Staffing Issues for Summer of 2021

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

True...no one is even applying for jobs that pay $15 and up.
No one in the business that I know of is offering $7.25....it's almost a bidding war in the industry

How about raising your prices accordingly and see what happens? Price of EVERYTHING way up this year. Might as well include a great dinner at VK! Besides if you raise prices say 15% it's still a "wicked bahgain".

[ApS]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

How about raising your prices accordingly and see what happens? Price of EVERYTHING way up this year. Might as well include a great dinner at VK! Besides if you raise prices say 15% it's still a "wicked bahgain".

Some gas stations have run out of gasoline already.
Makes commuting less attractive.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

True...no one is even applying for jobs that pay $15 and up.
No one in the business that I know of is offering $7.25....it's almost a bidding war in the industry

I know nothing about restaurant business, I have never owned one, would never start one. Best of luck to you and all others.

I am just trying to compare your comments to what I saw in Sawyers and Jon's roast beef the other day. How is it that they can find adults/kids to work at their place where others can not. Just curious.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I know nothing about restaurant business, I have never owned one, would never start one. Best of luck to you and all others.

I am just trying to compare your comments to what I saw in Sawyers and Jon's roast beef the other day. How is it that they can find adults/kids to work at their place where others can not. Just curious.

If you follow back you will see the issue really isnt wait staff but kitchen staff. I do know, because my ex works at Jon's, that the "kitchen help" there is mainly family and more preparation than cooking like in a restaurant.

[tis]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I know nothing about restaurant business, I have never owned one, would never start one. Best of luck to you and all others.

I am just trying to compare your comments to what I saw in Sawyers and Jon's roast beef the other day. How is it that they can find adults/kids to work at their place where others can not. Just curious.

I would be willing to bet they are short of help too. I don't know if there is any business in any industry that is full staffed. It is terrible to get qualified help no matter the pay.

[MotorHead]

I found this interesting article on CNN

Restaurant workers say industry is facing a wage shortage, not a labor shortage

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/10/econo...ps/index.html/

[Biggd]

Well we all know CNN leans far left and fox leans far right so I'm sure the answer is somehwere in the middle.

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I found this interesting article on CNN

Restaurant workers say industry is facing a wage shortage, not a labor shortage

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/10/econo...ps/index.html/

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[thinkxingu]

NPR went deep into this yesterday and claimed three reasons for people not returning to work: 1. Low wages and/or hours/flexibility—that the closures through the pandemic opened people's eyes to their situations. They gave people with children who struggled to pay for childcare as the prime example. 2. Remaining fear—people with health issues or who remain unvaccinated are still hesitant to return. 3. People using this opportunity to investigate different paths forward.

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

NPR went deep into this yesterday and claimed three reasons for people not returning to work: 1. Low wages and/or hours/flexibility—that the closures through the pandemic opened people's eyes to their situations. They gave people with children who struggled to pay for childcare as the prime example. 2. Remaining fear—people with health issues or who remain unvaccinated are still hesitant to return. 3. People using this opportunity to investigate different paths forward.

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# 4 = laziness / feeding at the government trough. But NPR won’t go that far.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

# 4 = laziness / feeding at the government trough. But NPR won’t go that far.

They cited a few reports that said that even though people want to believe that narrative, it's not what they found on the whole.

We know where you stand with confirmation bias, so it probably doesn't matter, but these reports are based on facts and data:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/rese...g-to-work.html

https://tobin.yale.edu/sites/default...tion_vF(1).pdf

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[thinkxingu]

And in case you don't feel like reading the Yale study:

"We find that that the workers who experi-

enced larger increases in UI generosity did not experience larger declines in employment when

the benefits expansion went into effect. Additionally, we find that workers facing larger ex-

pansions in UI benefits have returned to their previous jobs over time at similar rates as others."

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

They cited a few reports that said that even though people want to believe that narrative, it's not what they found on the whole.

We know where you stand with confirmation bias, so it probably doesn't matter, but these reports are based on facts and data:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/rese...g-to-work.html

https://tobin.yale.edu/sites/default...tion_vF(1).pdf

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I believe that it’s necessary to consider the reports “based on facts and data” with a healthy dose of skepticism. Sad to say, I believe that we are being given incomplete information and half truths. It gives me zero satisfaction to say this, and it’s painful to realize that this is undoubtedly widespread.
P.S. I don’t believe that your #3 has merit; people should not be rediscovering themselves at taxpayer expense!

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

And in case you don't feel like reading the Yale study:

"We find that that the workers who experi-

enced larger increases in UI generosity did not experience larger declines in employment when

the benefits expansion went into effect. Additionally, we find that workers facing larger ex-

pansions in UI benefits have returned to their previous jobs over time at similar rates as others."

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Yale study….is this unbiased? The chickens are on the move now, and will soon be coming home to roost. Food, lumber and now fuel prices are headed to the moon. Anyone that wants to work is working, for the most part. The rest of them are sitting around making excuses as to why they don’t want to or “can’t” work, based on today’s climate.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Yale study….is this unbiased? The chickens are on the move now, and will soon be coming home to roost. Food, lumber and now fuel prices are headed to the moon. Anyone that wants to work is working, for the most part. The rest of them are sitting around making excuses as to why they don’t want to or “can’t” work, based on today’s climate.

Just wanted to elaborate on Seaplanes comment about food prices.
Our suppliers are saying they've never seen anything like it.
They can not fill orders for chicken,cooking oils such as canola have tripled in price.Shucked clams and lobster meat are double last years prices.Some red meats have nearly doubled and any products related to corn will be scarce and expensive due to loss of crops in South America from drought.
At least fish has not gone through the roof yet.......guess it's just the times we're in.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Just wanted to elaborate on Seaplanes comment about food prices.
Our suppliers are saying they've never seen anything like it.
They can not fill orders for chicken,cooking oils such as canola have tripled in price.Shucked clams and lobster meat are double last years prices.Some red meats have nearly doubled and any products related to corn will be scarce and expensive due to loss of crops in South America from drought.
At least fish has not gone through the roof yet.......guess it's just the times we're in.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m starting to feel like the frog in the “boil the frog” parable…. The water is getting warmer by the day!

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Yale study….is this unbiased? The chickens are on the move now, and will soon be coming home to roost. Food, lumber and now fuel prices are headed to the moon. Anyone that wants to work is working, for the most part. The rest of them are sitting around making excuses as to why they don’t want to or “can’t” work, based on today’s climate.

How did we get into this mess?
Who made the stupid decisions to get us into this inflation.

Maybe someone can provide answers.

[fatlazyless]

Local restaurants, just like everyone else, get high quality - low prices by making the drive to Market Basket in Plymouth and loading up the car/suv/pickup.

Like ...... quality food supply is quality food supply ..... so, why not and a good restaurant meal is all about the food preparation and presentation. No one really seems to care where the restaurant supply came from ...... whether it was delivered by www.Sysco.com or purchased at http://www.shopmarketbasket.com/stor...rket-basket-86.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

How did we get into this mess?
Who made the stupid decisions to get us into this inflation.

Maybe someone can provide answers.

That is an excellent question.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Local restaurants, just like everyone else, get high quality - low prices by making the drive to Market Basket in Plymouth and loading up the car/suv/pickup.

Like ...... quality food supply is quality food supply ..... so, why not and a good restaurant meal is all about the food preparation and presentation. No one really seems to care where the restaurant supply came from ...... whether it was delivered by www.Sysco.com or purchased at http://www.shopmarketbasket.com/stor...rket-basket-86.

While I know nothing about running a restaurant or even a sub shop, I can not imagine a restaurant owner going to Market Basket or Shaws or wherever.

[phoenix]

always find it interesting but not surprising that many economist will find a study that will support their ideology ( Paul Krugman is an example) . There are a record number of job opening over 8m right now. As SAMIAM said kitchen help can make 15 per hour working or 15 per hour not . Most people will make the logical decision . Business will have to make the rational decision which the VK did that is close for dinner. They know their customers and raising prices by a lot will drive customers away. By the way I am a graduate economist( certainly not bragging ) and very few economist have ever had to manage a payroll.

[Pam]

Seeing all the help wanted signs everywhere I go, I read through this thread with interest. Something that no-one addresses is the fact that there are fewer teenagers and young adults today than there were in yesteryear. I worked until recently at a large university in Boston, and they started planning for the drop in college aged people back in the late 90's. Schools that depend on a large applicant pool noticed that the birthrate had begun to fall, and that they would need to strategize to remain competitive in the future. We just got confirmation of this fact in the 2020 census.

I don't know what this means for business owners who depend on the teenage/young adult labor force, but it's a definite factor.

For the people who like to speak of grazing at the public trough, etc., it seems that a large part of the labor shortage (though not entirely) is for seasonal workers. Those people are not getting unemployment.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

While I know nothing about running a restaurant or even a sub shop, I can not imagine a restaurant owner going to Market Basket or Shaws or wherever.

Just off the top of my head, it seems entirely possible and reasonably doable to operate a restaurant in the Plymouth area where each and every food/restaurant item is sourced entirely, 100%, from the Plymouth Market Basket.

Running the business model 100% based on this rule that it comes from this Market Basket, or we do not have it or get it from any other source. It's Market Basket and no where else seems very doable for a restaurant.

Like .......... why not .......... said the inquisitive poster?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by phoenix

always find it interesting but not surprising that many economist will find a study that will support their ideology ( Paul Krugman is an example) . There are a record number of job opening over 8m right now. As SAMIAM said kitchen help can make 15 per hour working or 15 per hour not . Most people will make the logical decision . Business will have to make the rational decision which the VK did that is close for dinner. They know their customers and raising prices by a lot will drive customers away. By the way I am a graduate economist( certainly not bragging ) and very few economist have ever had to manage a payroll.

One thing that economists on both sides of the aisle have pushed for over the past 5 years has been higher bargaining power for working class Americans. Trump's immigration policies, Biden's covid relief, and stated objectives of both, have all included policies that put direct upward pressure on domestic wages. Setting aside whether this is a good thing or a bad thing in general, no economist should be surprised that Sam is having a tough time hiring this year (or next...)

[Biggd]

It's the old supply and demand issue.. It was bound to happen. You close businesses up for over a year then the economy bounces back and there just isn't enough built up surplus to keep up with demand. It will take a while for businesses to catch up but it will.

Originally Posted by MotorHead

How did we get into this mess?
Who made the stupid decisions to get us into this inflation.

Maybe someone can provide answers.

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[Biggd]

If they can't get enough help to man the restaurant how are they going to break away to go shopping at Market Basket?
You obviously have no clue what it takes to run a small business!

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Just off the top of my head, it seems entirely possible and reasonably doable to operate a restaurant in the Plymouth area where each and every food/restaurant item is sourced entirely, 100%, from the Plymouth Market Basket.

Running the business model 100% based on this rule that it comes from this Market Basket, or we do not have it or get it from any other source. It's Market Basket and no where else seems very doable for a restaurant.

Like .......... why not .......... said the inquisitive poster?

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[fatlazyless]

Market Basket-Plymouth is open every single day, 7-days/week, from 7am to 8pm and open starting at 6am for seniors, age 60 and older.

For a restaurant business located, say, within a relative short drive away, it could be an advantage to have such a large food supply for running a restaurant always open seven days, and always available as opposed to getting deliveries from a restaurant supply like Sysco.

How do restaurant food items from a delivered food service like Sysco COST as compared to Market Basket and what is the difference between restaurant food service and buying at a super-market?

In the summer months, I have noticed what must have been summer camp dinning room customers at the Walmart with shopping carts very loaded with many items probably intended for feeding a lot of campers. Specifically, giant cans of tuna fish and mayonaisse.

Summer camp dining room food service is different than restaurant food service but the buyer made their decision to purchase at the Walmart so there's probably a number of reasons for where commercial dining gets its food supply. Is probably a very competitive business based on price, quality, choice, convenience.

Does Sysco hire extremely attractive restaurant sales ladies who are encouraged to dress provocatively as a design to help its restaurant sales to individual restaurants or do the Sysco truck drivers who deliver the items do the sales calls as well as driving and delivering the big semi tractor trailer truck?

What do you think? ......

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

In the summer months, I have noticed what must have been summer camp dinning room customers at the Walmart with shopping carts very loaded with many items probably intended for feeding a lot of campers. Specifically, giant cans of tuna fish and mayonnaise.

Oh that was me, buying lunch for my sons.

[fatlazyless]

So many choices for where to buy for a restaurant business ..... a restaurant supplier that delivers ..... or a local super-market.

Could be the restaurants go to both depending on what they need and how fast they need to get it?

As far as I know, there's really not much difference in price between the two, with all three, Walmart, Hannaford, and Market Basket all lower priced than the restaurant suppliers ..... which seems surprising ..... but that's the way it supposedly is because these three stores all have to compete on prices to attract customers.

[MotorHead]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mcd...-YRagtkbyuj9ym

[phoenix]

most big companies are doing this. They have more pricing ability and name brand recognition . Tougher for a small mom and pop. This is free market at work . I was on a board of a residential brain injury company with a facility in Gilroy Cal, we were paying aids around 13 per hour and we found that Wendy's was paying $14 for a much easier job so we raised wages. Of course the insurance companies didn't allow us to raise prices regionally

[8gv]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mcd...-YRagtkbyuj9ym

McD's has some major problems operating in a rising labor cost market.

First, there's the menu and its price structure. There is a "value" section of the menu and there is all the rest of the menu. When prices are increased on the rest of the menu the return from that increase is reduced by trade off to the value items.

This makes it harder to keep the value items priced low. Eventually "value" has to be redefined. You may recall the McD's "Dollar" menu. Now it is "$1, $2 and $3" value menu.

The second and in my view bigger problem, is the quality of execution when each labor hour costs so much. To provide fast, accurate and friendly service there needs to be adequate staffing. Herein lies the dilemma. Hourly pay that is too low can result in understaffing. Raising wages to an attractive level can bring in more bodies but there is no guarantee that the additional employees improve results. The cost to train them becomes higher and there is a temptation to minimize the hours spent doing so.

If the pool of available workers does not increase you just end up with the same tight staffing and mediocre execution but at greater cost.

This situation is worsened by the current government sponsored couch careers.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by 8gv

McD's has some major problems operating in a rising labor cost market.

First, there's the menu and its price structure. There is a "value" section of the menu and there is all the rest of the menu. When prices are increased on the rest of the menu the return from that increase is reduced by trade off to the value items.

This makes it harder to keep the value items priced low. Eventually "value" has to be redefined. You may recall the McD's "Dollar" menu. Now it is "$1, $2 and $3" value menu.

The second and in my view bigger problem, is the quality of execution when each labor hour costs so much. To provide fast, accurate and friendly service there needs to be adequate staffing. Herein lies the dilemma. Hourly pay that is too low can result in understaffing. Raising wages to an attractive level can bring in more bodies but there is no guarantee that the additional employees improve results. The cost to train them becomes higher and there is a temptation to minimize the hours spent doing so.

If the pool of available workers does not increase you just end up with the same tight staffing and mediocre execution but at greater cost.

This situation is worsened by the current government sponsored couch careers.

Full disclosure: I'm not an economics guy, but here goes:

Robert Reich, in his book The Common Good, delves into "Shareholder" capitalism and "Stockholder" capitalism. The former, he claims, exists when all three points of the capitalism triangle—consumer, worker, and owner—exist in a state that works equally for all. For example, workers get paid well, owners make a reasonable amount of money, and consumers are offered solid products at fair prices.

The latter, however, maximizes profit and pay for the owner/stockholders while adversely affecting product quality and price, worker pay, or both.

My basic question is this: why is it that worker pay and benefit questions always result in "costs of products will skyrocket" rather than "CEOs/stockholders/etc." might not make 320x what their employees make?

This is a serious question as, long before my father passed away, he watched this trend in his company and it always hurt him. In the 60's when he started, his bosses made five times what he made while in the '00s when he retired, they were making thirty times.

I looked this up not long ago, and though his numbers were probably off (low!), he wasn't wrong at all: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-...ypical-worker/

Thoughts? Why isn't this talked about more?

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[Biggd]

Only one reason, GREED.

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Full disclosure: I'm not an economics guy, but here goes:

Robert Reich, in his book The Common Good, delves into "Shareholder" capitalism and "Stockholder" capitalism. The former, he claims, exists when all three points of the capitalism triangle—consumer, worker, and owner—exist in a state that works equally for all. For example, workers get paid well, owners make a reasonable amount of money, and consumers are offered solid products at fair prices.

The latter, however, maximizes profit and pay for the owner/stockholders while adversely affecting product quality and price, worker pay, or both.

My basic question is this: why is it that worker pay and benefit questions always result in "costs of products will skyrocket" rather than "CEOs/stockholders/etc." might not make 320x what their employees make?

This is a serious question as, long before my father passed away, he watched this trend in his company and it always hurt him. In the 60's when he started, his bosses made five times what he made while in the '00s when he retired, they were making thirty times.

I looked this up not long ago, and though his numbers were probably off (low!), he wasn't wrong at all: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-...ypical-worker/

Thoughts? Why isn't this talked about more?

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[jeffk]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Full disclosure: I'm not an economics guy, but here goes:

Robert Reich, in his book The Common Good, delves into "Shareholder" capitalism and "Stockholder" capitalism. The former, he claims, exists when all three points of the capitalism triangle—consumer, worker, and owner—exist in a state that works equally for all. For example, workers get paid well, owners make a reasonable amount of money, and consumers are offered solid products at fair prices.

The latter, however, maximizes profit and pay for the owner/stockholders while adversely affecting product quality and price, worker pay, or both.

My basic question is this: why is it that worker pay and benefit questions always result in "costs of products will skyrocket" rather than "CEOs/stockholders/etc." might not make 320x what their employees make?

This is a serious question as, long before my father passed away, he watched this trend in his company and it always hurt him. In the 60's when he started, his bosses made five times what he made while in the '00s when he retired, they were making thirty times.

I looked this up not long ago, and though his numbers were probably off (low!), he wasn't wrong at all: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-...ypical-worker/

Thoughts? Why isn't this talked about more?

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I'm not an economics guy either but :

"why is it that worker pay and benefit questions always result in "costs of products will skyrocket"" is NOT true if the individual workers EARN their pay and benefit increases through higher productivity via education/learning and good work practices. Such a worker returns more in profit to a company than their wage increases cost. Good companies HAPPILY pay such employees what they are worth.

On the other hand, unions often bargain for wages that exceed what productivity will justify. Or, set in place rising compensation based on longevity rather than productivity. These increases DO increase production costs but are tolerated by companies due to union pressure and the limited and predictable nature of the increases. However, that's a trap. Any non productivity based increases eventually corrode a business, i.e. the American auto industry. Auto unions controlled wages in the US but couldn't control competing wages in foreign countries. Nor could they control the growth of robotics that eliminated overly expensive workers.

""CEOs/stockholders/etc." might not make 320x what their employees make?"
It is the classic "the buck stops here" which implies that the RESPONSIBILITY (and the pay) accrues to the top. The CEO (and the Board) make the major decisions that guide the growth of a company. It the company is smart, a significant portion of the CEO's compensation is tied to profitability. The CEO is not only making sure that products get built but also predicting future needs for products and actions of competitors. Further, no one else is above the CEO making sure he doesn't mess things up. As an employee or even a manager makes decisions and take actions, others are overseeing their work. No one oversees the CEO. They walk a tightrope without a net. Employee mistakes might cost $100s. A CEO's mistakes could cost $billions. The top level people EARN their money by growing profit.

Further, it is not how many times the salary is of a CEO compared to one worker that has meaning. It is how many times the salary of a CEO is compared to the cumulative salary of ALL the workers in a company BECAUSE the CEO is in charge of ALL of them and ALL of their efforts. For example, Microsoft's CEO makes $44 million vs $4 billion in overall employee payments, about 1.1%, i.e. for each employee dollar paid the CEO gets 1 cent. OR how much the CEO makes as compared to the revenue of the company. For example, the Microsoft CEO's $44 million against a company revenue of about $160 billion or about .1% of revenue. Another way to think about it is when you buy a $2000 computer, the CEO makes $2. Of course this is a simplified example because CEO's also get performance bonuses and other perks. (Numbers were pulled from various public Microsoft reports and are not meant to be precise but as an example only.)

Without a competent CEO, products wouldn't get made at all, no workers would earn anything, and you wouldn't have your computer to purchase.

I won't say that all companies are well managed or that many CEOs aren't overpaid but such companies usually struggle or fail eventually. Smart management KNOWS how it is supposed to work and keeps compensation for EVERYONE in line with their productivity. The process is VERY dynamic and challenging as markets, competition, and the overall economy is always changing.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I'm not an economics guy either but :

"why is it that worker pay and benefit questions always result in "costs of products will skyrocket"" is NOT true if the individual workers EARN their pay and benefit increases through higher productivity via education/learning and good work practices. Such a worker returns more in profit to a company than their wage increases cost. Good companies HAPPILY pay such employees what they are worth.

On the other hand, unions often bargain for wages that exceed what productivity will justify. Or, set in place rising compensation based on longevity rather than productivity. These increases DO increase production costs but are tolerated by companies due to union pressure and the limited and predictable nature of the increases. However, that's a trap. Any non productivity based increases eventually corrode a business, i.e. the American auto industry. Auto unions controlled wages in the US but couldn't control competing wages in foreign countries. Nor could they control the growth of robotics that eliminated overly expensive workers.

""CEOs/stockholders/etc." might not make 320x what their employees make?"
It is the classic "the buck stops here" which implies that the RESPONSIBILITY (and the pay) accrues to the top. The CEO (and the Board) make the major decisions that guide the growth of a company. It the company is smart, a significant portion of the CEO's compensation is tied to profitability. The CEO is not only making sure that products get built but also predicting future needs for products and actions of competitors. Further, no one else is above the CEO making sure he doesn't mess things up. As an employee or even a manager makes decisions and take actions, others are overseeing their work. No one oversees the CEO. They walk a tightrope without a net. Employee mistakes might cost $100s. A CEO's mistakes could cost $billions. The top level people EARN their money by growing profit.

Further, it is not how many times the salary is of a CEO compared to one worker that has meaning. It is how many times the salary of a CEO is compared to the cumulative salary of ALL the workers in a company BECAUSE the CEO is in charge of ALL of them and ALL of their efforts. For example, Microsoft's CEO makes $44 million vs $4 billion in overall employee payments, about 1.1%, i.e. for each employee dollar paid the CEO gets 1 cent. OR how much the CEO makes as compared to the revenue of the company. For example, the Microsoft CEO's $44 million against a company revenue of about $160 billion or about .1% of revenue. Another way to think about it is when you buy a $2000 computer, the CEO makes $2. Of course this is a simplified example because CEO's also get performance bonuses and other perks. (Numbers were pulled from various public Microsoft reports and are not meant to be precise but as an example only.)

Without a competent CEO, products wouldn't get made at all, no workers would earn anything, and you wouldn't have your computer to purchase.

I won't say that all companies are well managed or that many CEOs aren't overpaid but such companies usually struggle or fail eventually. Smart management KNOWS how it is supposed to work and keeps compensation for EVERYONE in line with their productivity. The process is VERY dynamic and challenging as markets, competition, and the overall economy is always changing.

You just spent a few pages on justifying what I'm suggesting is a problem—essentially criticizing the low people on the totem and praising the high.

Unions exist BECAUSE owners weren't/aren't doing the right thing. My father lost a finger to a machine that he had told management to add safety gear to years earlier. Once OSHA moved in, guess which machine got a safety apparatus?

In the first decade I was a teacher, the highest raise was 1%. One contract had 0, 0, 1/2% raises, and those were WITH a union. Can you imagine what the district would've asked us to do/take without one?

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[tis]

Some people are willing to risk everything and start a business. Some people are willing to work from dawn to dusk while others don't work one minute extra. Some people stay awake at night making sure they have enough business to keep their employees who depend on them while others just show up for work (if they do) You think they should all get the same money? Robert Reich is full of crap.

[Biggd]

I don't think anyone is saying they should all make the same amount of money but we keep asking on here "why are we paying people more money not to work than to go to work"?
Maybe the answer is to pay people that want to work more money.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

Some people are willing to risk everything and start a business. Some people are willing to work from dawn to dusk while others don't work one minute extra. Some people stay awake at night making sure they have enough business to keep their employees who depend on them while others just show up for work (if they do) You think they should all get the same money? Robert Reich is full of crap.

Nobody's saying all people should make the same—that's you further justifying the system and skewing the discussion.

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[jeffk]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

You just spent a few pages on justifying what I'm suggesting is a problem—essentially criticizing the low people on the totem and praising the high.

Unions exist BECAUSE owners weren't/aren't doing the right thing. My father lost a finger to a machine that he had told management to add safety gear to years earlier. Once OSHA moved in, guess which machine got a safety apparatus?

In the first decade I was a teacher, the highest raise was 1%. One contract had 0, 0, 1/2% raises, and those were WITH a union. Can you imagine what the district would've asked us to do/take without one?

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Unions HAD a great purpose when they started. Conditions were bad and wages abusive. For the most part, that is no longer true. Most issues unions were created to address have been enshrined in law and federal and state watchdogs such as OSHA. Beyond that, most businessmen are MUCH more enlightened about employees and the relationship between good working conditions and productivity. To build the best, most profitable company, you need skilled and happy employees with an excellent work ethic.

You mention a contract with 0, 0, 1/2% raises and bemoan the small size of the increases. I would ask what individual employees did to EARN such increases? Show up? Keep breathing? What standards were in place to evaluate their efforts to justify their pay increases? Nothing! Because the best to the worst teacher got the same raises, per the contract. Sure, they might have had a yearly "evaluation" but it was mostly meaningless because nothing was tied to the outcome. Such raises are inflationary by their nature.

When the companies I worked for did evaluations they were measured against a uniform scale of expectations based on their current position. For example, new, recent grad employees were not expected to show much leadership skills. Their entry jobs did not give them much chance to do so. All employees ended up in various positions on a "ladder", the best at the top. Junior employees could be high on the ladder if they exceeded expectations for their job. All employees had full access to the evaluation form and it was made clear in the evaluation what areas might be substandard and what areas were room for growth. Growth opportunities were presented during the next year.

If slow times hit, the worst performing employees, the lowest on the ladder, were laid off, not the least senior as in many contract jobs. The most productive people were retained.

In summary, efforts were rewarded. Benefits were generous. There was no union to push the issue. In current times, skilled and focused workers are paid more and generally treated well. Skilled employees could easily change companies and the management knew it and respected it. I have no problem with unions protecting those in unfair situations but their focus on raises for all, no matter what, is not healthy. They should be focused on helping their workers build the best skills for their job and then making sure the employer has fair and uniform evaluations, a competitive wage scale for their industry, and fair working conditions.

I am NOT criticizing the "low people" on the totem pole. I am pointing out that THEY have the responsibility to improve their condition and raise their pay by working hard, learning new skills, showing initiative, and having a good work ethic. The company has the responsibility to recognize and reward such efforts that make the company stronger and more profitable. If the company does not, well, the skills the employee has mastered are portable to a new job. Unions COULD enhance the process but, IMO, as they currently act, they mostly do not.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Unions HAD a great purpose when they started. Conditions were bad and wages abusive. For the most part, that is no longer true. Most issues unions were created to address have been enshrined in law and federal and state watchdogs such as OSHA. Beyond that, most businessmen are MUCH more enlightened about employees and the relationship between good working conditions and productivity. To build the best, most profitable company, you need skilled and happy employees with an excellent work ethic.

You mention a contract with 0, 0, 1/2% raises and bemoan the small size of the increases. I would ask what individual employees did to EARN such increases? Show up? Keep breathing? What standards were in place to evaluate their efforts to justify their pay increases? Nothing! Because the best to the worst teacher got the same raises, per the contract. Sure, they might have had a yearly "evaluation" but it was mostly meaningless because nothing was tied to the outcome. Such raises are inflationary by their nature.

When the companies I worked for did evaluations they were measured against a uniform scale of expectations based on their current position. For example, new, recent grad employees were not expected to show much leadership skills. Their entry jobs did not give them much chance to do so. All employees ended up in various positions on a "ladder", the best at the top. Junior employees could be high on the ladder if they exceeded expectations for their job. All employees had full access to the evaluation form and it was made clear in the evaluation what areas might be substandard and what areas were room for growth. Growth opportunities were presented during the next year.

If slow times hit, the worst performing employees, the lowest on the ladder, were laid off, not the least senior as in many contract jobs. The most productive people were retained.

In summary, efforts were rewarded. Benefits were generous. There was no union to push the issue. In current times, skilled and focused workers are paid more and generally treated well. Skilled employees could easily change companies and the management knew it and respected it. I have no problem with unions protecting those in unfair situations but their focus on raises for all, no matter what, is not healthy. They should be focused on helping their workers build the best skills for their job and then making sure the employer has fair and uniform evaluations, a competitive wage scale for their industry, and fair working conditions.

I am NOT criticizing the "low people" on the totem pole. I am pointing out that THEY have the responsibility to improve their condition and raise their pay by working hard, learning new skills, showing initiative, and having a good work ethic. The company has the responsibility to recognize and reward such efforts that make the company stronger and more profitable. If the company does not, well, the skills the employee has mastered are portable to a new job. Unions COULD enhance the process but, IMO, as they currently act, they mostly do not.

Well, laddering isn’t the be all, end all either. I worked at a place where the laddering was done, not by merit, but by favoritism. I watched my place on the ladder (which was not told to employees unless they went to HR) change based on which projects or group leaders were favored. For several years, I was laddered against my group leader’s sister-in-law. Had absolutely nothing to do with my job performance.


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[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Only one reason, GREED.

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Greed is good. Greed is right. Greed works. . . .


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[Descant]

0, 0, 1/2%. I'm not clear when that was, but I do reacll a time in the 8's when things were bad all over and the local teachers union agreed to no pay raises. Things were tough all over and it was appreciated by the taxpayers. This is quite unlike the bad press the national unions are getting today. Two things in the background. The likelihood was that there would have been many layoffs had the payroll budget not been held steady. The other is that many public employee contracts include step increase just because you've been on the job another year.

[Biggd]

I expected nothing less from you.

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Greed is good. Greed is right. Greed works. . . .


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[TheTimeTraveler]

Gov. Sununu has just signed an order that stops the Federal unemployment premium as of June 19th. State unemployment will STILL exist.

This may mean that some of these folks may have an incentive to return to work and help out the many New Hampshire businesses who are starving for employees.

Good news and let's hope it helps out!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

Gov. Sununu has just signed an order that stops the Federal unemployment premium as of June 19th. State unemployment will STILL exist.

This may mean that some of these folks may have an incentive to return to work and help out the many New Hampshire businesses who are starving for employees.

Good news and let's hope it helps out!

If you come off unemployment for 8 consecutive weeks you can receive a 500 employment bonus for part time and 1000 for full time employment

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[Descant]

Bravo Gov. Sununu

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

Bravo Gov. Sununu

Twenty-one states involved:

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampprojec...nt-benefits%2F

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I expected nothing less from you.

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haha I’m glad to have met your expectations. Before I posted, I was thinking “I hope I can meet Biggd’s expectations with this. I’d be crushed if I were to fall short. After all, his approval is my goal.”

Memorial Day is almost here. Everyone enjoy the lake and have fun.


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[mswlogo]

Interesting interview with owners of Hart’s Turkey Farm regarding labor shortages


https://www.nhpr.org/post/nh-restaur...hange#stream/0

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Interesting interview with owners of Hart’s Turkey Farm regarding labor shortages


https://www.nhpr.org/post/nh-restaur...hange#stream/0

I addressed much of what the article suggests in post #108, followed up with studies that show no/little correlation between supplemental unemployment and returning to work.

One thing this article adds is the foreign worker situation—they mention Covid limitations, but Trump's policies began the process.

I'm interested to see what this summer will be like in terms of dining out. Perhaps my Ramseyan beans and rice, rice and beans combined with the need to keep my suburban dad bod in check has come at the right time!

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[tis]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I addressed much of what the article suggests in post #108, followed up with studies that show no/little correlation between supplemental unemployment and returning to work.

One thing this article adds is the foreign worker situation—they mention Covid limitations, but Trump's policies began the process.

I'm interested to see what this summer will be like in terms of dining out. Perhaps my Ramseyan beans and rice, rice and beans combined with the need to keep my suburban dad bod in check has come at the right time!

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Think, I hate to disagree but I do. I am sure you don't believe every study you read. There is no question if some, and I do say SOME people, can be paid not to work they will take advantage of it. Some have pride and would not take tax money unless it was absolutely necessary but others have no problem with it.

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

haha I’m glad to have met your expectations. Before I posted, I was thinking “I hope I can meet Biggd’s expectations with this. I’d be crushed if I were to fall short. After all, his approval is my goal.”

Memorial Day is almost here. Everyone enjoy the lake and have fun.


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There's meeting, then there's exceeding ...something to aspire to??

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

Think, I hate to disagree but I do. I am sure you don't believe every study you read. There is no question if some, and I do say SOME people, can be paid not to work they will take advantage of it. Some have pride and would not take tax money unless it was absolutely necessary but others have no problem with it.

You can disagree all you want, but multiple studies have shown a much lower correlation between supplemental unemployment and returning to work than most would want the narrative to be. Multiple studies, not your or others' gut feelings.

Those studies show that it exists—and we'd be obtuse not to believe so given that *some* of the anecdotal stories are real—but not nearly at a level commensurate with the political narrative.

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[tis]

If that's true, how do you explain the millions of people in this country who are able bodied but make a career of collecting unemployment?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

If that's true, how do you explain the millions of people in this country who are able bodied but make a career of collecting unemployment?

You are talking about two different things here: people who "make a career of collecting unemployment" and people not returning to employment because of the supplemental unemployment benefits.

There have, and will always be, some of the former—that's not what we're discussing. It's the narrative that people aren't returning to work because they're "making more on unemployment" that has been shown (through studies and data) to be inaccurate.

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[phoenix]

maybe you could provide the links to these numerous studies so that we all can be enlightened

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by phoenix

maybe you could provide the links to these numerous studies so that we all can be enlightened

I mean, other than the ones I already posted above?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/rese...g-to-work.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ma...it-11613075086

https://www.frbsf.org/economic-resea...scourage-work/

https://econofact.org/have-enhanced-...scouraged-work

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-600-...rk-11596015000

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I mean, other than the ones I already posted above?

Google is your friend: https://www.google.com/search?q=corr...obile&ie=UTF-8

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What’s that I keep hearing about??? Oh yeah, “Confirmation Bias”! It’s clear that “Couch Careers” are alive and well. No BS studies will convince me otherwise.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

What’s that I keep hearing about??? Oh yeah, “Confirmation Bias”! It’s clear that “Couch Careers” are alive and well. No BS studies will convince me otherwise.

Coming from the guy who posted a clearly debunked article that literally flew in the face of EVERY scientific publication at the time and then was redacted everywhere?

A "study" literally picked up by an education program to teach how to spot false information?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha!!!

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[thinkxingu]

A line from one of those articles above sums up this discussion (paraphrased): the system of people returning to work or not in relation to supplemental unemployment is much more nuanced than the current narrative that people simply aren't returning to work because they can make more on unemployment.

In my original post, above, I referred to a few of the other variables NPR and others have added to the nuance.

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[phoenix]

well i guess we will get a good example soon as 21 states will eliminate the added benefit and offer a substantial bonus if they go back to work including NH

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Coming from the guy who posted a clearly debunked article that literally flew in the face of EVERY scientific publication at the time and then was redacted everywhere?

A "study" literally picked up by an education program to teach how to spot false information?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha!!!

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I see now….Whatever I reference constitutes “Confirmation Bias”, but whatever you post (including information from that left-wing cesspool called NPR) is not “Confirmation Bias”.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I see now….Whatever I reference constitutes “Confirmation Bias”, but whatever you post (including information from that left-wing cesspool called NPR) is not “Confirmation Bias”.

NPR is rated with a left-center bias which provides highly factual information...hardly a cesspool in comparison to the source you provided.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

NPR is rated with a left-center bias which provides highly factual information...hardly a cesspool in comparison to the source you provided.


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Agreed and, of course, there were more sources there than just NPR.

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Agreed and, of course, there were more sources there than just NPR.

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Think.....today must be a day off for you because of the number of your posts on this thread. If not, what are your students up to?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Think.....today must be a day off for you because of the number of your posts on this thread. If not, what are your students up to?

Ok, so today is "senior skip day," and I've had one student all day (I teach all seniors, and they finish next week).

Interestingly, I used this thread when talking to that one student. His claim—accurately, I think—is that the current political polarization in America drives us to seek sides with our tribes rather than shared experiences and nuance.

He added that he'd recently come across an economics study that showed the correlation between unemployment wage percentages and the speed at which people return to jobs as a relationship between the job they are returning to, both in terms of pay AND emotional fulfillment. Specifically, that people who make great wages and enjoy their jobs will return EVEN IF they can "make more" with supplemental unemployment.

We finished the discussion with an appreciation of nuance and lamentation of its loss.

Good times!

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Ok, so today is "senior skip day," and I've had one student all day (I teach all seniors, and they finish next week).

Interestingly, I used this thread when talking to that one student. His claim—accurately, I think—is that the current political polarization in America drives us to seek sides with our tribes rather than shared experiences and nuance.

He added that he'd recently come across an economics study that showed the correlation between unemployment wage percentages and the speed at which people return to jobs as a relationship between the job they are returning to, both in terms of pay AND emotional fulfillment. Specifically, that people who make great wages and enjoy their jobs will return EVEN IF they can "make more" with supplemental unemployment.

We finished the discussion with an appreciation of nuance and lamentation of its loss.

Good times!

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That’s fine, as far as it goes. It makes sense that people who are well paid and experience emotional fulfillment will return to their jobs. It is also possible that those who do not experience the same positive feelings toward their jobs might, but should not, opt to collect unemployment benefits for as long as they can. Now here is when the argument loses steam, at least for me: it should not be the taxpayers’ responsibility to supplement the incomes of people who CAN work but who choose not to because they can get paid for sitting on their derrières. Nobody can convince me that doing so is proper.

[phoenix]

agree and not when there are 8.1M jobs available. most of those studies that were referenced were when most businesses were shut down in 2020 and there were far fewer jobs available. at least the hospitality business.

[mofn]

A couple of thoughts not being addressed on the subject:
1) Towns in the lakes region have small year round population. Today the
family unit is 0 - 1.27654897 kids. Not when I grew up, I knew of X families w/ 7-8 kids. Local shortage right there.

2) Summer help from "away" teenagers or college students. If both can not use parents/grandparents place cost of housing is now a nonstarter from the get go.

3) The no.2's above, some posters have stated the difference in pay N.H. to Mass...ok. But by staying at home and working... your w/ friends, no food bill, mom does laundry, and someone has put a plate of leftovers in the reefer for you. What is that worth per week to this age group?
Plus do whole families still spend all summer now at the lake as in the past?
If you say no, then work pool is smaller than the past.

4) As for owners looking for help, the 1st principle of capitalism, you have to spend money to make money. You go cheap on proven qualified help you do so at your own risk!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

What’s that I keep hearing about??? Oh yeah, “Confirmation Bias”! It’s clear that “Couch Careers” are alive and well. No BS studies will convince me otherwise.

It's nihilistic (and also unfair) to respond to half a dozen citations with nothing other than "it's clear...no studies will convince me...".

You should post some real studies with real data from real researchers. Otherwise, it's just BS

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Ok, so today is "senior skip day," and I've had one student all day (I teach all seniors, and they finish next week).

Interestingly, I used this thread when talking to that one student
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Senior Skip Day?
My god these kids have been out of school for MONTHS! Why a "Skip day"?

[ApS]

Past...

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's nihilistic (and also unfair) to respond to half a dozen citations with nothing other than "it's clear...no studies will convince me...".

You should post some real studies with real data from real researchers. Otherwise, it's just BS

"Studies" from Universities slavish to grants? From Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, and Google, which practice "Cancel-Culture"? "Shadow-Banning"?

Originally Posted by gillygirl

NPR is rated with a left-center bias which provides highly factual information...hardly a cesspool in comparison to the source you provided.

"Rated left-center bias=highly factual information".

It is to laugh!

"Left-center" bias is strong. Not unlike "Full-Leftist" bias, NPR won't advise you of Tony Bobulinski and a certain laptop. 'Shame that I am forced to help pay for NPR's "facts" and "highly factual information".
https://art19.com/shows/the-dershow/...a-9a3c592868b5

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by tis

Think, I hate to disagree but I do. I am sure you don't believe every study you read. There is no question if some, and I do say SOME people, can be paid not to work they will take advantage of it. Some have pride and would not take tax money unless it was absolutely necessary but others have no problem with it.

I suspect it has some impact too. But I think the shortage is a combination of a lot of things as discussed by the owners of Hart’s. Crack down on immigration, attractive unemployment, nervousness still to COVID, and reassessment of life, career, school etc.

Like for example some schools didn’t let the kids go hone for spring break because that just added exposure to the schools. There might be incentives to stay on campus at some colleges for the summer.

As far as nervousness goes, we are NOT out of the woods yet until India is solved. COVID could mutate (if it hasn’t already) and the whole thing could happen all over again in a few months. All countries need to step up and help India in any way they can.

Also the dopes that won’t get vaccinated in the USA puts things at risk too.

So a lot of the population knows that it’s still potentially risky working in public and can afford to stay self locked down until it’s really over.

Another good point made in the link was cost of housing. The owners already subsidized rent BEFORE COVID hit. And we all know how sky high property is getting around the lakes. It wasn’t all college kids filling these jobs. But the ones that are not college bound can’t afford to like in the area.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ApS

Past...

"Studies" from Universities slavish to grants? From Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, and Google, which practice "Cancel-Culture"? "Shadow-Banning"?

"Rated left-center bias=highly factual information".

It is to laugh!

"Left-center" bias is strong. Not unlike "Full-Leftist" bias, NPR won't advise you of Tony Bobulinski and a certain laptop. 'Shame that I am forced to help pay for NPR's "facts" and "highly factual information".

https://art19.com/shows/the-dershow/...a-9a3c592868b5

Your response is Dershowitz and Carlson? Bwaaahaaahaaahaaa! Thanks for the laugh.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's nihilistic (and also unfair) to respond to half a dozen citations with nothing other than "it's clear...no studies will convince me...".

You should post some real studies with real data from real researchers. Otherwise, it's just BS

And I also believe the earth is flat….

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by ApS

Past...


"Studies" from Universities slavish to grants? From Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, and Google, which practice "Cancel-Culture"? "Shadow-Banning"?


"Rated left-center bias=highly factual information".

It is to laugh!

"Left-center" bias is strong. Not unlike "Full-Leftist" bias, NPR won't advise you of Tony Bobulinski and a certain laptop. 'Shame that I am forced to help pay for NPR's "facts" and "highly factual information".
https://art19.com/shows/the-dershow/...a-9a3c592868b5

Well I listened to the link you provided to the Dershow, because I generally think he is an intelligent guy, but I had to quit when he referred to the Tucker Carlton guest as "the witness". Now, maybe it was a slip of the tongue, or maybe it was a mindset. But he just blew up his credibility on this issue.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Your response is Dershowitz and Carlson? Bwaaahaaahaaahaaa! Thanks for the laugh.

It was not my intent to demonstrate "Confirmation-Bias", but thanks for doing so.

[phoenix]

the town of Moultonboro has posted summer openings for things like cemetery mowing . I Will be interested if they get any bites as this is outdoors

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by phoenix

the town of Moultonboro has posted summer openings for things like cemetery mowing . I Will be interested if they get any bites as this is outdoors

They will also be posting (if they have not already) two FT office positions.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ApS

It was not my intent to demonstrate "Confirmation-Bias", but thanks for doing so.

Not really. My sources are news organizations, not talking heads who are pandering to their base. Nice try though.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Not really. My sources are news organizations, not talking heads who are pandering to their base. Nice try though.

It was not my intent to illuminate the "personalize and polarize" portion of Rule #13, but thanks for doing so.

[CatLady]

It is affordable work force housing that keeps more young people from working in our tourist industry. Where will they live that is anywhere near these jobs? How will they find any childcare, much less afford it, to be anywhere near work? It is not "lazy" young people; there are plenty of willing people to work, and there will always be those who will avoid work.

[CatLady]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Senior Skip Day?
My god these kids have been out of school for MONTHS! Why a "Skip day"?

Probably tradition, which these kids have had very little of for the last two years; A little rebellion as they go out into the world.

[CK5 Truck]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I don't think anyone is saying they should all make the same amount of money but we keep asking on here "why are we paying people more money not to work than to go to work"?
Maybe the answer is to pay people that want to work more money.

Maybe the answer is to not pay people who dont want to work ANYTHING! Starvation and having their smartphone shut off for non payment might be just the motivation to get their lazy asses off the couch!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Senior Skip Day?
My god these kids have been out of school for MONTHS! Why a "Skip day"?

My students may not have been in the building full-time all year, but they certainly worked hard. In fact, in easily the most challenging year of my 16 years (so far), we only missed one unit of my curriculum. I was very pleased with this year's classes, so, yes, a skip day to hang out with schoolmates after most were vaccinated was perfect.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by CatLady

It is affordable work force housing that keeps more young people from working in our tourist industry. Where will they live that is anywhere near these jobs? How will they find any childcare, much less afford it, to be anywhere near work? It is not "lazy" young people; there are plenty of willing people to work, and there will always be those who will avoid work.

Exactly. The only housing available is people who own housing full time or have parents who own. Almost impossible to hire a kid from out of the area for a summer job. So with a small full time population, and a huge summer influx of labor demand...

[Biggd]

You sound like a painter, one who paints everyone with the same brush.

Originally Posted by CK5 Truck

Maybe the answer is to not pay people who dont want to work ANYTHING! Starvation and having their smartphone shut off for non payment might be just the motivation to get their lazy asses off the couch!

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[CK5 Truck]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

This is a great story, and I'm sure your daughter is terrific. But she is not working for minimum wage, she's working for minimum wage plus tips.

The minimum wage rules do not apply to people who earn tips. So when we're talking about the minimum wage going to $10/hour, we're talking about folks who work as untipped employees, such as cooks and dishwashers.

As I'm sure some of our restaurant pros have seen, waiters and waitresses have done pretty well over the years with income. Every time the price of meals goes up, their tips go up. But kitchen staff, who do not earn tips, have seen their earning power decline.

Point is make yourself more valuable, no matter what the position, no matter what the job. Im sure there are plenty of people in the waitstaff position that make minimum tips. People that walk in off the street with zero experience and a chip on their shoulders because they dont get offered a 6 figure salary are dillusional and a product of the "everyone deserves a trophy" generation...its the parents and in some cases lack of parenting that have caused these issues...prove me wrong...

[Biggd]

Like I said, you paint everyone with the same brush. I'm 67 and I know many good parents that didn't coddle their kids. Some came out well rounded and some didn't so it's not anything the parents did wrong. You keep patting yourself on the back for being the perfect parent.

Originally Posted by CK5 Truck

Point is make yourself more valuable, no matter what the position, no matter what the job. Im sure there are plenty of people in the waitstaff position that make minimum tips. People that walk in off the street with zero experience and a chip on their shoulders because they dont get offered a 6 figure salary are dillusional and a product of the "everyone deserves a trophy" generation...its the parents and in some cases lack of parenting that have caused these issues...prove me wrong...

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Like I said, you paint everyone with the same brush. I'm 67 and I know many good parents that didn't coddle their kids. Some came out well rounded and some didn't so it's not anything the parents did wrong. You keep patting yourself on the back for being the perfect parent.

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Agreed. My 11-year-old spent most of today raking and weed whacking another site here at camp and almost every senior I teach comes in Monday AM with the lamest weekend stories because they all worked them away.

Like people not returning to work because they can "make more on unemployment," there are some lazy kids, but not nearly as many as the narrative.

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[phoenix]

interesting article in the Journal today. Northern New England ( Ver/ NH and Maine) has 3.6 job openings for every 1 job seeker.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by phoenix

well i guess we will get a good example soon as 21 states will eliminate the added benefit and offer a substantial bonus if they go back to work including NH

WSJ reported yesterday that Missouri, the first state to cut additional unemployment benefits, "saw an uptick in applications." Looking at the graph (which shares the same slope as the US on the whole) and anecdotal evidence presented (interviews with two employers with mixed results), it certainly doesn't appear as clear as they make it sound, so it'll be interesting to see future reports from other states.

Side note: the governor's office website has NH unemployment as of a week ago at 2.5%. That certainly doesn't sound like a problem with people "staying on the government dole," so what gives with the "hard to find help" narrative?

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ame...ts-11624786202

https://www.governor.nh.gov/news-and...nt-rate-nation

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[Biggd]

Went for my yearly physical yesterday and my doctor told me he was going to retire because he couldn't get any help. He said he just couldn't work around the clock anymore like when he was younger. He said Covid has made his decision much easier.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

WSJ reported yesterday that Missouri, the first state to cut additional unemployment benefits, "saw an uptick in applications." Looking at the graph (which shares the same slope as the US on the whole) and anecdotal evidence presented (interviews with two employers with mixed results), it certainly doesn't appear as clear as they make it sound, so it'll be interesting to see future reports from other states.

Side note: the governor's office website has NH unemployment as of a week ago at 2.5%. That certainly doesn't sound like a problem with people "staying on the government dole," so what gives with the "hard to find help" narrative?

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ame...ts-11624786202

https://www.governor.nh.gov/news-and...nt-rate-nation

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Unemployment numbers are a very confusing mess and not indicative of much except to watch the trend if they are increasing or declining.

But as a legitimate measure of percentage of people working or not and any organizations ability to attract and retain staff, they are virtual worthless numbers.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by phoenix

interesting article in the Journal today. Northern New England ( Ver/ NH and Maine) has 3.6 job openings for every 1 job seeker.

A local (to me) sub-pizza-sandwich shop has had a sign up for weeks offering $14 Hr starting pay for counter help, and from what I can see few takers.

Very few people I see seem interested in working in any retail or labor positions.

Lots of people wanting to rise up the ladder to manager status in little time and hold positions with titles like influencer, director, chief, ETC Etc etc,,,

Dont know anyones kids looking to become a plumber, electrician, welder, plumber, machinist, mechanic, barber/hairdresser, cook (not chef), accountant, nurse or even doctor. Its seems that business management is (and management being the key term) is what most are seeking.

After 40 years in the workforce, if I had the opportunity to go back in time and do it all over again, I would do ANYTHING but business management!

Looks like we will soon have a society of bosses and no workers, and when you need a trades person you will pay them double per hour than what you make and at the end of the day and on weekends they will be the ones with their feet up and enjoying life while the business folks will be answering emails 24 hrs a day and reviewing reports and presentations on weekends and holidays.

Not better,,,

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

A local (to me) sub-pizza-sandwich shop has had a sign up for weeks offering $14 Hr starting pay for counter help, and from what I can see few takers.

Very few people I see seem interested in working in any retail or labor positions.

Lots of people wanting to rise up the ladder to manager status in little time and hold positions with titles like influencer, director, chief, ETC Etc etc,,,

Dont know anyones kids looking to become a plumber, electrician, welder, plumber, machinist, mechanic, barber/hairdresser, cook (not chef), accountant, nurse or even doctor. Its seems that business management is (and management being the key term) is what most are seeking.

After 40 years in the workforce, if I had the opportunity to go back in time and do it all over again, I would do ANYTHING but business management!

Looks like we will soon have a society of bosses and no workers, and when you need a trades person you will pay them double per hour than what you make and at the end of the day and on weekends they will be the ones with their feet up and enjoying life while the business folks will be answering emails 24 hrs a day and reviewing reports and presentations on weekends and holidays.

Not better,,,

My grandson, just out of college, started a job in Business management just a week ago. We'll we were at a cookout on Saturday and he was getting call after call. He said I thought I was just working 9-5 M-F.
It's unfortunate but there really aren't many jobs that are 9-5 anymore, esp when they give you a cell phone. That should be a clue right there that you are on call 24/7.

[thinkxingu]

Oh! Did anyone see the Dunkin' sign in Meredith center last week? $1000 sign-on bonus! Crazy.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Oh! Did anyone see the Dunkin' sign in Meredith center last week? $1000 sign-on bonus! Crazy.

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And all the coffee and donuts you can eat?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Biggd

It's unfortunate but there really aren't any jobs that are 9-5 anymore

Sure there are, but they are in specific industries and mostly labor fields.

Most factory worker are on very fixed schedules, but then so are banks and other white collar organizations, but those are usually reserved for people either willing to do labor, or or legitimately have the the higher skills and capabilities OR connections.

For the masses following each-other in the line, its a whole new ball game and one not very personally rewarding.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Unemployment numbers are a very confusing mess and not indicative of much except to watch the trend if they are increasing or declining.

But as a legitimate measure of percentage of people working or not and any organizations ability to attract and retain staff, they are virtual worthless numbers.

In this case, they are determining how many individuals in each area are collecting UE compensation.
The thought process is as the compensation amount declines, those individuals will instead seek active employment.
Since the number actually collecting is low, businesses do not expect an on-rush of applicants.

Oddly, it isn't a labor issue, it is a demand issue.