Huge Commercial Project in West Alton

[Trail Goer]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

I live in the neighborhood. It’s zoned under the “rural” category in Alton. I’m organizing an opposition to this.

Sorry I don't live in that town, so maybe the meaning is different, but I thought rural zoning was for agricultural use only? How can they get approval for a convention center without changing the zoning? I know people ask for zoning variances all the time but that's a big variance. Is the property pending sale based on this approval or is it the current owner that wants to build the convention center?

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

Sorry I don't live in that town, so maybe the meaning is different, but I thought rural zoning was for agricultural use only? How can they get approval for a convention center without changing the zoning? I know people ask for zoning variances all the time but that's a big variance. Is the property pending sale based on this approval or is it the current owner that wants to build the convention center?

It's the current owner that wants to build this commercial development. The property sold to these people in late 2022.

Another strange twist to this is that the abutting parcel to the east of this parcel (almost 90 acres) is owned by the infamous owner of West Alton Marina.

[dippasan]

Would someone with knowledge of the parcel location/property lines be able to post a Google Earth or equivalent aerial view?

Thanks

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by dippasan

Would someone with knowledge of the parcel location/property lines be able to post a Google Earth or equivalent aerial view?

Thanks

Here are a couple of images showing the general location. The yellow outline is not an accurate representation of the boundary lines. It only shows the general location of this parcel. The red outline shows the actual boundary lines.

[Broken Glass]

It will take a strong Planning Board to prevent this from happening.The Planning Board will have to come out against this change I do not envy them this wont be easy.
The vote to change the zoning is ultimately up to the voters in the town. Please hold your ground and don’t let this happen.

[DPatnaude]

Assessor map screenshot attached.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Broken Glass

It will take a strong Planning Board to prevent this from happening.The Planning Board will have to come out against this change I do not envy them this wont be easy.
The vote to change the zoning is ultimately up to the voters in the town. Please hold your ground and don’t let this happen.

Unfortunately, the money usually wins. Hoping that the folks of Alton can prevail on this one. That would be a real blight to the region.

But, hey, "progress."

[Little Bear]

This shows the abutting 87 acre parcel owned by the West Alton Marina guy. I can only assume that this is ripe for the picking given his legal situation.

[codeman671]

I was doing some digging and noted the abutting parcel owners as well. Could be a play for sure, especially being that Brian is soon to be sentenced.

Its a bit south of us, we may be able to see it from our lower driveway depending on orientation, but its pretty far off and will be up the hillside. We won't see it from the house. Awful close to the place for sale on Anthony Ave and the homes on Hermit.

I hope that Alton stands up and fights this. Being that it was purchased by a hospitality group entity I am sure they already did plenty of work on this already.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by codeman671

... I hope that Alton stands up and fights this. Being that it was purchased by a hospitality group entity I am sure they already did plenty of work on this already.

... and no doubt have an army of highly-paid attorneys on the job.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Grant

Unfortunately, the money usually wins. Hoping that the folks of Alton can prevail on this one. That would be a real blight to the region. But, hey, "progress."

When has "peace and quiet" trumped money?

[dva]

There was a good turn out last night at the meeting. Looks like people are very concerned. It is great to see people like Alton the way it is!

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by dva

There was a good turn out last night at the meeting. Looks like people are very concerned. It is great to see people like Alton the way it is!

The natives are awake and restless now. And yes, it’s great to see the support from all surrounding areas. Nobody wants this in their backyard.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

The natives are awake and restless now. And yes, it’s great to see the support from all surrounding areas. Nobody wants this in their backyard.

Thinking about this from a business sense, something doesn't add up. The costs to build this monstrosity would be huge and I am failing to see how it would bring in that much revenue to cover it. It makes me wonder if there is truly a different "end game" in mind that hasn't come to light yet.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thinking about this from a business sense, something doesn't add up. The costs to build this monstrosity would be huge and I am failing to see how it would bring in that much revenue to cover it. It makes me wonder if there is truly a different "end game" in mind that hasn't come to light yet.

Spot on, Codeman. Something smells like dead fish, and it’s not coming from the lake. Hopefully Toto will pull back the curtain so we can see who the wizard really is. Classic case of smoke and mirrors to obscure the real agenda. The abutters, neighbors and residents of Alton & Gilford will have to keep the pressure on the zoning and planning boards to make sure that they make fair and appropriate decisions.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thinking about this from a business sense, something doesn't add up. The costs to build this monstrosity would be huge and I am failing to see how it would bring in that much revenue to cover it. It makes me wonder if there is truly a different "end game" in mind that hasn't come to light yet.

I agree 100%….this one needs to be watched / stopped!

Dan

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thinking about this from a business sense, something doesn't add up. The costs to build this monstrosity would be huge and I am failing to see how it would bring in that much revenue to cover it. It makes me wonder if there is truly a different "end game" in mind that hasn't come to light yet.

I was wondering about a loop hole.
Could they lease it to a corporation as a retreat... but the corporation sub-lease it to others?

I can sort of see what they are up to, as a regular development of the property under existing zoning concepts would not allow for as many housing units, and certainly not all the sub-categories that they are embedding.

Legacy has the same problem... too much dream for the actual land.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I was wondering about a loop hole.
Could they lease it to a corporation as a retreat... but the corporation sub-lease it to others?

I can sort of see what they are up to, as a regular development of the property under existing zoning concepts would not allow for as many housing units, and certainly not all the sub-categories that they are embedding.

Legacy has the same problem... too much dream for the actual land.

They’re trying to change the zoning to something called “flexible zoning”, which would help this project move forward. The bark has to be peeled back so we can expose the true motivation and end game of these people.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by dva

There was a good turn out last night at the meeting. Looks like people are very concerned. It is great to see people like Alton the way it is!

Was there any discussion about permitted uses in the rural zone? Compliance with zoning? Special exceptions?

Unfortunately I am out of state and could not make the meeting. My wife and I are familiar with the property having hiked to the top after it was clear cut. Expansive views of the Belknap Range and of the lake. Meaning that whatever is built up there can be seen from over a wide range.

Alan

[Mr. V]

That would be a good location for a high end housing development, and also for a casino / hotel.

A casino / hotel would arguably enhance the profitability of Gunstock as well.

But the hoops the developer must jump through: my oh my.

Interesting game afoot there on the hillside.

[John Mercier]

The plan is high end housing that will be used as a type of hotel.
Casinos in NH tend to not be highly profitable.

[Reilly]

I believe that IF Jeremy Martin is involved It will be a very tastefully done project as everything he does is very nice with attention to details

[smith point boater]

Knowing little about the proposed project (which I would be against) first brings to mind some more basic questions about that area of West Alton.

- Could Cherry Valley Road (11A) even handle the short term increase in heavy equipment traffic this project will bring and who would pay for the road repairs in the end

- Could Cherry Valley Rd handle the long term increase in vehicle traffic

- Would this project ultimately lead to never ending traffic jams

- Is Cherry Valley Rd capable of having turn lanes etc that will be needed long term to alleviate traffic problems

- Will the town (the tax payers ) be required to install traffic lights at Mt Major Highway (Rte 11) and Cherry Valley Rd to handle inflow/outflow of traffic

I just see the town and ultimately the tax payers paying the price for this project and the headaches that will come with it

Just a few thoughts

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by smith point boater

Knowing little about the proposed project (which I would be against) first brings to mind some more basic questions about that area of West Alton.

- Could Cherry Valley Road (11A) even handle the short term increase in heavy equipment traffic this project will bring and who would pay for the road repairs in the end

- Could Cherry Valley Rd handle the long term increase in vehicle traffic

- Would this project ultimately lead to never ending traffic jams

- Is Cherry Valley Rd capable of having turn lanes etc that will be needed long term to alleviate traffic problems

- Will the town (the tax payers ) be required to install traffic lights at Mt Major Highway (Rte 11) and Cherry Valley Rd to handle inflow/outflow of traffic

I just see the town and ultimately the tax payers paying the price for this project and the headaches that will come with it

Just a few thoughts

The proposal shouldn't change traffic more than if he just made it house lots for sale.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The proposal shouldn't change traffic more than if he just made it house lots for sale.

I disagree. It’s a corporate event facility. How are the 200, 300, 400 or 500 corporate attendees going to get to and from the facility? By helicopter? It’s going to have a major impact on traffic and the infrastructure of both Alton and Gilford.

[John Mercier]

Shuttle service.

[Little Bear]

The money behind this project is coming from the Toast IPO. One of the founders of Toast (Grimm) is the owner of the parcel, although it's been placed in an LLC. Massachusetts billionaires bringing this blight to Alton, Gilford and Lake Winnipesaukee. The expansion will never stop with so many other large vacant land parcels around this development parcel. This is another reason why this project must be snuffed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrick...h=64587ba06842

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

The money behind this project is coming from the Toast IPO. One of the founders of Toast (Grimm) is the owner of the parcel, although it's been placed in an LLC. Massachusetts billionaires bringing this blight to Alton, Gilford and Lake Winnipesaukee. The expansion will never stop with so many other large vacant land parcels around this development parcel. This is another reason why this project must be snuffed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrick...h=64587ba06842

Yep the "big buck folks from down under" are pushing this with local help of course. It is interesting that they own a upscale lake home on Winni now, but this project is nowhere near that property. This will ruin the immediate area and make it ok to push more and more commercial projects into Alton. The noise, the lights, the traffic and the altering of zoning need to be addressed and hopefully stop this project in it's tracks. Even the expansion of West Alton Marina has been a bit of a bummer especially with the ownership now up in the air due to Brian's conviction and soon to be realized prison term.

I encourage all Alton residents to get involved and fight this effort.

[retired]

This is a major project that will affect the entire town. Any change to zoning laws to accommodate this should be voted on at town meeting. The ZBA and other town officials should not make the decision for the residents.

[John Mercier]

I think to change zoning laws you have to have a vote at town meeting.
What they may be looking for is a variance... which has a process usually involving some public input.

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by retired

This is a major project that will affect the entire town. Any change to zoning laws to accommodate this should be voted on at town meeting. The ZBA and other town officials should not make the decision for the residents.

They will not IF the local folks show up and make their feelings known. Also if they get enough "pressure" from the project owners they will cave in to the pressure. The folks who live near there and especially the abutters need to speak up and make it clear what they want.

[Descant]

Perhaps Twin Farms in Barnard VT is the business model? 300 acres, 28 cottages and suites, adults only. About $2500/night I think, depending on suite or cottage. Food, fine spirits, activities included. Eat in cottage, dining room or have a catered picnic.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

Perhaps Twin Farms in Barnard VT is the business model? 300 acres, 28 cottages and suites, adults only. About $2500/night I think, depending on suite or cottage. Food, fine spirits, activities included. Eat in cottage, dining room or have a catered picnic.

Sort of like bringing the resorts back.

[Little Bear]

A friend has informed me that there has been a new Facebook Group created to provide information about this project. Those of you on Facebook can search for
CHERRY VALLEY DEVELOPMENT ALTON/GILFORD.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

Perhaps Twin Farms in Barnard VT is the business model? 300 acres, 28 cottages and suites, adults only. About $2500/night I think, depending on suite or cottage. Food, fine spirits, activities included. Eat in cottage, dining room or have a catered picnic.

Possibly. But it sounds more like they want to rent/lease to a single entity at a time.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Was there any discussion about permitted uses in the rural zone? Compliance with zoning? Special exceptions?

Unfortunately I am out of state and could not make the meeting. My wife and I are familiar with the property having hiked to the top after it was clear cut. Expansive views of the Belknap Range and of the lake. Meaning that whatever is built up there can be seen from over a wide range.

Alan

The Zoning Board continued the meeting until March 7th. Apparently someone is trying to change the zoning to some kind of “Flexible Zoning” specifically for this project. I don’t know exactly what this is about but will research and post about it when I get more information.