New Cars with a Turbo and Start Stop

iw8surf · 12-31-2020, 03:14 PM

I’ll never own a car again with out keyless entry/start again... leave the keys in my pocket I walk right up and the doors unlock, push button to start... great, Y’all living in 1990

Descant · 12-31-2020, 04:42 PM

Gasoline turbos aren't new. I had a 1984 Volvo turbo. Great car, traded it at 85000 miles when I needed a van for a wheelchair. I don't have s/s, but my friend has start/stop. Aggravating, mostly shuts it off. For many years, I mostly drove convertibles, so I rarely locked the car anyway. The fob is harder to carry when you normally have a key ring with a dozen keys. My office has a fob security system, better security and you can just reprogram the locks when somebody joins or leaves, but I'd rather a keypad instead of something I have to carry, whether building or car.

tis · 12-31-2020, 05:17 PM

I love the start, stop. My significant other hates it. It's funny how you either love it or hate it. I love the keyless too. My old car doesn't have it and I am always hunting for the key to put in the ignition.

rick35 · 12-31-2020, 06:30 PM

We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.

jeffk · 01-01-2021, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick35

We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.

That seems like a big annoyance around here. 93 Octane is not available at most gas stations. I'd hate to be driving around and not only have to keep track if I am getting low on fuel but also WHERE I might be able to get it and whether I have enough gas remaining to get there.

rick35 · 01-03-2021, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

That seems like a big annoyance around here. 93 Octane is not available at most gas stations. I'd hate to be driving around and not only have to keep track if I am getting low on fuel but also WHERE I might be able to get it and whether I have enough gas remaining to get there.

We've never had a problem getting 93 octane. I understand 91 works ok but is not optimal. It's a good thing that we haven't had issues as the tank is small and we seem to fill up more than we'd like.

MotorHead · 01-03-2021, 01:27 PM

I wonder if all that Start/Stop does a number on the starter ?

tis · 01-03-2021, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I wonder if all that Start/Stop does a number on the starter ?

I wonder that too. And you would think the starting and stopping would create worse fuel economy not better.

jeffk · 01-03-2021, 11:02 PM

Many of the components have to be beefed up to handle the stresses of repeated stops/starts and remain reliable. Further, some systems that ran off belts, for example A/C compressor & water pump, need to be changed over to be powered by an electrical motor. That also requires a beefed up battery to power these systems while the engine is stopped. In fact, if the battery is low, the start/stop may not activate. Then you need all the monitoring and management systems to keep it all coordinated.

While it is likely that the beefed up systems, like a starter, will last as long as a normal system component, it will cost more to replace the beefed up and possibly more complex component.

As it turns out, the cost in fuel to restart is insignificant once the car is warmed up.

And the reason for all this is to cut down on a bit of pollution and save a little gas. However, this may be gaming the system because the energy and pollution to produce all these beefed up components plus the energy costs to carry the extra weight of them around through the lifetime of a car might offset the benefit of stopping the engine for a bit. Plus it adds to the costs of recycling the bigger components at end of life. No one wants to take a hard look at that because it's an ugly truth. Manufacturers needed to cut pollution and get better gas mileage which government tracks but they added downside costs to other parts of car ownership that no one pays attention to. Just because it isn't monitored doesn't mean it is a net positive.

On top of all this, it simply costs more. If there was a positive accomplishment for the cost, maybe it would be worth it. But we may be paying more simply to play regulation games of no ultimate value.

rick35 · 01-04-2021, 12:16 AM

Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.

upthesaukee · 01-04-2021, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick35

Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.

Are there other engine options, or do all Silverados have the auto fuel management?

Dave

rick35 · 01-04-2021, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Are there other engine options, or do all Silverados have the auto fuel management?

Dave

I'm not sure what is offered now but AFM came with the 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

jeffk · 01-05-2021, 08:16 AM

I hadn't thought about this and it's not mentioned in the online info but I am getting a new Ram 1500 and, GUESS WHAT? It has Start/Stop. I am getting the V6 eTorque engine which has a 48V battery backed, on demand, torque boost. The Ram also uses that system to smooth out the "start" portion of the Start/Stop. Soon I will be able to evaluate Start/Stop for myself. I'm sure it will be weird. However, the truck also comes with a bunch of safety features like automatic braking and lane keep which apply brakes and twitch the steering without driver input. I am sure I am going to be doing a lot of "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?" as I get used to it.

My first thought was, "I'm going to be getting used to automatically shutting off the Stop/Start when I get in the truck." but my second thought is that I want to get used to the way the system works so it isn't a surprise when I don't think to deactivate it. If it DOES become an annoyance, I will go back to my first thought to shut it off when I first start up. I suspect it will be fine given a little adjustment time.

rick35 · 01-06-2021, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

I hadn't thought about this and it's not mentioned in the online info but I am getting a new Ram 1500 and, GUESS WHAT? It has Start/Stop. I am getting the V6 eTorque engine which has a 48V battery backed, on demand, torque boost. The Ram also uses that system to smooth out the "start" portion of the Start/Stop. Soon I will be able to evaluate Start/Stop for myself. I'm sure it will be weird. However, the truck also comes with a bunch of safety features like automatic braking and lane keep which apply brakes and twitch the steering without driver input. I am sure I am going to be doing a lot of "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?" as I get used to it.

My first thought was, "I'm going to be getting used to automatically shutting off the Stop/Start when I get in the truck." but my second thought is that I want to get used to the way the system works so it isn't a surprise when I don't think to deactivate it. If it DOES become an annoyance, I will go back to my first thought to shut it off when I first start up. I suspect it will be fine given a little adjustment time.

With a vehicle with the extra "features" I recommend you get the extended warranty. The cost to fix one of these will pay for it.

tis · 01-06-2021, 07:08 PM

Jeff, you really don't need to even think about it starting. I love it, I think people overthink it. I think if you drive like you would if you didn't have it, you won't even notice . I have the lane keeper too and it does surprise you when you go too close to the line and it sort of hesitates or something. You might ask what the heck that was when it pulls you back.

TiltonBB · 01-04-2021, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick35

Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.

Maybe it is different in the 6 cylinder vehicles. I have it in two Tahoes (2007 and 2019) and a 2020 GM sportscar with the 6.2 V8. I cannot even tell when the engine transitions from 8 cylinders to 4 cylinders and back. The only way I know it is happening is the V4 and V8 indicator on the dashboard.

thinkxingu · 01-01-2021, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick35

We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.

The need for high octane was one of the reasons I chose an NA engine in my one full-sized pickup, though I believe many of the new T/SC vehicles with direct injection run fine on regular.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Lake Charm · 01-01-2021, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iw8surf

I’ll never own a car again with out keyless entry/start again... leave the keys in my pocket I walk right up and the doors unlock, push button to start... great, Y’all living in 1990

Living in the 90's.....
Driving a 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
No stop & start No turbo
Runs on 87 octane fuel. 20-25 mpg
Has keys to unlock and start car
Not that old or lazy that I can't put a key
in the ignition to start the car
Plus the car is roomy and a pleasure to
drive.
"Don't leave home without it!"

12-31-2020, 04:42 PM	#2
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,598 Thanks: 1,418 Thanked 1,705 Times in 1,109 Posts	Nothing new Gasoline turbos aren't new. I had a 1984 Volvo turbo. Great car, traded it at 85000 miles when I needed a van for a wheelchair. I don't have s/s, but my friend has start/stop. Aggravating, mostly shuts it off. For many years, I mostly drove convertibles, so I rarely locked the car anyway. The fob is harder to carry when you normally have a key ring with a dozen keys. My office has a fob security system, better security and you can just reprogram the locks when somebody joins or leaves, but I'd rather a keypad instead of something I have to carry, whether building or car.

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12-31-2020, 03:14 PM	#1
iw8surf Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 191 Thanks: 12 Thanked 94 Times in 55 Posts	I’ll never own a car again with out keyless entry/start again... leave the keys in my pocket I walk right up and the doors unlock, push button to start... great, Y’all living in 1990

12-31-2020, 05:17 PM	#3
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,952 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,496 Times in 1,042 Posts	I love the start, stop. My significant other hates it. It's funny how you either love it or hate it. I love the keyless too. My old car doesn't have it and I am always hunting for the key to put in the ignition.

12-31-2020, 06:30 PM	#4
rick35 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bear Island/Merrimack Posts: 807 Thanks: 58 Thanked 203 Times in 130 Posts	We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.

01-03-2021, 01:27 PM	#7
MotorHead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 280 Thanks: 52 Thanked 85 Times in 64 Posts	I wonder if all that Start/Stop does a number on the starter ?

01-03-2021, 11:02 PM	#9
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,250 Thanks: 216 Thanked 488 Times in 280 Posts	Many of the components have to be beefed up to handle the stresses of repeated stops/starts and remain reliable. Further, some systems that ran off belts, for example A/C compressor & water pump, need to be changed over to be powered by an electrical motor. That also requires a beefed up battery to power these systems while the engine is stopped. In fact, if the battery is low, the start/stop may not activate. Then you need all the monitoring and management systems to keep it all coordinated. While it is likely that the beefed up systems, like a starter, will last as long as a normal system component, it will cost more to replace the beefed up and possibly more complex component. As it turns out, the cost in fuel to restart is insignificant once the car is warmed up. And the reason for all this is to cut down on a bit of pollution and save a little gas. However, this may be gaming the system because the energy and pollution to produce all these beefed up components plus the energy costs to carry the extra weight of them around through the lifetime of a car might offset the benefit of stopping the engine for a bit. Plus it adds to the costs of recycling the bigger components at end of life. No one wants to take a hard look at that because it's an ugly truth. Manufacturers needed to cut pollution and get better gas mileage which government tracks but they added downside costs to other parts of car ownership that no one pays attention to. Just because it isn't monitored doesn't mean it is a net positive. On top of all this, it simply costs more. If there was a positive accomplishment for the cost, maybe it would be worth it. But we may be paying more simply to play regulation games of no ultimate value.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jeffk For This Useful Post:
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01-04-2021, 12:16 AM	#10
rick35 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bear Island/Merrimack Posts: 807 Thanks: 58 Thanked 203 Times in 130 Posts	Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rick35 For This Useful Post:
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01-05-2021, 08:16 AM	#13
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,250 Thanks: 216 Thanked 488 Times in 280 Posts	I hadn't thought about this and it's not mentioned in the online info but I am getting a new Ram 1500 and, GUESS WHAT? It has Start/Stop. I am getting the V6 eTorque engine which has a 48V battery backed, on demand, torque boost. The Ram also uses that system to smooth out the "start" portion of the Start/Stop. Soon I will be able to evaluate Start/Stop for myself. I'm sure it will be weird. However, the truck also comes with a bunch of safety features like automatic braking and lane keep which apply brakes and twitch the steering without driver input. I am sure I am going to be doing a lot of "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?" as I get used to it. My first thought was, "I'm going to be getting used to automatically shutting off the Stop/Start when I get in the truck." but my second thought is that I want to get used to the way the system works so it isn't a surprise when I don't think to deactivate it. If it DOES become an annoyance, I will go back to my first thought to shut it off when I first start up. I suspect it will be fine given a little adjustment time.

01-06-2021, 07:08 PM	#15
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,952 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,496 Times in 1,042 Posts	Jeff, you really don't need to even think about it starting. I love it, I think people overthink it. I think if you drive like you would if you didn't have it, you won't even notice . I have the lane keeper too and it does surprise you when you go too close to the line and it sort of hesitates or something. You might ask what the heck that was when it pulls you back.

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