Moultonborough Budget and Warrants town Meeting next week Tuesday and Saturday

[Sue Doe-Nym]

The people who are pushing this are mainly the parents of school age children. The per capita expenditure for school exceeds $30k per year….and if that’s not enough, now we are expected to entertain the entire family at taxpayer expense?It’s a really terrible idea….we don’t have enough residents to support such an enterprise. We keep hearing that other towns have community centers that are underutilized and are putting the towns in deficit situations. Why would we be different? Those who have posted in support of a commercial effort by those who want this are on the right track, imo. There is no reason why taxpayers should have to bear the burden ….and don’t forget, there are many nonresident taxpayers who don’t even have a vote. Taking unfair advantage of your neighbors is not an admirable trait.

[John Mercier]

Actually, the non-residents knew before they purchased.

But the voting pattern shows that it isn't even getting a super majority of support from the residents that vote.

[phoenix]

i have been there for 30 years and I bet when a realtor shows a property to a buyer they dont say oh by the way if a rec center gets approved your taxes will go up a lot. This year they tried a "bob and weave" put up just enough that it didnt require a bond and 60% vote and it still didnt pass

[John Mercier]

I'm sure they don't.
But I have to believe that a buyer understands that taxation and regulation is fluid.

Life Happens.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

That is true, but it’s also a fact that many town residents have said in public meetings “Let the waterfront people and non residents pay for it!” We have actually heard people say it. While it’s a terrible attitude, it’s fairly prevalent.

[John Mercier]

It always will be.
It has been that way since I was a boy.

It may seem more prominent now due to the flamboyance, but it was always there.

I don't see it getting better in the future. Though we may have some short term downturns over the next decade... I suspect that property in the area will rise in value - and lake frontage will see the most rise in value.

With what I see every day... I suspect before I pass... all the little camps/cottages on the Big Lake - and most of the others - will be homes on the smallest lots permitted, with footprints as large as the lot will permit rising up with glass window walls toward the lakes as tall as the code will permit.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It always will be.
It has been that way since I was a boy.

It may seem more prominent now due to the flamboyance, but it was always there.

I don't see it getting better in the future. Though we may have some short term downturns over the next decade... I suspect that property in the area will rise in value - and lake frontage will see the most rise in value.

With what I see every day... I suspect before I pass... all the little camps/cottages on the Big Lake - and most of the others - will be homes on the smallest lots permitted, with footprints as large as the lot will permit rising up with glass window walls toward the lakes as tall as the code will permit.

That's exactly what has happened in Hillsborough and Rockingham Counties. 200 acre ponds surrounded by tiny camos are now surrounded by year round homes and the taxpayers had to foot the bill to bring in sewer and water to ponds where they no longer have public access.

[fatlazyless]

Loon .... www.mtnclub.com/classes/ ..... and ...... Waterville ..... www.wmacwv.com ..... have good indoor swimming ...... so, where in the Moultonborough-Center Harbor-Meredith area can I swim laps from October 1 to June 15 when the big lake, Lake Winnipesaukee, is too cold?

Is there a Moultonborough hotel-motel, somewhere, with a good large indoor pool, 82-degree clean water, and large windows that let in the early morning sunshine?

The http://www.midstatehealth.org/servic...s-and-fitness/ 90-degree pool in Plymouth, up above Walmart on the left, used to teach swimming classes for young children, and lead fitness classes for adults but unfortunately, Pemi Baker Community Health ...... now, Mid-State Health discontinued these well attended pool classes due to the Covid pandemic in March, 2020.

Pemi Baker Community Health ....... now, Mid-State Health used to have a a really really good teacher named Liz who taught all these young local children how-to-swim and lead the adult water exercise classes. Mid-State will hopefully be able to re-hire Liz and get her back in their pool as this Covid pandemic shrivels up and dies away ...... arrgghhh! ......

And, 45-minutes drive north of Moultonborough, there is ..... open year 'round, indoor water park ........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtTiZuXCHJg ....... Kahuna Laguna, North Conway

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It always will be.
It has been that way since I was a boy.

It may seem more prominent now due to the flamboyance, but it was always there.

I don't see it getting better in the future. Though we may have some short term downturns over the next decade... I suspect that property in the area will rise in value - and lake frontage will see the most rise in value.

With what I see every day... I suspect before I pass... all the little camps/cottages on the Big Lake - and most of the others - will be homes on the smallest lots permitted, with footprints as large as the lot will permit rising up with glass window walls toward the lakes as tall as the code will permit.

I wouldn't be so sure of that per say. The cost of floating a second piece of property is getting more and more expensive and because of that fewer can afford to do it. At some point that has a way of capping how far prices can go. As the burden of who pays for what continues to shift to those who "can afford it" and away from the masses, that top end will continue to shrink as those that have something are being financially targeted.

[John Mercier]

In a closed system, but we aren't in a closed system.

Also from a valuation standpoint, it makes no difference whether you are resident or non-resident.

But increase in valuations also have to take into account STR options... which expand the opportunity.

It has been going like this for over fifty years... bumps along the way... but always the lakefront properties have gone up in valuation more than the back lot properties.

The lots get smaller to keep the costs down... the homes grow to fit the maximum allowed on the lot... and windows toward the lake size take up more of that wall. We are just manufacturing much large window options than what I had available in the past.

And with the engineered wood offsetting the need for steel beam supports... there is even more savings that promote the larger window walls.

Descant... because as much as people think things are expensive here - they are cheap in relation to other desirable locations.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I wouldn't be so sure of that per say. The cost of floating a second piece of property is getting more and more expensive and because of that fewer can afford to do it. At some point that has a way of capping how far prices can go. As the burden of who pays for what continues to shift to those who "can afford it" and away from the masses, that top end will continue to shrink as those that have something are being financially targeted.

Sort of. But at current price levels, the real "cap" on waterfront real estate is the stock market...which is not capped. Pretty much nobody buying a $2MM+ second home is thinking about affordability with respect to mortgage payment and taxes. It's more a question of how much a person has at Fidelity and other long term financial issues.

[John Mercier]

Stock market has been down...
I am still in design mode for homes that have significant square footage, height, and glazed area.
These are recent projects that just started.

For the most part, I don't think the buyers see them as second homes... but retirement homes that are being prepared for. Some are very well suited for that... while others seem to not be completely thought out.

The generational camps/cottages tend to be smaller with more basic materials... those are second homes that will stay in the family over time.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The generational camps/cottages tend to be smaller with more basic materials... those are second homes that will stay in the family over time.

I hope this is true--they are gems. But your previous post predicted these are going to disappear.

One related dynamic here--if the modestly well-off owner of a camp sees a $2MM gain on the value of his cabin--"OMG--I'm rich!" is a reasonable reaction, and he might really appreciate what that cash can do for his retirement. But if a person who was already wealthy sees a $2MM gain on his grander lake home, it does not necessarily change his financial position or thinking. I don't really know the answer here, but this at least suggests that larger homes may turn over less than smaller homes

[John Mercier]

The generational homes don't just disappear due to someone selling them.
Generations that inherit the smaller camps/cottages, but have an extrovert emotionally-based personality tend to play keep-up-with-the-Jones (its the basis of marketing).

They change them and grow them until they are no longer able to be supported by the next generation.

I think I read an article that about 70% of families would lose their wealth by the second generation, and 90% by the third.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

We have heard more horror stories about brothers/sisters who inherit property, usually vacation homes…..feuds over improvements to the property, scheduling problems, who is responsible for what, and endless beefs about everything related to the property. It appears that compromise happens only rarely, which is a shame.

[Descant]

PPP comes from PPP.

Those who think of themselves as a single generation will lose. Those who plan for multi generations will do just fine. We all chipped in (2 generations, after the establishment donor) to establish an endowment so future generations won't be asked to financially participate. It took 30 years, but now the kids who are under 20 will be OK for their next generation. The trust makes it almost impossible for any one person to force a sale, and they can't pledge their share as an asset for any purpose.

[tummyman]

Consider purchasing this simple to read book if you have property that you want to preserve for the future...

Saving the Family Cottage: Creative Ways to Preserve Your Cottage, Cabin, Camp, or Vacation Home for Future Generations
Hollander Attorney, Stuart J. Cost = $28-30 on Amazon.

It is a very informative book...easy to read and understand. Then find yourself a good lawyer.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

PPP comes from PPP.

Those who think of themselves as a single generation will lose. Those who plan for multi generations will do just fine. We all chipped in (2 generations, after the establishment donor) to establish an endowment so future generations won't be asked to financially participate. It took 30 years, but now the kids who are under 20 will be OK for their next generation. The trust makes it almost impossible for any one person to force a sale, and they can't pledge their share as an asset for any purpose.

They don't always get sold... the new generation turns them into the same properties as they see next door.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

PPP comes from PPP.

Those who think of themselves as a single generation will lose. Those who plan for multi generations will do just fine. We all chipped in (2 generations, after the establishment donor) to establish an endowment so future generations won't be asked to financially participate. It took 30 years, but now the kids who are under 20 will be OK for their next generation. The trust makes it almost impossible for any one person to force a sale, and they can't pledge their share as an asset for any purpose.

Very interesting. If it's not prying too much:

How many people in each generation?

How do/will you govern time allocations and other issues?

Any other advice for families considering this?

Thanks