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06-21-2019, 05:23 PM | #1 | |
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Headway Speed
I received the following today from a Governors Island resident. He only wrote me because he wanted to make sure Bizer updated its chart
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Last edited by Bizer; 06-25-2019 at 09:21 AM. |
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06-21-2019, 05:32 PM | #2 |
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06-21-2019, 07:16 PM | #3 | |
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The only way I can see it making any difference at all (next season) is if MP actually comes out in enough force to make it a deterrent. I don’t see this happening either. At least it puts an end to the “argument” that 6 mph is okay to run at in a NWZ. |
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06-21-2019, 10:13 PM | #4 |
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My jet ski will make headway with no throttle at all. At about 1 mph. If they make Wolfeboro bay NWZ it would take me an hour to get out of the bay
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06-22-2019, 05:55 AM | #5 |
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Since boats of many sizes and jet skis all have different speeds necessary to maintain control it would make sense to include in the legislation that your speed must not impede the safe navigation of other boats.
In other words, just because you can control your 13 foot Whaler at 1 MPH doesn't make it right when the 30 foot boat behind you ends up on the rocks because the current made it impossible to control at 1 MPH. |
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06-22-2019, 06:44 AM | #6 | |
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06-22-2019, 06:54 AM | #7 |
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What is the goal of "headway speed"? I always thought it was to minimize wake and, if so, wondered why that wasn't in the definition...
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06-22-2019, 07:50 AM | #8 |
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It is in the definition, thinkxingu. You are right. Headway speed was MEANT to be the slowest speed a boat can operate to maintain steerage.
The no wake law refers to the headway speed law. "No wake area means an area where a boat is to operated only at headway speed." And the definition of headway speed WAS: "Headway speed" means [6 miles per hour or] the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way." The new law has DELETED the 6mph so should read: Headway speed means the SLOWEST SPEED A BOAT CAN BE OPERATED and maintain steerage way. Because the No wake law uses headway speed in it's definition, people would then go and look at the headway speed law and interpret it to mean that they could go 6 mph. (It could have been because of the OR). However, this is not the way MP meant it to be so they made their intention clear. I am sure you have read the arguments on here over and over about this in the past. This is the way I understand it. |
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06-22-2019, 10:28 AM | #9 |
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Of course maintaing steerage is pretty open to interpretation too. You can go very slow if you adjust every 10 seconds. These are all terms better suited to large craft in places of tides and currents.
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06-22-2019, 10:56 AM | #10 |
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You are right. MP has said that the law including the 6mph was meant for the currents in the ocean and not for the lakes. But NH had the same law for both the lakes and the ocean.
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06-22-2019, 11:34 AM | #11 |
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Here we go again with another Popsicle headache post about NWZ's and headway speed... We all know what doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result is, right...?? Why even bother with this conversation, NOTHING will EVER change on this subject regardless of whatever the "law" says. I mean no disrespect to the OP, just living in the "real" world.
Last edited by Cal Coon; 06-22-2019 at 01:34 PM. |
06-22-2019, 11:46 AM | #12 |
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06-22-2019, 04:06 PM | #13 |
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When I first seen this pop up as a new thread and read it for the first time, Popsicle headache was the first thing I thought of. I believe someone else, maybe it was even you who used the phrase once before on this same subject mater in a different thread.
It absolutely best describes this topic. There is a little bit more to this topic but its my own personal speculation / my own humble opinion. Will think about posing later about it. Time for yard work at the moment in between the rain showers. |
06-22-2019, 06:08 PM | #14 | |
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Last fall, I took a look at my wake at 6 MPH (measured with GPS). The wake was under two inches. |
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06-23-2019, 05:39 AM | #15 |
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No I do not. But it only takes one boater going through the Weirs Channel at an extremely slow speed to make it difficult for 20 boats in line behind them to maintain control. That is especially true when the dam is operating at a high flow rate.
While piloting a larger, higher vessel through the Channel I have passed a slow moving small boat because the wind was catching my boat and pushing it around. It was safer than going down the channel sideways or having the wind push the boat into the rocks. Many people in boats are oblivious to what is going on behind them. (That seems to be true in cars too!) |
06-23-2019, 05:44 AM | #16 |
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Will be interesting to see if this results in any changes in people's behavior. I have argued a number of times that this is to broad a definition and thus difficult to enforce since everyone's idea of maintaining control is different.
I've also noticed that MP tends to turn a blind eye to violations of this that are not completely an utterly egregious. |
06-23-2019, 06:38 AM | #17 |
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So far, I see no change for the better. If anything, I’ve seen more violations of “no wake” zone in front of my place then in the past. I guess you just can’t correct stupid.
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06-23-2019, 07:01 AM | #18 | |
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06-23-2019, 11:21 AM | #19 |
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I don’t understand why the legislature bothered with deleting the 6 mph clause. Was there a real concern about boats actually obeying the law going 5 or 6 mph and throwing a large wake? It seems to me that the issue is compliance in general, not with the particularities of whether it’s “minimum speed to maintain steerage” or 6 mph. Seems like a waste of government resources to amend the statute if it is not also combined with an emphasis on enforcement.
Perhaps MP can start in the graveyard, where the majority of boats think headway speed within 150’ means coming off of plane and going about 10 mph plowing the water and throwing the largest wake possible. And those are the folks that are even bothering to reduce speed. Rant over. The problem with ranting on this topic here is that the folks that need education are probably not on the forum reading posts. |
06-23-2019, 12:59 PM | #20 |
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Unfortunately, 6 mph became 8, became 10. Most people don’t have a clue of how fast they are going. They actually think their speedometer is accurate at low speed. It isn’t!
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06-23-2019, 07:46 PM | #21 |
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I would be happy if boats going through the NWZ in front of my house would just come off plane. I estimate 50 boats a day go through on plane.
It gets worse every year, and now its like the NWZ is optional. |
06-23-2019, 08:11 PM | #22 |
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06-24-2019, 04:52 AM | #23 |
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I agree. And what's even worse is that half speed plow so many of them do.
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06-24-2019, 07:23 AM | #24 | |
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06-24-2019, 07:52 AM | #25 | |
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06-24-2019, 01:23 PM | #26 | |
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06-24-2019, 01:57 PM | #27 |
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headway speed
Would love to be in court when they try to prosecute a headway speed case. Defense attorney: "Well now mister MP, how did you determine that my client's craft was unable to maintain steerage at 55 MPH?"
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06-24-2019, 02:14 PM | #28 | |
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I guess they could say it is one way when the wind is blowing making everyone go around Bear Island on windy days.... |
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06-24-2019, 02:31 PM | #29 | ||
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06-25-2019, 06:08 AM | #30 |
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MP operates enough boats to have a pretty good idea of what it takes to maintain control in a strong wind. They are looking for you to be reasonable. The ones they are going to grab are the ones who think, “I can maintain control at 5mph in this wind but, I can maintain REALLY good control at 10”. Now, calm winds it is a different story.
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06-25-2019, 09:49 AM | #31 |
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NWZ Cameras
Marine Patrol and towns should install these NWZ cameras all around the lake to slow boats down and generate revenue. Saw a guy Sunday heading toward Gov Island bridge from the Weir's with the wind behind him on plane waving and smiling a good 200' beyond the NWZ marker. Would have looked good on camera.
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06-25-2019, 10:28 AM | #32 | |
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06-25-2019, 10:30 AM | #33 | |
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06-25-2019, 10:43 AM | #34 |
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Meanwhile, the NW winds were howling on Saturday and Sunday, probably creating waves in some of the no-wake zones 10 to 20 times higher than any boat going 6 mph (which is the current max allowed by law in a NW zone). Perhaps MP can issue tickets to Mother Nature? This is the most ridiculous, time-wasting argument I've ever seen. If someone is blasting through a no-wake zone, then they deserve a ticket. But if someone is going 5-6 mph, putting out a 1-2" "WAKE" (more than a duck makes), then leave them the hell alone. What type of shorefront or property damage can a 1-2" wake produce? NONE!
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06-25-2019, 11:15 AM | #35 |
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Unfortunately, for a lot of boats 5-6 mph makes a wake a lot bigger than 1 - 2”. How about just showing a little courtesy? I know, that is a lot to ask of some people.
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06-25-2019, 11:17 AM | #36 | |
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06-25-2019, 03:28 PM | #37 | |
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06-25-2019, 05:49 PM | #38 | |
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06-25-2019, 06:15 PM | #39 | |
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What are we supposed to teach our children. "Unless the cops personally see you do it, you have not done anything wrong." That's not my America! |
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06-25-2019, 06:39 PM | #40 | |
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Last edited by Cal Coon; 06-26-2019 at 04:41 AM. |
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06-25-2019, 06:50 PM | #41 | |
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I was out Sunday in my centerboard sail boat (Doh! I just couldn't help myself). What would normally be inappropriate wakes from nearby power boats made things even more difficult, but it was obvious that they needed the extra juice. I'm sure MP would have seen it the same way. |
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06-26-2019, 06:42 PM | #42 |
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You'
Every time you see a bad boater, pat yourself on the back that you're not one of them. People aren't just going to imitate bad boaters. There will be plenty that imitate good boaters.
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06-26-2019, 06:49 PM | #43 |
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You have that back asswards...every time I go out there are far more bad ones than good in the areas I frequent.
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06-27-2019, 05:02 AM | #44 |
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06-27-2019, 07:17 AM | #45 |
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A Yikes experience yesterday
Yikes! Yesterday, I was golfing with a friend, and the pro shop matched us up with a single. In the course of the round, the subject of boating came up. He was on vacation with his wife and family. He said he rented a 15 ft pontoon with a 25 hp engine, that way he didn't have to bother with a boating license.
He went out on Sunday, I think, and remarked about how windy it was, especially once they got out in the Broads. He said it was really a challenge to get into the shelter of islands to get away from the rough water. After I remarked that Winni can be downright dangerous in those conditions, he went on to say he had been boating most of his life without a boating license, and could not believe the number of "bad" boaters out there that didn't know anything about boating, like who has the right of way, who gives way when two boats are approaching each other from opposite directions, and not even knowing "red on right on reentering "! We changed the subject quickly after that. Nice guy to golf with but glad I wasn't out on the lake near him, or even worse, with him. Dave
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06-27-2019, 11:12 AM | #46 |
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06-27-2019, 12:02 PM | #47 | |
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06-27-2019, 12:39 PM | #48 | |
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Wrong...seems I am one of the few good boaters out there and no one imitates me...they more than likely try to swamp me. |
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06-27-2019, 01:14 PM | #49 |
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Okay. Then when I get out there, I'll imitate you. You'll have your first "forever student."
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06-27-2019, 04:26 PM | #50 | |
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Last edited by Cal Coon; 06-28-2019 at 07:20 PM. |
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