Another Nail in Bike Week's Coffin ??

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Can one then also assume that during the vastly attractive hockey tournament in the winter that all vendors will also be charged a similar fee. If not then the vendors shall have a fine court case for discriminatory fees which will cost the Town of Meredith more money than they will ever receive from the vendors.

Charging $500 for one week's worth of commerce is the same as charging a year round food vendor (read restaurant) a fee of $26,000 - pretty steep protection money. Even the mafia did not extract that large a sum from there
"clients"

Except that this event, Bike Week, requires a significant expenditure for public safety, DPW, Etc. It cannot fairly be compared to a permanent restaurant that may never require any services from the town.

I do not see the comparison to the hockey tournament for the same reason. It also has an insignificant impact on the town's budget.

It is more fair that the participants assume the cost than it would be to pass it on to the taxpayers.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Except that this event, Bike Week, requires a significant expenditure for public safety, DPW, Etc. It cannot fairly be compared to a permanent restaurant that may never require any services from the town.

I do not see the comparison to the hockey tournament for the same reason. It also has an insignificant impact on the town's budget.

It is more fair that the participants assume the cost than it would be to pass it on to the taxpayers.

Thanks for making the obvious point. It was the first thing that poped into my mind when I read Across America's post.

[Lakegeezer]

The vendors at the Meredith hockey tourny are on state property (the ice), not town property. That might also make a difference in the fees from bike week.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The vendors at the Meredith hockey tourny are on state property (the ice), not town property. That might also make a difference in the fees from bike week.

The lake is not "state property". Every part of the lake is in whatever town it is in such as Laconia, Meredith Etc. If you look at the right chart you will see the town lines crossing the lake.

[wifi]

The $500 flat fee is unfair, the small hot dog stand pays the same as the big boys. Would have been better to have a prepared food tax, like the state does on restaurants. It is the number of people overloading the system, not the number of vendors. It is really knifing small business in the back.

Then again, maybe the small guys can get together and form a LLC, as one business, and divide the profits up later. Again, it is too many people, not too many vendors.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by wifi

The $500 flat fee is unfair, the small hot dog stand pays the same as the big boys. Would have been better to have a prepared food tax, like the state does on restaurants. It is the number of people overloading the system, not the number of vendors. It is really knifing small business in the back.

Then again, maybe the small guys can get together and form a LLC, as one business, and divide the profits up later. Again, it is too many people, not too many vendors.

Big reason why you don't see hot dog stands in Laconia. The vendor fees are imposed year round. It also affect health and craft fairs. You don't see them in Laconia. The state even hold their job fairs outside of Laconia at the Belknap Mall.

I have organized a number health fairs in NH. I organized one in Laconia a few years ago, but the city insist all the vendors buy a license. Since health fair vendors are non-profit and provide free service, they cannot afford the fees. Health Fair was called off.

I can see the effect in Meredith with Pond Hockey and the Fishing Derby.

[Woodsy]

I personally don't have a problem with vendor fees. But I do think $500 is a little unreasonable considering the only places vendors set up in Meredith are Laconia Harley & harts Turkey farm. I expect those places will struggle to fill the vendor spots as more of them go to Loudon or elsewhere.

That being said....

You can bet your bottom dollar Meredith will impose the same fees on the Pond Hockey vendors... they too require special coverage from the town in the form of traffic details, Police, Fire & EMS presence etc etc....

Woodsy

[swnoel]

The government needs to justify it's existence. Explain what additional cost it is to the city, for someone to own and struggle, attempting to make a living selling hot dogs!! Why do you need a $500 permit or for that matter any permit? Maybe it would be better to set up tolls into the city and charge people for using their streets! Just think... it might work to keep people out of the city, resulting in thousands of dollars in savings!

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Everyone is tripping over a $500 fee, no one is talking about the Thousands of dollars LHD charges for a vendors spot... Odd.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Everyone is tripping over a $500 fee, no one is talking about the Thousands of dollars LHD charges for a vendors spot... Odd.

If that is the case, LHD can add $450-$500 to each vendor spot or take that from their fee.

I too am surprised that Meredith did not already have a vendor fee.

BTW, from Laconia Daily Sun it is $500 for food vendors and $450 for others. Not that that plays in to this discussion.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by swnoel

The government needs to justify it's existence.

I read this rationale for the government's existence somewhere once, and thought it sounded good:

To form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I read this rationale for the government's existence somewhere once, and thought it sounded good:

To form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

Drink up my friend... drink up!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Drink up my friend... drink up!

I'll drink the Kool Aid that is the United States Constitution any day. The ideas and ideals that it describes are just as valid today as they were 229 years ago.

Think about this: every person who is and ever has been a member of our armed forces and protects your rights and freedoms took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. Have they all been drinking the Kool Aid too? How insulting if you believe that's the case.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I'll drink the Kool Aid that is the United States Constitution any day. The ideas and ideals that it describes are just as valid today as they were 229 years ago.

Think about this: every person who is and ever has been a member of our armed forces and protects your rights and freedoms took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. Have they all been drinking the Kool Aid too? How insulting if you believe that's the case.

As did the Commander in Chief. How has that worked out?

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

As did the Commander in Chief. How has that worked out?

If you care to be more specific, I will be happy to address whatever issue you feel there is. Otherwise, I can only guess at what you are referring to.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

If you care to be more specific, I will be happy to address whatever issue you feel there is. Otherwise, I can only guess at what you are referring to.

https://nworeport.me/2015/12/16/a-li...al-violations/

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

https://nworeport.me/2015/12/16/a-li...al-violations/

I do try to understand other peoples points of view so I checked this link. It is on a website whose masthead says:

NWO Report

NWO News,End Time,World News and Conspiracy News.

At least the site puts it up front, difficult to see anything objective here. I am not sure but I think that NWO is New World Order

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I do try to understand other peoples points of view so I checked this link. It is on a website whose masthead says:

NWO Report

NWO News,End Time,World News and Conspiracy News.

At least the site puts it up front, difficult to see anything objective here. I am not sure but I think that NWO is New World Order

Exactly. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially if A) it's an opinion piece, and B) it's written at a fifth grade level (to include the expected grammatical errors).

Here's the bottom line: if the executive or legislative branch acts in an extra-constitutional manner, there's a remedy for that: the court system. Don't you think that if in fact a president was doing all sorts of crazy stuff in violation of the Constitution, that his political adversaries would be challenging him in court, and the judicial branch would be ruling against the president? Why isn't that happening on the grand scale that it should be if all these claims are true? Are we going to hear next that it's because of all the partisan judges that are on the bench? To be sure, some things that the president has done recently have been challenged in court, and some of those things have been ruled unconstitutional, but not to any greater degree than with other recent presidents. See, the system works.


Here's one example of debunking one of the claims in the link that was provided:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/interpol.asp

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

Exactly. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially if A) it's an opinion piece, and B) it's written at a fifth grade level (to include the expected grammatical errors).

Here's the bottom line: if the executive or legislative branch acts in an extra-constitutional manner, there's a remedy for that: the court system. Don't you think that if in fact a president was doing all sorts of crazy stuff in violation of the Constitution, that his political adversaries would be challenging him in court, and the judicial branch would be ruling against the president? Why isn't that happening on the grand scale that it should be if all these claims are true? Are we going to hear next that it's because of all the partisan judges that are on the bench? To be sure, some things that the president has done recently have been challenged in court, and some of those things have been ruled unconstitutional, but not to any greater degree than with other recent presidents. See, the system works.


Here's one example of debunking one of the claims in the link that was provided:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/interpol.asp

The reason why more has not been done to rein in this out of control president is the congress is afraid of being branded racist because of the color of the president. And because congress has not moved, that is why Trump is winning so many supporters and has a better than 50 - 50 chance of taking the White House come November. Many are outraged by the lack of concern by congress.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

Exactly. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially if A) it's an opinion piece, and B) it's written at a fifth grade level (to include the expected grammatical errors).

Here's the bottom line: if the executive or legislative branch acts in an extra-constitutional manner, there's a remedy for that: the court system. Don't you think that if in fact a president was doing all sorts of crazy stuff in violation of the Constitution, that his political adversaries would be challenging him in court, and the judicial branch would be ruling against the president? Why isn't that happening on the grand scale that it should be if all these claims are true? Are we going to hear next that it's because of all the partisan judges that are on the bench? To be sure, some things that the president has done recently have been challenged in court, and some of those things have been ruled unconstitutional, but not to any greater degree than with other recent presidents. See, the system works.


Here's one example of debunking one of the claims in the link that was provided:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/interpol.asp

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/17/fa...beral-blogger/

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

As did the Commander in Chief. How has that worked out?

About as well as the last couple appointees to the supreme court ability to interpret it.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by maxum

about as well as the last couple appointees to the supreme court ability to interpret it.

the commander in chief ???

The supreme court ???

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I'll drink the Kool Aid that is the United States Constitution any day. The ideas and ideals that it describes are just as valid today as they were 229 years ago.

Think about this: every person who is and ever has been a member of our armed forces and protects your rights and freedoms took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. Have they all been drinking the Kool Aid too? How insulting if you believe that's the case.

Are you talking about the same Constitution that's been ignored by the same corrupt individuals sworn to uphold it? Don't get me going about our corrupt government! I've taken that oath , so don't tell me about honor and integrity ... something sorrily missing by most government officials! You drink the kool-aid being offered by them, because our government and the Constitution are two separate things ! The sad part is how these elected people remain in these positions, continually doing what they do best... nothing constructive to protect individual rights and freedoms!! We all know how they stay in the positions of power, mandating and regulating every aspect of our lives under some pretext that they're saving us for us! It doesn't surprise me that town of Laconia will find anyway to extract money out of bikers week regardless of the impact to the businesses of the local community, even if it results with the ending of it, which by the way, I believe is what they want! That IS what they do well!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Are you talking about the same Constitution that's been ignored by the same corrupt individuals sworn to uphold it? Don't get me going about our corrupt government! I've taken that oath , so don't tell me about honor and integrity ... something sorrily missing by most government officials! You drink the kool-aid being offered by them, because our government and the Constitution are two separate things ! The sad part is how these elected people remain in these positions, continually doing what they do best... nothing constructive to protect individual rights and freedoms!! We all know how they stay in the positions of power, mandating and regulating every aspect of our lives under some pretext that they're saving us for us! It doesn't surprise me that town of Laconia will find anyway to extract money out of bikers week regardless of the impact to the businesses of the local community, even if it results with the ending of it, which by the way, I believe is what they want! That IS what they do well!

Wow, so many exclamation points. I never passed judgment on "the government." I extolled the virtues of the Constitution of the United States. In a representative democracy, the people get the government that they deserve. You don't like the way that your elected representatives act? Fine, run for office yourself, form a new political party, support a candidate that holds your views, or start a movement. But to blame the Constitution for whatever problems you see in our current political system is absurd.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by swnoel

The government needs to justify it's existence. Explain what additional cost it is to the city, for someone to own and struggle, attempting to make a living selling hot dogs!! Why do you need a $500 permit or for that matter any permit? Maybe it would be better to set up tolls into the city and charge people for using their streets! Just think... it might work to keep people out of the city, resulting in thousands of dollars in savings!

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost. Bike Week has become basically a break even event for the city. It is now set up so that the taxpayers do not have to foot the bill. And don't forget, every business owner pays the city for a permit so that they can park cars or have vendors on their property.

If you object to vendor permits would it be your intention that the taxpayers foot the bill for the increase in city expenses that week?

City employees get more overtime, local businesses get some much needed revenue after a long winter, and many new people visit and enjoy the area.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost.

You could also say that Laconia has figured out how much they can extract from Bike Week, and has increased the city budget for police, fire, etc. by that same amount.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost. Bike Week has become basically a break even event for the city. It is now set up so that the taxpayers do not have to foot the bill. And don't forget, every business owner pays the city for a permit so that they can park cars or have vendors on their property.

If you object to vendor permits would it be your intention that the taxpayers foot the bill for the increase in city expenses that week?

City employees get more overtime, local businesses get some much needed revenue after a long winter, and many new people visit and enjoy the area.

Are you suggesting that the vendors are the reason the bikers come to Laconia? If so... then charge them, but something tells me it's the other way around! To even suggest they should pay for the additional cost to the community is ridiculous! Laconia happens to be on the lake which happens to be a summer tourist stop...it's not the vendors fault. It's just another way for government to extort money from businesses under the guise they here to help them!

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bc&oe=58528737

[SAMIAM]

Also...state of NH takes 9% rooms and meals tax from all food vendors.....add that to the $500 fee

[Pineedles]

Let's never forget that it is the people of the United States that employ the government. Also another fact to remember. The more money the government takes in taxes, fees, and fines, the more it spends!

[fatlazyless]

Does any of the 9% state sales tax on prepared food come back to the Town of Meredith?

I don't know if it does or not?


And, how is the 9% state food tax money used by the State of New Hampshire? Is there a state website link that shows what happens with the 9% food tax?

So, when I go to Heath's in Center Harbor and spend 2.39 + .21 tax for 2.60-total on a breakfast bagel with bacon, egg, and cheese ..... like, how does the 21-cents tax revenue get used by the state? Where does the tax money go? Does any of it come back to Center Harbor?

[GBGX2]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Does any of the 9% state sales tax on prepared food come back to the Town of Meredith?

I don't know if it does or not?


And, how is the 9% state food tax money used by the State of New Hampshire? Is there a state website link that shows what happens with the 9% food tax?

See this link:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...TOC-V-78-A.htm

Section 78-A:26 Disposition of Revenue:

78-A:26 Disposition of Revenue. –
I. Beginning on July 1, 1995, and for each fiscal year thereafter, the department shall pay over all revenue, except revenues identified in paragraph III of this section, collected under this chapter to the state treasurer. On or before September 15 of each year, the department shall determine the cost of administration of this chapter for the fiscal year ending on the preceding June 30, and it shall notify the state treasurer of these costs by a report certified by them as to correctness. After deducting the cost of administration of the chapter from the total income, the state treasurer shall distribute the net income as follows:

(a) The amount necessary to provide payments of principal and interest on the bonds and notes authorized under RSA 198:15-a, II for the fiscal years ending June 30, 2009 through June 30, 2030;
[Paragraph I(b) suspended by 2015, 276:268 for the biennium ending June 30, 2017]


(b) An amount equal to 3.15 percent of the net income distributed under the introductory paragraph of paragraph I and subparagraph I(a) in the first year of the preceding fiscal biennium, which shall be credited to the department of resources and development, division of travel and tourism development;
(c) Forty percent of the net income under the introductory paragraph of paragraph I of the most recent fiscal year to the unincorporated towns, unorganized places, towns, and cities. The amount to be distributed to each such town, place, or city shall be determined by multiplying the amount to be distributed by a fraction, the numerator of which shall be the population of the unincorporated town, unorganized place, town or city and the denominator of which shall be the population of the state. The population figures shall be based on the latest resident population figures furnished by the office of energy and planning; and
(d) The remainder to the general fund.
II. Each fiscal year, the amount to be distributed shall be equal to the prior year's distribution plus an amount equal to 75 percent of any increase in the income received from the meals and rooms tax for the fiscal year ending on the preceding June 30, not to exceed $5,000,000, until such time as the total amount distributed annually is equal to the amount indicated in subparagraph I(c).
III. Beginning on July 1, 1999, and for each fiscal year thereafter, the department shall pay over all revenue collected pursuant to RSA 78-A:6, II-a to the state treasurer for deposit in the education trust fund established by RSA 198:39.

[fatlazyless]

So, how much of the 9% tax did Meredith get back from the State of NH in 2015.....if it got any money back? Do the individual towns get any tax money coming back?

[GBGX2]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

So, how much of the 9% tax did Meredith get back from the State of NH in 2015.....if it got any money back? Do the individual towns get any tax money coming back?

(c) Forty percent of the net income under the introductory paragraph of paragraph I of the most recent fiscal year to the unincorporated towns, unorganized places, towns, and cities. The amount to be distributed to each such town, place, or city shall be determined by multiplying the amount to be distributed by a fraction, the numerator of which shall be the population of the unincorporated town, unorganized place, town or city and the denominator of which shall be the population of the state. The population figures shall be based on the latest resident population figures furnished by the office of energy and planning;

[fatlazyless]

So, if I ask someone in Meredith Town Hall how much the town received from the state for 2015.....what's the actual amount?

Hate to just be asking questions without having an answer?

Is there a big long list of all the individual towns and cities in NH that shows how much is collected, and how much gets returned to each individual town?

[GBGX2]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

So, if I ask someone in Meredith Town Hall how much the town received from the state for 2015.....what's the actual amount?

Hate to just be asking questions without having an answer?

Is there a big long list of all the individual towns and cities in NH that shows how much is collected, and how much gets returned to each individual town?

Some of these links are "dated" but the information, I believe is still valid !

http://www.lfda.org/issues/meals-rooms-tax-revisions

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl...news/150519288

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl...NION/301220369

"Tourist mecca Hampton, for example, with a population of 15,000 residents, received slightly more than $672,000 in rooms and meals tax money from the state in 2011, while Derry, with a population of 34,000, received more than $1.5 million, despite the fact Derry generates far less in rooms and meals taxes.

While Derry has just 103 businesses paying rooms and meals tax, according to the New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration, Portsmouth has 270, and Hampton and Hampton Beach have a combined total of 331.

The major flaw in the formula is it does not take into account the significant costs Portsmouth and Hampton incur providing increased police, fire and other services needed for the influx of tourists who pay rooms and meals taxes."

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Also...state of NH takes 9% rooms and meals tax from all food vendors.....add that to the $500 fee

As you are aware, the vendors are not out of pocket an additional 9%. That is collected from the customer for each purchase. Sure the vendors have some additional work to track that amount and pay the state, but I would assume that is factored in when pricing the food they sell. All (most?) states have a similar tax.

[songkrai]

Amazing.
Some just can't control their dipsomania with national politics.
Please, open a new thread on that subject.

As far as Meredith vendor fees go.

I read so much on how the Lakes Region wants more businesses.
Why hinder all of this?

Answer: "We" want the lake area to look "pretty".

Live Free of Die. Make sure to add all of the fees to that live free part.

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The lake is not "state property". Every part of the lake is in whatever town it is in such as Laconia, Meredith Etc. If you look at the right chart you will see the town lines crossing the lake.

The various towns own the islands in the lake but the state owns the water and holds it in trust for the public's use.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

The various towns own the islands in the lake but the state owns the water and holds it in trust for the public's use.

The towns do not own the islands. Most islands are owned by individuals or many individuals and the islands come under the jurisdiction of whatever town they are in. The rules and regulations, such as zoning, of the town that the islands are in are also in effect on the islands.

The exception to this is islands like Stonedam that are held in other manners such as conservation trusts.

[AC2717]

I think the difference might be that Labatt's sponsors the hockey tournament and the organizers and they dump a lot of money into the town to be able to do this and it is paid for in advance by those that are participating in the tournament and the vendors go to them for set up space
vs bike week where each one is on their own with the town itself and participants are not paying anything unless they purchase from the vendors