M’boro Dump Disaster

[Sue Doe-Nym]

We just went to the Moultonborough dump for the first time in six months, and couldn’t believe the gyrations they’re going through to be “safe”. This is a beautiful sunny day with slight breeze, and everyone (employees) is wearing a mask 😷, which is probably for feel good purposes, BUT the kicker is that four vehicles at a time are allowed to proceed through the quickly building lines of cars. Ken is directing everyone through this overly cautious process...JMO, of course. This weekend will be just plain horrendous there.....maybe there will be traffic back up all the way to rt.25! This whole thing has gone off the rails. If you have to go, take a snack and some good reading material. 🙄
Happy Memorial Day to all 🛶🚤⛴🇺🇸

[phoenix]

thx for the heads up

[Lakegeezer]

It is likely that over the weekend there will be several people that are contagious without symptoms using the dump. Would you like to be throwing your trash in the bin while next to them? Can you identify them? Can they be sure of you? Do you feel lucky? Keep your distance AND wear your mask! It won't be forever and hopefully soon, effective treatments will mean its not as risky to catch it.

[RockHopster]

We should not scorn those that will not wear masks in close contact situations in public. We owe them a debt of gratitude. Thank you for thinning the herd.

[farechofisherman]

Seriously!?

[DickR]

While times of peak usage will see annoyingly long backups of vehicles waiting to unload, only four at a time are allowed up at the unload zone, spaced well apart. At any particular time, half of those are at their vehicles getting stuff out to bring over to the compactor bin. That leaves perhaps two people throwing stuff into the compactor bin or about to do so, and from what I've seen the other one or occasionally two about to approach the bin do indeed wait politely the few seconds it takes for the person at the bin to dump and move away before going the last ten feet to the bin. Everyone cooperates. Given the low percentage of the general populace that actually has the virus, times the very low percentage of the infected ones who might actually being going to the dump right when you do, times the fairly low likelihood of picking up the virus from someone close by for a few seconds while outdoors, with air moving around to dilute things even more, the actual chance of your picking up the virus during a trip to the dump is extremely low. You could be more at risk of having a car accident while driving to the dump. Nothing in life is risk-free, but it's not good to worry excessively about things with an exceedingly low chance of happening.

[phoenix]

It will remind me not to go Sunday afternoon in the summer as it will be backed up to moultonboro center

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

It is likely that over the weekend there will be several people that are contagious without symptoms using the dump. Would you like to be throwing your trash in the bin while next to them? Can you identify them? Can they be sure of you? Do you feel lucky? Keep your distance AND wear your mask! It won't be forever and hopefully soon, effective treatments will mean its not as risky to catch it.

Thank You !

Sadly, there are those who deem all of this as some sort of minor illness. That this does not happen here. That it is some place else.

Maybe it is time to give the Recycling Center employees the dignity and respect that they are entitled to. Their lives and their families lives are just as important as the customers lives.

Time for some to stop thinking about themselves only !

[FlyingScot]

All clear at Tuftonboro Transfer today

[mishman]

With summer here, Selectmen should open transfer station on Tuesdays again to spread out the traffic over another day. While it won't eliminate the backups due to Covid precautions, it should ease them somewhat. I am all for protecting workers and citizens from accidentally catching this disease.

[secondcurve]

Mishman

Does anyone catch this disease on purpose?

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Mishman

Does anyone catch this disease on purpose?

Well yes they do. They refuse to social distance , they won’t wear a mask , they complain about any inconvenience, and they catch the disease on purpose , and ignorance.

[tummyman]

Originally Posted by mishman

With summer here, Selectmen should open transfer station on Tuesdays again to spread out the traffic over another day. While it won't eliminate the backups due to Covid precautions, it should ease them somewhat. I am all for protecting workers and citizens from accidentally catching this disease.

M'boro has already reinstated Tuesday openings after a short temporary closing a few weeks ago. Still closed Wed. and Thurs. plus 1/2 day on Sunday as per usual. The current backlog situation could be significantly improved by increasing the cars unloading from 4 to 6 cars...a 50% increase. Simple to do. Plenty of room. And the staff should reinforce the need for masks on everyone with a few bold signs posted. Need to rectify things before someone gets seriously injured in the backup line on Holland St. Police were there on Holland St. Sunday afternoon because of the backup and people driving on the wrong side of the road headed towards Sandwich.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by tummyman

M'boro has already reinstated Tuesday openings after a short temporary closing a few weeks ago. Still closed Wed. and Thurs. plus 1/2 day on Sunday as per usual. The current backlog situation could be significantly improved by increasing the cars unloading from 4 to 6 cars...a 50% increase. Simple to do. Plenty of room. And the staff should reinforce the need for masks on everyone with a few bold signs posted. Need to rectify things before someone gets seriously injured in the backup line on Holland St. Police were there on Holland St. Sunday afternoon because of the backup and people driving on the wrong side of the road headed towards Sandwich.

The situation is covered here:

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Well yes they do. They refuse to social distance , they won’t wear a mask , they complain about any inconvenience, and they catch the disease on purpose , and ignorance.

Never mind all of the "sick" folks coming from out of state.
Have only met one couple who actually self-quarantined.

Never mind the young adults with no masks. Oh . . . it's not an order. OK.

[coolyourjets]

I’d like to understand why it’s such a big deal to some to wear a mask...outside of your freedom not to do it. Those who say they don’t want government intrusion lose that argument by registering their cars and boat. Wearing their seatbelt, not holding their phone and driving under 100 mph to the dump. Seriously, what is so hard about this???


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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

Those who say they don’t want government intrusion lose that argument by registering their cars and boat.


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Since when is registering vehicles a “government intrusion”?

There is a difference between being privileged enough to be able to own and register your vehicles and being a scofflaw, rebel that uses his energy to avoid doing so.
Wearing a mask is a “suggestion” that some believe does not protect nor prevent one from giving/getting an exposure. Big difference and not surprising you cannot understand it.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Since when is registering vehicles a “government intrusion”?

There is a difference between being privileged enough to be able to own and register your vehicles and being a scofflaw, rebel that uses his energy to avoid doing so.
Wearing a mask is a “suggestion” that some believe does not protect nor prevent one from giving/getting an exposure. Big difference and not surprising you cannot understand it.

Not surprising? You don't know me. Search through this forum and you'll see any number of posts stating that people do not agree with wearing a mask and many for the simple fact that it infringes on their civil liberties. Based on CDC recommendations, whether you believe a mask works or not, you're factually or potentially aiding community health by wearing one. The point was that there are many other things that infringe on civil liberties, like wearing a seatbelt...etc. So the question is, outside of an intrusion of one's civil liberties, why would you not wear one?

[Susie Cougar]

Because they’re all just crybabies who have to have their own way.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

Not surprising? You don't know me. Search through this forum and you'll see any number of posts stating that people do not agree with wearing a mask and many for the simple fact that it infringes on their civil liberties. Based on CDC recommendations, whether you believe a mask works or not, you're factually or potentially aiding community health by wearing one. The point was that there are many other things that infringe on civil liberties, like wearing a seatbelt...etc. So the question is, outside of an intrusion of one's civil liberties, why would you not wear one?

In my unscientific and not supported with anything but my limited observation, it seems the mask wearing shows the divide in the country. I think the more one supports the current President, the more anti mask he or she is. The biggest proponents of mask wearing are the most opposed to the current President. Maybe this is just what I see, though, and there is more to it.

[Major]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

Not surprising? You don't know me. Search through this forum and you'll see any number of posts stating that people do not agree with wearing a mask and many for the simple fact that it infringes on their civil liberties. Based on CDC recommendations, whether you believe a mask works or not, you're factually or potentially aiding community health by wearing one. The point was that there are many other things that infringe on civil liberties, like wearing a seatbelt...etc. So the question is, outside of an intrusion of one's civil liberties, why would you not wear one?

NH has different community standards than the rest of the country. In NH, adults don't have to wear seat belts. In NH, adults don't have to wear helmets on motorcycles. Any right not reserved to the Federal government is ceded to the States. Like it or not, NH used to have a more libertarian bent to how it is governed. This is changing though with the influx of people moving here from blue states. Not wearing a mask is a natural extension of this libertarian bent.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

NH has different community standards than the rest of the country. In NH, adults don't have to wear seat belts. In NH, adults don't have to wear helmets on motorcycles. Any right not reserved to the Federal government is ceded to the States. Like it or not, NH used to have a more libertarian bent to how it is governed. This is changing though with the influx of people moving here from blue states. Not wearing a mask is a natural extension of this libertarian bent.

Big difference between seatbelts/helmets and masks. Your seatbelt use does not impact your neighbors' safety

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Big difference between seatbelts/helmets and masks. Your seatbelt use does not impact your neighbors' safety

No difference at all. I'll be sure to stay away from my neighbor, and he has the freedom to stay away from me.

I have some first hand research on wearing masks in Boston. I have begun working from my office in Boston three days a week (Tuesday-Thursday). I walk from my apartment in Cambridge to my office, which is approximately 2.5 miles. Most people are wearing masks. (I wear a bandana so that I can breathe through my nose easier.) However, it appears that a very important demographic appears to be exempt from wearing masks -- homeless people. Walking along Cambridge Street where a lot of homeless people hang out near the Old West Church, and about 15 or so bums were there and not one of them were wearing masks. Went to lunch, same thing. Maybe I should dress the part so I can get a free pass too?!

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Major

about 15 or so bums were there and not one of them were wearing masks. Went to lunch, same thing. Maybe I should dress the part so I can get a free pass too?!

Or maybe you should give them a mask.

They're poor, you're not.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Major

NH has different community standards than the rest of the country. In NH, adults don't have to wear seat belts. In NH, adults don't have to wear helmets on motorcycles. Any right not reserved to the Federal government is ceded to the States. Like it or not, NH used to have a more libertarian bent to how it is governed. This is changing though with the influx of people moving here from blue states. Not wearing a mask is a natural extension of this libertarian bent.

What is the traditional NH libertarian position on vaccination? The state mandates vaccination for K-12. In a recent year NH had a school vaccination rate of about 95% with less than 500 children in the entire state exempted for religious reasons.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

What is the traditional NH libertarian position on vaccination? The state mandates vaccination for K-12. In a recent year NH had a school vaccination rate of about 95% with less than 500 children in the entire state exempted for religious reasons.

I'm certainly no expert on vaccination. My guess is that a libertarian would take the position that a parent is free to vaccinate or not vaccinate. My (child's) body, my choice.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Major

I'm certainly no expert on vaccination. My guess is that a libertarian would take the position that a parent is free to vaccinate or not vaccinate. My (child's) body, my choice.

I believe you are correct. But there is a logical disconnect between claiming that NH is “different” with its traditional libertarian bent when the vast majority of parents in NH choose to vaccinate their children. They chose this because they understand that vaccinating makes medical and scientific sense.

There is a clear medical consensus that wearing a mask DOES decrease the risk of transmitting Covid 19 to others.

So protecting children from dying from whooping cough is OK but protecting the over 20% of NH vulnerable residents is against libertarian principles?

If you don’t want to wear a mask, then don’t; but justifying it
because of traditional NH libertarian principles seems a bit of a stretch.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I believe you are correct. But there is a logical disconnect between claiming that NH is “different” with its traditional libertarian bent when the vast majority of parents in NH choose to vaccinate their children. They chose this because they understand that vaccinating makes medical,and scientific sense.

There is a clear medical consensus that wearing a mask DOES decrease the risk of transmitting Covid 19 to others.

So protecting children from dying from whooping cough Is OK but protecting the over 20% of NH vulnerable residents is against libertarian principles.

If you don’t want to wear a mask, then don’t; but justifying it
because of traditional NH libertarian principles seems a bit of a stretch.

Your position lives or dies with the statement "a clear medical consensus that wearing a mask DOES decrease the risk of transmitting [the Chinese coronavirus] to others." I disagree with this statement. I chose to believe Dr. Fraud's first position on masks. Let's be frank, there is no science behind any of this. We are making it up as we go. It seems to me we got this wrong. We forced healthy people to shutter in place. And we've failed to protect the most vulnerable. Anyway, I disagree with all of this nonsense, and I suspect history will be on my side when all this is said and done.

[Newbiesaukee]

I hope when history is written you are correct and many people do not die unnecessarily.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

What is the traditional NH libertarian position on vaccination? The state mandates vaccination for K-12. In a recent year NH had a school vaccination rate of about 95% with less than 500 children in the entire state exempted for religious reasons.

Please don't turn a thread about the M'boro dump into a discussion about vaccinations. Start a new thread!

[Newbiesaukee]

I was actually continuing the ongoing discussion of the use of masks at the dump using vaccination as an example.

I do appreciate all you do and will not pursue this. Sorry if this seemed disruptive to the thread.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Major

Your position lives or dies with the statement "a clear medical consensus that wearing a mask DOES decrease the risk of transmitting [the Chinese coronavirus] to others." I disagree with this statement. I chose to believe Dr. Fraud's first position on masks. Let's be frank, there is no science behind any of this. We are making it up as we go. It seems to me we got this wrong. We forced healthy people to shutter in place. And we've failed to protect the most vulnerable. Anyway, I disagree with all of this nonsense, and I suspect history will be on my side when all this is said and done.

You really are a legend in your own mind!

[Major]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

You really are a legend in your own mind!

How’s that? I have a different opinion than you.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Anyway, I disagree with all of this nonsense, and I suspect history will be on my side when all this is said and done.

This is pretty funny coming from you. Just a short while ago you were telling us that this is no worse than the flu or H1N1. We are now at or closing in on 3X typical flu deaths and 10X the H1N1 deaths.

And that's after the COVID-19 number have been held down by what you described as overreacting

[Major]

U.S. numbers are inflated. Total deaths worldwide are within the range of H1N1.


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[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Major

U.S. numbers are inflated. Total deaths worldwide are within the range of H1N1.

Of course they are. This is nothing but a worldwide left wing conspiracy to hijack the November election. Don't believe the Johns Hopkins data. They're in on it too! And all those front line healthcare workers aren't putting their asses on the line? They're just looking for glory. Thank God for people like Major to keep us on the straight and narrow.

[Major]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Of course they are. This is nothing but a worldwide left wing conspiracy to hijack the November election. Don't believe the Johns Hopkins data. They're in on it too! And all those front line healthcare workers aren't putting their asses on the line? They're just looking for glory. Thank God for people like Major to keep us on the straight and narrow.

Just an observation, are healthcare workers at LRGH putting their asses on the line? Our approach to solving this existential threat resulted essentially in LRGH closing.

I have never said that Chinese coronavirus shouldn't be ignored. I have an issue with our approach. The damage caused to our economy and the economic and mental health issues resulting from the shut down will far outweigh the damage caused by the virus. The average age of a Chinese coronavirus death is 82. The numbers are vastly inflated. I read that a person who died of alcohol poisoning (0.4 BAC) had Chinese coronavirus and was deemed a Chinese coronavirus death. John Glenn's wife, who was 100, deemed a Chinese coronavirus death. They aren't keeping track of influenza deaths since the onset of this event. They are just being lumped into the Chinese coronavirus deaths. 2020 was supposed to be a bad influenza year -- 30,000 to 65,000 deaths.

The goal posts are moving. We were told we need to "flatten the curve." We were concerned of overwhelming the hospitals. There is no evidence that shutting down the economy helped to "flatten the curve." Some studies show it would have flattened anyway. Regardless, it is now "flattened." The hospitals were never overrun. In fact, as with LRGH, hospitals are laying off doctors and nurses in unprecedented numbers. New York didn't take advantage of increased hospital space but instead chose to endanger our most vulnerable citizens. Our solution has actually harmed our healthcare system. So instead of opening up the economy full throttle, we are now being told that we need to ease into reopening, with the strong likelihood that things will be shut down again in the fall.

Our political and local leaders are experiencing a HUGE power trip by being able to tell the unwashed what to do. I live in Long Bay, and our Board made the decision that we can't use the beaches. Our leaders are getting off on this. Treating us like children. We should be ashamed.

Is it so farfetched that there could have been another approach? That instead of telling healthy people to stay home, we instead focused on the most vulnerable to keep them healthy? I don't understand why we can't have a healthy debate on the issue.

[Biggd]

Another thread derailed to political agenda.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Another thread derailed to political agenda.

I disagree. Nothing political at all. We are debating the efficacy of masks and the Chinese coronavirus in general. I have liberal friends who believe this is BS and conservative friends (all older by the way so they are not concerned about working or making money) who believe in quarantining.

[garysanfran]

If a particle is in the air, any barrier, of any kind, even a Kleenex barrier will have efficacy of some proportion.

You're arguing over this?

So, what's happening at the transfer stations?

[Major]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

So, what's happening at the transfer stations?

At the Laconia Transfer Station, no masks are required, thankfully.

[rsmlp]

To even suggest that masks are not efficacious in reducing the spread of a VIRUS is either utterly stupid or ignorant-you pick.

[Major]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

To even suggest that masks are not efficacious in reducing the spread of a VIRUS is either utterly stupid or ignorant-you pick.

I am merely relying on Dr. Fraud's first statement regarding the efficacy of mask.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I am merely relying on Dr. Fraud's first statement regarding the efficacy of mask.

Why do they even wear them in hospitals if they are not effective?

[Jan]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

To even suggest that masks are not efficacious in reducing the spread of a VIRUS is either utterly stupid or ignorant-you pick.

Fauci on masks just 2 months ago. Was he utterly stupid or just ignorant?:

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Why do then even wear them in hospitals if they are not effective?

I guess to protect doctors. However, patients don't wear them. I've had several operations and never had to wear a mask. You would have to concede that a person walking next to you at a grocery store is a far cry from a doctor or a dentist placing their head within a foot or so from a patient's body. It's apples and oranges.

I've used the comparison before, but masks are merely a feel good measure, much like metal detectors at airports.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Jan

Fauci on masks just 2 months ago. Was he utterly stupid or just ignorant?:

I was looking for that! The left is now saying that Dr. Fraud was taken out of context. Just like Joe Biden with Charlemagne tha god. You can't make this stuff up. Rewriting history as we speak.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I was looking for that! The left is now saying that Dr. Fraud was taken out of context. Just like Joe Biden with Charlemagne tha god. You can't make this stuff up. Rewriting history as we speak.

I'm surprised you believe anything this doctor says but that's the "cherry picking" process going on here.
At the time that he said that there was a shortage of N95 masks and he was trying to prevent a run on them to protect the supply for doctors and nurses.

[Garcia]

An explanation of the mask controversy and Dr. Fauci's conflicting advice.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/ou...ut-of-context/

No masks at my dump, but no lines, crowds, or workers either. My feeling is the more people wear them, the quicker things reopen. I'm willing to do so, even if it is the government telling me what to do. The alternative of protesting, not wearing one, and getting upset about it seems counter productive to what I want - more things to open back up. In an area like the Lakes Region that draws in lots of people from all over, I would think businesses, people in the hospitality trade, and anyone who wants things to open up quickly would be wearing masks and encouraging others to do so. Anything to prevent a spike occurring in July or August, leading to things closing back up again.

As to the traffic backup described, it does seem like expanding hours, encouraging more efficiency (my dump can be a place where people linger), and looking at ways to streamline the process would be beneficial.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm surprised you believe anything this doctor says but that's the "cherry picking" process going on here.
At the time that he said that there was a shortage of N95 masks and he was trying to prevent a run on them to protect the supply for doctors and nurses.

I don't believe anything he says. That's the point. He's a lifelong government hack whose best interest is to create hysteria among the masses. The NIAID will have no shortage of funding for the next twenty years because of this nonsense.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by Major

I don't believe anything he says. That's the point. He's a lifelong government hack whose best interest is to create hysteria among the masses. The NIAID will have no shortage of funding for the next twenty years because of this nonsense.

Major seems to think everyone in government is involved in a massive plot to subvert our rights . This guy can’t be legit. No one could have views this off base.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Major seems to think everyone in government is involved in a massive plot to subvert our rights . This guy can’t be legit. No one could have views this off base.

When is the last time a right was taken away or a government power expanded and it was later reversed?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I don't believe anything he says. That's the point. He's a lifelong government hack whose best interest is to create hysteria among the masses. The NIAID will have no shortage of funding for the next twenty years because of this nonsense.

Of course you don't!
You don't believe anything that doesn't fit your agenda.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Major

I am merely relying on Dr. Fraud's first statement regarding the efficacy of mask.

If you call him "Dr. Fraud", why are you taking his advice?

I think he was lying and trying to preserve the supply for healthcare workers, avoiding a hoarding.

I believe he was intentionally dishonest in this one regard.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Of course you don't!
You don't believe anything that doesn't fit your agenda.

And YOU DO? Come on...

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Major

I don't believe anything he says. That's the point. He's a lifelong government hack whose best interest is to create hysteria among the masses. The NIAID will have no shortage of funding for the next twenty years because of this nonsense.

Absolutely...and Gates is his "bird of a feather"

[Major]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Major seems to think everyone in government is involved in a massive plot to subvert our rights . This guy can’t be legit. No one could have views this off base.

I believe and live every word that I have written. And the dirty little secret is that most of America believes as I do. We are a silent majority.

[Susie Cougar]

The coronavirus is something brand new that we have never had experience with before. Like anything else, the more information we get, the better decisions and choices we can make.
Two months ago, it was uncertain how the virus was being transmitted. The thought, at that time, was that it was most likely that if we touch something that someone else touched who was infected and didn’t wash our hands and then touched our face , we would get the virus.
Now, after being able to study this virus for over two months, we are being told that it is transmitted by droplets in the air that we are expelling as we are breathing as well as talking.
I don’t understand why people are still debating at this point whether or not we should be wearing masks. The people that choose not to follow recommendations at this point are the ones that are causing the economy to be in the terrible condition that it is in.

[Major]

This is beginning to feel like a social experiment gone awry.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

The people that choose not to follow recommendations at this point are the ones that are causing the economy to be in the terrible condition that it is in.

I think this statement is patently wrong. The economy wouldn't be in terrible condition if we didn't intentionally destroy it. Heard immunity seems like a much better approach. As previously stated, this is a disastrous social experiment.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

I don't understand why we can't have a healthy debate on the issue.

That would require you sticking to some reasonable definition of reality.

You have steadily downplayed/underestimated the impact and danger of COVID-19, and you toss off stuff like "the numbers are inflated" as facts, when the majority of experts believe that the numbers are actually undercounted.

Then you toss in stuff like the response is causing the shutdown of LRGH, completely ignoring numerous reports of years' of mismanagement and losses.

I think you do better when you stick to your real concern--that Trump is the most conservative President in your lifetime (by your definition), so you support him no matter what.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You have steadily downplayed/underestimated the impact and danger of COVID-19, and you toss off stuff like "the numbers are inflated" as facts, when the majority of experts believe that the numbers are actually undercounted.

Are these the same experts who told us there was nothing to worry about at the beginning, like Dr. Fraud. And there is documented evidence that the numbers ARE vastly inflated.

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Then you toss in stuff like the response is causing the shutdown of LRGH, completely ignoring numerous reports of years' of mismanagement and losses.

If that's the case why are other hospitals across America laying off doctors and nurses at record numbers? LRGH failed because politicians essentially shut it down, which was the last straw. Yes it was mismanaged, but let's not pretend that our overreaction to this so-called crisis did not contribute and directly cause LRGH's collapse.

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I think you do better when you stick to your real concern--that Trump is the most conservative President in your lifetime (by your definition), so you support him no matter what.

I have no worries about our great President being reelected. This nonsense all but assures it.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Major

Are these the same experts who told us there was nothing to worry about at the beginning, like Dr. Fraud. And there is documented evidence that the numbers ARE vastly inflated.

If that's the case why are other hospitals across America laying off doctors and nurses at record numbers? LRGH failed because politicians essentially shut it down, which was the last straw. Yes it was mismanaged, but let's not pretend that our overreaction to this so-called crisis did not contribute and directly cause LRGH's collapse.

I have no worries about our great President being reelected. This nonsense all but assures it.

Major, thank you for your continued, voice of reason and truth.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

And YOU DO? Come on...

My only agenda is to stay healthy. If that means staying at home or wearing a mask then so be it.
I'm retired so this is no financial burden or civil liberties burden on me.
Do I want things to open back up? Sure I do but safely.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I think this statement is patently wrong. The economy wouldn't be in terrible condition if we didn't intentionally destroy it. Heard immunity seems like a much better approach. As previously stated, this is a disastrous social experiment.

"Heard immunity", "every man for himself", "only the strong will survive", "thinning the heard", It's sad state of affairs that there are people in our country that think this way.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

My only agenda is to stay healthy. If that means staying at home or wearing a mask then so be it.
I'm retired so this is no financial burden or civil liberties burden on me.
Do I want things to open back up? Sure I do but safely.

And there my friends is the rub. I got mine. I'm all set. So what if the life of a guy who spent the last 20 years building a business or career is destroyed in a nanosecond. So what if a young man or woman graduating from college cannot find a job. So what if a person struggling with life for one reason or another is forced not to work and stay at home and becoming more and more depressed. So what if a mother (or in some cases a father) is forced to quit their jobs to stay at home with the children. Let's destroy millions upon millions of lives for let's face it from a statistical standpoint is a really bad (perhaps historically bad) flu year. My dad is 75 and a cancer survivor. My mom is 76 and has advanced COPD. Both would rather sacrifice their lives for fulfillment of their children's and grandchildren's future. They, like me, believe this is nonsense, and completely and utterly selfish of the older generation who is making all of the decisions.

But who cares, I'm financially fine.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Biggd

"Heard immunity", "every man for himself", "only the strong will survive", "thinning the heard", It's sad state of affairs that there are people in our country that think this way.

Many of us think this way. It’s unfortunate that you must have others think for you and protect you and your family. Some would label you a burden on society


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

And there my friends is the rub. I got mine. I'm all set. So what if the life of a guy who spent the last 20 years building a business or career is destroyed in a nanosecond. So what if a young man or woman graduating from college cannot find a job. So what if a person struggling with life for one reason or another is forced not to work and stay at home and becoming more and more depressed. So what if a mother (or in some cases a father) is forced to quit their jobs to stay at home with the children. Let's destroy millions upon millions of lives for let's face it from a statistical standpoint is a really bad (perhaps historically bad) flu year. My dad is 75 and a cancer survivor. My mom is 76 and has advanced COPD. Both would rather sacrifice their lives for fulfillment of their children's and grandchildren's future. They, like me, believe this is nonsense, and completely and utterly selfish of the older generation who is making all of the decisions.

But who cares, I'm financially fine.

I've been around a long time and have been though many tough times. But nice spin!

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

"Heard immunity", "every man for himself", "only the strong will survive", "thinning the heard", It's sad state of affairs that there are people in our country that think this way.

You are describing life. Heard immunity works. (See Sweden.)

In life it is every man for himself. No one owes you a thing. We are not all in this together. Those who have lost their jobs or their businesses have sacrificed more than most. (And do not give me the crack about lives lost. One life is too many, but let's face it if you are relatively young and in decent health it is almost statistically impossible to die from Chinese coronavirus.) Those who have government jobs haven't sacrificed one bit.

In life the strong (whether judged by health, smartness, drive, ambition) do succeed at a higher level.

No one ever said there's a benefit to thinning the herd. That's hyperbole I guess.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Many of us think this way. It’s unfortunate that you must have others think for you and protect you and your family. Some would label you a burden on society


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I'm sure you're labeling me as a burden on society even though I worked and paid my dues to for over 50 years. Yes, it's just disgraceful of me to want to stay healthy.

[Seaplane Pilot]

This judge in Illinois hit the nail on the head:

https://www.thevillagersvoice.com/ju...fternoon-case/

Amen, Judge McHaney.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Major

You are describing life. Heard immunity works. (See Sweden.)

That's just factually incorrect. See below. And they are nowhere close to the goal at the and of May. They are struggling with this and on top of that, they are still not sure that having contracted the disease is a guarantee that a person becomes immune.

Despite its relaxed response, Sweden is nowhere near to hitting that goal. Tests on 1,118 Stockholm residents carried out by Sweden's Public Health Agency over one week in late April showed that only 7.3% had developed the antibodies needed to stave off the disease.

[Major]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

That's just factually incorrect. See below. And they are nowhere close to the goal at the and of May. They are struggling with this and on top of that, they are still not sure that having contracted the disease is a guarantee that a person becomes immune.

Despite its relaxed response, Sweden is nowhere near to hitting that goal. Tests on 1,118 Stockholm residents carried out by Sweden's Public Health Agency over one week in late April showed that only 7.3% had developed the antibodies needed to stave off the disease.

Test conducted in April fail to prove your point. Depending on who reports, Sweden is a success story. I can reference stories touting Sweden's success. I am sure you can find countless stories from leftwing media hacks that Sweden is an all out disaster, people dying in the streets, etc. At the end of the day, Sweden's death rate will most likely mimic the rest of the world, and they didn't destroy their economy to do it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Test conducted in April fail to prove your point. Depending on who reports, Sweden is a success story. I can reference stories touting Sweden's success. I am sure you can find countless stories from leftwing media hacks that Sweden is an all out disaster, people dying in the streets, etc. At the end of the day, Sweden's death rate will most likely mimic the rest of the world, and they didn't destroy their economy to do it.

All the stories from the left are by media hacks but all the stories from the right are from reputable sources, according to you?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

All the stories from the left are by hacks but all the stories from the right are reputable, according to you?

Two words -- "Russian Collusion." I rest my case.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Two words -- "Russian Collusion." I rest my case.

Finally something we agree on. They totally manipulated our election process!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Are these the same experts who told us there was nothing to worry about at the beginning, like Dr. Fraud. And there is documented evidence that the numbers ARE vastly inflated.

I don't remember what Dr Fauci said when. But I do know that the buck stops with the President. He told us very clearly that we would never approach 100,000--something about we have 15 cases, and we're on our way to zero...

Every major news organization is reporting 100,000. I'm sure you don't need me to list them. Even Fox. That you deny this is just bizarre:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-co...l-exceeds-100k

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I don't remember what Dr Fauci said when. But I do know that the buck stops with the President. He told us very clearly that we would never approach 100,000--something about we have 15 cases, and we're on our way to zero...

Every major news organization is reporting 100,000. I'm sure you don't need me to list them. Even Fox. That you deny this is just bizarre:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-co...l-exceeds-100k

"Fake news", "Russian collusion", no one is dying in Sweden.

[garysanfran]

OK masks are now under the dumpster thread...

Went to two hardware stores. They had masks...Made in China.

No thanks...And WTF?