Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I don't think the controversy that has taken place since the accident is pro-speed limit against anti-speed limit. The pro limit-regulars have not posted negative. This is mostly a new group more interested in the accident than in HB847.

An accident like this will draw a crowd. Like the crowds that hang around the court house when a big name trial is taking place. There is no courtroom yet so they hang around this forum. This thread has has 27,000+ views in a week and a half.

I personally believe we should wait for more information and let feelings cool before trying to dissect what happened. In any event it is only one accident. One accident should not make OR break speed limits no matter what happened.

I think Lt. Dunleavy will do his job and go where the evidence leads him.

BI,

Great words, great advice and a great post!

Folks, please wait for the facts and trust that the authorities will do a thorough and complete job. We all need to be fair and react to facts, not speculation.

Things are in good hands and we should not jump to any conclusions.

R2B

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

BI,

Great words, great advice and a great post!

Folks, please wait for the facts and trust that the authorities will do a thorough and complete job. We all need to be fair and react to facts, not speculation.

Things are in good hands and we should not jump to any conclusions.
R2B

I agree with BI and R2B.

All we really know is that a terrible tragedy took place. I feel badly for all those touched by the event.

We do not know the cause. Some people and alleged news reporters are quick to judge and draw conclusions. They would rather sensationalize the story instead of reporting unbiased facts.

I'm not yet convinced that this is an accident! IMHO it is too much of a coincidence regarding the timing and people involved. It would be horrific if foul play was involved but it is a possibiliy.

It was a new boat with dealer plate. It could have been a malfunction. A magnet of some sort altering the compass. An electrical mis-calibration throwing the chartplotter off. Was there a failure of the throttle or steering or both? There are so many possibilities besides alcohol and speed. Let the authorities investigate and report.

In the meantime, pray for all those affected. Whatever the cause is, this is a sad event for everyone.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Sandy Beach

... It could have been a malfunction. A magnet of some sort altering the compass. An electrical mis-calibration throwing the chartplotter off. Was there a failure of the throttle or steering or both? There are so many possibilities besides alcohol and speed. ....

No matter what the machinery it still boils down to the operator being responsible for the vessel and being able to stop or avoid within the visible distance. Speed was a factor.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

No matter what the machinery it still boils down to the operator being responsible for the vessel and being able to stop or avoid within the visible distance. Speed was a factor.

While the first part is true, if a mechanical failure occurred at a point where it would have been impossible to change course, then speed would have nothing to do with it.
Speed may have been a factor, but the CAUSE of the accident would still be machanical failure.

[kjbathe]

I just saw the photos of the accident site above and my reaction is, wow, she didn't miss by much -- a hundred yards further to the right and she's clear. Easy mistake on a foggy night, but no less tragic

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by chipj29

While the first part is true, if a mechanical failure occurred at a point where it would have been impossible to change course, then speed would have nothing to do with it.
Speed may have been a factor, but the CAUSE of the accident would still be machanical failure.

Mechanical failure could mean a kink or something in the throttle line somehow caused a sudden and unexpected increase in speed. The driver would not have intended to travel at that speed.

Still I am bothered by the "coincidence". I'm waiting for authorities to rule out foul play. The speed limit is a highly charged and passionate issue for some people. An extremely small percent of those people could be irrational enough or unbalanced (sick) enough to consider making their point by facilitating something like this. I would hate for that to be the case but we just don't know yet.

I pray for all those touched by the tragedy regardless of the cause.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Sandy Beach

Mechanical failure could mean a kink or something in the throttle line somehow caused a sudden and unexpected increase in speed. The driver would not have intended to travel at that speed.

Still I am bothered by the "coincidence". I'm waiting for authorities to rule out foul play. The speed limit is a highly charged and passionate issue for some people. An extremely small percent of those people could be irrational enough or unbalanced (sick) enough to consider making their point by facilitating something like this. I would hate for that to be the case but we just don't know yet.

I pray for all those touched by the tragedy regardless of the cause.

I'm sorry, but I think this type of conjecture is uncalled for and somewhat ridiculous. This is far worse speculation than anything that has been written in previous posts (except your earlier little hand grenade you taossed in). For one thing, this family has access to dozens of boats, new and used-a person with malicious intent would have no clue what boat they were taking. Second, the boat had already travelled a good distance before the incident. Had the cause been tampering, it would likely have shown up well before it did.

As has been said time and time again, let's wait for the results before assessing any type of blame or casting aspersions against anyone. The only thing we know for sure now is that the boat was going too fast for the conditions.

[twoplustwo]

I'm sorry, but I think this type of conjecture is uncalled for and somewhat ridiculous. Dittoooooo.

The speculation surrounding this tragedy has been bad enough without conspiracy theorists, the grassy knoll, and Professor Plumb with the lead pipe in the ballroom.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

I'm sorry, but I think this type of conjecture is uncalled for and somewhat ridiculous. Dittoooooo.

The speculation surrounding this tragedy has been bad enough without conspiracy theorists, the grassy knoll, and Professor Plumb with the lead pipe in the ballroom.

I wouldn't rule out foul play yet. It's possible some of the "speed limit" folks were on shore pointing magnets at her boat. That would certainly mess up the compass. Or maybe they painted a tunnel in the island like Wiley E. Coyote There were reports of an Acme delivery truck in the area that night.

[fatlazyless]

Anyone remember when a different boat, about ten years ago or so, crashed into the dock and shoreline of Eagle Island in the nightime?

It was reported in the newspaper that when the fire department got there, the first words of the boat driver was something like: "This island is not supposed to be here. According to my gps, this island is in the wrong place!"

If I remember, his gps was running on a 'road' cartridge, and not a proper 'water' cartridge, or somethin, or other?

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Anyone remember when a different boat, about ten years ago or so, crashed into the dock and shoreline of Eagle Island in the nightime?

It was reported in the newspaper that when the fire department got there, the first words of the boat driver was something like: "This island is not supposed to be here. According to my gps, this island is in the wrong place!"

If I remember, his gps was running on a 'road' cartridge, and not a proper 'water' cartridge, or somethin, or other?

From ten years ago, you have an excellent memory. And he did use those same words.

It may be those with poor memories who end up as he did.

The NHMP discouraged him from his anchoring overnight in your area. He said he had another destination in mind, and "ran the plotter". That's always a mistake as BoaterEd.com noted.....you "run the boat"......always....

The plotter showed no lake details, so he THOUGHT he'd parallel Rt. 3. An island unexpectedly entered those thoughts.

My own thoughts are that the emergence of GPS on Winni poses serious questions for slower boaters out at night, or any anchored at night. FLL's boater could have been from out of state, where overnight anchoring is perfectly fine.

It's scary enough that a "cruise control" has been designed for boats. Even scarier, a plotter hooked up to an autopilot can "even drive itself"! A sailboat under sail was once cut in half by a cruiser a witness described saying, "nobody was seen at either helm station".

Trust the plotter alone in fog, with or without GPS?

[Justenuff]

Being a slow boater on the lake, I have only a passive interest in speed limits (unless being targeted by a fast boat), but one thing strikes me as being interesting about the continuation of this thread:

Some boaters on the lake would rather trust their electronic devices (compasses included) rather than their own senses.

To me, it is the equivalent of traveling route 93 in a blinding snowstorm. The sign says I can do 65 mph, the gps says I am on the road, do I still forge ahead, or do I slow to a speed where my senses can be trusted? (even if it is a stop!)

My boat gps occasionally shows me on land, even though I am at sail or at mooring (it is a garmin). I trust that these electronic devices are not 100% foolproof, so I use all my available senses.

I have been out on the lake at nite many times. If I don't know where I am, I slow down and stop until I can get my bearings. If I still have a problem, I move very slowly until I can make a better reckoning. My speed is a direct relationship to my ability to navigate.

On one occasion, I was out with sails up around 11 pm. It was a dark, foggy nite, and I was making my way from Wolfeboro to West Alton. (my boat had all the nav lights on as required) As I was at sail, I could hear the roar of the other boaters around me, but had no visual sighting. At one point, a motor seemed to be bearing down on me. I flashed my 1 million cp lamp at the sail, and around the boat, but the sound kept coming closer. Finally, I had to point the lamp directly at the boat sound and startled the operator who managed to swerve to miss me at about 100'. Obviously, the operator was travelling too fast for conditions.

My point is simple, electronic devices are no substitute for common sense. If you can't determine where you are or what is in front of you, then you should be slowing down or stopping and moving extremely cautiously. If this was the case in this accident, then perhaps a tragedy could have been averted.

My sympathies to all who were hurt or lost their lives.

[Airwaves]

Justenuff based on your post you seem like a good and prudent boater, someone who knows how to enjoy sailing and boating and do it safely. I don't get this however:

Some boaters on the lake would rather trust their electronic devices (compasses included) rather than their own senses.

I've been on the pages for a couple of years and I don't recall anyone on the forum even hinting at that, and outside of 2BD's post above, even hinting that someone was doing that causing an accident.

A GPS is a tool, like a compass and chart, to help you navigate etc. It's still up to you, the skipper, to make sure you've got everything under control.

I still use paper.

[sa meredith]

I'll be very glad when I open this thread, and instead of reading the same things (stated slightly differently) over and over and over and over and over again, we actually get some new information about the cause of the accident or the health of Erica.
The point, counter point, for this thread (now over 300 strong) has run it's course...in my opinion.

[NHKathy]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I'll be very glad when I open this thread, and instead of reading the same things (stated slightly differently) over and over and over and over and over again, we actually get some new information about the cause of the accident or the health of Erica.
The point, counter point, for this thread (now over 300 strong) has run it's course...in my opinion.

When will this stop?!
This is now in it's 4 page!
I'm getting really sick of seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again!
ANY UPDATE ON THE INJURED ????
(then again, there could have been an update mixed in between all of this -and I missed it... )

[kthy66]

Originally Posted by NHKathy

When will this stop?!
This is now in it's 4 page!
I'm getting really sick of seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again!
ANY UPDATE ON THE INJURED ????
(then again, there could have been an update mixed in between all of this -and I missed it... )

If your so sick of it then stop reading it.. simple solution to a simple problem

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by kthy66

If your so sick of it then stop reading it.. simple solution to a simple problem

I'm sorry KTHY66, but you're wrong to post what you did, and I think it is a little rude.
Where else would you like us to look to find the latest news on this event. Many people close to this situation are memebers of this forum, and we depend on them to post info when they get it. So, when this thread pops up with a new post, it's frustrating to click in, scoll all the way down to only find THE SAME EXACT THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN. OFTEN DIFFERENT WORDS, BUT THE SAME THINGS. POINT, COUNTER POINT, POINT, COUNTER POINT.
We all get it... ok???? Speed, dark, light, rain, fog, drinking, not drinking, gps, radar, speed limits, no wake zone, Dr's. camp, IT'S ALL BEEN SAID!

Why would you tell her to stop reading it???? I'm sure all she wants is some real info about the health of Erica, or the cause of the accident.

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

...
So, when this thread pops up with a new post, it's frustrating to click in, scroll all the way down to only find THE SAME EXACT THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
. ...

sa meredith You are doing it backwards. This method might help relieve some of your frustration. View the forum in Linear Mode. When you want to see the newer posts on a page hit the End button on your keyboard. The display will jump directly to the end of the page without scrolling. Then you scroll up a few posts to see what's new.

This tragedy is horrible regardless of any personal agendas. I don't think it is fair to assume anything about the situation or even if there is probable cause for any court involvement.

We do not know what happened. We do not know if there will be charges or any court involvement and even if we did know, we are all innocent until proven guilty.

This is not a good time for anyone involved or touched by this terrible accident.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by NHKathy

ANY UPDATE ON THE INJURED ????
(then again, there could have been an update mixed in between all of this -and I missed it... )

I talked with a good friend of mine on Tuesday who visited Erica this past Sunday.He said he thought she was doing much better and considering the magnitude of this accident,her spirits were ok.I believe her condition is now listed as satisfactory.I don't have any info on Nicole.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by online Citizen

Blizzard was unconscious. Her face was swollen and there were cuts on her chin. She was in critical condition when she was hospitalized; she was discharged Monday.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...799/-1/CITIZEN

[Ropetow]

My prayers are with both of them.

[2Blackdogs]

The leak referred to by the Nashua Telegraph means that we hear one week earlier of a criminal case investigation going forward.

Leaked or not, the message returns us to possible criminal charges in this case, the word "planing", drinking at a lakeside restaurant, the possibility of "overserving" (seen here in a previous boating case), and the question whether canned beer is sold at that location or not. These did not become "un-facts" because someone here says so.

Technical details tell us that a minimum of 19mph is required for this cruiser to plane. Typically, an automobile accident at 10mph produces no injuries whatsoever, even for those not belted in, and even without airbag deployment.

So we're left with extrapolations, and 19 mph doesn't do it for me.

Myself, I consider any "determinations of blood alcohol content" to be emphatically ***BWI data***, Skip, whether exculpatory or probative. I see "the embarrassing release" as damaging to any jury pool in this state, and a "change of venue" demanded, perhaps to Maine.

No, not to Maine, forget Maine.

The link provided previously can't be "read" at all, because it's a Podcast! Having it read aloud brings reality to the listener.....and just what a juror would hear. The likelihood of a jury can't be ignored in this case.

You'll have to cut and paste the link to the address bar to hear it. And there is no legal word spelled "affadavit".

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I'll be very glad when I open this thread, and instead of reading the same things (stated slightly differently) over and over and over and over and over again, we actually get some new information about the cause of the accident or the health of Erica.
The point, counter point, for this thread (now over 300 strong) has run it's course...in my opinion.

I think it is safe to say one expects a forum to contain opinions. Perhaps you should try a newspaper if you don't want to see opinions and personal comments.

[VtSteve]

Boy, ya really nailed that one BD.

The headline articles may have been premature, but we have a boat on plane with some beer cans. There was more detail in some other articles, but mostly related to the warrant.

I don't think anything's been jeopardized in the case, there's still the pesky facts to deal with, none of which we have.

[wildwoodfam]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

It's still up to you, the skipper, to make sure you've got everything under control.

There are an awful lot of "skippers" out there who a) don't know the difference between starboard and port, b) couldn't tell you the difference between an anchor knot and a sailors knot, nor do they know how to tie a boat at the dock (that one I have witnessed first hand - a guy looping his line around and around and around the piling....then walking away. I then un looped it and re-tied it - only to have him come back screaming at me to "step away from my boat!!!" Luckily for me another person on the dock was able to let this maniac know I was actually HELPING HIM OUT! and c) could not give a care in the world as to right of way, no-wake rules, and courtesy at the docks, let alone what to do in case of bad weather, running at night or in the fog. Actually had one buddy ask me why we were cruising so slowly back to my docks one night coming from Wolfeboro to LI (which is a pretty easy ride.) I asked him - "how far ahead of the boat are you able to see anything?" His reply - "What does that matter - throttle it up and get us home!!!" All I can say is - he owns a boat and its on Lake Winnipesaukee, and when I see him heading out at night, I am glad to be in home port!

My point??? While many boaters on Winni are good skippers - there are many who are not - and do not have things under control.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by wildwoodfamMy point??? While many boaters on Winni are good skippers - there are many who are not - and do not have things under control.

And if you read my post again, what does the part that you quoted actually say and how are you in disagreement with it?

Airwaves:
It's still up to you, the skipper, to make sure you've got everything under control.

[2Blackdogs]

wildwoodfam writes,

I have witnessed first hand - a guy looping his line around and around and around the piling....then walking away.

Maybe it was Winni's Wild-West influence showing. Isn't that what Cowboys always do when they "tie up the reins" in Westerns?

*S A Meredith*, in dire need of any new developments here, needs to check this newscast.

http://robocaster.com/nashuatelegraph/podcast-episode-home/apps-pbcs_dll-article$aid=-20080625-news02-726346467/officials-looking-into-whether-alcohol-played-role-in-crash-boat-driver-prominent-foe-of-speed-limits.aspx

You may have to "read" it twice, but if I've "read" it correctly, the NHMP released BWI data prematurely!

Like Littlefield, another BWI charge may be imperiled in NH courts without a legal defense team having lifted a finger.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

...You may have to "read" it twice, but if I've "read" it correctly, the NHMP released BWI data prematurely!...

You can read it three or four times, and your conclusion is still in error on two major counts.

First, the NHMP released nothing. The documents that were released, the search warrant with supporting affadivit, was released prematurely by the Court, not the NHMP. There has already been a full accounting by the court and the release has no bearing on the investigation, save for embarassing a court clerk.

Second, no "BWI data" was released, either prematurely or in any other manner. Once again, what was released was a copy of the search warrant and the supporting affadavit which was used to obtain a blood sample to determine blood alcohol content. The results of that sample, your so called "BWI data", remains sealed pending final investigation results.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

wildwoodfam writes,

Maybe it was Winni's Wild-West influence showing. Isn't that what Cowboys always do when they "tie up the reins" in Westerns? (

Speaking of the Wild West...You give me the impression that you want to schedule the hanging tomorrow at sundown. Have a little respect, will you, until the investigation is complete and the facts are presented.

[2Blackdogs]

VitaBene writes,

As has been said time and time again, let's wait for the results before assessing any type of blame or casting aspersions against anyone. The only thing we know for sure now is that the boat was going too fast for the conditions.[/QUOTE]
The problem with "wait", is that as soon as any legal charges are filed, the lawyers will have prepared statements saying,

"We will demonstrate that they were not drinking, those weren't their beer cans, there is no evidence that they were in Wolfeboro, they were not legally drunk, that their instrumentation was not faulty, that they were lured to that location by abandoned magnetic Navy devices, that is was not their anchor that hit the house, that the wrong person was placed at the helm by inept police detectives....etc."

All the details that we can gather here from the scene will keep us from being dumbed-down for that media assault by trained......errrrrrrr......a trained team in the legal profession.