gas prices on the lake

[Cobalt]

I heard that some marinas are selling fuel for marine application without ethanol. Ethanol blended fuels may cause some problems in marine applications as discussed in other posts. Does anyone know which marinas are not using ethanol blended fuels?

[Airwaves]

I'd like to know the answer to that one as well, but if a station is using ethanol it has to be posted at the pump, so look for a sticker that breaks down the gaoline content on each pump.

Usually the problems happen in boats with fiberglass tanks.

Cobalt...
I have a 1990 Cobalt and I don't know what the tank is made from. I assume from your "Handle" that you own a Cobalt as well. Do you know if we have fiberglass, aluminum or plastic fuel tanks?

[bigdog]

I bought gas down in Roberts Cove for $3.15, but that was more than a week ago. Oh.... by the way.... they don't take plastic payment ! Everyone on the boat that day, had to pull their funds together to pay the bill. Sort of embarassing.......

[Airwaves]

Did they tell you up front it was cash only, or wait until you filled your tank?

[jrc]

they have a sign that says "no plastic", I guess "cash only" would have been too clear.

[Cobalt]

Airwaves,

I do not have a good answer to your question, but assume it is either plastic or aluminum. You are right in your assumption. I run a 96 Cobalt.

[jrc]

Cobalt, Airwaves, can't you see the fuel tanks if you open the engine compartment? Most boats in the Cobalt size range have the fuel tanks pretty close to the engines. Follow the fuel fill or vent line. If you see metal or polyethelene then ethanol won't be an issue. If you have any doubt, call Cobalt. You won't be able to avoid ethanol for long.

[Cobalt]

Thanks jrc, I will check the next time up at the Lake. My concern is not with the tank, but some of the other problems associated with burning ethanol such as burning hotter and mixing with water.

[jrc]

I was just thinking about the fiberglass fuel tank issues. All the other ethanol issues are not as simple.

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I'd like to know the answer to that one as well, but if a station is using ethanol it has to be posted at the pump, so look for a sticker that breaks down the gaoline content on each pump.

Usually the problems happen in boats with fiberglass tanks.

Cobalt...
I have a 1990 Cobalt and I don't know what the tank is made from. I assume from your "Handle" that you own a Cobalt as well. Do you know if we have fiberglass, aluminum or plastic fuel tanks?

I have a Cobalt also (a 1994 272) and NO idea what the gas tank is made of, guess I always assumed aluminum. Guess I'll have to call Cobalt, that was a good idea. What model do you run?

[Cobalt]

Hey Waterbaby,

If you are asking me the question, I have a 1996 Model 253.

Cobalt

[Weekend Pundit]

At the moment, reformulated gasoline is sold only in Rockingham, Hillsborough, Strafford counties, and parts of Merrimack County. Reformulated gasolines include those with 10% ethanol. Reformulated gasoline is not required in the remaining counties and, to the best of my knowledge, not sold there either. So for the time being we won't be seeing ethanol in gasoline at the street or marine pumps.

Whether that will remain true for any length of time is unknown, at least by me.

[LIforrelaxin]

Weekend, where where you able to find out the information as to what counties where using ethonal in there gas....I assume it was some website out there.........

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

At the moment, reformulated gasoline is sold only in Rockingham, Hillsborough, Strafford counties, and parts of Merrimack County. Reformulated gasolines include those with 10% ethanol. Reformulated gasoline is not required in the remaining counties and, to the best of my knowledge, not sold there either. So for the time being we won't be seeing ethanol in gasoline at the street or marine pumps.

Whether that will remain true for any length of time is unknown, at least by me.

Not sure if I'm remembering this all quite correctly but ....

The Clean Air Act (1990) mandated the use of special gasolines in those areas where air quality was considered "bad". The result was the use of MTBE as an oxygenate, supposedly to trick the cars using it into buring more leanly. While possibly working for carburated engines, I think that by the time this was implemented modern engine control & feedback systems and fuel injection systems negated any noticable improvement via oxygenates. In some places ethanol was used in place of MTBE because it was cheaper to do so.

More recently the Senate passed a bill that mandated gas refiners use something like 4 billion gallons of ethanol in 2006 increasing to ~8 billion in 2012.

Now I'm not sure if this is good (MTBE is gone) or bad ($$,?air quality?) but it's likely we'll see more ethanol mixed gas (E-gas) in the future as a result. Ethanol can definitely dissolve different stuff than gas did and hence the problems with old fiberglass fuel tanks. I doubt any new boat will have such problems. I don't worry much about engine temps; boat engines run at lower temps then do car engines. So for me anyway, I can't forsee any issue in that regard. Conceivably any increase combustion temp might increase the efficiency to help offset the decrease in energy content. At worst the fuel injection map may have to be re-mapped. Collecting water (in the fuel dock's tanks) is a concern, not too sure how big a one. I can recall only once in the last 5 years where I tanked up and got water in the gas. The answer was "dry gas", which is alcohol. California was pushing against the RFS bill above, claiming air quality would be negatively impacted due higher evaporative emissions from E-gas in their high temp enviroment. What'll happen in NH boats in the summer-time ? Will E-gas (if it makes it's way into boats in a widespread fashion) increase smog ? I dunno.

I'll say whether we see E-gas at the boat gas docks or not all depends on whether it's cheaper to make it vs having 2 different blends around. If E-gas proponents are correct and it's cheaper than normal gas, we'll end up seeing it everywhere. I bet they're wrong but we may still see it, because if it's no more expensive, it'll be less hassle to distribute 1 type of "gas".

[Cobalt]

I spoke to a tech at Cobalt Boats regarding ethanol in fuel and was told that Merc and Volvo do not recommend using ethanol blended fuels in their engines. This includes recent models. Although, the engine manufacturers feel that a 10% blend would not cause major problems. They strongly recommend against using the E85 blended fuel which some new cars are designed to accept.

The tech also said that Cobalt never used fiberglass gas tanks in any of their boats.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

...I spoke to a tech at Cobalt Boats regarding ethanol in fuel and was told that Merc and Volvo do not recommend using ethanol blended fuels in their engines. This includes recent models. Although, the engine manufacturers feel that a 10% blend would not cause major problems. They strongly recommend against using the E85 blended fuel which some new cars are designed to accept...

Volvo Penta's official policy on ethanol blended fuels.

Mercruiser's official policy on ethanol blended fuels can be read here.

Skip

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Skip

Volvo Penta's official policy on ethanol blended fuels.

Mercruiser's official policy on ethanol blended fuels can be read here.

Skip

Thanks Skip, this comes in handy. I know if Ethanol is used in the fuel blend, it must be clearly noted on the pumps.

[Weekend Pundit]

I saw $33.5 at Fay's, $3.24 at Thurston's, $3.35 at Channel Marine, $3.34 at Irwin, and $3.02 at Lakeport Landing Marina.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I spoke to a tech at Cobalt Boats regarding ethanol in fuel and was told that Merc and Volvo do not recommend using ethanol blended fuels in their engines. This includes recent models. Although, the engine manufacturers feel that a 10% blend would not cause major problems. They strongly recommend against using the E85 blended fuel which some new cars are designed to accept.

The tech also said that Cobalt never used fiberglass gas tanks in any of their boats.

Most normal pump gas is or will soon be E10 which is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. Most modern engines will run on this. For most engines it's close enough to 100% gas.

E85 is 85% ethanol and only 15% gasoline. You can only use this is your vehicle is specifically design for it. Some very new cars will run on this stuff, but the cars are clearly labeled. As far as I know, no one make a boat engine that will run on E85. This isn't a matter of E85 might cause problems, your boat engine just won't run on E85 at all.

[Cobalt]

Thanks Skip,

The websites are very informative. It certainly seems far from a ringing endorsement by Merc and Volvo for using ethanol blended fuels in their engines.