City of Laconia home rentals

[TiltonBB]

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

[birchhaven]

This is an issue all over the country and the rest of the lakes/mountains in NH. With all of Laconia's issues and they have a lot. Also the fact Laconia never seems to get anything right. Why are they trying to lead? No city has really come up with a good solution for this, Laconia should try and keep there head down so to speak. There is no way they are going to come up with the perfect solution that every city in the world is looking for, they are just going to either piss off a lot of people and/or devalue a bunch of properties. They are making the issue bigger than it is IMHO and should have just stayed out of the debate.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?

Off topic but a year back I went electric leaf blower, weed whacker and lawnmower for my smallish yard. I mow at 6 am now if I want, its almost silent! No more waking up the neighbors aha

[greeleyhill]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?

[nitrovandam]

Originally Posted by greeleyhill

What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?

FOUR ( 4 ) What if's....... Typical Liberal ****. Try speaking the truths not the WHAT IF'S. You voted these liberals in, You know how they work. Tax Tax tax, and now you are complaining about it. LOL. Don't like it, Move back to the state you came from. Oops, sorry , forgot, it's even worse in your home state.
Love Love Love to see this happening. You vote these Democrats in, you get to deal with their Rath. Within a few years, NH will be as bad or worse as Mass, RI, Conn and NY. Guess you guys will fit right in then huh.

Please carry on now to RUIN NEW HAMPSHIRE even more.

[Woodsy]

I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


Woodsy

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

[Red apple]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

Well if I read it correctly if you as the "landlord" have three complaints against you or any of your renters you loose the right to rent. This is GREAT like I said from the start of this thread the city is leaving it up to your neighbors to decide if you can rent of not.. Look at Lake Opechee as there have been two cases if not more that have gone to the city for VRBO and have loss due to neighbors complaining and both of them have sold there homes. Have also heard of of more cases or Air B&B in the area going down the same road as neighbors are fed up with them also. So at the end of the day the City of Laconia will make some extra money in fees and the neighbors will have the final say if you rent of not. Start paying off your neighbors if you want to rent!!!

[Redbarn]

I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?

[Red apple]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?

I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Red apple

I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.

Improbably erroneously assumed since it was not in the article that they were taking that portion out. As I stated in posts above you cannot let neighbors decide if a homeowner can or cannot short term rent their home or the obvious reasons like disgruntled neighbors ect.... Also I believe the short term renters are much more behaved than long term renters which would not be subject to this proposal at all.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

Woodsy

Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.

If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

Woodsy

As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.

Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

Woodsy

Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.

You keep pulling me back in haha. I don't care to comment anymore but you below post references boarding/rooming/lodging and then cites the hotel definition. All well and good but again you are mixing the current argument about the need for a variance in downtown and the need for this new thing in the current article. Hotels etc are permitted in for example the weirs. I also disagree with your view on the definition and There are work arounds. There is going be a lot of issues created from this in the weirs that did not existed before due to this. They should have left it alone.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.

Sorry RedBarn.....

I get that you don't like it... However, Short Term Rentals is ABSOLUTELY the same as Boarding/Rooming/Lodging category used by the City.

NH RSA on the matter....

78-A:3 Definitions
III. "Hotel" means an establishment which holds itself out to the public by offering sleeping accommodations for rent, whether or not the major portion of its operating receipts is derived from sleeping accommodations. The term includes, but is not limited to, inns, motels, tourist homes and cabins, ski dormitories, ski lodges, lodging homes, rooming houses, furnished room houses, boarding houses, private clubs, hostels, cottages, camps, chalets, barracks, dormitories, and apartments.VII. "Permanent resident" means any occupant who has occupied any room in a hotel for at least 185 consecutive days. (i.e. short term = 184 or less) (motor vehicles are 180 days or less)

Here the proposal going to the full City Council & Planning board...

Woodsy

[nitrovandam]

The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong.


LOL And what party runs NY and San Fran and Laconia? Are ya seeing a pattern here? Hence the DOWNFALL of The once great state of New Hampshire.
Carry on now, see what else you can ruin.

[covelife]

Originally Posted by pondguy

The arm of government that is to big. Way to many laws.

Yes, but wish they would do more to deal with the hoarders in town that use their properties as a junkyard!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.


So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

With the City of Laconia I would definitely not make that assumption. Especially since this is relatively new. I do know that many HOA's in the area do not allow business of any type to be run out of homes but the city itself does allow certain types of business to be run from the home. I inquired several years ago and I know I am allowing to run my CPA practice out of my home in Laconia but later found out my HOA does not allow it.

[Rusty]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Rusty

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

Not a fan of the new proposal that would allow rentals in certain areas but would "require approval on neighbors". It should be its allowed or not. You cannot leave it up to neighbors to decide if someone can or can't rent. It's like opening Pandora's box. If someone is disgruntled for unrelated issues they can just vote no

[Red apple]

Originally Posted by Rusty

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Red apple

OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.

And the end result we will all lose. I believe you are correct, someone with deep pockets will sue and the Laconia's legal fees to defend will be astronomical.

[TiltonBB]

A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.

The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b9547f675.html

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.



The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.



https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b9547f675.html

Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

NH already has the Meals and Rentals Tax of 9%. So this would be more similar to Key West where you pay the state tax and the local tax.

The huge difference is a renter just needs to go to another town the lake to avoid the Laconia Tax. Remember this is a town that already has property taxes out of control so owners are already passing on what the market will bare of those property Taxes.


Just so we all understand what a renter pays now in fees (I can tell you first hand the market is having a hard time bearing it).

A HomeAway/VRBO fee to the home owner, is $500 per year, plus fees on every rental that vary.

The renter pays, up to $499 in home away fees plus 9% NH rentals tax, plus most places have a cleaning fee, possible other fees.

The total fees being charged to an owner and renter on a property that is ~$4500+ rental (pretty typical for a week on the lake) is an extra $1000 being shared between the owner and renter.

The result is many homeowners have has to reduce pricing slightly. Now, let us add another local tax, why would anyone rent in Laconia when they can go one town over and avoid that fee.

The result will be a potential property buyer will weight this in their decision-making process even if they don't plan to rent but like the option. They will either pay less for the property in Laconia or just elsewhere.

This applies to the entire city.

Sorry for my terrible grammer.