Let’s Talk about Cyanobacteria!

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

This is such a bummer, so sorry to read about your experience. Do you have a broad flat waterfront? If yes, planting a row of blueberry bushes or other shrubs at the shoreline will keep the geese off your land. Just leave a 3-4' opening for swimmers.

But the geese are no reason to stop pushing against fertilizer, septic, and other issues. One problem is that there are different government bodies that handle each of them. Septic are typically town rules, fertilizer currently state, I'm pretty sure Canadian Geese are subject to an international treaty. We all have to fight all these threats at once

I think everyone agrees that there are several contributing factors to the lake quality. We can’t ignore any of them in favor of one. The talking has to stop and action has to begin.

[John Mercier]

The State is septic also I believe.

But a coherent argument for change must be based on the question why certain lakes have problems and others do not?

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The State is septic also I believe.

But a coherent argument for change must be based on the question why certain lakes have problems and others do not?

What are the restrictions that exist for Squam Lake? Are they allowed to have grass around their homes? Do the septic systems have to be checked on a regular basis? Have they banned the use of fertilizer? I’ve never heard of any geese being on Squam Lake. and I’ve never heard of Squam Lake having cyano bacteria. Do the people that live there just care more than the people on Winnepesaukee and other lakes?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

What are the restrictions that exist for Squam Lake? Are they allowed to have grass around their homes? Do the septic systems have to be checked on a regular basis? Have they banned the use of fertilizer? I’ve never heard of any geese being on Squam Lake. and I’ve never heard of Squam Lake having cyano bacteria. Do the people that live there just care more than the people on Winnepesaukee and other lakes?

Actually Sue, Squam has a very serious problem of PCB contamination. The state only recommends eating no more than three meals of fish per month from that lake and that includes little Squam because of dangerously high PCB contamination. So in reality Winnipesaukee is a lot cleaner than Squam…

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

What are the restrictions that exist for Squam Lake? Are they allowed to have grass around their homes? Do the septic systems have to be checked on a regular basis? Have they banned the use of fertilizer? I’ve never heard of any geese being on Squam Lake. and I’ve never heard of Squam Lake having cyano bacteria. Do the people that live there just care more than the people on Winnepesaukee and other lakes?

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Actually Sue, Squam has a very serious problem of PCB contamination. The state only recommends eating no more than three meals of fish per month from that lake and that includes little Squam because of dangerously high PCB contamination. So in reality Winnipesaukee is a lot cleaner than Squam…

Dan

Leaving aside the specifics that could be debated endlessly, the gists of these posts are both true. The Squam community is generally more environmentally-minded than the Winnipesaukee community, but the PCB issue in Squam, not caused by the community in general, is very serious

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Leaving aside the specifics that could be debated endlessly, the gists of these posts are both true. The Squam community is generally more environmentally-minded than the Winnipesaukee community, but the PCB issue in Squam, not caused by the community in general, is very serious

Well, since PCB’s are completely man made and not natural to the environment and the only way water is contaminated by them is through reckless or purposeful release into the environment by man, I would say that someone in the “community” at some point caused this…

Since PCB’s have been banned since 1979, someone from the “glory days”, you know the glory days back when the water was so much cleaner…. caused this issue.

As an fyi…Squam has the highest concentration of PCB contamination than any other lake in NH. I would rather swim in Winnipesaukee than Squam any day of the week! While skin contact is most likely not harmful, any ingestion of contaminated water is not good.

Dan

[John Mercier]

But is the high level of PCB's keeping the geese population down?
Why doesn't Newfound have a geese issue?

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

But is the high level of PCB's keeping the geese population down?
Why doesn't Newfound have a geese issue?

The amount of food obtained from a much larger population of visitors and residents not to mention the lakeside lawns for grazing around lake Winnipesaukee !

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Well, since PCB’s are completely man made and not natural to the environment and the only way water is contaminated by them is through reckless or purposeful release into the environment by man, I would say that someone in the “community” at some point caused this…

Since PCB’s have been banned since 1979, someone from the “glory days”, you know the glory days back when the water was so much cleaner…. caused this issue.

As an fyi…Squam has the highest concentration of PCB contamination than any other lake in NH. I would rather swim in Winnipesaukee than Squam any day of the week! While skin contact is most likely not harmful, any ingestion of contaminated water is not good.

Dan

I think we agree on the central issues, so I'm confused as to why you're coming at me on this. No doubt the PCB issue was caused by one or more people in the community.

But I wrote the "community in general". I don't really count a single polluting company as as the community in general. This is similar to me not thinking of criminals as representative of the community in general.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I think we agree on the central issues, so I'm confused as to why you're coming at me on this. No doubt the PCB issue was caused by one or more people in the community.

But I wrote the "community in general". I don't really count a single polluting company as as the community in general. This is similar to me not thinking of criminals as representative of the community in general.

I wasn’t coming at you and apologize if I came across that way…we are in agreement!

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I wasn’t coming at you and apologize if I came across that way…we are in agreement!

Dan

Maybe I'm too touchy on this stuff. Cheers

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Actually Sue, Squam has a very serious problem of PCB contamination. The state only recommends eating no more than three meals of fish per month from that lake and that includes little Squam because of dangerously high PCB contamination. So in reality Winnipesaukee is a lot cleaner than Squam…

Dan

Well, this is discouraging. Does anyone know if there are actually any lakes in New Hampshire that are considered clean?

[John Mercier]

Newfound is supposed to be the cleanest.

The PCBs have been banned, but working them out of the system after it is in the system takes a lot of time and effort... effort that we just aren't willing to put forth.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Well, this is discouraging. Does anyone know if there are actually any lakes in New Hampshire that are considered clean?

I would expect Massabesic. to be clean. As a water supply, many activities have been banned for many years. I recall, accurately I hope, an application to the Clean Drinking and Groundwater fund to assist in buying shorefront for watershed protection. This fund was started by Senator Chuck Morse in 2016 with original funding from MtBE settlement money from Exxon. It does all sorts of things from outright grants to low cost revolving loans for municipal water programs. His legislation set it up as a trust so the legislature couldn't raid the money for other purposes. We (Merrimack) got a $400K matching grant to help build filter/treatment facilities for PFAS.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Descant

I would expect Massabesic. to be clean. As a water supply, many activities have been banned for many years. I recall, accurately I hope, an application to the Clean Drinking and Groundwater fund to assist in buying shorefront for watershed protection. This fund was started by Senator Chuck Morse in 2016 with original funding from MtBE settlement money from Exxon. It does all sorts of things from outright grants to low cost revolving loans for municipal water programs. His legislation set it up as a trust so the legislature couldn't raid the money for other purposes. We (Merrimack) got a $400K matching grant to help build filter/treatment facilities for PFAS.

More bad news for you…Massabesic actually has high mercury levels. This is mainly due to Tower Hill Pond which feeds into it is so polluted with Mercury that fish cannot be eaten from it. The reason for the high mercury is being downwind from the Bow power plant (coal burning) for many years before mercury filtration was in place. Actually every body of water in close proximity and southeast of the bow plant has been decimated with mercury….


Dan

[tis]

The Tuftonboro Old Home Week cardboard boat races at 19 Mile Bay have been cancelled because of cyanobacteria.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

More bad news for you…Massabesic actually has high mercury levels. This is mainly due to Tower Hill Pond which feeds into it is so polluted with Mercury that fish cannot be eaten from it. The reason for the high mercury is being downwind from the Bow power plant (coal burning) for many years before mercury filtration was in place. Actually every body of water in close proximity and southeast of the bow plant has been decimated with mercury…

That's disappointing, Dan. Need a button for that response, sort of like the "Thanks" button. Attacking this from the other direction, are there lakes where the fish ARE OK to eat without restriction? I hope nobody starts testing lobster for impurities.

[ishoot308]

Oh yes there a quite a few where it’s ok to eat the fish. Stocked fish like landlocked salmon, rainbow trout, brook trout, etc , etc, are your safest bet. If your going to eat other species like perch, bass and other natural lake reproducing fish, the smaller / younger the better as the longer they are in the water the more mercury they accumulate.

I believe NHF&G has a complete list of lakes where there are issues and what the recommendations are regarding fish consumption…

Dan

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

What are the restrictions that exist for Squam Lake? Are they allowed to have grass around their homes? Do the septic systems have to be checked on a regular basis? Have they banned the use of fertilizer? I’ve never heard of any geese being on Squam Lake. and I’ve never heard of Squam Lake having cyano bacteria. Do the people that live there just care more than the people on Winnepesaukee and other lakes?

Squam Lake has the problem of too many small sailboats.

I don't recall seeing any lawns.



But wherever will Winnipesaukee's absentee landlords put their lawns?

McMansions are rented out to multiple families--some have multiple families at the same time!

I'd be curious about Squam's geese, too. We've mostly heard about the hazardous-fish-eating issue.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

State needs to ban lawns within 50' of the water unless it's municipal with no pesticides being used such as Alton Bay or Center Harbor

This is getting ridiculous. If the homeowners aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, force them to.

[John Mercier]

The geese don't actually need it to be within 50' of water.
They like it freshly mowed. Easy to get the tender young shoots and bugs.

Same with my yard, when we mow to promote clover, the chickens next door come over and eat all the bugs... and of course leave the manure behind.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

State needs to ban lawns within 50' of the water unless it's municipal with no pesticides being used such as Alton Bay or Center Harbor

This is getting ridiculous. If the homeowners aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, force them to.

Actually, "municipal" should show the way...

[tis]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

State needs to ban lawns within 50' of the water unless it's municipal with no pesticides being used such as Alton Bay or Center Harbor

This is getting ridiculous. If the homeowners aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, force them to.

Wow! Then nobody can have a lawn because it runs off from a lot further than 50'.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

State needs to ban lawns within 50' of the water unless it's municipal with no pesticides being used such as Alton Bay or Center Harbor

This is getting ridiculous. If the homeowners aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, force them to.

Achtung, yes, property rights be damned. Hail the Collective.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[winterh]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Achtung, yes, property rights be damned. Hail the Collective.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

If your neighbor decides to dump toxic waste on his property and it seeps onto your land or the water you share would you be saying "oh well, he has property rights?" I say this as a long time libertarian who recognizes sometimes rights come into conflict

[John Mercier]

Run-off that would be true... and laws exist for that.
But the geese are really not quite the same.

The person establishing the lawn deals with the wildlife that it attracts... pretty much like any other landscape or feature. Think of it like a bear getting at your bird feeder or a skunk/racoon going for your garbage can.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by winterh

If your neighbor decides to dump toxic waste on his property and it seeps onto your land or the water you share would you be saying "oh well, he has property rights?" I say this as a long time libertarian who recognizes sometimes rights come into conflict

Yes he has property rights just like his neighbor. However in tour posited scenario he would have created a private nuisance by allowing the seepage into the neighbor’s yard and would be accountable for the damage to the neighbor’s yard. I was reacting more to the other proposal, the governmental fiat.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[tis]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Yes he has property rights just like his neighbor. However in tour posited scenario he would have created a private nuisance by allowing the seepage into the neighbor’s yard and would be accountable for the damage to the neighbor’s yard. I was reacting more to the other proposal, the governmental fiat.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

People screaming and yelling and using the lake as a bathroom as they anchor/raft is ok despite the fact it affects people.

[barndoor]

The bloom resurfaced on the northwest side of Barndoor Island this morning. Swimming is not an option as the water is truly disgusting.

[Mr. V]

I have to wonder...with these blooms recurring and being problematical, will this affect lake front property values in the future?

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I have to wonder...with these blooms recurring and being problematical, will this affect lake front property values in the future?

If people can’t recreate in and on the lake and it is a health issue as well as aesthetic . It will become a major lake front real estate issue not to mention a tourist deterrent !

[SAB1]

Just saw yesterday they have found the same algae blooms in Lake Francis up in Pittsburg. I don’t think there’s many lush lawns there.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Just saw yesterday they have found the same algae blooms in Lake Francis up in Pittsburg. I don’t think there’s many lush lawns there.

Goose plague !

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Just saw yesterday they have found the same algae blooms in Lake Francis up in Pittsburg. I don’t think there’s many lush lawns there.

Do you have a link to the story?
I couldn't find it.

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Just saw yesterday they have found the same algae blooms in Lake Francis up in Pittsburg. I don’t think there’s many lush lawns there.

It's everywhere. I heard it's even in the ocean.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by tis

It's everywhere. I heard it's even in the ocean.

You are right, tis. In the ocean, it is called red tide. And it is everywhere.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

You are right, tis. In the ocean, it is called red tide. And it is everywhere.

Is it the same as red tide? I didn't know that.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by tis

Is it the same as red tide? I didn't know that.

No -- not the same thing, although they share some similarities. Karenia brevis causes "red tide" algal blooms in salt water. Cyanobacteria is a fresh water thing. But both are triggered by elevated nutrient levels that are exacerbated by humans. And they both can release toxins.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by tis

It's everywhere. I heard it's even in the ocean.

Correct. There's loads of it just in a teaspoon of average topsoil. And it's always been in the lake...always will. The issue is the combination of nutrient loading and temperature. The more nutrients (phosphorous and nitrogen) the more growth. So, the same nutrients used on lawns, and P leaching from septic systems, fuels the growth of blooms. Simple.

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I have to wonder...with these blooms recurring and being problematical, will this affect lake front property values in the future?

The real estate prices have skyrocketed on Squam.

I don't know of a Goose problem on Squam , but I do know of only 2 lawns

[winterh]

Although there are different opinions on the best way to address the issue the folks who read this site are obviously well informed that we have a water quality problem in the lakes region. As popular as this site may be its readers are a small minority. Makes me wonder how much the average local or even waterfront home owner is actually aware of the problem. I would think that those spending 5 million plus on waterfront homes with big green lawns would want to protect their investments.

[Tyler]

Randy Owen the owner of a portion of Farm Island in Tuftonboro seems to think he has the answer, check out his Facebook page. He claims he is in contact with Erin Brockovich!

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Randy Owen the owner of a portion of Farm Island in Tuftonboro seems to think he has the answer, check out his Facebook page. He claims he is in contact with Erin Brockovich!

What, him again?

Mr. "I'll get you campers" guy?

Dismiss his ideas to the slag heap.

[erk]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Randy Owen the owner of a portion of Farm Island in Tuftonboro seems to think he has the answer, check out his Facebook page. He claims he is in contact with Erin Brockovich!

It would be cool to have Julia Roberts in the lake region