The Tax Man Cometh !

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by jeffk

The way I look at it, the rules by which property is assessed and taxed have been in place for quite a while. Businesses and non residents don't have a vote in the town budget and that is nothing new. Nor is it practical that they should. If non residents voted, they could shrink the budget to save themselves $$$ and face no significant impact. The residents would be stuck with the negative results. Non residents CHOOSE to be here. If they don't like the impact of town spending, they can leave. Further, the biggest impact on shifting taxes to the waterfront owners is not, I believe, the town budget, but instead other non residents bidding up property in a hot real estate market. Your assessed value is impacted by the increased prices they are willing to pay. YOUR property has increased potential value in the current market and THAT is what we are taxed on, estimated current value of our property. You might perceive that your increased value being taxed is "unfair" but that is how it works and has worked.

If you don't like the property tax system in NH, try Vermont or Maine. They have nice vacation property as well.

I'm not saying complaining people should leave but it feels like they sat down at a Poker game and are complaining that the rules are not like those of a game of Bridge.

I believe if you as an individual, not a business, owns a property in a different location as your primary residence you should be able to vote in the locals elections only affecting that property directly. as in i am a non resident in Laconia, so I should be able to vote on Laconia related only. Not state level nor Federal level because you do that at your primary.

Seems to be forgotten that at one time when it was not done on a ballot but in a town hall event or something like that non residents were allowed

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by AC2717

I believe if you as an individual, not a business, owns a property in a different location as your primary residence you should be able to vote in the locals elections only affecting that property directly. as in i am a non resident in Laconia, so I should be able to vote on Laconia related only. Not state level nor Federal level because you do that at your primary.

Seems to be forgotten that at one time when it was not done on a ballot but in a town hall event or something like that non residents were allowed

LOL well the nice thing is when it becomes illegal to do any kind of ID checking to vote, that will be your invitation to have your voice heard. Just wait, it's coming soon.

[Descant]

Newbies and non-residents may not realize it, but we're only about 25 years removed from"traditional" town meetings where you had to be there on the second Tuesday in March and spend 3-4 hours in the gym, in person, to vote. The ambulance, fire dept and police dept all had large volunteer components as did the library and the schools. These volunteers made everything work so that non-residents could enjoy their hunting or ski cabin or their lake camp. Selectmen, county delegation and state reps and senators are all volunteers too. Coaches and team leaders build parks and ball fields so you have parks to play in and swim at or cross-country ski. The volunteer conservation commission buys and protects land so you can hunt or snowmobile. All this and more, and you think you should be able to vote just because you pay taxes? That's B*%%$^!T. C'mon, man.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Newbies and non-residents may not realize it, but we're only about 25 years removed from"traditional" town meetings where you had to be there on the second Tuesday in March and spend 3-4 hours in the gym, in person, to vote. The ambulance, fire dept and police dept all had large volunteer components as did the library and the schools. These volunteers made everything work so that non-residents could enjoy their hunting or ski cabin or their lake camp. Selectmen, county delegation and state reps and senators are all volunteers too. Coaches and team leaders build parks and ball fields so you have parks to play in and swim at or cross-country ski. The volunteer conservation commission buys and protects land so you can hunt or snowmobile. All this and more, and you think you should be able to vote just because you pay taxes? That's B*%%$^!T. C'mon, man.

We raised our kids in a town with Town Meetings, praised endlessly as pure democracy. They actually are less democratic. Families with kids can't send two parents for 3 or so hours 2-3 mights in a row. People who work nights can't vote at all. Meetings were dominated by retirees with nothing to do.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We raised our kids in a town with Town Meetings, praised endlessly as pure democracy. They actually are less democratic. Families with kids can't send two parents for 3 or so hours 2-3 mights in a row. People who work nights can't vote at all. Meetings were dominated by retirees with nothing to do.

We now have too many people, although years ago we had 4,000 people at one meeting, three gyms all connected with big TV and audio. In the "old" days the Girl Scouts provided babysitting. As things progressed, meetings were televised so one parent could stay home and watch and then swap places for ballot votes on bonds or anything that 5 others petitioned for a ballot vote. Some towns meet on Saturdays. We tried that and it was voted down. The overall point was that there is more to being a resident than just mailing in a ballot. To me, you need to take some ownership and participate. And, traditional town meeting or some other plan, there are just some folks who don't vote. That's their right too.
BTW, the retirees who had nothing to do were heavily outnumbered by whoever had a project or a pay raise on the ballot. The original special interest group bloc.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Descant

Newbies and non-residents may not realize it, but we're only about 25 years removed from"traditional" town meetings where you had to be there on the second Tuesday in March and spend 3-4 hours in the gym, in person, to vote. The ambulance, fire dept and police dept all had large volunteer components as did the library and the schools. These volunteers made everything work so that non-residents could enjoy their hunting or ski cabin or their lake camp. Selectmen, county delegation and state reps and senators are all volunteers too. Coaches and team leaders build parks and ball fields so you have parks to play in and swim at or cross-country ski. The volunteer conservation commission buys and protects land so you can hunt or snowmobile. All this and more, and you think you should be able to vote just because you pay taxes? That's B*%%$^!T. C'mon, man.

Hey there, Descant...watch your language! 🤓 I agree with you. Anyone who wants to vote locally has the option of declaring his NH property a primary residence and can then vote locally. It’s a choice people make when they fork over the big bucks when they buy [waterfront] property here. I actually have not heard non-resident taxpayers complain.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Hey there, Descant...watch your language! 🤓

Sorry. Sometimes "C'mon man" just flows off my fingertips. If people are offended by that phrase, I apologize.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Descant

Sorry. Sometimes "C'mon man" just flows off my fingertips. If people are offended by that phrase, I apologize.

No offense taken...just poking atcha.

[TiltonBB]

The small town Town Meeting is truly a great form of democracy. Every voter can ask questions of anyone with information about any budget item.

When you question the police budget the Police Chief and maybe the Finance Committee Chairman stand up to explain the numbers and the reasons behind them. The same is true with every other department and budget line item from the school department to the DPW. Someone will answer your questions.

One of the down sides to this is people with a vested interest in some individual item may pack the meeting and sway the vote. For example: When the Fire Department wants to add two Firefighters, all the Firefighters, and their spouses and their neighbors show up and skew the vote.

Some residents get very involved, others are not aware of most everything going on in their town. Their only concern is that their street gets plowed when it snows and what day their rubbish gets picked up.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The small town Town Meeting is truly a great form of democracy. Every voter can ask questions of anyone with information about any budget item.

When you question the police budget the Police Chief and maybe the Finance Committee Chairman stand up to explain the numbers and the reasons behind them. The same is true with every other department and budget line item from the school department to the DPW. Someone will answer your questions.

One of the down sides to this is people with a vested interest in some individual item may pack the meeting and sway the vote. For example: When the Fire Department wants to add two Firefighters, all the Firefighters, and their spouses and their neighbors show up and skew the vote.

Some residents get very involved, others are not aware of most everything going on in their town. Their only concern is that their street gets plowed when it snows and what day their rubbish gets picked up.

That's the point. If it is important to you, you show up and vote, and bring friends to vote. If it is less important, as Flying Scot suggests, you don't show up, for whatever reason, work, babysitter etc.
At town meeting, the Fire truck is outside the door so they can vote, not because they think the school will explode. Or, so they can sell sandwiches to raise money for a new engine. This is real democracy. As is the ham and bean supper to raise money for a new ambulance, etc. This stuff still happens west of I-495, too. Don't pretend it doesn't. Nationally, something like 60% of fire departments are volunteer.

[tis]

I agree. The majority of the people don't show up at town meeting. A lot more vote when it's a SB2 town.

[Flylady]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The small town Town Meeting is truly a great form of democracy. Every voter can ask questions of anyone with information about any budget item.

When you question the police budget the Police Chief and maybe the Finance Committee Chairman stand up to explain the numbers and the reasons behind them. The same is true with every other department and budget line item from the school department to the DPW. Someone will answer your questions.

One of the down sides to this is people with a vested interest in some individual item may pack the meeting and sway the vote. For example: When the Fire Department wants to add two Firefighters, all the Firefighters, and their spouses and their neighbors show up and skew the vote.

Some residents get very involved, others are not aware of most everything going on in their town. Their only concern is that their street gets plowed when it snows and what day their rubbish gets picked up.

In my town close to 70% of the tax collected comes from lakefront property. Many locals off the water forgot that their taxes are much lower and enjoy many benefits because of the Lakes. When Covid became an issue the locals started to harass waterfront owners who are not residents. After a month of people telling the non-residents to stay home someone did the math. They pointed out to the locals how much of their business was supported by the lake residents and what their taxes would look like without them. Many did not realize that their taxes are unusually low because of the "non resident seasonal". Thankfully they backed off when they realized they were only hurting their own pocketbooks.