Village Kitchen

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Bob and Sammie, keep doing what works for you.

No problem. The rest of us W2 stiffs will handle paying the taxes. But I'm sure VK's motivation for not taking plastic is to avoid the credit card fees.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

No problem. The rest of us W2 stiffs will handle paying the taxes. But I'm sure VK's motivation for not taking plastic is to avoid the credit card fees.

Credit card fees on master card or visa are less than 2%, hardly reason for not accepting them given their convenience. That said, we remain big VK fans.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Credit card fees on master card or visa are less than 2%, hardly reason for not accepting them given their convenience. That said, we remain big VK fans.

I have to disagree with your 2% fee statement. As a business owner I see these fees every month. The fee structure varies with the card Issuer (MC, Visa, AMX, Dis.) and the style of rewards that the card offers. It is even different for a business , personal, or govt. card. Yes the merchant is helping the credit card company underwrite your rewards in the form of a higher "merchant discount fee". I've seen total card discounts vary from 2% to almost 5% depending on the card, a 2% total discount is almost never the case 3-1/4 to 4% is more the norm when you add all the fees up.

I don't blame VK for their reluctance to accept cards. I don't think anyone would care to just give away up to 5% of their income to with no real return on that investment. If VK has lines out the door during peak hours the lack of CCd acceptance can't be hurting their business volume to a great extent. Good for them. I wish I didn't need to accept cards, I could put the savings into something with a return to my business.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

I have to disagree with your 2% fee statement. As a business owner I see these fees every month. The fee structure varies with the card Issuer (MC, Visa, AMX, Dis.) and the style of rewards that the card offers. It is even different for a business , personal, or govt. card. Yes the merchant is helping the credit card company underwrite your rewards in the form of a higher "merchant discount fee". I've seen total card discounts vary from 2% to almost 5% depending on the card, a 2% total discount is almost never the case 3-1/4 to 4% is more the norm when you add all the fees up.

I don't blame VK for their reluctance to accept cards. I don't think anyone would care to just give away up to 5% of their income to with no real return on that investment. If VK has lines out the door during peak hours the lack of CCd acceptance can't be hurting their business volume to a great extent. Good for them. I wish I didn't need to accept cards, I could put the savings into something with a return to my business.

99% of restaurants accept cc's. To not accept them is anachronistic and frankly bad business.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

99% of restaurants accept cc's. To not accept them is anachronistic and frankly bad business.

If you don't like their CCD policy then don't eat there. As I said, with lines out the door during peak times the lack of CCD acceptance is apparently not hurting them too much.

Some things you can't change no matter how much you bitch about it. As you say there are plenty of places that will accept your plastic. Please visit your favorite restaurant that accepts it as that will make the line shorter for those of us who can remember to stock our wallet with some green backs from time to time. Personally I use cash for just about all personal expenses, Call me old fashioned or Anachronistic if you wish but I think that an empty wallet telling me to stop spending is a good thing.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

If you don't like their CCD policy then don't eat there. As I said, with lines out the door during peak times the lack of CCD acceptance is apparently not hurting them too much.

Some things you can't change no matter how much you bitch about it. As you say there are plenty of places that will accept your plastic. Please visit your favorite restaurant that accepts it as that will make the line shorter for those of us who can remember to stock our wallet with some green backs from time to time. Personally I use cash for just about all personal expenses, Call me old fashioned or Anachronistic if you wish but I think that an empty wallet telling me to stop spending is a good thing.

OK, well I suppose I earned that.

I want to reiterate that we LOVE VK and support it. We and our five kids have been to VK literally dozens of times and never been disappointed. Especially love the Wednesday night turkey dinner which is crazy good and inexpensive and will continue to frequent VK regardless of their payment policy. Gear down people and have a Merry Chrsitmas!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

OK, well I suppose I earned that.

Especially love the Wednesday night turkey dinner which is crazy good and inexpensive

Shhhh... really though, it is really really good- I get it to go many Wed nights!

[GusMan]

I don't know SAMIAM, but *love* the VK (I've only been for breakfast).

I completely understand the disadvantage of using the on premises ATM vs a credit card. Nobody likes to pay additional fees. However, it is this very same reason (among others I'd imagine) that the VK chooses not to accept credit cards.... it would shift the fee burden from the consumer to the business that already operates on such slim profit margins.

Now, I would guess that with a high end fancy restaurant with guest checks averaging many times what the VK averages... it would be easier to absorb such fees as part off doing business.

Not that I have any experience in the restaurant business... other than patronage that is!

See you at the VK in the spring... cash in hand!

Cheers...

Gusman

[gillygirl]

For those who have been there, what's your favorite meal?

[tummyman]

For starters, Seth and team make a terrific clam chowder and lobster bisque/lobster chowder. It is not on the menu every night, but when it is, it cannot be beat. For entree's.....Turkey on Wednesday night, Prime Rib on Saturday, Turkey Clubs, English Style Fish and Chips, Friday Fish Fry, Scallop dinner, etc. etc .etc. Get the drift....it is ALL good !!!!! And do not miss the butternut squash as a veggie.

[Newbiesaukee]

We are more breakfast eaters. Hard to pick a favorite but the home fries are superlative ( and they taste good, too). And second the butternut squash.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by GusMan

I don't know SAMIAM, but *love* the VK (I've only been for breakfast).

I completely understand the disadvantage of using the on premises ATM vs a credit card. Nobody likes to pay additional fees. However, it is this very same reason (among others I'd imagine) that the VK chooses not to accept credit cards.... it would shift the fee burden from the consumer to the business that already operates on such slim profit margins.

Now, I would guess that with a high end fancy restaurant with guest checks averaging many times what the VK averages... it would be easier to absorb such fees as part off doing business.

Not that I have any experience in the restaurant business... other than patronage that is!

See you at the VK in the spring... cash in hand!

Cheers...

Gusman

My point is, many people will not go and patronize a restaurant because it is cash only and may pose a inconvenience for some.
If I have to take $20.00 out of the ATM it is going to cost me $3.00 to do so. If a restaurant accepts CC's at 0.04% that same $20.00 costs them $0.80. If I were a restaurant owner, I would rather pay $0.80 vs. losing out on $19.20.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

My point is, many people will not go and patronize a restaurant because it is cash only and may pose a inconvenience for some.
If I have to take $20.00 out of the ATM it is going to cost me $3.00 to do so. If a restaurant accepts CC's at 0.04% that same $20.00 costs them $0.80. If I were a restaurant owner, I would rather pay $0.80 vs. losing out on $19.20.

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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Although they may not be losing that $19.20 they are technically losing it as an opportunity cost. At that point though you're arguing business economics which is pointless on this forum unless you own this place.

Say the business holds 10 tables and those 10 tables are occupied 24/7 or to 100% of their capacity. Do you as the business owner say ok I'm happy these 10 seats are always full or do you look to expand to 15 tables and make sure 15 tables are always full? Sure there is better answers for making more money and better answers to whether or not as the business owner you really need it.

So if anything for me a place that full all the time really isn't that appealing. Now since I have never been there before like a barber shop seeing 10 people waiting inside doesn't scream come in we have great food or give great haircuts. To me it screams ill be waiting an hour or so. Some people don't mind a wait but I personally do.

On a side note I am hungry, where is this place so I can try it now?

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's the thing--at this point lines are out the door and there's rarely a slow day, which means they're NOT losing $19.20.

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Of course they are. You can certainly argue that they don't care as they have a line consistently, but the fact remains that the line is xxx number of people less than it could be.

But the real question is - who cares at this point? They are aware, it's not going to change, and those of us that don't normally carry cash will continue to not go the times we don't have cash. Put another way, it is what it is......accept it already.

[Billy Bob]

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

[Pineedles]

I think you are out of line Billy Bob. You state that cash businesses and not paying all your taxes go together. Then you make a disclaimer but imply that by thinking about your statement we should conclude that the VK being a cash business doesn't pay all its taxes. You cant have it both ways. You owe the VK an apology and should delete that part of your post.

[phoenix]

I guess this will never end and gets more absurd as we go on . Samiam thanks for staying out of this. You are a true professional who runs a great restaurant the way you want to .

[camp guy]

I think phoenix has summed it up nicely, and I think it is about time to put this thread to rest. Good night!

[tis]

I agree. It amazes me how some people feel the need to look at the negative on here.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I think you are out of line Billy Bob. You state that cash businesses and not paying all your taxes go together. Then you make a disclaimer but imply that by thinking about your statement we should conclude that the VK being a cash business doesn't pay all its taxes. You cant have it both ways. You owe the VK an apology and should delete that part of your post.

I totally agree. For some reason some people think that everyone who owns a business is making ton's of money and they are stepping on people or cheating someone along the way. The owners of the VK appear to be hard working people who put in a lot of hours working hard and provide a product that many people want at a price they are willing to pay. This does not make them crooks or tax cheats and does not give someone on the internet the excuse or right to accuse them of being so!

Lets stop the BS with the unfounded accusations, those individuals who are making them are only making an ass out of themselves. What can you possibly have to gain by accusing or inferring that someone is cheating on their taxes?

[exlakesregioner]

Have never put a restaurant meal on a credit card, call me old fashioned but if I can't pay cash for a meal I shouldn't be going out to eat.

[ITD]

Sorry you folks saying 2% isn't a big deal, run a business first and see what it all about before you make a statement like this. That 2% comes right off the top, right out of the profit. I have no idea what Sam's margins are like, but the restaurant is in a competitive area with several others nearby which has to figure into the prices he charges, charge too much and people move on.

Let's say at the end of the year Sam makes a 10% profit on his business using his cash model. If he converts to credit card payment and his customers all start charging their meals his 10% profit now becomes 8%, a 20% loss in income.

Also, 2% is a number that high volume users get for their service, I doubt VK does that level of business, Sam might end up paying 3 or 4 percent, which is a potential 30 to 40 percent loss in revenue if my 10% number is correct. There are also monthly fees usually imposed for CC service, such as a user fee and equipment rental fees, all that comes right off the top and eat into profit.

On top of that, I recently found out that tips given via CC have 39% taken off the top as payroll deductions for taxes here in Mass. (probably less in NH due to no state income tax, but maybe not, I don't know.) Now most of the servers I know are no where near in that income bracket, so they must wait until tax time to get the rest of their income returned to them from the IRS.

Bring some cash with you, it's not a big deal and well worth it for the value you get when you eat there.

You're in NH now, don't Mass. it up. :>) ( I love that saying.)

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ITD

On top of that, I recently found out that tips given via CC have 39% taken off the top as payroll deductions for taxes here in Mass. (probably less in NH due to no state income tax, but maybe not, I don't know.) Now most of the servers I know are no where near in that income bracket, so they must wait until tax time to get the rest of their income returned to them from the IRS.

Every employee of every company is required to pay taxes based on their income. Servers at restaurants who receive a cash tip are no different.
The difference you are talking about is what the servers claim as income.
-If a customer gives them a cash tip, the IRS requires them to claim 100% of that. Some do, some don't. But that is the law.
-If a customer gives a credit card tip, there is documented proof of income, so it really has to be claimed.

The IRS knows approximately what a server makes in tips based on their sales. So if a server is not claiming 100% of their tips (cash or credit), chances are the IRS can figure it out fairly easily.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by exlakesregioner

Have never put a restaurant meal on a credit card, call me old fashioned but if I can't pay cash for a meal I shouldn't be going out to eat.

Welcome to 2015.I almost never have cash and put 99% of my purchases on my debit card which is my checking account.No fees just way more convienent than making sure I have cash in my pocket.I wont be spending something I dont have which is your reasoning.You can still be old fashioned in a todays kind of way without using a credit card.A debit account is really not different for you except a lot more friendly.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Welcome to 2015.I almost never have cash and put 99% of my purchases on my debit card which is my checking account.No fees just way more convienent than making sure I have cash in my pocket.I wont be spending something I dont have which is your reasoning.You can still be old fashioned in a todays kind of way without using a credit card.A debit account is really not different for you except a lot more friendly.

Yes but.............It is not quite as friendly to the waitresses who prefer cash tips to having to wait for the employer to do the bookeeping and cut them a payroll check. Many waitstaff live day to day and anything they can put in their pocket right away helps the cause. It might even pay for the babysitter while they work!

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

I disagree with most everything in your post. The food is great, the prices are reasonable and the staff is friendly and very competent. Many people obviously drive a lot more than 10 miles, and go there often, that explains the busy days.

Most restaurant businesses are on a Pont of Sale system to make things run more efficiently, to track costs, and to prevent employee theft among other things. Efficient restaurants track every meal cost right down to cents (or fractions) for salt and pepper. With today's computerized systems it is almost impossible to hide income.

In addition to that, the IRS has a lot of statistical data that tells them based on your costs what your income is. For example: If you own a coin-op laundry the IRS will calculate your income using your utility bills.

The Village Kitchen is a great stop for many people, and it should be.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Lets correct one thing .
They have a line out the door on Saturday and Sunday in the summer and some of the spring and fall weekends , short of that its no problem to get in and in the winter the turn rate is probably nothing to get excited about .
The owner probably does just fine for himself.

The food is " as expected " just good home style stuff but nothing to get all hot about or drive 10 miles for . Its served on those plates they use in schools .

The credit card is just a side note and we all know that "cash business " and not paying all your taxes go together , I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS NOT PAYING THEIR TAXES , but just think about it .

Didn't want to make a post on this topic but I did want to reply to Billy Bobs thought that being a cash business lets us be loose and easy with our taxes.
Not jumping on BB at all.....many people think that restaurants skim off a little mad money and they do have a good point about not taking cards.
We,and most other restaurants have a POS system (Point of Sales) Every order goes into kitchen and onto our central computer ..... our taxes are paid on the total sales.There is absolutely no way to manipulate or change any figures.
I've had random audits over the years,once by the IRS and once by NH Rooms & Meals and let me tell you that those guys know the business.They can tell from your check average,food cost and water consumption almost exactly what your sales should be.
Sorry about the credit cards.I know we could do a good deal more business if we took them and that day will come.
But for now....life is good.Mortgage paid,great crew,get to go to Florida in the winter when it's slow,able to keep prices reasonable (not planning an increase in 2016) Don't make a ton of money but enough to enjoy life.
Thanks for all the kind words and support.We love what we're doing.

[ishoot308]

Your a class act Sam!

Merry Christmas!

Dan

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

No problem. The rest of us W2 stiffs will handle paying the taxes. But I'm sure VK's motivation for not taking plastic is to avoid the credit card fees.

Everyone that dines out is required to pay the (9%) tax on meals. Not sure what you were trying to imply on that one.

*disclaimer* I do not own a business, just stating a fact