Village Kitchen

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

OK, well I suppose I earned that.

Especially love the Wednesday night turkey dinner which is crazy good and inexpensive

Shhhh... really though, it is really really good- I get it to go many Wed nights!

[GusMan]

I don't know SAMIAM, but *love* the VK (I've only been for breakfast).

I completely understand the disadvantage of using the on premises ATM vs a credit card. Nobody likes to pay additional fees. However, it is this very same reason (among others I'd imagine) that the VK chooses not to accept credit cards.... it would shift the fee burden from the consumer to the business that already operates on such slim profit margins.

Now, I would guess that with a high end fancy restaurant with guest checks averaging many times what the VK averages... it would be easier to absorb such fees as part off doing business.

Not that I have any experience in the restaurant business... other than patronage that is!

See you at the VK in the spring... cash in hand!

Cheers...

Gusman

[gillygirl]

For those who have been there, what's your favorite meal?

[tummyman]

For starters, Seth and team make a terrific clam chowder and lobster bisque/lobster chowder. It is not on the menu every night, but when it is, it cannot be beat. For entree's.....Turkey on Wednesday night, Prime Rib on Saturday, Turkey Clubs, English Style Fish and Chips, Friday Fish Fry, Scallop dinner, etc. etc .etc. Get the drift....it is ALL good !!!!! And do not miss the butternut squash as a veggie.

[Newbiesaukee]

We are more breakfast eaters. Hard to pick a favorite but the home fries are superlative ( and they taste good, too). And second the butternut squash.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by GusMan

I don't know SAMIAM, but *love* the VK (I've only been for breakfast).

I completely understand the disadvantage of using the on premises ATM vs a credit card. Nobody likes to pay additional fees. However, it is this very same reason (among others I'd imagine) that the VK chooses not to accept credit cards.... it would shift the fee burden from the consumer to the business that already operates on such slim profit margins.

Now, I would guess that with a high end fancy restaurant with guest checks averaging many times what the VK averages... it would be easier to absorb such fees as part off doing business.

Not that I have any experience in the restaurant business... other than patronage that is!

See you at the VK in the spring... cash in hand!

Cheers...

Gusman

My point is, many people will not go and patronize a restaurant because it is cash only and may pose a inconvenience for some.
If I have to take $20.00 out of the ATM it is going to cost me $3.00 to do so. If a restaurant accepts CC's at 0.04% that same $20.00 costs them $0.80. If I were a restaurant owner, I would rather pay $0.80 vs. losing out on $19.20.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

My point is, many people will not go and patronize a restaurant because it is cash only and may pose a inconvenience for some.
If I have to take $20.00 out of the ATM it is going to cost me $3.00 to do so. If a restaurant accepts CC's at 0.04% that same $20.00 costs them $0.80. If I were a restaurant owner, I would rather pay $0.80 vs. losing out on $19.20.

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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Although they may not be losing that $19.20 they are technically losing it as an opportunity cost. At that point though you're arguing business economics which is pointless on this forum unless you own this place.

Say the business holds 10 tables and those 10 tables are occupied 24/7 or to 100% of their capacity. Do you as the business owner say ok I'm happy these 10 seats are always full or do you look to expand to 15 tables and make sure 15 tables are always full? Sure there is better answers for making more money and better answers to whether or not as the business owner you really need it.

So if anything for me a place that full all the time really isn't that appealing. Now since I have never been there before like a barber shop seeing 10 people waiting inside doesn't scream come in we have great food or give great haircuts. To me it screams ill be waiting an hour or so. Some people don't mind a wait but I personally do.

On a side note I am hungry, where is this place so I can try it now?

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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Of course they are. You can certainly argue that they don't care as they have a line consistently, but the fact remains that the line is xxx number of people less than it could be.

But the real question is - who cares at this point? They are aware, it's not going to change, and those of us that don't normally carry cash will continue to not go the times we don't have cash. Put another way, it is what it is......accept it already.

[Billy Bob]

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

[Pineedles]

I think you are out of line Billy Bob. You state that cash businesses and not paying all your taxes go together. Then you make a disclaimer but imply that by thinking about your statement we should conclude that the VK being a cash business doesn't pay all its taxes. You cant have it both ways. You owe the VK an apology and should delete that part of your post.

[phoenix]

I guess this will never end and gets more absurd as we go on . Samiam thanks for staying out of this. You are a true professional who runs a great restaurant the way you want to .

[camp guy]

I think phoenix has summed it up nicely, and I think it is about time to put this thread to rest. Good night!

[tis]

I agree. It amazes me how some people feel the need to look at the negative on here.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I think you are out of line Billy Bob. You state that cash businesses and not paying all your taxes go together. Then you make a disclaimer but imply that by thinking about your statement we should conclude that the VK being a cash business doesn't pay all its taxes. You cant have it both ways. You owe the VK an apology and should delete that part of your post.

I totally agree. For some reason some people think that everyone who owns a business is making ton's of money and they are stepping on people or cheating someone along the way. The owners of the VK appear to be hard working people who put in a lot of hours working hard and provide a product that many people want at a price they are willing to pay. This does not make them crooks or tax cheats and does not give someone on the internet the excuse or right to accuse them of being so!

Lets stop the BS with the unfounded accusations, those individuals who are making them are only making an ass out of themselves. What can you possibly have to gain by accusing or inferring that someone is cheating on their taxes?

[exlakesregioner]

Have never put a restaurant meal on a credit card, call me old fashioned but if I can't pay cash for a meal I shouldn't be going out to eat.

[ITD]

Sorry you folks saying 2% isn't a big deal, run a business first and see what it all about before you make a statement like this. That 2% comes right off the top, right out of the profit. I have no idea what Sam's margins are like, but the restaurant is in a competitive area with several others nearby which has to figure into the prices he charges, charge too much and people move on.

Let's say at the end of the year Sam makes a 10% profit on his business using his cash model. If he converts to credit card payment and his customers all start charging their meals his 10% profit now becomes 8%, a 20% loss in income.

Also, 2% is a number that high volume users get for their service, I doubt VK does that level of business, Sam might end up paying 3 or 4 percent, which is a potential 30 to 40 percent loss in revenue if my 10% number is correct. There are also monthly fees usually imposed for CC service, such as a user fee and equipment rental fees, all that comes right off the top and eat into profit.

On top of that, I recently found out that tips given via CC have 39% taken off the top as payroll deductions for taxes here in Mass. (probably less in NH due to no state income tax, but maybe not, I don't know.) Now most of the servers I know are no where near in that income bracket, so they must wait until tax time to get the rest of their income returned to them from the IRS.

Bring some cash with you, it's not a big deal and well worth it for the value you get when you eat there.

You're in NH now, don't Mass. it up. :>) ( I love that saying.)

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ITD

On top of that, I recently found out that tips given via CC have 39% taken off the top as payroll deductions for taxes here in Mass. (probably less in NH due to no state income tax, but maybe not, I don't know.) Now most of the servers I know are no where near in that income bracket, so they must wait until tax time to get the rest of their income returned to them from the IRS.

Every employee of every company is required to pay taxes based on their income. Servers at restaurants who receive a cash tip are no different.
The difference you are talking about is what the servers claim as income.
-If a customer gives them a cash tip, the IRS requires them to claim 100% of that. Some do, some don't. But that is the law.
-If a customer gives a credit card tip, there is documented proof of income, so it really has to be claimed.

The IRS knows approximately what a server makes in tips based on their sales. So if a server is not claiming 100% of their tips (cash or credit), chances are the IRS can figure it out fairly easily.

[Newbiesaukee]

Assuming the server actually gets the tip amount on the credit card.

This comment is totally not directed at VK, one of my favorite places on the Lake. I would pay in crops if they did not accept cash.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Every employee of every company is required to pay taxes based on their income. Servers at restaurants who receive a cash tip are no different.
The difference you are talking about is what the servers claim as income.
-If a customer gives them a cash tip, the IRS requires them to claim 100% of that. Some do, some don't. But that is the law.
-If a customer gives a credit card tip, there is documented proof of income, so it really has to be claimed.

The IRS knows approximately what a server makes in tips based on their sales. So if a server is not claiming 100% of their tips (cash or credit), chances are the IRS can figure it out fairly easily.

I missed this. The point is that most servers will never be anywhere near the 39% tax bracket. Taking more than they owe is wrong.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ITD

I missed this. The point is that most servers will never be anywhere near the 39% tax bracket. Taking more than they owe is wrong.

You get taxed on what you claim on your W2 form, based on the number of dependents.
I am not a server, but I get more taken out of my paycheck every week than I owe. When I do my taxes, I get a small refund because of that.
I have no idea what tax bracket I am in, nor does it matter, but I pay my fair share. So should servers, bartenders, hair stylists, and all tipped employees.

[Winnisquamer]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought you had to make over 400k a year to be taxed 39%?

Cant remember from when I took accounting but I thought rule of thumb for a person filing single you were taxed something like this.



Or jointly

Any accountants that can weigh in?

[drwamcross]

Winnisquammer...the tables are correct, so incremental income over the amounts shown ($400k +) is taxed at 39.6% but due to the graduated rates, up to that point, the total effective tax rate is around 28% on the income under the $400k figure.

[Acrossamerica]

My God this thread is like watching a ten car accident. You really don't want to see the carnage but still must have a look to see what has happened. In this case the carnage is reading too many posts by too many codgers (myself included) who have nothing else to do.

Surely there must be a different restaurant owner or subject that can be pulled apart by all of the experts on board.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

And the dead horses keep piling up. May be time to call in animal abuse.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by chipj29

You get taxed on what you claim on your W2 form, based on the number of dependents.
I am not a server, but I get more taken out of my paycheck every week than I owe. When I do my taxes, I get a small refund because of that.
I have no idea what tax bracket I am in, nor does it matter, but I pay my fair share. So should servers, bartenders, hair stylists, and all tipped employees.

Nice way to completely miss the point, have a nice day.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ITD

Nice way to completely miss the point, have a nice day.

I don't want to continue derailing this thread, but I can't let this slide.
Can you explain what your point is?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by chipj29

I don't want to continue derailing this thread, but I can't let this slide.
Can you explain what your point is?

Against my better judgement I'll respond. I think I've made my point quite clearly that most wait staff, especially in the lakes region, are in the lower, if not lowest tax brackets, some probably don't have to pay tax at all if they are part time. Yet they have the maximum tax withheld from tips, at least this is done in Massachusetts as I said before. That's an unnecessary burden, were everyone who worked required to have 39% of their wages withheld regardless of income level there would be a revolution.

You apparently think anyone complaining about anything regarding taxes is a scofflaw trying to get out of paying taxes, it's tiring and honestly, while I understand there are crooks out there, frankly they are few and far between. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are honest, rather than assume all people who deal in cash are crooks and cheats.

The IRS and state tax people are quite adept at finding cheats and scofflaws and wringing what they owe out of them, unless of course, they are politically connected.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by ITD

Yet they have the maximum tax withheld from tips, at least this is done in Massachusetts as I said before. That's an unnecessary burden, were everyone who worked required to have 39% of their wages withheld regardless of income level there would be a revolution.

Based on IRS guidelines: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html it appears that tips should be taxed at the employees standard witholding rate, not at the 39% rate by default.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ITD

Against my better judgement I'll respond. I think I've made my point quite clearly that most wait staff, especially in the lakes region, are in the lower, if not lowest tax brackets, some probably don't have to pay tax at all if they are part time. Yet they have the maximum tax withheld from tips, at least this is done in Massachusetts as I said before. That's an unnecessary burden, were everyone who worked required to have 39% of their wages withheld regardless of income level there would be a revolution.

You apparently think anyone complaining about anything regarding taxes is a scofflaw trying to get out of paying taxes, it's tiring and honestly, while I understand there are crooks out there, frankly they are few and far between. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are honest, rather than assume all people who deal in cash are crooks and cheats.

The IRS and state tax people are quite adept at finding cheats and scofflaws and wringing what they owe out of them, unless of course, they are politically connected.

Sorry but you are wrong on the bolded. They are taxed at whatever withholding rate (number of exemptions) they select on their W2 (or is it W4?).

You are also wrong when you said I think that anyone complaining about taxes is a scofflaw. I am just trying to clear up misinformation.
With that said, my opinion is that all people who earn income in the USA are legally obligated to claim 100% of that income.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by exlakesregioner

Have never put a restaurant meal on a credit card, call me old fashioned but if I can't pay cash for a meal I shouldn't be going out to eat.

Welcome to 2015.I almost never have cash and put 99% of my purchases on my debit card which is my checking account.No fees just way more convienent than making sure I have cash in my pocket.I wont be spending something I dont have which is your reasoning.You can still be old fashioned in a todays kind of way without using a credit card.A debit account is really not different for you except a lot more friendly.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Welcome to 2015.I almost never have cash and put 99% of my purchases on my debit card which is my checking account.No fees just way more convienent than making sure I have cash in my pocket.I wont be spending something I dont have which is your reasoning.You can still be old fashioned in a todays kind of way without using a credit card.A debit account is really not different for you except a lot more friendly.

Yes but.............It is not quite as friendly to the waitresses who prefer cash tips to having to wait for the employer to do the bookeeping and cut them a payroll check. Many waitstaff live day to day and anything they can put in their pocket right away helps the cause. It might even pay for the babysitter while they work!

[Winnisquamer]

Question? So our whole lives we have been taught to watch how we spend our money, but now we have to watch how we spend our money again so the method of delivery for the people who are employed by the people taking said money for a service can be pleased with how it is delivered to their pockets?

Majority of us "normal" Americans are living paycheck to paycheck these days anyways! My student loans for my undergraduate degrees alone would cover some peoples mortgages. I don't want to wait till next Friday for my employer to do the book keeping either but such is life. So I smartly (really not that smart, common sense actually) save my money so I have enough to last me until the next paycheck. I think it was a class in high school called surviving basic life as an adult.

Could totally care less if they prefer cash or credit. Business owner can run it as they please, perks of owning your own business. To me food is food, if it's good which it seems like it is from this thread I'd eat there and pay cash or credit doesn't matter to me.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

Question? So our whole lives we have been taught to watch how we spend our money, but now we have to watch how we spend our money again so the method of delivery for the people who are employed by the people taking said money for a service can be pleased with how it is delivered to their pockets?

Thank you! You took the words right out of my mouth!

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Yes but.............It is not quite as friendly to the waitresses who prefer cash tips to having to wait for the employer to do the bookeeping and cut them a payroll check. Many waitstaff live day to day and anything they can put in their pocket right away helps the cause. It might even pay for the babysitter while they work!

My wife worked at TBones and was paid her tips in cash nightly, including credit card payment tips. Not sure if that's norm but I expect it is. My family owns a local restaurant here, in Laconia, and the tips are also paid in cash nightly.

[codeman671]

It is not uncommon for smaller breakfast places to be cash only. There are a few down here on the seacoast that I can think of that are. The Wooden Spoon in Somersworth, for instance has never taken cards.

Some of them do work the old fashioned way though, paper slips and no POS systems. Not saying they are hiding anything, but some people still do it manually.

I do think its a bit ridiculous not to take them. Since restaurants are a card swipe situation, not keyed in entries, the rates are cheaper. My business takes cards, sometimes in very large transactions, and we end up paying 2.5%+ because they are keyed entries. Swipes can be done as low as 1.6%.

Why not just bump the prices up a dime to cover it?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

I disagree with most everything in your post. The food is great, the prices are reasonable and the staff is friendly and very competent. Many people obviously drive a lot more than 10 miles, and go there often, that explains the busy days.

Most restaurant businesses are on a Pont of Sale system to make things run more efficiently, to track costs, and to prevent employee theft among other things. Efficient restaurants track every meal cost right down to cents (or fractions) for salt and pepper. With today's computerized systems it is almost impossible to hide income.

In addition to that, the IRS has a lot of statistical data that tells them based on your costs what your income is. For example: If you own a coin-op laundry the IRS will calculate your income using your utility bills.

The Village Kitchen is a great stop for many people, and it should be.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

Didn't want to make a post on this topic but I did want to reply to Billy Bobs thought that being a cash business lets us be loose and easy with our taxes.
Not jumping on BB at all.....many people think that restaurants skim off a little mad money and they do have a good point about not taking cards.
We,and most other restaurants have a POS system (Point of Sales) Every order goes into kitchen and onto our central computer ..... our taxes are paid on the total sales.There is absolutely no way to manipulate or change any figures.
I've had random audits over the years,once by the IRS and once by NH Rooms & Meals and let me tell you that those guys know the business.They can tell from your check average,food cost and water consumption almost exactly what your sales should be.
Sorry about the credit cards.I know we could do a good deal more business if we took them and that day will come.
But for now....life is good.Mortgage paid,great crew,get to go to Florida in the winter when it's slow,able to keep prices reasonable (not planning an increase in 2016) Don't make a ton of money but enough to enjoy life.
Thanks for all the kind words and support.We love what we're doing.

[ishoot308]

Your a class act Sam!

Merry Christmas!

Dan