Kayak fees

[LIforrelaxin]

I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....

They will never approve a 1% sales tax and then leave future increases up to the voters, also sales tax always goes into the general fund and we now what happens once it goes there, it disappears never to be seen again

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....

So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.

[tis]

I don't know what a kayak or canoe has to do with Fish and Game, except some people do fish from them. So wouldn't a fee that was more related to F&G be appropriate?

[Woodsy]

F&G has traditionally relied on hunting & fishing licenses for funding.... but there are fewer of them every year. It has also been tasked with SAR operations as well. Those are SAR ops can have budget busting costs. They police the ATV system too. Not to mention most small rivers & bodies of water get policed by F&G as well.

While I have no faith that the political gurus in Concord will not steal from the sticker $$$ eventually. I do think that something needs to be done to help fund F&G. I am all for a $10 sticker...

Woodsy

[rick35]

I don’t think there’s a way to collect the fee or enforce having a decal especially with all the out of state vacationers. Do we want to collect the fee and then add staff to distribute decals and add staff to check for decals? Michigan thought about a $10 fee but tossed the idea in April. They had no way to manage it. Same here.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.

Alright you have me there maybe.... But let me further develop the idea....

So you implement a 1% sales tax suddenly the coffers are full and there is less scrambling for money... Step on Complete.

The follow up with additional legislation to fund agencies like fish and game, etc. out of the general fund.... instead of doing things like trying to force money from illogical places...

everyone thinks that the entire equation needs only have one step... NH has a funding problem end of story... First need is adequate cash flow... Second need is a refactoring of how state agencies are funded....

I could go on and on, but I won't because you can look at other similar minded threads that have post from me and get the full picture... Trust me my outlook is much more then just adding a 1% sales tax, that is on the tip of the ice burg on what needs to happen.

Instead NH will continue to raise property Taxes until it become undesirable to own a second home in NH and then the funding problems will get worse... when people aren't paying their property tax....

As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....

[tis]

I seem to remember hearing NH had a surplus.

[8gv]

The issue with the income tax is the rate can and likely rise over time.

I was a resident of CT when Lowell Weiker was elected to governor running on a "no income tax" platform.

Well, he gave us an income tax but lowered the sales tax.

Both have crept up over the years.

A 1% income tax will grow and grow and grow.

Having seen CT and NH goverments in action, I am convinced that the only way to ensure responsible spending is to maintain a budget condition of near starvation.

[fatlazyless]

Maybe a paddle fee stamp would be easier to monitor/administer than a kayak fee stamp?

If that brightly colored red-blue-green-orange annual $20 fee stamp were stuck to the blade of your paddle, it would make you feel like you is getting your moneys worth with every paddle stroke. The more you paddle, the lower the $20/stroke/annual fee cost per stroke which lowers the price/stroke!

Plus, when the MP putt-putts past you, coming or going, you get in the habit of waving your paddle, so the red-blue-green-orange paddle stamp can be seen by the friendly police ...... so many happy paddlers out there today!

Own two kayaks ........ well ....... the stamp is on the paddle ..... not the kayak ..... so that's a price saving ..... there ...... the stamp goes on the paddle!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....

Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

...those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not.

Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.

Because a large part of and ever increasing portion of F&G's operations budge is SAR. Why shouldn't those that utilize it pay for it?

The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.

If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?

[fatlazyless]

Here's a local bargain price kayak for sale ...... a brand new Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 .... color medium blue ...... size 13.5' x 34" .... weighs 70-lbs.... supports 500-lbs ... "perfect family kayak" ..... seats two .....sit on top .... the Plymouth Walmart has three Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 kayaks w/ paddles for end of season price $250 ....... reg price $495 .... just came in two weeks ago

This is a lot of kayak for $250 ...... go paddle the big beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee in sales tax free New Hampshire ....... September is the quiet month and the water is still warm enough ...... seats two adults ...... plus two kids and a basset hound ...... woof-woof-woof ....arrroooooo!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?

If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.

This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by joey2665

This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?

Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Descant

Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.

Yes that is for EMT services but not police or fire department responses.

[Descant]

I think in NH, term limits pretty much are taken care of by the voters and the fact that our politicians are essentially unpaid ($100/year for House and Senate). With two year terms, approximately 1/3 of the legislature turns over every election; governors rarely do more than 6 years (Lynch did 8, Hassan 4, right?). Most states have a four year governor's term, and they rarely serve more than two terms.
So we're unique here and I think our volunteer government works well. We're always getting fresh faces, but we also have some dedicated folks who supply corporate memory.
BTW, the state does not run on property taxes. The towns do and you can go to town meeting to pass or amend the budget every year.
The state budget relies on Business profits tax, Business enterprise tax, tobacco tax, Interest and dividends tax, liquor revenues and the like with a significant influx of federal money.

I like the idea of a"Boat Safe" card that I can carry and use on either my canoe or my kayak, but there maybe should be a sticker too, like the one I get from BoatUS, just so others know and will participate too. This works for the "Parks plate" for my car that gets me park privileges in NH. (NH parks are self-funded, no general fund money for operations).

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.

Funny (NOT) how everybody talks about RAISING taxes for this and that, but NEVER TALK ABOUT WASTE, FRAUD, AND CORRUPTION, and just doing a better job of managing, and spending money (more) wisely... How about we start with looking to SAVE money here and there (FIRST), before we look to raise taxes (AGAIN)...??? How long do you have to continue to throw more and more money at a problem that NEVER gets resolved... I think that is the definition of insanity, is it not??? Why is man so stupid that he can't learn from the past...??? When I drive around and see some of these police stations, fire stations, and other Govt buildings (both local and state) that have nicer kitchens, gyms, bathrooms, and other amenities that a lot of the taxpayer's don't even have, it kind of pisses me off... Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with "rich" people, (private citizens), having it all, it's their money, God Bless them, but when I see Govt buildings that have the best of everything at the taxpayer's expense, something is wrong... Do public building's really need granite counter tops?? I know they don't ALL have them, but you get my point. Go ahead and beat me up now. Can't help how I feel...

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....

Well we agree on one thing, there are a number of elected representatives at the local, state and federal level who regularly demonstrate a staggering level of incompetence, or maybe they are so intoxicated on their own political agenda that rational thought and fact take the back burner to their ideology.

Far as taxes go I like that there is one source of revenue as it makes people pay attention to what they are voting for since it will be directly reflected in the big checks that are already being written. All states face the same dilemma, government is fundamentally inefficient and the tax payers are forced to pay for it. Where the money comes from is irrelevant. However so long as that funding source remains isolated to a single place, in NH's case property taxes, people tend to pay far more attention to it than if it's spread across in tiny increments via broad based taxes. Unfortunately whenever anyone tries to clean this up and run government more like a business they get thrown out of office and are crucified by their fellow politicians. Just look at what happened to Craig Benson, he tried and didn't last long. It's to bad he had some really good ideas but the "system" rejected him. Everyone talks a good game on the campaign trail but once in office many do nothing to fix things. In fact if they actually fixed things they would have nothing to complain about next time they run.

[tis]

They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by tis

They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.

That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.

There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

I didn't start this one, (so you can't accuse me of coming on the forum with an agenda!!), but I'll be happy to join in!!!!!!!!!! I love a good (political) debate. Bring it on...

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists...

I think I could say that about every President in history.

[Major]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

I think I could say that about every President in history.

If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor; if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance. The biggest whopper in presidential history, which resulted in the worst legislation ever. Thank God it’s being dismantled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

I think I could say that about every President in history.

No you can't. I could give you a long list, but for the sake of "getting off topic", I will give you one glaring example of promises made by other Presidents that were NEVER kept, that Trump has kept. It is the moving of the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Many Presidents (on both sides) had promised this move in the past, but never delivered, Trump did it in less than 2yrs!! The man makes things happen. That's the difference between a businessman and a politician.

[rick35]

And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.

[fatlazyless]

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...-lakes-project

Did you know that Lake Winnipesaukee and the Sea of Galilee in northern Israel are same size fresh water lakes, and in 1993 became sister lakes, or something?

Bet you Israel does not have a Walmart with that $249, reg price $495, (no sales tax-NH) Sun Dolphin Bali, 13.5' x 34", blue, weighs 70-lb, 500-lb capacity, family kayak ....... like what they got at the Plymouth Walmart!

[Major]

Originally Posted by rick35

And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.

I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Major

I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!

LOL it's all good till you run out of people to take money from.

[tis]

I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by tis

I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.

As a business owner won't your tax burden be much lower when you file your 2018 tax return due to something Trump did earlier this year?

[tis]

Not much lower, but a little is better than nothing.

[JEEPONLY]

I recently heard a sixteen year old say that he goes duck hunting, on Winni, in a kayak, with a shot gun! Do people really do this?

[tis]

If he does he's probably illegal. I think you have to be 200' from houses to shoot. I can't think of many places on Winni where houses would be that far away.

[8gv]

I was wondering if the red kayaks will win out over the blue kayaks in the race that will be held in early November and how would a kayak fee affect the outcome of the race.