Personal Ski Machine

[camp guy]

Very cool!! But, I agree with Cal Coon, definitely worth a phone call to totally be sure if is "allowed" under current MP practices.

With the pending arrival of driverless autos, and now a driverless ski boat, what's next ? - a food service that will order food for you, then eat it for you, then text you with a message telling you how much you enjoyed it? AI is taking over.

[tis]

SP, you don't need a spotter for kite water skiing. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody do it on the lake. Would this be considered the same? I almost bet if you call MP they won't be able to answer you. The outcome of this will be very interesting.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by tis

SP, you don't need a spotter for kite water skiing. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody do it on the lake. Would this be considered the same? I almost bet if you call MP they won't be able to answer you. The outcome of this will be very interesting.

Excellent observation, tis! I’m not calling Marine Patrol, but rather will just buy it and use it. If I get stopped and cited, then it will get challenged in court (and I will win).

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by camp guy

Very cool!! But, I agree with Cal Coon, definitely worth a phone call to totally be sure if is "allowed" under current MP practices.

With the pending arrival of driverless autos, and now a driverless ski boat, what's next ? - a food service that will order food for you, then eat it for you, then text you with a message telling you how much you enjoyed it? AI is taking over.

Yes it is, and IMHO, I'm not to crazy about it. I'm "old school". I like doing (most) things for myself. I still have a "flip phone", and it's all I will ever need. Big tech is going too far for my liking. Too many people getting to lazy and stupid. Everybody just wants to push a button for everything in their life these days!! Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... However, some things are cool. I do like the concept of this personal ski machine. It allows for one to be "independent", and I think that's a good thing.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Yes it is, and IMHO, I'm not to crazy about it. I'm "old school". I like doing (most) things for myself. I still have a "flip phone", and it's all I will ever need. Big tech is going too far for my liking. Too many people getting to lazy and stupid. Everybody just wants to push a button for everything in their life these days!! Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... However, some things are cool. I do like the concept of this personal ski machine. It allows for one to be "independent", and I think that's a good thing.

Yes, being independent is the main point. I’d use it first thing in the morning when the water is flat and like glass, and there’s little boat traffic. Trying to get 3 people together at that hour is never easy. This solves all those problems.

[upthesaukee]

I saw two listings for this item and at $17, 000 , that seems like an expensive "gee, I think I'll buy one of these and then see if it's legal" personal toy. I can bribe two friends to get up early several times for 17k.

Dave

[TiltonBB]

From the NH Boating Guide:

Towing a Person With a Vessel Legally:

Vessel operators towing a person(s) on water skis, tubes, kneeboards, aquaplanes, or any other devices also must obey these laws.

In addition to the operator, an observer must be on board to observe the progress of the person being towed. The observer must be at least 13 years old, able to determine when a skier is in trouble, and able to assist the skier.

I would be very surprised if the Marine Patrol, and the court, do not find that this did not comply with the current laws. There may be some changes needed in the law to consider these "vessels" but the existing laws do not anticipate something like this.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

From the NH Boating Guide:

Towing a Person With a Vessel Legally:

Vessel operators towing a person(s) on water skis, tubes, kneeboards, aquaplanes, or any other devices also must obey these laws.

In addition to the operator, an observer must be on board to observe the progress of the person being towed. The observer must be at least 13 years old, able to determine when a skier is in trouble, and able to assist the skier.

I would be very surprised if the Marine Patrol, and the court, do not find that this did not comply with the current laws. There may be some changes needed in the law to consider these "vessels" but the existing laws do not anticipate something like this.

Thanks for the link Tilton--I would have let this go, but your quote makes it fun. I agree that these vessels were not contemplated, but I disagree with your interpretation on the letter of the law.

SP (the skier) is clearly the operator of the vessel--he is doing so by remote control. Then, in addition to the operator, there must be someone observing the skier.

So my take is that although the law may allow SP to operate and ski simultaneously, it does not allow him to observe while doing either of the other activities.

Ironic that the easier of the two on board tasks is the is one that hangs up the idea. But if you really think about the towing rules, you can see that this whole idea--although very cool in theory--is against the general spirit of having multiple people paying attention.

[Garcia]

Their website says it is legal in 41 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Washington DC. Is NH, Live Free or Die, one of the 41?

[Descant]

The key here is that this is a PWC, not a boat pulling a skier. We have no need for an observer on a PWC although everything else is similar to the personal ski machine.
BTW, there are certain slalom courses and boats where an observer is not required. Don't quote the law until you have read the entire RSA in its most recent version. And be sure you are quoting the right section, PWC vs skiers.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Descant

We have no need for an observer on a PWC...

From my research, I don't think this is accurate. The Boat-Ed rules for PWC say, "Remember…

PWC operators are subject to all boating laws. In addition, “ski craft” operators must follow the laws on these pages." This extra laws are on timing and size of area to be used in.

As for legality, I concur with the posts above that this would be considered illegal without a spotter. I would need to take a hard look at the system to decide if there would be sufficient safety systems in place to justify legal language changes.

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[jazzman]

I don't think I'd want to be on a kayak in the vicinity of this thing. It's got to be tough for the operator to see someone at water level while skiing with this 50 feet in front of them.

[kawishiwi]

I think the controller of one of these is both the skier & spotter at the same time. They ski & drive.
The reason for a spotter is to tell the boat capt. what the skier is doing so the capt. can focus on driving. A skier needs the capt & spotter so they can signal to the capt, through the spotter. Clearly in this case the "controller/driver" has a quite intimate and immediate understanding of how the skier is doing. Self spotting? Yes. Self driving? Yes. While skiing? Yes.
Strongest arguments against would be kill switch & concerns that a skier can maintain effective "driving" awareness.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

Strongest arguments against would be kill switch & concerns that a skier can maintain effective "driving" awareness.

"Driving" awareness is exactly the reason for a spotter requirement--essentially, the law assumes (correctly?) that a person cannot drive AND spot safely.

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[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

"Driving" awareness is exactly the reason for a spotter requirement--essentially, the law assumes (correctly?) that a person cannot drive AND spot safely.

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Apples to...not apples. A capt is supposed to look ahead to operate safely, not back to the skier, hence the need for a spotter to inform the capt. of the skiers status. Capt cant know how the skier is doing and pay attention to driving. The solo skier/driver never has to look back. They are fully self aware of their own skiing status. There is no capt. to inform of their staus and therefor no need for a spotter at all to inform a capt. Essentially the spotter has one purpose, communication between capt & skier. If the capt is the skiier there is no need for a middleman.
However there is a question as to how well can one person ski WHILE ALSO being capt. of a waterborn drone.
Skiing up right, facing forward, at a slow to moderate speed, I think it can be done safely. While wake jumping, doing spins, tricks...not so much.

[tis]

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

[Seaplane Pilot]

As tis mentioned in a prior post, what's the difference between the ski machine and kite boarding? No spotter needed with kite boarding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0A1suBPSoY

As far as being injured or something else happening that would be useful to have a spotter or someone watching: What if I'm out on an SUP by myself and I fell and hit my head on the board? No difference really.

And a previous poster mentioned being concerned if they were in a kayak while I'm out there getting towed around. As I've said before on this forum, ALL kayaks should be required to fly a safety flag - period. Otherwise, the options are 1) don't go out; 2) stay close to shore; 3) paddle faster!

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

I thought you were just kidding about this!! Good for you! I can't wait to see one in action!

Dan

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I thought you were just kidding about this!! Good for you! I can't wait to see one in action!

Dan

I'll give you a heads-up and will do some Welch Island fly-bys next year!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

I'd rather see a bunch of these things on the lake than more wakeboard boats

I have always wondered why these units have not caught on. I first recall seeing one at a boat show ~30 years ago, but have only ever come across one on the water twice since then.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I'd rather see a bunch of these things on the lake than more wakeboard boats

I have always wondered why these units have not caught on. I first recall seeing one at a boat show ~30 years ago, but have only ever come across one on the water twice since then.

Just for the record, I'm not against these at all, just interpreting the law per the OP's initial request. I agree on the wake boats.

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[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

I can go out on my JET SKI with nobody watching. Both machines have a shut off if I fall. In fact, the one that SP brought forward will circle back to the operator. A traditional PWC will not do that. Both have the same risk if I am injured.
BTW, if you read RSA 270 where it talks about jet skis, it refers to size, etc and then says... and similar devices. I think this is already covered.
There would be restrictions in small coves where a PWC has to go at headway speed to get to open water. Head way speed for a skier can be very tiring, and you have to do it outbound and on return. This is a great option for those on a 300-1000 acre lake, and certain areas of larger lakes.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by tis

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

Well solo anything has that risk. A PFD is a must.