Meredith SB-2 petition

[summersux]

Originally Posted by ITD

Schemes like SB2 are dreamed up by Massachusetts transplants who were driven out of their home state because it has gotten so expensive, yet are only comfortable with a bunch of criminal legislators spending their money. They are too lazy to get involved themselves, and get upset when they see their neighbors doing it at town meeting.

You hit the nail right on the head good job man.

PS. A lot of people don't like to admit that they are lazy thus will not like your comment.

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by summersux

You hit the nail right on the head good job man.

PS. A lot of people don't like to admit that they are lazy thus will not like your comment.

SB-2 has its good & bad points, but it's a valid way to run town government. Where SB-2 has been instituted it has thrived. Very, very few NH towns have voted SB-2 out after adopting it. As for SB-2 being some Massachusetts-scam......show me some documentation for that ?

IMO SB-2 works best in towns with fast growing populations......in smaller towns, not so much.

[summersux]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

SB-2 has its good & bad points, but it's a valid way to run town government. Where SB-2 has been instituted it has thrived. Very, very few NH towns have voted SB-2 out after adopting it. As for SB-2 being some Massachusetts-scam......show me some documentation for that ?

IMO SB-2 works best in towns with fast growing populations......in smaller towns, not so much.

Your the one who said it you back it up. I don't believe that. But this is interesting and the time frame is right. Link

Originally Posted by Dave Michaels, The Dallas Morning News

Last modified 1/5/2008 - 12:34 pm
Originally created 010508

New residents from Massachusetts change New Hampshire political landscape


By Dave Michaels, The Dallas Morning News

MANCHESTER, N.H. - New Hampshire, once among the reddest states in the country, has undergone an elephantine demographic shift since its last hotly contested presidential primary, with an influx of new voters that could turn the outcome of both races Tuesday.


The Granite State gained 207,000 new residents between 2001 and 2005 - including about 90,000 who moved over the border from Massachusetts, according to a recent report by the University of New Hampshire's Carsey Institute. During the same period, 188,000 people left the state.

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by summersux

Your the one who said it you back it up. I don't believe that. But this is interesting and the time frame is right. Link

Back what up ? You show me some stats that people from Massachusetts are moving to NH......no kidding. They are also moving here from NY & NJ & and the Mid Atlantic states, and just about everywhere else.....so what ? Where in your article does it show THESE people started the SB-2 movement ? A poster said people from Massachusetts have started the SB-2 movement, and I asked for some information on that, some facts.....your information about the changing demographics of NH is well known, but it contains no information about SB-2.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

SB-2 has its good & bad points, but it's a valid way to run town government. Where SB-2 has been instituted it has thrived. Very, very few NH towns have voted SB-2 out after adopting it. As for SB-2 being some Massachusetts-scam......show me some documentation for that ?

IMO SB-2 works best in towns with fast growing populations......in smaller towns, not so much.

Come on Irish Mist, I said scheme, not scam. I don't think SB-2 is a scam. I also said "Schemes like SB2 are dreamed up by Massachusetts transplants who were driven out of their home state because it has gotten so expensive", I stand behind that statement, although maybe I should have said "Massachusetts and other choke-hold blue state transplant". You have to admit, the political leanings of NH are changing. As to whether Massachusetts transplants or NH old timers wrote SB-2, it really doesn't matter, I certainly don't care.

What I do see, is the purest form of Democracy being phased out due to laziness and apathy. Schemes like SB2 add a layer of bureaucracy to the voting process, removing the spirited debate and change on the fly afforded by a town meeting. For the convenience of voting yes or no to one choice on election day, you give up the chance to get together with your neighbors and truly hammer out and fix or reject an article. Yes, I understand about meetings for articles and hearings. As far as SB2 being the answer to "special interests", I seriously doubt it.

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by ITD

Come on Irish Mist, I said scheme, not scam. I don't think SB-2 is a scam. I also said "Schemes like SB2 are dreamed up by Massachusetts transplants who were driven out of their home state because it has gotten so expensive", I stand behind that statement, although maybe I should have said "Massachusetts and other choke-hold blue state transplant". You have to admit, the political leanings of NH are changing. As to whether Massachusetts transplants or NH old timers wrote SB-2, it really doesn't matter, I certainly don't care.

What I do see, is the purest form of Democracy being phased out due to laziness and apathy. Schemes like SB2 add a layer of bureaucracy to the voting process, removing the spirited debate and change on the fly afforded by a town meeting. For the convenience of voting yes or no to one choice on election day, you give up the chance to get together with your neighbors and truly hammer out and fix or reject an article. Yes, I understand about meetings for articles and hearings. As far as SB2 being the answer to "special interests", I seriously doubt it.

There are studies that show that the majority of Massachusetts transplants are conservative, but that's up for debate. I was just concerned that you were painting everyone from away with a broad-brush. I share your concern about how NH is going blue......but I don't think SB-2 is a major problem. Folks who vote it in seem to love it. I certainly think towns with small populations don't need SB-2.

But larger, fast growing towns seem to adopt to SB-2 very well. Lol, if I had my way.....I would build a wall in Salem and stop all this growth but I'm afraid that's not to be. Every town has the right to vote SB-2 out......and I trust my fellow citizens to do just that if it is not serving them well.

You can't tell me that town-meeting does not have some serious flaws ? We have all heard of those late night votes.....and those"factions" that form. President Madison warned of factions, and town-meeting can really devolve into that situation from my experience. I like that folks have the option of SB-2. It's just another tool to help citizens get involved in government.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

There are studies that show that the majority of Massachusetts transplants are conservative, but that's up for debate. I was just concerned that you were painting everyone from away with a broad-brush. I share your concern about how NH is going blue......but I don't think SB-2 is a major problem. Folks who vote it in seem to love it. I certainly think towns with small populations don't need SB-2.

But larger, fast growing towns seem to adopt to SB-2 very well. Lol, if I had my way.....I would build a wall in Salem and stop all this growth but I'm afraid that's not to be. Every town has the right to vote SB-2 out......and I trust my fellow citizens to do just that if it is not serving them well.

You can't tell me that town-meeting does not have some serious flaws ? We have all heard of those late night votes.....and those"factions" that form. President Madison warned of factions, and town-meeting can really devolve into that situation from my experience. I like that folks have the option of SB-2. It's just another tool to help citizens get involved in government.

I really don't think town meeting has serious flaws. The flaw lies with the voters who don't show up and/or don't care. When 20 out of 1000 voters show up that is recipe for disaster. When 500 or even 250 out of 1000 show up, the shenanigans are quickly squashed.

If you don't care, your pocket will get picked. Come to think of it, if you care and beg for more taxes, you will be turned upside down and shaken until all the money falls out of your pockets. Once the Genie is out of the bottle, it is nearly impossible to put back in. Look at the Mass. income tax.

As far as transplants go, most of the ones I know personally are flaming liberals. I try to make it a point when they complain that they are bringing to NH exactly what they ran away from in Mass., high taxes, they never get it though.....

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by ITD

I really don't think town meeting has serious flaws. The flaw lies with the voters who don't show up and/or don't care. When 20 out of 1000 voters show up that is recipe for disaster. When 500 or even 250 out of 1000 show up, the shenanigans are quickly squashed.

If you don't care, your pocket will get picked. Come to think of it, if you care and beg for more taxes, you will be turned upside down and shaken until all the money falls out of your pockets. Once the Genie is out of the bottle, it is nearly impossible to put back in. Look at the Mass. income tax.

As far as transplants go, most of the ones I know personally are flaming liberals. I try to make it a point when they complain that they are bringing to NH exactly what they ran away from in Mass., high taxes, they never get it though.....

I can only go by what I see........NH folks seem to love SB-2. If it is such a bad system I think most towns would have voted it out. Gilford folks seem pleased with its recent arrival. As for transplants: this is JMO but most Massachusetts folks I know moved here to get away from taxes, and vote conservative. Most of the liberals seem to be coming up from NY &NJ & from other parts of the nation.

In the old days most people that moved here were from MA......now they are from everywhere, and they have no sense of the NH low tax history.