Oh boy....I hate to see stories like this...

[Little Kin]

The Gilford police log categorized the 9:52 p.m. call as a “mental person,” signifying a mental health emergency.

Mental health crises are among the most common calls for police departments both nationally and locally. According to a report in The Concord Monitor, over 60% of people shot and killed by New Hampshire police over the past decade had a mental illness.

[TiltonBB]

This is why I posted that the property owner's name would tell you a lot. The name has been released.

The victim of a police shooting Sunday night was identified as Mischa Fay, age 17, by the Attorney General's Office following the results of an autopsy conducted Tuesday.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...027c94147.html

[ITD]

Mental illness is usually a lifelong thing. Stay on your meds per doctor's orders if you have an issue. This person was young and may not have been diagnosed yet, this is sad.

It says there is badge cam video, so at least we will see what happened, mostly.


I grew up in Worcester MA, there was a lot of incidents with the mentally ill in crisis with the police. A mentally ill person in crisis having an episode can be dangerous, but more often than not they are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

What happened in Worcester during late 70s into the 80s is that police, who were dealing with these calls, got special training in how to cope with these people. The result of the training was that injury incidents to police and subjects were drastically reduced when the police had a better understanding of what was going on and used the strategies to deal with people in crisis.

I don't know if NH or these towns have programs like this, but it might be worthwhile for police departments to have this type of training to help prevent these tragedies. With over 60% of the people shot by police having had mental illness histories, it may be time to investigate or update these training programs.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by ITD

Mental illness is usually a lifelong thing. Stay on your meds per doctor's orders if you have an issue. This person was young and may not have been diagnosed yet, this is sad.

It says there is badge cam video, so at least we will see what happened, mostly.


I grew up in Worcester MA, there was a lot of incidents with the mentally ill in crisis with the police. A mentally ill person in crisis having an episode can be dangerous, but more often than not they are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

What happened in Worcester during late 70s into the 80s is that police, who were dealing with these calls, got special training in how to cope with these people. The result of the training was that injury incidents to police and subjects were drastically reduced when the police had a better understanding of what was going on and used the strategies to deal with people in crisis.

I don't know if NH or these towns have programs like this, but it might be worthwhile for police departments to have this type of training to help prevent these tragedies. With over 60% of the people shot by police having had mental illness histories, it may be time to investigate or update these training programs.

I agree with you completely. This is tragic.

However, there are a couple of things I would point out.

It is one thing to discuss how to manage such a situation in a training scenario. It is completely different in an emergency situation. I would suggest even the professionals who teach such classes could mess things up in an uncontrolled and unknown situation.

In addition, while training is good and does help, it is not a certain solution. Some people in a mental health crisis simply cannot be "managed". The police walk in with very limited knowledge of the person or the situation. They have to, VERY quickly, determine what is going on and try to get control of the situation. They have to decide if the person will respond to management techniques or not and how dangerous he is. This combination of factors is a disaster waiting to happen and decisions sometimes need to be made in seconds.

The police are in a lose-lose situation.

[retired]

In the Sun today it was Merrill Fay's 17 year old son. What a tragedy for the family and the community.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by retired

In the Sun today it was Merrill Fay's 17 year old son. What a tragedy for the family and the community.

A 19:04-minute film, made two years ago w/ 49-views .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewEJFCJg494 ..... with Merrill Fay, born 1936, father of the late Mischa Fay, age 17.

..... this is so unbelievably sad with regard to what's happened in Gilford NH on Sunday, January 1, 2023, about 9:52-pm.

"Thanks for coming to visit. We'll be here one hundred years from now, too." ... Merrill Fay

Additional Information on Officer-Involved Shooting in Gilford .... January 3, 2022: http://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2023/2023...d-shooting.htm


.....

[Mr. V]

Out west lots of young men wind up dead or homeless due to a combination of underlying mental illness superimposed over drug abuse.

Meth in particular can promote aggressive behavior similar to what seems to have transpired here, but obviously that is pure speculation.

[WinterHarborGuy]

Between West Alton Marina, and Fay’s….absolutely horrible stretch for the families’ running these businesses.

Obviously, they are hugely different situations, but life-changing tragedies for many in the periphery of these events. Pretty unreal.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I agree with you completely. This is tragic.

However, there are a couple of things I would point out.

It is one thing to discuss how to manage such a situation in a training scenario. It is completely different in an emergency situation. I would suggest even the professionals who teach such classes could mess things up in an uncontrolled and unknown situation.

In addition, while training is good and does help, it is not a certain solution. Some people in a mental health crisis simply cannot be "managed". The police walk in with very limited knowledge of the person or the situation. They have to, VERY quickly, determine what is going on and try to get control of the situation. They have to decide if the person will respond to management techniques or not and how dangerous he is. This combination of factors is a disaster waiting to happen and decisions sometimes need to be made in seconds.

The police are in a lose-lose situation.

Yes, I think it comes down to the situation. Someone with a knife to someone else's throat calls for immediate action. On the other hand someone alone in a house holding a knife, there is probably no reason to rush.

I agree it's a tough situation for cops. It will be interesting to see if there is any type of training for dealing with mental illness. Hopefully the crackerjack journalists out there will find out.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by ITD

Yes, I think it comes down to the situation. Someone with a knife to someone else's throat calls for immediate action. On the other hand someone alone in a house holding a knife, there is probably no reason to rush.

I agree it's a tough situation for cops. It will be interesting to see if there is any type of training for dealing with mental illness. Hopefully the crackerjack journalists out there will find out.

Jon Decker, of the Laconia Daily Sun, wrote an article about police training for response to mentally ill crisis. It is well written and on spot. My comment above was pretty sarcastic, I didn't think a reporter would be on top of this. Kudos to Mr. Decker.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2bb05e144.html

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I agree with you completely. This is tragic. However, there are a couple of things I would point out. It is one thing to discuss how to manage such a situation in a training scenario. It is completely different in an emergency situation. I would suggest even the professionals who teach such classes could mess things up in an uncontrolled and unknown situation. In addition, while training is good and does help, it is not a certain solution. Some people in a mental health crisis simply cannot be "managed". The police walk in with very limited knowledge of the person or the situation. They have to, VERY quickly, determine what is going on and try to get control of the situation. They have to decide if the person will respond to management techniques or not and how dangerous he is. This combination of factors is a disaster waiting to happen and decisions sometimes need to be made in seconds.

The police are in a lose-lose situation.

A 30-second video where a training officer called for a Taser, but used a sidearm instead:

https://youtu.be/n9qRZhEp8P0

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by ApS

A 30-second video where a training officer called for a Taser, but used a sidearm instead:

https://youtu.be/n9qRZhEp8P0

Well, as far as I know, a taser and a police hand gun are more or less similar in shape, black color, and use by pulling the trigger so it's easy to see how a gun can get used, thinking it's a taser, in the hurried rush of a confrontation.

..... comments anyone?

Before there were tasers, i believe the police used to carry something like a 16" billy club, and probably no one ever mistook a billy club for a gun, and then proceed to shoot someone with their billy club.

Tasers involve too much technology, so police go to their hand gun when a 26" night-stick would be effective. "In New York City, the police used to use two kinds of batons depending on the time. The one for daytime was called a day-stick and was 11-inches length. Another baton, that was used at night, was 26-inches long and called a night-stick."

[ITD]

Another unpopular fact is that pot can precipitate psychotic episodes in people prone to or affected by mental illness.


Edit: This is a general statement I am making here, I just want to be clear. I have no idea what happened in this case, nor am I implying that drugs had anything to do with this. It's just an awful situation, condolences to the Fay family. I'm sure this is last thing they wanted to happen.

[camp guy]

Over arching the whole situation is the fact that mental illness has been treated as a step-child in society - the medical community doesn't really embrace it as an illness, and the civil community isn't trained to deal with it, so the tragedy is that many of those afflicted with mental illness fall through the cracks of society, both medically and civilly, and end up with additional, even more serious problems. There is no question that something has to change to interrupt this vicious cycle in order for there to be progress in the treatment of mental illness.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ITD

Another unpopular fact is that pot can precipitate psychotic episodes in people prone to or affected by mental illness.

Edit: This is a general statement I am making here, I just want to be clear. I have no idea what happened in this case, nor am I implying that drugs had anything to do with this. It's just an awful situation, condolences to the Fay family. I'm sure this is last thing they wanted to happen.

From WebMD:

Cannabis may cause schizophrenia symptoms to start earlier in life, too. Typically, men show signs of the disorder in their late teens to early 20s, and women in their late 20s to early 30s. Using marijuana may make symptoms show up as much as 3 years earlier.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I give the officers the benefit of the doubt, but from the OP it is way too early to know if they did a good job, or if the shooting was justified but they could have defused the situation without more risk, or if the shooting was not justified

Gilford P.D. dispatched two officers.

ONE officer can't be expected to operate both a Taser and a handgun.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Tasers involve too much technology, so police go to their hand gun when a 26" night-stick would be effective.

Do I remember correctly that a New Hampshire bear can be fought-off using a broom?