Don't drink the water

[Grant]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

...But there is also a lot of mother nature at work. When I started coming to this lake in the 80s I don't recall seeing geese. Now we have them in large quantities. ...

Geese are a pretty new problem, so they're not a priority, but they will be a MAJOR problem if not addressed early. At the risk of being the "broken record," as I've stated this over and over, one needs only to look at states like Pennsylvania, where the non-migratory Canada goose population has destroyed many formerly-great lakes. They multiply, unchecked, and do nothing but eat and poop.

Old septic systems and fertilized lawns should be better regulated. But money talks, and putting any kind of restrictions on "progress" is tough.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Grant

Geese are a pretty new problem, so they're not a priority, but they will be a MAJOR problem if not addressed early. At the risk of being the "broken record," as I've stated this over and over, one needs only to look at states like Pennsylvania, where the non-migratory Canada goose population has destroyed many formerly-great lakes. They multiply, unchecked, and do nothing but eat and poop.

Old septic systems and fertilized lawns should be better regulated. But money talks, and putting any kind of restrictions on "progress" is tough.

Agreed on the septic and lawns as I've posted before. Please expand on the geese issue. It's easy to understand in general. I'm interested in your thoughts on why they are growing and what we might do to curb this.

[Merrymeeting]

It's pretty simple. More lawns, more geese.

We never see them near our place. Not surprisingly, neither we nor the neighbors have grass.

https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/...oose-guide.pdf

Canada geese are grazers and prefer grass, especially fertilized
lawn grass. They tend to forage in areas with open sight lines
and access to water where they can see and escape predators.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

It's pretty simple. More lawns, more geese.

We never see them near our place. Not surprisingly, neither we nor the neighbors have grass.

https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/...oose-guide.pdf

Canada geese are grazers and prefer grass, especially fertilized
lawn grass. They tend to forage in areas with open sight lines
and access to water where they can see and escape predators.

The degradation of the lake is not natural as has been suggested in previous posts. It is purely man made , the water fowl infestation is a result of the lake front being turned into perfect grazing land for them !

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by barefootbay

The degradation of the lake is not natural as has been suggested in previous posts. It is purely man made , the water fowl infestation is a result of the lake front being turned into perfect grazing land for them !

Why would you even want grass on waterfront property??? Then you have to buy a mower AND use it!

In the 1960's this was as good as it got, and not a blade of grass in site.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Why would you even want grass on waterfront property??? Then you have to buy a mower AND use it!

In the 1960's this was as good as it got, and not a blade of grass in site.

I laugh as my neighbors put in lawns.... even more so when I see that they then higher a landscaping firm to come mow it so they don't have to..... Mean while next year I am planning to aquire 5 yards or so of course sand to spread around, and cover up some new roots that are becoming tripping hazards....

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I laugh as my neighbors put in lawns.... even more so when I see that they then higher a landscaping firm to come mow it so they don't have to..... Mean while next year I am planning to aquire 5 yards or so of course sand to spread around, and cover up some new roots that are becoming tripping hazards....

This is all about vanity. A big, sunny, green, fertilized, weedless lawn, probably maintained by someone else, and likely surrounding a large house used a month or two out of the year is equated with status. Fact is, people care more about impressing others than they do about the lake's health. I believe people purposefully avoid connecting these two ideals. They compartmentalize each and conveniently conclude that they can have both. We talk about educating people but does anyone really feel that education is the answer? Mostly, I think, it'll take more extreme measures - regulations and penalties - to get the larger population to listen. I'm sure that will go over great in the Live Free or Die state.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

This is all about vanity. A big, sunny, green, fertilized, weedless lawn, probably maintained by someone else, and likely surrounding a large house used a month or two out of the year is equated with status. Fact is, people care more about impressing others than they do about the lake's health. I believe people purposefully avoid connecting these two ideals. They compartmentalize each and conveniently conclude that they can have both. We talk about educating people but does anyone really feel that education is the answer? Mostly, I think, it'll take more extreme measures - regulations and penalties - to get the larger population to listen. I'm sure that will go over great in the Live Free or Die state.

I think you have it right and wrong.

The right part is the piece about status and impressing others and all for the 3 months and half dozen trips they make a year.

The wrong part, is the regulation and penalties. In my opinion, you will not stop the problems with regulation and penalties, and more regulation and penalties usually only irritate your potential supporters, especially for the people who do believe generally in the live free, or die values.

If the problem you are trying to fix is too many lawns and associated fertilizer, then you need to convince people something else is the new in thing and better option.

Sell your belief or idea, don't force it, you get better results.

[Descant]

I hope that over the next few years, getting your house certified as "Lake Smart" will have more cache and prestige than a big green lawn. Probably, most non-bridged island properties already qualify, just need to fill out the survey and have a quick inspection. Right now, it's free. Details on NHLAKES.org. Probably next year, when Covid is under control and we are all more comfortable with visitors.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

I think you have it right and wrong.

The right part is the piece about status and impressing others and all for the 3 months and half dozen trips they make a year.

The wrong part, is the regulation and penalties. In my opinion, you will not stop the problems with regulation and penalties, and more regulation and penalties usually only irritate your potential supporters, especially for the people who do believe generally in the live free, or die values.

If the problem you are trying to fix is too many lawns and associated fertilizer, then you need to convince people something else is the new in thing and better option.

Sell your belief or idea, don't force it, you get better results.

I don't like my suggestion either. But selling people on ripping out their lawns, or letting them go to nature, or not planting them in the first place just isn't going to work. Look around, is it working now?

Frankly, many of these folks are going to look at you like you're crazy - if they even listen at all. They already know what they are doing is wrong but they look away. You aren't going to get them to the free one hour talk about lake health at the local community center. They aren't reading environmental newsletters or websites and I doubt they know what their landscaper is putting on their lawns. Heck, they probably aren't even here. I just don't see a working formula that scores significant results by simply convincing people through education and dialogue that they are better off sacrificing personally for the benefit of the lake. I'm not suggesting that education isn't valuable. Only that it isn't going to resonate with a large majority of property owners on or near the lake.

I'm not sure my suggestion works but I'm convinced simply selling ideas doesn't. The heavily used lake results in complex problems that require widespread solutions. There are too many people with singular motivations that are rotating in and out of here each and every year. This is all too much for just selling and education.

[XCR-700]

Ok, then figure out how to not throw out the bathwater as the baby may need to be washed,,, Try other solutions than the standard pass a law and restrict it strategy.

How about synthetic lawns, I understand they are all the rage in water challenged areas. No need to water, fertilizer, mow, weed, and ducks cant eat it.

We always seem to force matters into all or nothing situation and then you invariably get push-back, next the restrictions start and then the bypass begins because people always want what you cant have. Look at the rampant problems with illegal fireworks in Massachusetts because they are totally outlawed. Same thing with gun limits, the more you add restrictions, the more people want them. And lets not forget the battle about sport boats in NH, start layering on restrictions and all you get is a battle.

Find a better path, it works better.

Restrictions better be justified by an undeniable and imminent life threatening consequence AND be very obvious or you will not get the widespread support you need in the form of compliance.

There are always options.

And you also need to consider that many of us believe the planet is here for us to use, NOT ABUSE, but use, and with use comes some acceptable wear and tear and impact, so find that middle ground or buckle up for a battle.

[Descant]

To me, many of these posts are a very short term outlook, less than a generation. Fifty years ago, Stewart Lamprey and other water activists passed enabling legislation along with federal funding to build the Winnipesaukee River waste water treatment plan. Instead of failing septic systems leaching into the lake, we have sewer all along the western side of the lake from Moultonboro to West Alton. The newbies who have been here less than, say, 40 years, take it for granted. There are very few septics left now. Not Winni exactly, but about 20 years ago, the state bought about one million+ acres of land in the north country, set aside 25,000 acres of old growth as forever wild, put a conservation easement on the rest and sold it to wood product industries. Long term vision and action by an entire state. That's pretty rare.
Now we talk about, on a small scale, lawns. But we're really talking about our statewide water resources. Education may be a slower process, but I can see where, in 25 years, the real estate listing won't say " new kitchen", or "beautiful lawn" but will say "low maintenance lake friendly landscaping". There will be a market bonus for a certified "Lake Smart" property. I'm not a tree hugger, but I am thinking about my grandchildren, and I hope they will think about their grandchildren. Sorry to be preachy.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Descant

To me, many of these posts are a very short term outlook, less than a generation. Fifty years ago, Stewart Lamprey and other water activists passed enabling legislation along with federal funding to build the Winnipesaukee River waste water treatment plan. Instead of failing septic systems leaching into the lake, we have sewer all along the western side of the lake from Moultonboro to West Alton. The newbies who have been here less than, say, 40 years, take it for granted. There are very few septics left now. Not Winni exactly, but about 20 years ago, the state bought about one million+ acres of land in the north country, set aside 25,000 acres of old growth as forever wild, put a conservation easement on the rest and sold it to wood product industries. Long term vision and action by an entire state. That's pretty rare.
Now we talk about, on a small scale, lawns. But we're really talking about our statewide water resources. Education may be a slower process, but I can see where, in 25 years, the real estate listing won't say " new kitchen", or "beautiful lawn" but will say "low maintenance lake friendly landscaping". There will be a market bonus for a certified "Lake Smart" property. I'm not a tree hugger, but I am thinking about my grandchildren, and I hope they will think about their grandchildren. Sorry to be preachy.

25 years ago we built our home in CT. We chose to install a ground source geothermal heat pump - a new thing in CT at the time. We were one of the first 50 residential units to be installed in the state...deciding to move forward with the help of incentives courtesy of our electric utility. Today, geothermal is very much a selling advantage in real estate listings. So, I think your point is a good one. Still, I am sure that the health of the lake cannot be solved by education alone. Someone’s going to have to wave a big stick.

By the way, that geo system we bought was a great decision. It’s saved us boatloads of money and is a very safe, environmentally friendly and comfortable heat and AC source.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

25 years ago we built our home in CT. We chose to install a ground source geothermal heat pump - a new thing in CT at the time. We were one of the first 50 residential units to be installed in the state...deciding to move forward with the help of incentives courtesy of our electric utility. Today, geothermal is very much a selling advantage in real estate listings. So, I think your point is a good one. Still, I am sure that the health of the lake cannot be solved by education alone. Someone’s going to have to wave a big stick.

By the way, that geo system we bought was a great decision. It’s saved us boatloads of money and is a very safe, environmentally friendly and comfortable heat and AC source.

RE; Your Geothermal system

And that is EXACTLY my point, no one forced you to put it in and now you can sing the praises of how good it is and how much you saved.

Thats a much better AND more effective method than a big stick in places like NH.

Dont go to NH and "tell" anyone what they must do, convince them and you will have a strong following. It has been my observation that people from NH are very practical and may not jump on the bandwagon right away waiting to see if its BS or a fad, but once they see the clear truth, they will do whats right for them. But threaten them with a big stick and you may come to regret it, or at the very least, you will only slow the progress you seek.

My two cents and observations, your opinion may vary.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

25 years ago we built our home in CT. We chose to install a ground source geothermal heat pump - a new thing in CT at the time. We were one of the first 50 residential units to be installed in the state...deciding to move forward with the help of incentives courtesy of our electric utility. Today, geothermal is very much a selling advantage in real estate listings. So, I think your point is a good one. Still, I am sure that the health of the lake cannot be solved by education alone. Someone’s going to have to wave a big stick.

By the way, that geo system we bought was a great decision. It’s saved us boatloads of money and is a very safe, environmentally friendly and comfortable heat and AC source.

Good for you and your geothermal system. We need people who will try some new technology that may or may not work.
Unfortunately, the "big stick" too often means new laws but also requires new state or federal funding. That translates into taxes. The incentive programs go away, but the taxes remain. Go slow. Do it for the grandchildren, not for yourself.

[mishman]

Glad to see a healthy discussion about lake water quality and contributing factors (lawns, erosion runoff, faulty septic etc.). Twenty years from now I hope we are not looking back to 2020 and saying "we did not appreciate how good the water quality was then compared to now."
What can we do - no lawn fertilizer, pump out your septic every 3-5 yrs - depending on the size, use etc and join and support the Lake Winnipesaukee Association (winnipesaukee.org). LWA is the only organization working with all lake side towns to improve and protect the quality of our water. They deserve your support!

[Descant]

Plant Blueberry sod on top of your lawn. Nice green all year and blueberry pies, muffins are a lot better than anything you can make out of grass.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Agreed on the septic and lawns as I've posted before. Please expand on the geese issue. It's easy to understand in general. I'm interested in your thoughts on why they are growing and what we might do to curb this.

Goose manure is a primary factor for rising E. coli levels in freshwater lakes across the country. The most notable ingredient in goose dook is phosphorous, which can lead to an increase in nasty algae blooms. The average SINGLE goose deposits 1.5 - 2 pounds of fecal matter per day, much of it in the water or on surrounding grassy areas (read: lawns). That adds up quickly.

Where do you see them the most (other than in the water or the sky)? Usually, grassy areas. Check the waterside town park in Meredith. They are there, pooping away, with no predators and ample food. They love those grassy areas...lawns...and will nest there.

How to stop them? Got me. But I'd start with not letting them nest and reproduce on your property if possible.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Grant

Goose manure is a primary factor for rising E. coli levels in freshwater lakes across the country. The most notable ingredient in goose dook is phosphorous, which can lead to an increase in nasty algae blooms. The average SINGLE goose deposits 1.5 - 2 pounds of fecal matter per day, much of it in the water or on surrounding grassy areas (read: lawns). That adds up quickly.

Where do you see them the most (other than in the water or the sky)? Usually, grassy areas. Check the waterside town park in Meredith. They are there, pooping away, with no predators and ample food. They love those grassy areas...lawns...and will nest there.

How to stop them? Got me. But I'd start with not letting them nest and reproduce on your property if possible.

So why are we not making better use of these critters. Open a chain of Goose-Fil-A and market it aggressively and at very competitive prices and the problem self-resolves. It could be a huge hit in China and help offset our trade imbalance.

Dont laugh too hard, it could work unless the WWF get involved (not the wrestling people,,,)

Better ideas, stop growing highly fertilized grass in multi-million dollar estates, now you can laugh and hard. Not holding my breath.

Oh well, I tried,,,