Trail Closure Notice

[VitaBene]

Trail Closure Notice: Please be aware that the Sandwich Sidehillers have been unsuccessful in securing a reroute in the Dinsmore Pond Road area. This means that there is no way to get from Moultonborough to Sandwich Notch at this time via sled.

[Dhuberty24]

Any chance the trails will be open after these next two storms?

[stynx55]

This is unfortunate, but becoming the new norm. Trails are being closed in the lakes region and central NH at an alarming rate.

[VitaBene]

Yes, I would say we will be wide open and grooming after these storms. We are currently "not closed" which means we cannot groom (need 8" base per NH BOT) and we do not recommend riding. Given the early season start, it is important to note that trails through swampy areas are likely not solid. As an indication, last New Year's Eve, I went through the ice on corridor 15 on the Neck near Shaker Jerry Road while grooming!

[VitaBene]

SA link to Sandwich's website with info:
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%...xZvLDPeaEg9OCK

[Shreddy]

Jeez - this is horrible. Appreciate all you guys do but this is getting quickly depressing. Last year it was the powerlines to Wolfeboro, this year it's Sandwich, Ossipee/Tamworth, and more.

Combination of lack of respect by what I would consider very few (even though that's all it takes) and glass jaw society we live in now that get offended by everything.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Jeez - this is horrible. Appreciate all you guys do but this is getting quickly depressing. Last year it was the powerlines to Wolfeboro, this year it's Sandwich, Ossipee/Tamworth, and more.

Combination of lack of respect by what I would consider very few (even though that's all it takes) and glass jaw society we live in now that get offended by everything.

Unfortunately Shreddy, some riders think that because they paid their registration fee they should be able to ride any way they want and make as much noise as they want on the trails. Until these people realize that riding trails on private land is a privilege and not a right and start respecting the property they ride on, we will continue to see more trail closures. Unfortunate but true...

Dan

[RTTOOL]

all this going on just means have to ride north and find a club up there.. its just stupid to fight with these land owner when they are just closed minded......

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

all this going on just means have to ride north and find a club up there.. its just stupid to fight with these land owner when they are just closed minded......

This right here is the reason so many land owners are closing their property. It is not the land owners that are closed minded, it is the few (IMO) that feel that the land they are riding on is theirs to ride on "no matter what"

Those signs that are posted that say "STAY ON TRAIL" mean exactly that... STAY ON THE DAMN TRAIL!

Land owners will typically open just a portion of THEIR land for use by snowmobilers. Not their entire property/fields. This land... say, across the outside border of a hay field, may not be usable to them the following year. It may be so matted down that hay or corn will not grow the way it did the prior years. These land owners made that sacrifice for snowmobilers. So when jerks decide they like the look of that fresh, untouched powder and decide to fly across it for a one time joy ride.... yeah.... stay home jerk!

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Unfortunately Shreddy, some riders think that because they paid their registration fee they should be able to ride any way they want and make as much noise as they want on the trails. Until these people realize that riding trails on private land is a privilege and not a right and start respecting the property they ride on, we will continue to see more trail closures. Unfortunate but true...

Dan

Yep - I don't disagree. I rode with a can when I was very young. Loved the sound of it. Honestly, loved getting into bed at night still being able to hear sleds down at the lake. I will say, you don't hear that anymore (which is probably a positive to most). Times have changed, and it's not only the noise but just the way people ride and where they ride. It's tough nowadays for whatever reason. Everyone can find a reason to be upset and it seems that unless someone's home/land is owned by a fellow snowmobiler then we'll find ourselves in binds going forward.

[RTTOOL]

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

Wow!...So you think the right of the toy purchaser supersedes the rights of the landowner...?? Because I have it I have the right to use it wherever I want??

More and more land is being closed because of idiots who leave their trash buried in the snow, drink excessively and cause problems on the trails, ride off the trails or change their stock exhaust to some kind of "can" that adds absolute ZERO performance gains, too bad if it's loud and annoys landowners, I like it and I want it on my sled! Very selfish and disrespectful way to think if you ask me.

We have to police our own or more and more trails will be closed it's that simple! The local clubs have turned into mediators for us constantly putting out fires that we have created and they can't do it all!

Dan

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

Hopefully you are joking....

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Wow!...So you think the right of the toy purchaser supersedes the rights of the landowner...?? Because I have it I have the right to use it wherever I want??

More and more land is being closed because of idiots who leave their trash buried in the snow, drink excessively and cause problems on the trails, ride off the trails or change their stock exhaust to some kind of "can" that adds absolute ZERO performance gains, too bad if it's loud and annoys landowners, I like it and I want it on my sled! Very selfish and disrespectful way to think if you ask me.

We have to police our own or more and more trails will be closed it's that simple! The local clubs have turned into mediators for us constantly putting out fires that we have created and they can't do it all!

Dan

THIS is very selfish to say trash left behind is from snowobilers when its buried in the snow maybe hikers. and with the cans if they sell it it must be ok. just like all the highbread selds that are here to stay.

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Hopefully you are joking....

NO NOT JOKING ITS THE WAY we all think but afriad to say.

[SAB1]

No, not all ALL of us. I for one am not as misguided as you. Private property is priviledge to use not a right.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

NO NOT JOKING ITS THE WAY we all think but afriad to say.

Dan--it's only Dec 28, but I'm ready to vote for your "privilege not a right" post as the best of the year. Not only did you make an important point, but you managed to inspire those on the opposite side to help you make your case.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

NO NOT JOKING ITS THE WAY we all think but afriad to say.

I honestly don't know what to say except wow... you really are a "tool".

You have proven my point better than I could of ever stated...how unfortunate.

Dan

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I honestly don't know what to say except wow... you really are a "tool".

You have proven my point better than I could of ever stated...how unfortunate.

Dan

Either a tool or a fisherman.

Maybe landowners should put up toll booths.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

As a landowner who allowed the Mount Major Snowmobile Club to create a portion of the Rand Hill Rd trail to pass through my property, albeit a small section of the trail's total length, I can tell you that if anyone using the trail through my property ever told me that it was a right, not a privilege, to ride through my property would find out how quickly my little corner of the road would be closed to snowmobiling.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[RTTOOL]

ok did i piss off the few we have here or should we talk speed limt to piss off the rest....i will let the cat out of the bag soon.

[winni83]

Well. It is RT TROLL.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

As a landowner who allowed the Mount Major Snowmobile Club to create a portion of the Rand Hill Rd trail to pass through my property, albeit a small section of the trail's total length, I can tell you that if anyone using the trail through my property ever told me that it was a right, not a privilege, to ride through my property would find out how quickly my little corner of the road would be closed to snowmobiling.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Thanks for opening your property Up, some tool will probably say something stupid to you, just remember, most of us try to use your property so we are unnoticed to you, we are a serious majority, and very grateful for you allowing us to be there. Ignore the trolls.

[Tom T]

Originally Posted by ITD

Thanks for opening your property Up, some tool will probably say something stupid to you, just remember, most of us try to use your property so we are unnoticed to you, we are a serious majority, and very grateful for you allowing us to be there. Ignore the trolls.

If its wasn't for the generosity of property owners there would be no trail systems. The ones that like to complain or make ridiculous statements are the same ones that ignore the local clubs asking for help. Every one is entitled to their opinions but until you get involved and know what it takes to keep trails open they are speaking out of term.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok did i piss off the few we have here or should we talk speed limt to piss off the rest....i will let the cat out of the bag soon.

I hope you realize that even forums such as this do yield search results near the top of the list. If you are posting this BS for shock value, SHAME ON YOU! If even one person sees this BS and thinks that it is OK, you are the reason.

Also, it is people like YOU that have caused me to "give up" on riding locally. I have not even volunteered in a number of years because of idiots like you. It is just a hopeless cause IMHO.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Either a tool or a fisherman.

Maybe landowners should put up toll booths.

PLEASE! Fishermen are sportsmen...there are “tools” in every Part of the human race...but they are in the “loud” minority.

[nhcatrider]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

It's the idiotic actions of a select few that ruin it for the rest. One of my friends had 3 miles of trail running through his land and the actions of a few were responsible for the closure of the trail. Imagine having to do a 3 mile reroute in January which is when he closed the gates on his land.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

It's the idiotic actions of a select few that ruin it for the rest. One of my friends had 3 miles of trail running through his land and the actions of a few were responsible for the closure of the trail. Imagine having to do a 3 mile reroute in January which is when he closed the gates on his land.

Just curious NHcat,... knowing what you know of the situation, do you agree with his/her decision to close the trail or do you think the landowner wasn’t forgiving enough and was being selfish? Honest question.

Thanks!

Dan

[Outdoorsman]

About 5ish years ago, with the help of my local snowmobile club, I built a decent (not elaborate) bridge across the brook on my property. I supplied most of the material. To be fair, this trail was used more by locals than the general riding population, but it was a secondary feeder trail that was generally used as a shortcut for a smaller loop ride and was open and used by the public. Three weeks after building that bridge, someone had stolen ALL the new materials used to make that bridge. 2x4's, Plywood etc. and left a mess of what little was not stolen.

I had the trail closed and there is no longer a reasonable "loop trail" as far as I know.

So, with all due respect, I can not ever see a land owner being "selfish". It is the few that ruin it for the many.

Sorry for the rant.

[nhcatrider]

I went with him one spring to clean up the trash that was left behind. The area of trash was out of sight of his house and the road. We filled his pickup when we cleaned up, and the area was clean before winter. This had happened over several years and the club was warned repeatedly as well as signs were posted. He even supplied trash barrels but they were hardly used and instead beer cans and other assorted trash was buried in the snow. He raises dogs and got sick of the predatory animals that were being attracted to the trash that was left behind. Since closing the trail he has not had a problem with animals. Seeing all of this I agree with his decision, even though it was a select few that ruined it for everyone else.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

PLEASE! Fishermen are sportsmen...there are “tools” in every Part of the human race...but they are in the “loud” minority.

Not sure if you understood that I was implying that he was fishing for reactions.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Not sure if you understood that I was implying that he was fishing for reactions.

No, I did not understand it that way...thanks for the clarification!

[MAXUM]

Let this be an illustration of "you can't fix stupid", about the only thing these donkeys understand is to have their privileges taken away. Unfortunately this cannot be done selectively when it comes to a snowmobile trail so everyone is affected. Sadly there is no good fix for this, LEOs can't be everywhere to catch people in the act. The clubs can only do so much and their efforts go for the most part unnoticed and under appreciated.

How many trails must close before people start to get it? Seems like for now not enough, but thanks to the RTTOOL mindset the trend continues to accelerate in the wrong direction.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

I went with him one spring to clean up the trash that was left behind. The area of trash was out of sight of his house and the road. We filled his pickup when we cleaned up, and the area was clean before winter. This had happened over several years and the club was warned repeatedly as well as signs were posted. He even supplied trash barrels but they were hardly used and instead beer cans and other assorted trash was buried in the snow. He raises dogs and got sick of the predatory animals that were being attracted to the trash that was left behind. Since closing the trail he has not had a problem with animals. Seeing all of this I agree with his decision, even though it was a select few that ruined it for everyone else.

Here at the Village Kitchen we have hundreds of snowmobilers passing through our property weekly on the way to the Red Hill trail. Many stop and congregate in the lower field before going up and many stop in the back yard
and come in to eat. I have never encountered any significant trash in the spring and

they have always been respectful around our two leach fields.
I would urge landowners to try to be understanding of the occasional kid (or adult)that gets out of line because they do not represent the majority and I'm pretty sure that if a club member or local rider saw them acting up that they would have have some pretty harsh words for them

[Woodsy]

Unfortunately....

If we do not police ourselves, the sport as we know it in NH will be killed off. Property owners are not going to be so generous when opening up their land for our use when it becomes a hassle.. be it noise or trash or failure to stay on the trail!

If you see someone being a TOOL... say something. Take pic or a vid and send it into F&G..

Woodsy

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Unfortunately....

If we do not police ourselves, the sport as we know it in NH will be killed off. Property owners are not going to be so generous when opening up their land for our use when it becomes a hassle.. be it noise or trash or failure to stay on the trail!

If you see someone being a TOOL... say something. Take pic or a vid and send it into F&G..

Woodsy

IGNORENT RIDERS hurt us more the Trash!

WHAT ABOUT THE RIDER THE DONOT OBEY THE SINAGE ON OUR TRAILS, SLOW, 10MPH AND SUCH.

WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE AWAY TO GET UP TO THE TOP OF THE NECK TRAIL FROM THE KONA AREA AND FAR ECHO WITH OUT HAVING TO USE THE LAKE FRO EITHE SIDE OF THE NECK.

OH THE "CAPS"? YES I AM SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE TAKE NOTE OF THE NUMBER OF TRAIL CLOUSERS/TOTAL LOSS OF TRAIL SYSTEMS?

[SAB1]

Very frustrating! The trail off 19 mile bay parking lot that heads south to Lang pond road is closed again this year and the trail off Melvin bay that is a left at power line and goes to castle lot is closed again though many are using it (there is no rope across it just a sign which is a mistake) I met a nice guy in the castle lot Sunday afternoon that is working with Wolfboro club. He is trying to give Wolfboro a rerout across his land to help get this trail open again but....he said people have been snowmobiling all over his land the past two weeks and he's thinking of pulling back his offer. I agree with woodsy above, we all need to do more policing ourselves but it may not do much. I think a lot of non local people don't visit club websites and see the closures and they just follow tracks already on the trails. But then and again when I think of the way I see folks driving their boats on the lakes with little to no idea what a buoy is .........

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by WINNOCTURN

IGNORENT RIDERS hurt us more the Trash!

WHAT ABOUT THE RIDER THE DONOT OBEY THE SINAGE ON OUR TRAILS, SLOW, 10MPH AND SUCH.

WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE AWAY TO GET UP TO THE TOP OF THE NECK TRAIL FROM THE KONA AREA AND FAR ECHO WITH OUT HAVING TO USE THE LAKE FRO EITHE SIDE OF THE NECK.

OH THE "CAPS"? YES I AM SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE TAKE NOTE OF THE NUMBER OF TRAIL CLOUSERS/TOTAL LOSS OF TRAIL SYSTEMS?

I think you are wrong about the riders being "Ignorent" (ignorant), I wish it were ignorance!... These riders can read signs, if they couldn't read or were uneducated or unaware that would be considered ignorant. Irresponsible and just don't give a sh&* is what these riders are. They have paid there registration fees and now they will ride where and however they want!

I have said it before and I will say it again, for whatever reason snowmobiling has more than its fair share of irresponsible people involved in the sport, more than any other outdoor sport I have ever been involved in by a long shot!

I agree with Woodsy and Sab1 that self policing is the only hope in hell we have to turn things around to save what few trails we have left. Even then I have my doubts...

Dan

[VitaBene]

Wow, this thread took on a life of its own!! We are fighting an uphill battle with land development and liability concerns. When we throw irresponsible riding into the mix, it becomes near impossible.

It is nice to see the support by many for our clubs and snowmobiling in general!

[Tom T]

Self policing and getting the word out to others is going to be the best way to handle these issues.

I volunteer with the Wolfeboro Snowmobile Club and SAB1 is correct we are close to having a reroute to the castle, if we get this through its in thanks to generous landowners. Anyone that is involved in this sport owes any landowner allowing trail access a world of thanks. Ishoot308 is correct a sign should be sufficient, even if we put fences up they find a way around them. A few just dont give a damn.

19 mile bay there was a no snowmobile sign posted, it sounds like someone took it down. Just another example if the ignorance of a few.

We have 3 no riding signs right next to each other near the transfer station and there are tracks going right through them. Again a few dont care. Maybe if we catch the ones abusing the right we can start getting the point across with a picture of there registration sent to fish and game. If you dont want to report them to fish and game notify your local club let them take care of it.

Our club has over 200 man hours into trail maintenance this year and this does not include our officers who spend countless hours talking with landowners, making sure permission forms are signed, looking for reroutes and the list goes on. All clubs work endless hours for all riders to enjoy. If we dont make a stand, police these individuals and spread the word our clubs will be gone.

Read the NHSA trail reports - many clubs are in the same battle. Moultonborough, Sandwich, Osspiee, Scurb Oaks are just a few in our backyards that have already lost trails.

Talk to your fellow riders, bring up the conversation at the coffee shops, local restaurants, happy hours wherever you like to spend time and have conversations. We need everyone to know about these issues. Most importantly we need the landowners to know we care.

[Woodsy]

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

[Tom T]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

I was just talking with our president about that today. Anything is worth a try

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

They would only get stolen or destroyed...

[tis]

Isn't it sad that we've come to this!?

[Woodsy]

ishoot...

While I do think them getting destroyed or stolen could happen.... the clubs have the advantage.

1st... the people don't know they are there... so there is the element of surprise.

2nd... clubs can use ladders to get the cam's high enough so that they cannot be reached easily.

3rd... the clubs can move the cameras around.

4th... a couple of well placed signs at junctions indicating trail cams are in use (junctions nowhere near actual trail cams) can go a long way.

Trailcams are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used by the clubs and F&G to help with the issue.

Woodsy

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

ishoot...

While I do think them getting destroyed or stolen could happen.... the clubs have the advantage.

1st... the people don't know they are there... so there is the element of surprise.

2nd... clubs can use ladders to get the cam's high enough so that they cannot be reached easily.

3rd... the clubs can move the cameras around.

4th... a couple of well placed signs at junctions indicating trail cams are in use (junctions nowhere near actual trail cams) can go a long way.

Trailcams are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used by the clubs and F&G to help with the issue.

Woodsy

Agreed....it's just my disgust with this subject makes me feel like this sport has no chance of surviving in NH. Unfortunately I have "the cup is always half empty" attitude on this topic...

Sorry;

Dan

[VitaBene]

We have a couple that we move around

[SAB1]

Its worth a try if some clubs have a little surplus cash. Installing them where trail closures are and getting numbers of those who cross the line is a great place to start. Just be aware, some of the cameras will be considered a donation because they will get stolen of smashed. As an avid hunter I can't tell you how many of ours have been stolen, smashed or tampered with (opening and taking the cards). Hiding them is key but people will see the foot prints in the snow going to them to check the cards. But its worth a shot.

[nhcatrider]

My local club at home had an issue about 5 years ago with irresponsible riding. We got sneaky putting up the cameras, I pulled my sled up near a tree and another rider brought a ladder over. We then sent a skinny person 20 feet up the ladder to put the camera up. 3 days later we had our culprits and the problem was solved. No footprints were left in the snow which helped, but its a bit awkward to carry a large ladder on a sled and not be noticed. Unfortunately this doesn't always work and the land owners close their land to us.

[thinkxingu]

How many "central" places are there for snowmobilers? Specifically, are there enough parking/meeting areas that signs could reach most people on the trail?

What other methods of communication are available? It would seem to me that effective communication could help solve/reduce this problem and club representatives could have something to show land owners when requesting opening/reopening trails.

I'm not a snowmobiler, but I've followed these threads the last few years, and it *appears* as if it's mostly lamenting a problem rather than attempting to solve it.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

[nhcatrider]

Best way to reach the riders is information given out when you register your sled. When I bought my new sled I had to sign a paper stating I was given a copy of the new laws concerning ohrvs. Maybe something like that?

[billy]

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

My local club at home had an issue about 5 years ago with irresponsible riding. We got sneaky putting up the cameras, I pulled my sled up near a tree and another rider brought a ladder over. We then sent a skinny person 20 feet up the ladder to put the camera up. 3 days later we had our culprits and the problem was solved. No footprints were left in the snow which helped, but its a bit awkward to carry a large ladder on a sled and not be noticed. Unfortunately this doesn't always work and the land owners close their land to us.

maybe set them up from the groomer instead of sled?

[nhcatrider]

It certainly would be much easier to take a ladder with.

[Ridgefarmer63]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

LOL. Look boys, we found one !!!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

How many "central" places are there for snowmobilers? Specifically, are there enough parking/meeting areas that signs could reach most people on the trail?

What other methods of communication are available? It would seem to me that effective communication could help solve/reduce this problem and club representatives could have something to show land owners when requesting opening/reopening trails.

I'm not a snowmobiler, but I've followed these threads the last few years, and it *appears* as if it's mostly lamenting a problem rather than attempting to solve it.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

There are thousands of miles of trails in NH. There is literally an unlimited amount of trail access points. People who trailer park pretty much everywhere, and people who live on/near trails can access them from their own land. So signs, while they can help, are not the only answer.
Clubs can communicate with their members through snail mail, email, and social media. But that only goes so far. It is darn near impossible for clubs to reach 100% of their members.

And regarding your last comment, read the last several posts in this thread discussing trail cams. That is an attempt to solve the problem.

Look, it really is the few that ruin it for all. The people that ride off-trail don't care about signs, they don't care about rules. They know full well that what they are doing is illegal, but are willing to take the chance because the odds are that they won't get caught.

[Hillcountry]

Just heard about this product. It may help to prevent trail cam theft!
Supposed to be available Spring 2018!


https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...16356595041667

[DickR]

To address the matter of tree-mounted cameras being stolen or destroyed, one solution might be to use a PV-recharged cam with streaming radio transmission to a remote recorder. By the time the thief/vandal can do his damage to the cam, it's already too late - his mug has been transmitted live and saved for the judge to view. I'm sure restitution would be part of the sentencing.

[ishoot308]

Good article / post on “Doo Talk” regarding this topic....

http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/...trail-closing/

Dan

[ApS]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and
passing the blame to the user is not the answer.

While following this thread, I can't help but reflect on boaters who wonder why a law—restricting ocean-racers' summer "fun"—was signed into law by the Governor.

.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by ApS

While following this thread, I can't help but reflect on boaters who wonder why a law—restricting ocean-racers' summer "fun"—was signed into law by the Governor.

.

Of course you can’t, who would be surprised that for the thousandth time you would try to awaken the speed limit debate in yet another totally unrelated thread?

Well before the speed restriction was placed on Winnipesaukee, NH trails already had speed restrictions including a general 45 MPH upper limit on State trails.

You’ll need to find another angle.....

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Skip

Of course you can’t, who would be surprised that for the thousandth time you would try to awaken the speed limit debate in yet another totally unrelated thread?

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

From my observations and experiences there is far more than a minority of scofflaw boaters during the summer...but the scarcity of MP is the reason...the tools know they won’t be caught.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds. The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders. Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season.

‘Nough said......

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Skip

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds. The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders. Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season.

‘Nough said......

Um...I'm not sure you do disagree. I did not mention speed in my post. I referred to disregard for others.

The issue is not the specific offense, but the absence of sensitivity, manners and common sense. Noise, speed, litter, property damage, right of way rules, etc...They're kind of all the same in terms of the reactions they provoke.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Um...I'm not sure you do disagree. I did not mention speed in my post. I referred to disregard for others.

The issue is not the specific offense, but the absence of sensitivity, manners and common sense. Noise, speed, litter, property damage, right of way rules, etc...They're kind of all the same in terms of the reactions they provoke.

Totally agree...thanks!

[swnoel]

What gives anyone who isn't a member of a club, the right to operate on any of the trails that are obviously private. I can't imagine just the fact they have a registered sled would give them that right... or has it something to do with registration funds used for maintaining those trails?

[Woodsy]

A NH sled registration gives you access to all of the sled trails in NH... just like a car registration gives you access to all public roads.

Most of the sled trails are on private, not public property. This gets ugly when people do not abide by the rules and ride off trail, leave trash, etc etc. The property owners then rescind their permission to cross the property!

Moral of the story.... don't be a TOOL! Respect the property owners and stay on the trail... carry in / carry out... keep quiet and don't mod your exhaust! If you go faster than 45... man up and take your speeding ticket if F&G catches you!

It is really pretty simple!

Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Skip

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds.
[#1]The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders.
[#2]Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season. ‘Nough said......

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by ApS

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

Yup, kind of like those old planes you love so much landing right off the lake. Its only important to you when it serves your agenda.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

Your thinking is incorrect. A sled running at or near the legal snowmobile speed limit of 45 is quieter than when it is accelerating. It is loafing along at 45.

[Woodsy]

APS (Always Pushing Sh**) bringing up the speed limit where it has no relevance!

Unfortunately for APS, Speed has absolutely nothing to do with trail closures! For the most part loud sleds are thing of the past... especially with the rising popularity of the 4-stroke machines. You can drive a whisper quiet 200+ HP 4 stroke right from the factory!

Woodsy

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

APS (Always Pushing Sh**) bringing up the speed limit where it has no relevance!

Unfortunately for APS, Speed has absolutely nothing to do with trail closures! For the most part loud sleds are thing of the past... especially with the rising popularity of the 4-stroke machines. You can drive a whisper quiet 200+ HP 4 stroke right from the factory!

Woodsy

Maybe speed/noise is a problem in the Sunshine State? Perhaps our esteemed poster could point us to the Florida Snowmobile Association page for further details??

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Yup, kind of like those old planes you love so much landing right off the lake. Its only important to you when it serves your agenda.

Landings are quiet. But noise and speed are important regardless of whatever portion of the country they occur.

If you listen to radio, have conversations, or use a telephone at the lake, excessive noise is an undeniably anti-social intrusion.

Sure, acceleration is a factor, but where there are hills, there is going to be excessive noise. Stand alongside Wolfeboro's North Main Street some time, and try to tell me that a 4-stroke Harley is quiet going uphill.

I've pointed out my family moved to the Airpark—I was only 12, and had no "say". As it turned out, we were insulated from takeoff noise by a long, tall, hillside—and seldom heard landings. Perhaps, however, only on windless days—and only then—a landing consisted of a "chirp" of tires.

My poor neighbors near Thomas Point have had the worst noise from floatplane takeoffs, as high-drag "supersonic propeller-tip speed" blasted their ears. Wolfeboro property turnovers near Thomas Point are frequent. (A problem with buying "off-season").

Ironically, the Airpark's designated "lake landing strips" have become useless, as the increase in tubing—along with ever-increasing boat wakes—has turned floatplanes away.

My personal dislikes:

• Noisy sleds on Winnipesaukee ice.

• All floatplanes but Cessna 190 and one 130-HP Luscombe.

The Luscombe has the shortest takeoff run I've ever seen, and climbs to an impressive altitude immediately. Because free rides were given to Scouts, what little noise there was, could be overlooked.

.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ApS

Landings are quiet. But noise and speed are important regardless of whatever portion of the country they occur.

If you listen to radio, have conversations, or use a telephone at the lake, excessive noise is an undeniably anti-social intrusion.

Sure, acceleration is a factor, but where there are hills, there is going to be excessive noise. Stand alongside Wolfeboro's North Main Street some time, and try to tell me that a 4-stroke Harley is quiet going uphill.

I've pointed out my family moved to the Airpark—I was only 12, and had no "say". As it turned out, we were insulated from takeoff noise by a long, tall, hillside—and seldom heard landings. Perhaps, however, only on windless days—and only then—a landing consisted of a "chirp" of tires.

My poor neighbors near Thomas Point have had the worst noise from floatplane takeoffs, as high-drag "supersonic propeller-tip speed" blasted their ears. Wolfeboro property turnovers near Thomas Point are frequent. (A problem with buying "off-season").

Ironically, the Airpark's designated "lake landing strips" have become useless, as the increase in tubing—along with ever-increasing boat wakes—has turned floatplanes away.

My personal dislikes:

• Noisy sleds on Winnipesaukee ice.

• All floatplanes but Cessna 190 and one 130-HP Luscombe.

The Luscombe has the shortest takeoff run I've ever seen, and climbs to an impressive altitude immediately. Because free rides were given to Scouts, what little noise there was, could be overlooked.

.

Maybe we can get back on topic here. Float planes have nothing to do with snowmobile trail closures. For that matter, load sleds on the lake have nothing to do with trail closures, either.

[upthesaukee]

From the Laconia Daily Sun today (2-16-2018), regarding closure of trails in the Chocorua area. A recent article stated this would be the last year for the Sled Dog Races as well as snowmobiling. Today's article gives the property owners reasons for closing the trails to snowmobiles. Pretty much the same reasons that have been stated earlier in this thread, and probably caused by a minority of riders. However, for the owners, enough is enough evidently. Here's the article:
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...hocorua-trails

Dave

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[RTTOOL]

Wave to me when i drive by . PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES ....

[ITD]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

From the Laconia Daily Sun today (2-16-2018), regarding closure of trails in the Chocorua area. A recent article stated this would be the last year for the Sled Dog Races as well as snowmobiling. Today's article gives the property owners reasons for closing the trails to snowmobiles. Pretty much the same reasons that have been stated earlier in this thread, and probably caused by a minority of riders. However, for the owners, enough is enough evidently. Here's the article:
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...hocorua-trails

Dave

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It sounds like a bureaucratic issue to me, the landowner had a simple request of the state, the state said no, apparently because it is just not done this way, I'm sitting here shaking my head at the stupidity.

[Cobalt]

Moultonboro Snowmobile Club Website


CLOSURE – ALONG CORRIDOR 15

The land owner along a portion of corridor 15 called the club on Sunday evening to say the part of the trail that goes through his land will close on Monday, February 19’th. Sleds were traveling all over his land today (Sunday), off the trail and triggered his action. The powder today was amazing, but it cost the club a major linkage in its trail system. Expect the gate just off of Moultonborough Neck Road to be locked and big boulders blocking the trail near Hanson Road. The trail off the lake will dead-end at Hanson Road.

[SAB1]

Thanks for heads up but again terrible news for us that ride responsibly. I guess we all need to do a better job policing ourselves and turning people in though it isn't always easy to get the reg numbers. It should also be punitive when caught. If fish and game catches people off trail their current registration should be forfeited, they should be fined and they should not be able to reregister for the following two seasons. Gotta make people think more....

[Closetzguy]

Time to sell the sleds......ability to ride locally was really the only reason I got into this.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Closetzguy

Time to sell the sleds......ability to ride locally was really the only reason I got into this.

A few years back when I was on the Board of Directors at the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association a contributor from the NH Bureau of Trails made an ominous prediction: the frequently warmer and shorter winters south of the notches, coupled with an ever increasing angst by landowners, made him feel that major trail closures would occur within five years, and that within ten years most riding south of the notches would be no longer connected but reduced to a number of loop systems within those clubs that could survive.

I think we are right at his five year benchmark and I believe that within five more years a number of clubs within an hour or two drive of the Lakes Region will be but a fond memory.

I believe there will still be plenty of riding in Coos County, but that the crowding up there means that more and more NH folks that stay in the sport will continue to migrate to Maine and Quebec.

[stynx55]

ATVS are a big reason for trail closures. There were multiple Atv tracks along with a single sled track in the area that was recently closed in Moultonborough.

[upthesaukee]

I had to go to Laconia yesterday, and as I passed the end of the Laconia Bypass near Lily Pond, I looked over at the trail entrance of the side of the entrance to the bypass, and saw the double gates closed, trail closed. Just west of the bypass, there is a single gate that was closed as well.
Just to the right of that closed gate is a space between trees, and a snowmobile(s) circumvented the gate and went through the open space to get on the closed trail. Probably only a few at most entering this closed trail.
Doesn't matter how many, just that the actions of a few could result in yet another trail being closed. If memory serves me right, I think there is a maple syrup gathering network on that hill.
Last update on Belknap Snowmobilers FB page on 2-22 says all trails closed.
I hope this does not end up being a problem for the club.

Dave

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[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I had to go to Laconia yesterday, and as I passed the end of the Laconia Bypass near Lily Pond, I looked over at the trail entrance of the side of the entrance to the bypass, and saw the double gates closed, trail closed. Just west of the bypass, there is a single gate that was closed as well.
Just to the right of that closed gate is a space between trees, and a snowmobile(s) circumvented the gate and went through the open space to get on the closed trail. Probably only a few at most entering this closed trail.
Doesn't matter how many, just that the actions of a few could result in yet another trail being closed. If memory serves me right, I think there is a maple syrup gathering network on that hill.
Last update on Belknap Snowmobilers FB page on 2-22 says all trails closed.
I hope this does not end up being a problem for the club.

Dave

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I'll be optimistic and hope that the gates were only closed because the club felt the season was over at the time (late February). If so, I hope the sledders remained on the "closed" trail. I'm not familiar with riding in that area or how proactive the club is. Not that I've done it, or am an advocate of it, but these guys pay a registration to ride trails and in the Lakes region we only have so many opportunities to ride locally. Given the recent snow falls, there should be adequate coverage. With that said, if these are truly closed trails, whether closed permanently or for the season (due to maple syrup, etc.), then I agree it would be an unfortunate circumstance.

What I can say is that Moultonboro is great. John H. does a good job updating folks when gates are opened, closed, reopened, groomed, etc. What I'm trying to say is be optimistic. Everyone is so quick to jump to the negative conclusions all too frequently without all the facts.

[SAB1]

Last thing we need is more closures so hopefully this won’t be issue next year. I saw on the Pittsburg website they put a post out asking people to stay on trail because a landowner is getting fed up with off trail riding. Would be aweful to see closures up there. We need to start policing ourselves better.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Last thing we need is more closures so hopefully this won’t be issue next year. I saw on the Pittsburg website they put a post out asking people to stay on trail because a landowner is getting fed up with off trail riding. Would be aweful to see closures up there. We need to start policing ourselves better.

That's not just any landowner, but one of the timber companies. There are a couple timber companies that own thousands of acres up there. If one closes access, Pittsburg would be in deep, deep trouble I think.

Not to dismiss any other landowners either. They are ALL equally important in any trail system.

[SAB1]

Agreed. Like I said above this problem can be fixed by F&G. Implement a $1,000 fine on any rider caught riding off trail, suspend current year registration and the ability to register the following year. That will reel it in quickly.

[SAB1]

Powder Mill Snowmobile Club 4 hours ago Powder Mill Snowmobile ClubUPDATE: COR 22 FROM JOHNSONS RESTAURANT TO ALTON IS CLOSED DUE TO OFF TRAIL RIDING.

This is the New Durham town pit,off Stockbridge Corner Rd. This section of Cor 22 might be closed indefinitely due to people riding over saplings that were planted in this area. If you know of anyone who might be responsible for this please let us or F&G know, could prevent this trail from being closed permanently.

[Outdoorsman]

ATTENTION SNOWMOBILERS!!

Please be advised that the Balsams Ownership had given their FINAL warning!

If the OFF TRAIL RIDING does not stop immediately, the following trails will be closed:

Any and all land that is owned by the Balsams, including the Balsams Trail from Diamond Peaks Store
Corridor Trail 134 – up to Dixville Peaks
Corridor Trail 134 up to Nathan Pond

Please pass the word
https://www.facebook.com/L.L.CoteSpo...55102878712364

[HomeWood]

I'd say it's unbelievable but it's believable.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Powder Mill Snowmobile Club 4 hours ago Powder Mill Snowmobile ClubUPDATE: COR 22 FROM JOHNSONS RESTAURANT TO ALTON IS CLOSED DUE TO OFF TRAIL RIDING.

This is the New Durham town pit,off Stockbridge Corner Rd. This section of Cor 22 might be closed indefinitely due to people riding over saplings that were planted in this area. If you know of anyone who might be responsible for this please let us or F&G know, could prevent this trail from being closed permanently.

Town of New Durham was not kidding. They have closed that portion of the trail due to off trail riding. Per Powdermill Snowmobile Club.

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[Outdoorsman]

I like the idea that I read on one of the facebook pages.

If you are caught riding off trail, in addition to a fine, add x hours of community service to a local snowmobile club before you can obtain a new snowmobile registration. Those ppl with more money than brains could learn a whole lot if they had to help out a club with trail maintenance (year round).

I know it will never happen, but it is fun to think about.

[chrider]

We have lost some trails in the last few years for varying reasons, ranging from riding off trail to local politics and subdividing lots by landowners. Installing cameras IS NOT the answer. You will not be able to read the registration numbers. At best you can get a description of the sled...a black and yellow sled whizzing by your camera. We plaster the area with signs but we can't force people to abide by them. Fish and Game officers are few and far between. We can't have a cop at every junction nor would we want one. Frankly there is nothing we can do about it. We discuss this at Board of Directors meetings as well as NHSA meetings. The outcome is always the same; we can't stop it.

[upthesaukee]

Sitting on my back porch watching TV and lo and behold, two ATVs came westbound on the Rand Hill Rd snowmobile trail that runs behind my house, between Rand Hill Rd and Lakewood. I was actually able to get their attention and told them to go over the bridge, take a left and get on the road.

I think they may have been kids. And people wonder why landowners shut down trails through their land. (No I'm not! )

Dave

[SAB1]

Like the rest of the world I just think to many people are uneducated to rules. I think this is the major the problem with snowmobiling. People that know no better see a trail and and ride it. Signage is often times not great. If you are not in a club and relatively new to riding you just go for it. In the lakes region I think it is compounded by not always having enuff snow to ride all the time but at times we do so many mariginal riders that do,it just for fun once in a while become a problem because they know no better. I hate to say it but like boating there may come a time for license to ride that requires mandatory training to complete to sit for it.....