Fireplace vs insert

[tis]

We have a fireplace that was built just as few years ago and we always have to crack a door or a window to keep from having the room smoke. We had a very reputable mason build it and he came back repeatedly to try to correct the problem but it still smokes. I sure wish we could get it to not smoke but maybe we are just going to have to live with it. Maybe the house is too tight.

[Merrymeeting]

For those who may be wondering about all the advice to use a newspaper high in the flue to get a draft going, it's simple physics/chemistry. Cold air sinks, hot air rises.

Before you start a fire, the masonry and flue are cold. You have a tall column of cold air sitting there. When you first start the fire, the heat from the fire must counteract the tendency of the cold air to "fall" into the room. If not, the cold air does "fall" into the room, carrying the initial smoke with it.

If you open the flue (or door) a bit before starting, you can sometimes allow the cold air in and the hot air from the room out, starting a bit of a flow up the chimney. Then light the newspaper as high up into the flue as you can get it and the draft should begin (this assumes no other issues with draft in your flue)

This phenomenon sometimes causes a slight odor problem for us in the Spring. The masonry mass and column of air in the flue is still cold. On a warm Spring day when we begin opening the doors and windows, we sometimes notice a burnt ash smell in the house. I finally realized that it was being caused by a reverse draft of air down the chimney as the cold air spills into the house, replaced by the warm air outside.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Then light the newspaper as high up into the flue as you can get it and the draft should begin (this assumes no other issues with draft in your flue)

exactly what I do! My woodstove at home has two elbows in the flu and an outside chimney (which cools off much more quickly than an interior chimney) making it even more important to get a good updraft before lighting the actual fire. If not you'll get a whole houseful of smoke!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by tis

We have a fireplace that was built just as few years ago and we always have to crack a door or a window to keep from having the room smoke. We had a very reputable mason build it and he came back repeatedly to try to correct the problem but it still smokes. I sure wish we could get it to not smoke but maybe we are just going to have to live with it. Maybe the house is too tight.

Many times these days new homes are entirely to tight... Construction techniques and materials have come a long why. Many times in new construction traditional fire places are looked at negatively because they comprimise what is a very efficient home... I have also seen and read of instances where new homes are so tight that they actually have to vent
air in on occasion.....

[tis]

I know, but I sure wish we could remedy the problem, LI!!

[jeffk]

I use a hair dryer to preheat the chimney air for a few minutes. Once the air starts moving there is far less smoke when you start the fire.

[DickR]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Many times these days new homes are entirely too tight... Construction techniques and materials have come a long way. Many times in new construction traditional fire places are looked at negatively because they compromise what is a very efficient home... I have also seen and read of instances where new homes are so tight that they actually have to vent air in on occasion.....

"Too tight" would mean only too tight for using a traditional fireplace without providing combustion air inlet some way. A fireplace lets far too much excess air go up the flue, and that air has to come in somewhere. In a leaky home, that's through the myriad cracks and holes in the exterior shell. No wonder many complain that the fireplace warms the room it's in while making other rooms so drafty and cold.

As far as building a new house deliberately very tight, that is the only strategy that makes sense if the intent is to make a very energy efficient house. The opinion still sometimes heard, that the house shouldn't be too tight, that it has to "breathe," is simply wrong. The occupants have to breathe fresh air, and the house has to avoid moisture accumulation problems. Air leakage is driven by pressure difference, and that is worst in cold, windy weather, but practically zero in mild, windless weather. Air at zero is 15% heavier than air at room temperature. It's like floating a leaky boat in the lake; you find all the leaks in a hurry. There is simply no way to build a house that leaks just the right amount of air for the occupants under any particular set of conditions, let alone under all conditions. The only strategy that works is building as tight as possible and providing ventilation air mechanically or via passive air inlets. In our area (climate zone 6), a good solution is to provide a heat recovery ventilator, basically a heat exchanger that brings in a controlled flow of fresh air, warming it up against the outgoing air being displaced.

A wood stove or pellet stove needs far less combustion air to run properly, less than even a new very tight house leaks in cold weather. Many stoves permit the direct connection of an outside air duct, disconnecting the air/flue path from the living space. Even so, lighting the fire in a stove can result in backdraft under conditions mentioned by others in this thread.

[ApS]

I stumbled on the "Rocket Stove" this morning. The flames travel sideways, burning all gases—even smoke and ash—from twigs and smaller, un-split, pieces of firewood. It vents whatever's left at ground level. (What's left of the firewood is moisture and CO2). It's said to be a "controlled chimney fire".

On the downside, the "rocket stove" is one hungry woodstove! But I suspect that's an indication of its efficiency.

In the first picture, the entire length of the "couch" is heated. A large thermal mass is contained within. The "thermal mass" can be rocks, bricks, or sand to hold and radiate heat.

The "Rocket Stove" didn't turn up on a search.

[Kamper]

When was the last time you had the chimney cleaned or inspected? I see lots of good advice and tips above but if your chimney is choked with soot and creosote it won't draw properly and you may be at risk for a chimney fire or carbon monoxide poisoning.

I have friends who have their own cleaning gear and I watched them do a cleaning through an exterior service hatch. It was a big mess with chunks of gunk and lots of soot. This chimney is for a wood-stove and I don't remember how often they do this job. I would suggest you hire a service since they will know how to do it with a minimum of mess and will probably include cleanup in the price. You will also get paper work which might be required by your insurance.

Good luck!

[DRH]

Originally Posted by Kamper

When was the last time you had the chimney cleaned or inspected? I see lots of good advice and tips above but if your chimney is choked with soot and creosote it won't draw properly and you may be at risk for a chimney fire or carbon monoxide poisoning.

I have friends who have their own cleaning gear and I watched them do a cleaning through an exterior service hatch. It was a big mess with chunks of gunk and lots of soot. This chimney is for a wood-stove and I don't remember how often they do this job. I would suggest you hire a service since they will know how to do it with a minimum of mess and will probably include cleanup in the price. You will also get paper work which might be required by your insurance.

Good luck!

I agree ... keeping the chimney flue clear of creosote and soot is important when one burns wood for heat. There are a number of professional chimney flue cleaning businesses in the Lakes Region, many of which charge around $100 - $150 for a thorough cleaning. It's well worth the annual investment and greatly reduces the possibility of a chimney fire.