Alton Tries to Silence its Citizens

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

In normal circumstances, most would agree. But in this case, this is a "citizen" who has been continually disruptive, refuses to conform to Robert's Rules and other norms of public behavior in meetings, and is preventing the meeting from proceeding.

At some point it stops being free speech and just becomes obnoxious.

I have met this fellow. As we all have, I'm sure. I am certain that most Alton residents would agree his actions are counter productive. However, rather than let the gentlemen speak his mind for 5-minutes and further prove he is an idiot the selectmen took it upon themselves to prove they are idiots. There is a time and a place to call the police and this wasn't one of them.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I have met this fellow. As we all have, I'm sure. I am certain that most Alton residents would agree his actions are counter productive. However, rather than let the gentlemen speak his mind for 5-minutes and further prove he is an idiot the selectmen took it upon themselves to prove they are idiots. There is a time and a place to call the police and this wasn't one of them.

Thanks secondcurve. I was hoping to hear from someone with first (or second) hand experience here.

The impression I was left with after reading about this is that the citizen WAS given his 5 minutes, and then refused to stop when his time was up. I stand corrected and agree he should have been given his time.

[Rusty]

Below is the Board Policy Public Participation at Meetings

Question: Did the citizen break any of the rules in paragraph 3 ?

TOWN OF ALTON

PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AT BOARD MEETINGS

The primary purpose of the Board of Selectmen’s meetings is to conduct the business of the Town. The Board encourages residents to attend Board meetings so that they may become acquainted with the operation and programs of the Town. All official meetings of the Board shall be open to the press and the public. However, the Board reserves the right to meet and to adjourn or recess a meeting at any time. The Board also reserves the right to enter non-public session at any time, in accordance with the provisions of RSA 91-A:3.

Public participation in the Board’s regular meetings is a privilege that the Board has adopted in order to assure that persons who wish to appear before the Board and bring matters to its attention may be heard. At the same time, in order to assure that it may conduct its meetings properly and efficiently, the Board adopts as policy the following procedures and rules pertaining to public participation at Board meetings:

1. At regularly scheduled Board meetings, the agenda will reflect two (2) times during the meeting that allows for public input. Speakers will be allotted five (5) minutes per person unless extended by approval of the Board.
2. Complaints regarding individual employees, other individuals and/or any matter that may, in the opinion of the Board infringe on another persons rights of privacy will not be allowed, such matters must be directed to the Town Administrator during normal business hours at Town Hall.
3. When addressing the Board, all speakers are to conduct themselves in a civil manner. Obscene, libelous, defamatory or violent statements will be considered out of order and will not be tolerated. The Board Chair may terminate the speaker’s privilege to address the Board if the speaker does not follow these rules of order.
4. If a speaker does not follow these rules after being warned to do so by the Board Chair they may be removed from the meeting. Persistent violations of these rules may result in loss of the privilege to address the Board.

Purpose:

The purpose of this policy is to provide the Board with an opportunity to receive directly from citizens any concerns, desires, or hopes they may have for the community.

Procedure:

A. Persons wishing to be heard must state their name(s), and address and state the issue(s) they wish to be heard on.
B. Persons should try to speak directly to the issue, as briefly—and fully—as possible.
C. Persons should try to be specific about what they want acted upon -–if that is the case—by the Board.
Ground Rules:

A. The Chairman of the Board conducts public input.
B. The Chairman indicates how much time will be allowed for public input.
C. The Chairman will call on those wishing to be heard.
D. No discussion on individual personalities (good or bad) is permissible in public session.
E.The Board will make no decisions during Public Input.
F. Any person whose conduct is disruptive or disorderly will be ordered to cease and desist from such behavior. Should their behavior continue after due warning, they will be removed from the meeting room.

Adopted this 14th day of January, 2015, by the Alton Board of Selectmen


R. Loring Carr, Chairman
Marc DeCoff, Vice Chairman
Cydney Johnson, Selectman
Lou LaCourse, Selectman
David Hussey, Selectman

[upthesaukee]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...0606/150229668

[fatlazyless]

If someone is critical of a selectman in a town meeting, does that make it ok for the selectman to have that person arrested? No way - Jose!

Something like this also recently happened in Gilford, and it actually went to a trial court where the judge said something like "while the defendant may have been rude, he was not breaking any laws, and people do have the right of free expression.....up to an un-determined point."

After what happened in Gilford, I betcha the local Town of Alton prosecutor decides to drop it as not acceptable for prosecution...and respectfully suggests for the selectman to get a grip on himself and what happens at town meetings, and go saw up some firewood for an hour or so to just get over his (the selectman) being disrespected.

[BroadHopper]

I think they had a similar incident when a concerned citizen was arrested by the selectmen last year. Higher court overturn the lower court decision. It was a costly battle.

[Merrymeeting]

The video is here. You can watch and decide for yourself.

http://www.alton.nh.gov/Videos.asp

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

If someone is critical of a selectman in a town meeting, does that make it ok for the selectman to have that person arrested? No way - Jose!

As I said before: "The selectmen didn't have the citizen arrested, they asked the police chief to remove him. The citizen was told by the chief many times to stop talking and leave the room. The citizen refused to leave and kept talking. The chief had no choice but to arrest him. He would not have been arrested if he would have followed the chiefs instructions."

Watching the video, IMO the citizen made some defamatory remarks against the selectmen.
Definition of defamatory: (of remarks, writing, etc.) damaging the good reputation of someone.

[HellRaZoR004]

I see a very expensive lawsuit coming. There is absolutely nothing in what he said that was defamatory. They closed down public input, arrested him, and opened public input after he was escorted out of the room. This video shows it all.

[AC2717]

my only two cents on this topic
the town police are more in trouble, the selectman have a right to request the police chiefs presence to regulate the person if warranted. Police chief did not have probable cause to request him to stop talking nor probable cause to arrest him

[LIforrelaxin]

Did the man get charged with anything? Or did the Police chief simply take him into custody to remove him?

The board of selectman have the right to ask somebody to leave or have them removed, if that person is interjecting themselves in a disruptive way.

I actually have no problem with what seems to have happened, as long as the person wasn't charged with anything... This person has a track record of disrupting meetings, has been warned time and time again, and was finally dealt with in a way, that will hopefully teach him a lesson.

If he hasn't been charged with anything then there is no "further cost".... he was given a chance to speak, he was rude and orderly, and was removed... I know that some liberal feel good atty. will argue that his basic rights where violated... But where they really???? He brought a timer... come one really??? get the guy some help he probably needs it.... he was purposely trying to bring this on himself... end of story.....

[DBreskin]

Although this is not the main topic of this thread, there are several references to the term "libelous..statements" including paragraph 3 of the Alton public participation rules. It is impossible to be libelous while speaking, since by definition libel is written, not spoken. A spoken falsehood would be called slander.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Google the guy arrested. Jeffrey T. Clay. He seems to have a history of this stuff.

[Rusty]

Removed video.

[SIKSUKR]

Looks like a troublemaker to me.Has been escorted out of previous meetings 3 times.Had run-ins at with Newmarket school officials.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Looks like a troublemaker to me.Has been escorted out of previous meetings 3 times.Had run-ins at with Newmarket school officials.

No doubt he is a trouble maker. I think if they simply had allowed him to ramble on for 5-minutes it would have been better for all involved. Calling the officer into the room and having him watch the gentlemen while he got his 5-minutes of time would have been a better intermediate step.

Does anyone know what caused the man to be so obsessed with having the selectman resign? What is his issue?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

As I said before: "The selectmen didn't have the citizen arrested, they asked the police chief to remove him.

.....duh....oopsie-doopsie.....say.....maybe I'm just not the britest bulb on the tree???

[tis]

Obviously he has a beef. I wonder what it is. He should have said something about that rather than just repeating that they should resign. It made him look rather ridiculous.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Below is the Board Policy Public Participation at Meetings

Question: Did the citizen break any of the rules in paragraph 3 ?

TOWN OF ALTON

PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AT BOARD MEETINGS

The primary purpose of the Board of Selectmen’s meetings is to conduct the business of the Town. The Board encourages residents to attend Board meetings so that they may become acquainted with the operation and programs of the Town. All official meetings of the Board shall be open to the press and the public. However, the Board reserves the right to meet and to adjourn or recess a meeting at any time. The Board also reserves the right to enter non-public session at any time, in accordance with the provisions of RSA 91-A:3.

Public participation in the Board’s regular meetings is a privilege that the Board has adopted in order to assure that persons who wish to appear before the Board and bring matters to its attention may be heard. At the same time, in order to assure that it may conduct its meetings properly and efficiently, the Board adopts as policy the following procedures and rules pertaining to public participation at Board meetings:

1. At regularly scheduled Board meetings, the agenda will reflect two (2) times during the meeting that allows for public input. Speakers will be allotted five (5) minutes per person unless extended by approval of the Board.
2. Complaints regarding individual employees, other individuals and/or any matter that may, in the opinion of the Board infringe on another persons rights of privacy will not be allowed, such matters must be directed to the Town Administrator during normal business hours at Town Hall.
3. When addressing the Board, all speakers are to conduct themselves in a civil manner. Obscene, libelous, defamatory or violent statements will be considered out of order and will not be tolerated. The Board Chair may terminate the speaker’s privilege to address the Board if the speaker does not follow these rules of order.
4. If a speaker does not follow these rules after being warned to do so by the Board Chair they may be removed from the meeting. Persistent violations of these rules may result in loss of the privilege to address the Board.

Purpose:

The purpose of this policy is to provide the Board with an opportunity to receive directly from citizens any concerns, desires, or hopes they may have for the community.

Procedure:

A. Persons wishing to be heard must state their name(s), and address and state the issue(s) they wish to be heard on.
B. Persons should try to speak directly to the issue, as briefly—and fully—as possible.
C. Persons should try to be specific about what they want acted upon -–if that is the case—by the Board.
Ground Rules:

A. The Chairman of the Board conducts public input.
B. The Chairman indicates how much time will be allowed for public input.
C. The Chairman will call on those wishing to be heard.
D. No discussion on individual personalities (good or bad) is permissible in public session.
E.The Board will make no decisions during Public Input.
F. Any person whose conduct is disruptive or disorderly will be ordered to cease and desist from such behavior. Should their behavior continue after due warning, they will be removed from the meeting room.

Adopted this 14th day of January, 2015, by the Alton Board of Selectmen


R. Loring Carr, Chairman
Marc DeCoff, Vice Chairman
Cydney Johnson, Selectman
Lou LaCourse, Selectman
David Hussey, Selectman

Rusty: As senseless as this guy is, I don't think he met the criteria that you have highlighted.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Rusty: As senseless as this guy is, I don't think he met the criteria that you have highlighted.

I concur.

Sometimes you have to just count to 100 (10,000?) and play the long game.

Given more time, he may have acted in a way more within the definition.

I suspect he will become more trouble for the board than they could ever have imagined.

[Just Sold]

I think that the Selectmen should have let him ramble on for his 5 minutes and let it go at that.
I lived in Atkinson, NH in the 90's and worked for the town as a camera person recording the Selectman's meetings. We had a long time resident who would make their rather odd statements/suggestions to the Selectmen that normally had nothing to do with the actual meeting or the current agenda pretty regularly. They were allowed to do this and would even be thanked by the Selectmen and then they would continue with their meeting. The resident would then be quiet for the rest of the meeting.
I think the way Atkinson handled its resident is what the Alton Selectmen should have done.

[Coolbreeze]

I think the selection were facing a person who was clearly testing the system. There was a clear history of no love between the selection and this guy. It was if they were ready to trap this guy, the closest selection to the door went for help before the guy really started his talk. The guy wasn't even yelling in a tantrum. He was level headed the entire time. A simple resolution would be to have just give him his 5 minutes and go after him after reviewing the video with a attorney. Their actions regardless of the person being a nuisance to them or a true American expressing his right to speak should not have been stopped based on what I heard. The Police chief could have caused an explosive situation with someone who could have been violent. There was no need for his involvement. Cell phone calling for assistance???? How about a radio. Did he even have any protection if this guy turned out to have a weapon????? This is the stuff stuff where you see people go postal. I am sad for the people of Alton. I did not hear anything offensive from him; I hear similar remarks about our current federal leaders and see nobody being arrested for it. What is different here than everywhere else.

[Kamper]

As I understand it, "Libel" is expressing something as fact, which is damaging to a reputation when the speaker knows it is a false statement.

A period of 'commentary' infers that facts and opinions may be expressed. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes which is why libel and slander can be hard to prove.

That's all I think I know about that,

[dave603]

"3. When addressing the Board, all speakers are to conduct themselves in a civil manner. Obscene, libelous, defamatory or violent statements will be considered out of order and will not be tolerated. The Board Chair may terminate the speaker’s privilege to address the Board if the speaker does not follow these rules of order."

These rules seem to have been re-written this year.
I don't know if that was in there before or not, but it's
almost like they had this guy in mind when they wrote them.

[tis]

I wouldn't consider asking someone to resign or even telling them they should resign any of those things would you?

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by dave603

These rules seem to have been re-written this year.
I don't know if that was in there before or not, but it's
almost like they had this guy in mind when they wrote them.

I think you may be right, according to his blog:

In an effort to squelch my free speech rights whereby I attempt to hold the BOS accountable during public input time at BOS meetings for their willful violations of the peoples' rights, the BOS stopped airing public meetings on public TV, instituted a policy regarding pubic input (where none existed prior) limiting public input to five minutes and which dis-allows so called “personal attacks.”

Now he claims that he was hurt during the arrest.

ALTON — Right to Know advocate Jeffrey Clay said Monday that Alton Police Chief Ryan Heath physically hurt him when he was arrested for disorderly conduct at a board of selectmen's meeting on Feb. 3.

Alton's Chief of Police threw my left arm up behind my back, causing severe pain,” Clay said.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by dave603

"3. When addressing the Board, all speakers are to conduct themselves in a civil manner. Obscene, libelous, defamatory or violent statements will be considered out of order and will not be tolerated. The Board Chair may terminate the speaker’s privilege to address the Board if the speaker does not follow these rules of order."

These rules seem to have been re-written this year.
I don't know if that was in there before or not, but it's
almost like they had this guy in mind when they wrote them.

That's the way I understand it. The selectboard revised the policy and stopped showing live televised meetings. This aggravated Clay and now he wants them to pack their bags and go to...wherever??

Here is an article that is in the fosters this morning:
Clay claims he was hurt when arrested by police chief

Wednesday, February 25, 2015

ALTON — Right to Know advocate Jeffrey Clay said Monday that Alton Police Chief Ryan Heath physically hurt him when he was arrested for disorderly conduct at a board of selectmen's meeting on Feb. 3.

Clay, who has sued the Dover School Board for allegedly violating New Hampshire's laws about public meetings, was arrested by Heath after he asked members of Alton's board of selectmen to resign, during a public forum at their meeting, earlier this month.

The entire incident was captured by a local cable access television channel and posted on fosters.com. It shows that Clay sat down before the board, during the public forum, and said, “Every time I show up here, it is my most fervent hope that I am going to find that you folks have resigned. But you continue to show an unwillingness to step up to the plate and take responsibility for your poor actions as selectmen and resign. I am asking you to do that now.”

One of the board members said, “This is character assassination.”

Board Chair R. Loring Carr asked for two points of order as Clay continued to talk about the selectmen's actions. Carr asked his fellow board members if they felt Clay's statements were libelous and inflammatory.

Less than two minutes into Clay's statements, the board voted in favor of closing down their public forum because of the comments.
That did not stop Clay from speaking. He remained in his chair and started reading definitions of integrity, honesty and character.
That is when Carr told Clay, “You are done.”

Heath, who was in the audience, was asked to address the issue. He moved a set of chairs next to where Clay was sitting and approached him.
“You want to take your hands off me, please?” Clay asked Heath.

When Heath did not back away, Clay said again, “Take your hands off me, please.”
Heath told Clay that he had been asked to leave. Clay asked Heath if he was under arrest. Heath replied that he would be if Clay did not comply with his orders.

Clay again started to speak. Heath reached into his pocket, pulled out a cell phone and called for police back up.
After Clay finished reciting the definition of audacity, which means boldness or daring, especially with confident or arrogant disregard for personal safety, conventional thought, or other restrictions, Carr warned Clay for a third time.

Heath placed Clay under arrest. As he did, he pulled on Clay's left arm and led him from the room with that arm behind his back. That is when Clay says he was physically injured.

“Alton's Chief of Police threw my left arm up behind my back, causing severe pain,” Clay said in a letter sent to Foster's editors on Monday.
Clay said in the letter that he takes no pride in being arrested, but he takes “great pride” in the First Amendment and freedom of speech, and in citizens' duties to “hold public officials accountable when they violate laws and people's trust.”

“This is exactly what I was doing when I was arrested,” Clay said.

Lt. Todd MacDougall of the Alton Police Department said Tuesday that Clay was charged with two Class B misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct. These charges carry a fine as their maximum penalty.

Clay vowed to fight the charges against him.