Virus Expert Just Said These States in Trouble

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I give you the link to the CDC study on Ptown... and yet you dismiss precisely what it says! You claim the vax reduces infection, yet despite MA having a 69% vaccination rate at that time, out of the 469 people who contracted Covid in this incident, 346 (74%) were fully vaxxed! 74%! The CDC study found similar viral loads in vaxxed/unvaxxed people, indicating that despite being vaxxed, you can still transmit Covid! You dismiss the Ptown outbreak as "moronic and unusual"... However, Ptown was studied precisely because it represents a typical large gathering!

The US currently has an average vax rate of 59%... yet we have had more infections this year than last year. With a 59% vax rate one would think it would be much lower.

You cannot have it both ways! If the CDC is to be believed, then the message on the CDC website that states despite being fully vaccinated you can still catch & spread Covid is truthful... and Ptown outbreak backs that message up!

The ONLY thing the vax is good at is keeping a person's symptoms relatively mild (if any symptoms) and out of the hospital... thus conserving an already low resource (medical care) and $$$ that would have to pay for it. Unfortunately, the vax has had little effect on the lost time due to quarantine and the affect that lost time has on the economy. A scary sidebar is an asymptomatic vaxxed person spreading the virus without knowing.

Woodsy

It's not that I claim the vax reduces infections, it's that clinical trials prove it.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that if any vaxxed person becomes infected, that disproves the vaccines. This is ridiculous--nobody has said the vaccines are perfect. If, just for example, you read that a vaccine is 90% effective, that means that (all else being equal) a vaccinated person has reduced his chance of infection by only 90% compared to an unvaxxed person with the same lifestyle and level of exposure. It should be obvious that this is extraordinarily good.

But this is all exposure dependent--if a vaxxed person amps up his exposure, he also amps up his chance of getting covid. I don't know if you've ever been to a crowded bar or dance club that caters to singles, or maybe seen one on TV? These extremely tight quarters with hundreds of sweating heavy breathers all trying to maximize their contact with others. This was not tea and crumpets on the beach.

Get vaxxed. Stay out of mosh pits

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's not that I claim the vax reduces infections, it's that clinical trials prove it.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that if any vaxxed person becomes infected, that disproves the vaccines. This is ridiculous--nobody has said the vaccines are perfect. If, just for example, you read that a vaccine is 90% effective, that means that (all else being equal) a vaccinated person has reduced his chance of infection by only 90% compared to an unvaxxed person with the same lifestyle and level of exposure. It should be obvious that this is extraordinarily good.

But this is all exposure dependent--if a vaxxed person amps up his exposure, he also amps up his chance of getting covid. I don't know if you've ever been to a crowded bar or dance club that caters to singles, or maybe seen one on TV? These extremely tight quarters with hundreds of sweating heavy breathers all trying to maximize their contact with others. This was not tea and crumpets on the beach.

Get vaxxed. Stay out of mosh pits

Has anyone seen data or information on how vaccinated vs. unvaccinated have behaved in terms of risk exposure? Specifically, do vaccinated people take more risks and, as such, have a higher likelihood of being exposed in the first place?

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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Has anyone seen data or information on how vaccinated vs. unvaccinated have behaved in terms of risk exposure? Specifically, do vaccinated people take more risks and, as such, have a higher likelihood of being exposed in the first place?

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I sorta,maybe, know what you’re asking. But in evaluating ones risk exposure, regardless of what the vaccinated do, their risk for a particular activity, in terms of death and hospitalization, will be less than the unvaccinated.

The REAL risk takers are the unvaccinated.

But there is a difference between real risk and perceived risk. The person who believes his magic feather will protect him from Covid is not really a “risk taker” by exposing himself to the virus.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I sorta,maybe, know what you’re asking. But in evaluating ones risk exposure, regardless of what the vaccinated do, their risk for a particular activity, in terms of death and hospitalization, will be less than the unvaccinated.

The REAL risk takers are the unvaccinated.

But there is a difference between real risk and perceived risk. The person who believes his magic feather will protect him from Covid is not really a “risk taker” by exposing himself to the virus.

I appreciate the nuance, but I was looking more for generalities. For example, I went to a comedy show (Gary Gulman) in Boston last week that required proof of vaccination and mask wearing. In that scenario, "vaccinated" people (I'm assuming some weren't really) were increasing their odds of exposure in a way that unvaccinated were not.

Also, are more of those unmasked people in public spaces vaccinated people who are more confident or is there a relationship between "safety minded" people and masks in general...even after being vaccinated?

So many questions!

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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I appreciate the nuance, but I was looking more for generalities. For example, I went to a comedy show (Gary Gulman) in Boston last week that required proof of vaccination and mask wearing. In that scenario, "vaccinated" people (I'm assuming some weren't really) were increasing their odds of exposure in a way that unvaccinated were not.

Also, are more of those unmasked people in public spaces vaccinated people who are more confident or is there a relationship between "safety minded" people and masks in general...even after being vaccinated?

So many questions!

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Why do you assume some individuals are lying about their vaccine status? Sitting in a crowded theater enjoying a comedy show this time of year is a risk you are willing to take. Many of us wouldn’t take pandemic or not


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Why do you assume some individuals are lying about their vaccine status? Sitting in a crowded theater enjoying a comedy show this time of year is a risk you are willing to take. Many of us wouldn’t take pandemic or not


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I don't know how widespread it is, but I've been told by people they've been vaccinated only to find out later they weren't, so I'm assuming that applies to some in general.

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[Garcia]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I don't know how widespread it is, but I've been told by people they've been vaccinated only to find out later they weren't, so I'm assuming that applies to some in general.

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Like Aaron Rodgers? Oh wait, he said he was immunized...

[Garcia]

But seriously, I know more than one fully vaccinated person who tested positive with no symptoms. Their concern is not for themselves but instead for the unvaccinated and/or high risk people they come into contact with. One is a doctor, the other an educator in an elementary school where children can only now be vaccinated. I applaud their willingness to take precautions to protect others. Until this happened so close to me I was getting tired of the precautions I have been putting up with for so long. Now, as I look at my vaccinated and boosted parents who are very high risk, I am grateful for the steps so many are taking to protect not themselves but others and will continue to choose to do the same.

[fatlazyless]

Well ...... organized indoor pickleball run by the local town recreation depts is happening. I play about three or four times per week with no one wearing a mask and no vaccination requirement. No one has asked to see my CVS official Triple-Vaxx government vaccination card to get inside the gym, yet. When you play pickleball the dynamics and socialization involved whomps the hell out of any stray virus strands alive inside the large indoor gymnasium and the covid doesnt have no chance to make contact with a pickleball player! ......

Hey ...... what the hay ..... iff'n I actually get whomped by the covid ...... I'm think'n it will backfire in a good way ...... and whomp the holy hell out of my tinnitus. Covid trumps tinnitus ...... and I come out the big winner! Weeeeooooo ......

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Has anyone seen data or information on how vaccinated vs. unvaccinated have behaved in terms of risk exposure? Specifically, do vaccinated people take more risks and, as such, have a higher likelihood of being exposed in the first place?

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I haven't seen any data on that. I don't tend to socialize outside of work; but spend a lot of hours there. I think for my breakthrough it was more a matter of the number of people that work closely together and the number that finally came down with it after all those hours together. When some started showing some pretty strong signs of being sick, I have to admit we didn't react as quickly as we should have.