate memo that "masks were back." School systems are now moving towards masking again in fall. Many people are making in grocery stores, restaurants, etc. again. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident we could've been done with all this if people. Had. Just. Gotten. Vaccinated. Search: "regret for not getting vaccinated."

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by TKD

Nor is anyone compelled to post over 1200 times. #letitgo


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I can almost always “let things go,” but my 1200 posts have been over 17 years. My best posts are the ones I have deleted after writing them and I may do that with this one.

I really appreciate your concern for my mental health.

And welcome to the Forum.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I can almost always “let things go,” but my 1200 posts have been over 17 years. My best posts are the ones I have deleted after writing them and I may do that with this one.

I really appreciate your concern for my mental health.

And welcome to the Forum.

Please don't. As I messaged you some months back, you've always been an awesome contributor—level, thoughtful, candid, and honest.

If anyone should take flack about post count, it's me. Bring it on TKD!

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's amazing the way you inject politics and completely ignore/change history.

The vaccines were not available to most adults until March or April of 2021. (Trump was gone by then--remember?)

Biden and Co have been doing everything they can to get them into anyone who will take one. This is in the face of a huge number of Republicans doing things which will slow acceptance (Open any news source you'd like.)

Reutters is a news source I like!

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN25X01L

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ApS

Reutters is a news source I like!

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN25X01L

On this we can agree, if you’re serious. Least biased and highly factual content.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm sure if Trump won a second term it would be the democrats that would be the ones refusing to get vaccinate.
.

I don't think that's quite fair. The Democrats are not perfect and do not have a monopoly on the truth, but they have been the most aggressive about anti-covid measures the entire time--social distancing, masks, various shut downs, etc. Republicans have often resisted all of these things, including in this forum.

We can debate which side is right, but let's not use one side's actions to paint the other

[John Mercier]

Considering neither side actually developed the vaccines... I really don't think it matters.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's amazing the way you inject politics and completely ignore/change history.

The vaccines were not available to most adults until March or April of 2021. (Trump was gone by then--remember?)

Biden and Co have been doing everything they can to get them into anyone who will take one. This is in the face of a huge number of Republicans doing things which will slow acceptance (Open any news source you'd like.)

Actually, vaccines were rolled out and available in December 2020. Trump was still president.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I was in Lowe's in Gilford yesterday when the associates all got a corporate memo that "masks were back." School systems are now moving towards masking again in fall. Many people are making in grocery stores, restaurants, etc. again. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident we could've been done with all this if people. Had. Just. Gotten. Vaccinated. Search: "regret for not getting vaccinated."

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

There’s only one thing I have to say about the vaccines:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97du1N7Znb0

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I have more faith in the US Postal Service than the CDC to provide better information about Corona. CDC are the epitome of incompetence. In addition, when the “Administration” stops letting thousands of sick and unvaccinated illegal aliens into this country, then maybe “vaccinate hesitancy” may decrease.

Trump's policy on limiting migration is still in place and the CDC agrees with you. From today's New York Times:

"With the number of migrants crossing the southern border surging and the pandemic proving to be far from over, the Biden administration has decided to leave in place for now the public health rule that has allowed it to turn away hundreds of thousands of migrants, officials said.

"The decision, confirmed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday, amounted to a shift by the administration, which had been working on plans to begin lifting the rule this summer, more than a year after it was imposed by the Trump administration. The C.D.C. said allowing noncitizens to come over the border from either Mexico or Canada “creates a serious danger” of further spread of the coronavirus."

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'm pretty confident we could've been done with all this if people. Had. Just. Gotten. Vaccinated."

To create a pandemic you need (1) a virus and (2) specific human behaviors to spread it. To end a pandemic you need all of the following:

1. Scientific knowledge
2. A vaccine
3. Management of human behaviors

Fortunately, management of human behaviors is a science. We have a fairly good understanding of why people do what they do and some knowledge of how to manage behaviors. Unfortunately there are some forces working against that at present. The first is lack of experience managing very large populations to get people to adopt life-saving behaviors. One's stance on vaccinations has very deep-seated roots in personal values, identity, political and social beliefs, and one's environment Those things only change very slowly over time, if ever. It can take a lifetime for a thoughtful person to develop a mature system of values and behaviors, beginning with the adolescent's typically self-centered thinking. What portion of the population is actually "thoughtful," meaning willing to modify self-centered attitudes and behaviors for the survival of society and the human species? I believe it's less than half, which predicts catastrophe in a pandemic or other crisis.

613,000 deaths in the U.S. is a catastrophe. It's 204 times the number of people who died on 9/11, which we previously thought was a catastrophe. How did we get to this point, and why is the pandemic continuing? We have the scientific knowledge and the vaccines to beat COVID-19. What we do not have is effective strategies for managing human behavior on a very large national and global scale.

This is ominous, and it is mirrored in other developing crises that depend on changing human behavior, especially the climate crisis. The problem is simple: we (the world, the U.S.) have achieved a very high level of progress in science, technology, production and distribution of goods, medicine, etc. We have made far less progress with the things that are actually just as important as or even more important for our survival than the more tangible forms of progress. Material progress has vastly outpaced social progress, the ability to work together for our survival on a planetary scale.

After a slow start over a period of millennia, we made very rapid material progress in the last 150 years. The pace accelerated with each decade. There has been visible social progress since about World War II, but it is nowhere near enough to stop crises as big as a pandemic or the climate crisis. In a word, we remain a socially immature species and we may well be out of time for evolving quickly enough to save our species.

For a more optimistic view of our chances of survival, see Toby Ord's The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity. https://www.amazon.com/Precipice-Exi.../dp/0316484911

I don't share Ord's optimism because human behavior is rooted in very powerful instincts like preservation of the individual self that have persisted in the human brain, like prioritizing one's well-being today over one's survival 30 years from now (you would rather eat an unhealthy diet today than be alive 30 years from now), or the survival and welfare of our descendants 500 or 1000 years from now. You may be worried about your children and grandchildren's future, but have you thought about what life will be like for your 100G grandchildren if we don't fix the climate crisis? No, because you can't identify with your human race that far in the future. You feel disconnected from those future people, even though they will carry your genes, just as your children do.

Have you thought about what life will be like for your children if this pandemic goes on for 5 years or 10 years? The impact on their education and jobs? How an economic crisis will impact them? Right now we have no reason to believe that the pandemic will end this year (certainly not) or next year (probably not). Around the globe we are pouring billions of dollars into the pandemic, wildfires, floods, hurricanes, etc. At some point, we're going to run out of resources to fight against these catastrophes and they will overwhelm us. You can already see that the pandemic has overwhelmed the U.S. with all our resources, since 613,000 people have died and infections are increasing again (+142% in the last 14 days).

The question is simple: what can you do today to slow down these catastrophes? And one answer is simple: get vaccinated.

P.S. I am really not convinced that all the time spent by intelligent people in this forum has any usefulness at all for solving these problems. You/we/I should seek more productive venues for these discussions and avenues of concrete action. Posting here only provides more opportunities for falsehoods to be spread.

[John Mercier]

The bigger spread is citizens... moving state to state, county to county, town to town.

If you look at the spread only on a map of NH, Belknap County stands out... and if you go anywhere in the county, you see plates from nearly several other States.

We are just a very mobile country.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Actually, vaccines were rolled out and available in December 2020. Trump was still president.

The vaccines were rolled in December, but only to older people.

My post was correcting your original statement that "They were the "Trump Vaccines" to begin with, so anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity to receive one when Trump was in office."

It was not until April or so that "anyone that wanted one had ample opportunity"

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We are just a very mobile country.

We're a mobile world, which is why it's naive to think that a new wave propelled by Delta or the next variant won't make its way to New Hampshire. Who can forget the big red dot on the infection map that began in New York and expanded until it engulfed New Hampshire in 2020? Right now New Hampshire is one of the safest places in the US, but that's unlikely to continue unless the rate of vaccinations increases.