No wake zones

HellRaZoR004 · 08-11-2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Bear

I think this 150' rule is specific to Green's Basin. This came out of the State "rules".

(z) From a point 150 feet from the east entrance of Green's Basin to a point 150 feet beyond the western entrance of Green's Basin shall be a “no wake” area.

Thank you, I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing it wrong in other places.

Greene's Basin Girl · 08-11-2014, 12:08 PM

The seventh edition of the " Boater's Guide of New Hampshire ( A Handbook of Boating Laws and Responsibilities) states the following:Unsafe Passage

Operating a vessel at greater than headway speed if within 150 feet of:

- Swimmers In the water
- Other vessels
- Rafts or Floats
- Permitted swimming areas
- Docks or mooring fields
- The shoreline
-Operating a vessel at greater than headway speed
while passing under a bridge
- Overtaking another vessel at a distance and speed
such that your sake causes danger or damage

The Real BigGuy · 08-12-2014, 12:07 PM

The problem with the no-wake issue is people don't usually look behind themselves to see what they are creating. (No offense meant but jetski's are some of the worst.) I don't believe that most people are intentionally malicious but, having lived in the Hole in the Wall no-wake for almost 20 years it doe get to the point where you have just had enough. You see you boat get banged around so many times that you have to get it out and you yell or whatever.

And then we get back to what is a no-wake? Headway or 6 mph. We don't want to go there. I remember coming out of the Weirs channel 25 years or so ago and getting yelled at by MP for a wake. "I'm not making a wake." I said. "Look behind you. Do you see white? That's a wake!" More people need to look behind them.

No reason everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake all of time.

tis · 08-12-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

The problem with the no-wake issue is people don't usually look behind themselves to see what they are creating. (No offense meant but jetski's are some of the worst.) I don't believe that most people are intentionally malicious but, having lived in the Hole in the Wall no-wake for almost 20 years it doe get to the point where you have just had enough. You see you boat get banged around so many times that you have to get it out and you yell or whatever.

And then we get back to what is a no-wake? Headway or 6 mph. We don't want to go there. I remember coming out of the Weirs channel 25 years or so ago and getting yelled at by MP for a wake. "I'm not making a wake." I said. "Look behind you. Do you see white? That's a wake!" More people need to look behind them.

No reason everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake all of time.

Excellent post!! You are exactly right.

salty dog · 08-12-2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

The problem with the no-wake issue is people don't usually look behind themselves to see what they are creating. (No offense meant but jetski's are some of the worst.) I don't believe that most people are intentionally malicious but, having lived in the Hole in the Wall no-wake for almost 20 years it doe get to the point where you have just had enough. You see you boat get banged around so many times that you have to get it out and you yell or whatever.

And then we get back to what is a no-wake? Headway or 6 mph. We don't want to go there. I remember coming out of the Weirs channel 25 years or so ago and getting yelled at by MP for a wake. "I'm not making a wake." I said. "Look behind you. Do you see white? That's a wake!" More people need to look behind them.

No reason everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake all of time.

This really is the key. Looking behind you, knowing your boat and paying attention. A couple of years ago I got the "arms down" motion from an MP in a no-wake. (luckily that was all). With my 21 ft Bayliner at dead low throttle or 3 mph, I'm just making a ripple. Any more than that and I see white. It seems maddeningly slow sometimes but following the no-wake to the T that's where I have to be. The problem sometimes is that, say in the Weirs Channel if you're leading the parade and they're lined up behind you, you feel like a jerk.

Woodsy · 08-12-2014, 03:26 PM

I really don't get why people do not understand this very simple, very clear rule.

270-D:1 Definitions

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

The legal interpretation is VERY clear.

You are allowed up to 6 MPH... regardless of the wake generated. The only reason you can exceed 6 MPH is to maintain steerage and control. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a moving boat to leave NO WAKE.

Some people think no wake means DEAD SLOW.... It does not nor was it ever intended to. If that was the case NOBODY would get out of Paugus Bay on Labor Day weekend.

I got pulled over once for NWZ violation.... I asked the officer what the issue was, he told me too fast in a NWZ... I indicated my GPS said otherwise. I was travelling at 5 MPH. I offered to demonstrate, he politely declined, and sent me on my way.

If you need more than 6 MPH that you better have a good reason why... water currents, boat hull design etc etc... the 6 MPH was not a randomly chosen number.

The NWZ should be relabeled to HEADWAY SPEED ONLY thus eliminating any confusion.

Also note that the term "headway speed" is also used in several other RSA's

Woodsy

Dave R · 08-12-2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I really don't get why people do not understand this very simple, very clear rule.

270-D:1 Definitions

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

The legal interpretation is VERY clear.

You are allowed up to 6 MPH... regardless of the wake generated. The only reason you can exceed 6 MPH is to maintain steerage and control. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a moving boat to leave NO WAKE.

Some people think no wake means DEAD SLOW.... It does not nor was it ever intended to. If that was the case NOBODY would get out of Paugus Bay on Labor Day weekend.

I got pulled over once for NWZ violation.... I asked the officer what the issue was, he told me too fast in a NWZ... I indicated my GPS said otherwise. I was travelling at 5 MPH. I offered to demonstrate, he politely declined, and sent me on my way.

If you need more than 6 MPH that you better have a good reason why... water currents, boat hull design etc etc... the 6 MPH was not a randomly chosen number.

The NWZ should be relabeled to HEADWAY SPEED ONLY thus eliminating any confusion.

Also note that the term "headway speed" is also used in several other RSA's

Woodsy

I have to confess that I used to think it meant the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage with an absolute max of 6 MPH...

tis · 08-13-2014, 07:33 AM

Obviously there is a big problem with this law. The way it is written it does sound like you can make a wake as long as you are doing the 6mph. However, MP is not usually going to agree with you. A wake is a wake.

Dave R · 08-13-2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Obviously there is a big problem with this law. The way it is written it does sound like you can make a wake as long as you are doing the 6mph. However, MP is not usually going to agree with you. A wake is a wake.

I don't think there's a problem with the law at all. The problem is that people, (including MP, apparently) seem to think that words on some little floating signs are to be taken literally and that they should ignore the actual law. I've seen signs in NH that say "idle speed only", but they are merely suggestions.

People that don't plan and prepare for the effects of wakes just because they have waterfront property or a slip in a no wake zone are being unrealistic and negligent. There's always a chance of a waves on water. Realistically, one could justifiably make a huge wake in a no wake zone if a human life was at stake.

With the 45/30 speed limit in place, and speed detection equipment on board MP boats, this seems like a VERY easy law for MP to enforce with quantifiable evidence.

depasseg · 08-13-2014, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Obviously there is a big problem with this law. The way it is written it does sound like you can make a wake as long as you are doing the 6mph. However, MP is not usually going to agree with you. A wake is a wake.

And the law (which is very poorly worded and misleading) mentions nothing about wake, waves, ripples, or anything of that sort. It only mentions speed.

Woodsy · 08-13-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by depasseg

And the law (which is very poorly worded and misleading) mentions nothing about wake, waves, ripples, or anything of that sort. It only mentions speed.

The law is not poorly written.. it is written to be easily enforceable. People unfortunately take the term "No Wake Zone" literally... when the term "No Wake Zone" is actually defined in the RSA as a "Headway Speed Zone"

Speed is the only thing that can be easily measured (radar, laser, etc) and is routinely accepted in a court of law...

Wake height is not easily measured and very much up for debate...

Woodsy

SIKSUKR · 08-13-2014, 10:41 AM

Against the current is not an issue with maintaining steerage. Going with the current is when you may sometimes need to go close to 10 mph(relative to the land) to maintain steerage in a 5 mph current.

depasseg · 08-13-2014, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The law is not poorly written.. it is written to be easily enforceable. People unfortunately take the term "No Wake Zone" literally... when the term "No Wake Zone" is actually defined in the RSA as a "Headway Speed Zone"

Speed is the only thing that can be easily measured (radar, laser, etc) and is routinely accepted in a court of law...

Wake height is not easily measured and very much up for debate...

Woodsy

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The law is clearly about speed, not wake, which I'm fine with. The poorly written part is how it's written as an "OR" without any sort of clarification and a bit of ambiguity.

As it is written, I see two interpretations:

- One is if you put an "either" before the 6mph
- The other is if you apply the "slowest" to the entire statement (i.e. the slower of either 6mph or maintain steerage")

Applying Boolean logic to the statement, the OR statement means only one of the 2 things must be true. Either 6MPH OR slowest possible to maintain steerage. You only need to do one of these. However, it seems there is enough confusion over the intent of the "slower" phrase, that it has become part of the equation. And in either case, it doesn't clarify if it is speed through water, or speed over ground.

To me, it would be much clearer if it were worded as either:

A) "Headway speed'' means no faster than 6 miles per hour (Speed over Ground i.e. GPS measured) unless the vessel is unable to maintain steerage, in which case the vessel must operate at the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage way. (this means you can go up to 6mph, and only go over in order to maintain steerage.)

or

B) "Headway speed'' means operating at the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage way. (this means go as slow as possible to maintain steerage).

Actual 270-D:1 Definitions

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

Woodsy · 08-13-2014, 03:10 PM

depasseg,

The law is actually very clearly written to allow variation and still have a set enforceable parameter. The set parameter is 6 MPH, you are not to exceed that unless deemed necessary (by you the captain) to maintain steerage. That's the variation. The burden of proof is on the MP below 6 MPH, the Burden of proof above 6 MPH is on you, the captain, to justify why you had to exceed 6 MPH.

There is no need for Boolean logic. There are plenty of precedents in the courts.

The NH Legislature recognized that different boats require different speeds to maintain steerage. They also recognized that requiring all boats to travel at the slowest possible speed of another craft was an undue burden. 6 MPH was the decided upon headway speed recommendation. This takes into account boat type, safety, boat traffic, currents, weather condition etc. Thus, you can actually get out of Paugus bay on a holiday weekend... Or up the Piscataqua River with an outgoing tide.

The Weirs Channel is approx 3/4 of a mile long... not counting boats stacking up. At 3 MPH its a 15 minute transit time... at 6 MPH its a 7.5 minute transit time.

Woodsy

Orion · 08-13-2014, 05:55 PM

I agree the law is poorly written.....but also agree with Woodsy. It makes no sense to make the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage the limit. I can reduce my speed to near zero and maintain steerage (such as when docking), so how could that possibly be the intent? Clearly the intent is 6 MPH speed limit and the MP needs to be re-educated.

tis · 08-13-2014, 07:07 PM

If the law was meant to be headway speed why don't they use headway speed signs like they used to.

Sorry, I don't think headway speed and no wake are the same thing and I don't think when you see a No Wake sign that the intention is to allow one to go headway speed no matter how much wake you are making. If the law was properly written we obviously would not have differing opinions on this.

depasseg · 08-13-2014, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

If the law was meant to be headway speed why don't they use headway speed signs like they used to.

Sorry, I don't think headway speed and no wake are the same thing and I don't think when you see a No Wake sign that the intention is to allow one to go headway speed no matter how much wake you are making. If the law was properly written we obviously would not have differing opinions on this.

Actually, No Wake Area and Headway speed are exactly the same according to the law. That part is clear. Headway speed markers instead of NWZ would be very helpful.

Perhaps it's a training issue with the Marine Patrol. There have been too many stories of people being stopped for making a wake.

rsmlp · 08-13-2014, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I really don't get why people do not understand this very simple, very clear rule.

270-D:1 Definitions

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

The legal interpretation is VERY clear.

You are allowed up to 6 MPH... regardless of the wake generated. The only reason you can exceed 6 MPH is to maintain steerage and control. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a moving boat to leave NO WAKE.

Some people think no wake means DEAD SLOW.... It does not nor was it ever intended to. If that was the case NOBODY would get out of Paugus Bay on Labor Day weekend.

I got pulled over once for NWZ violation.... I asked the officer what the issue was, he told me too fast in a NWZ... I indicated my GPS said otherwise. I was travelling at 5 MPH. I offered to demonstrate, he politely declined, and sent me on my way.

If you need more than 6 MPH that you better have a good reason why... water currents, boat hull design etc etc... the 6 MPH was not a randomly chosen number.

The NWZ should be relabeled to HEADWAY SPEED ONLY thus eliminating any confusion.

Also note that the term "headway speed" is also used in several other RSA's

Woodsy

Well said! few understand this obvious and correct interpretation-even MP!

Woodsy · 08-13-2014, 08:39 AM

Tis,

It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat moving forward NOT to leave a wake. A boat moving forward displaces water.. the water fills the void caused by the hull, creating a wake. Unless a boat is adrift and floating freely with the current, it is creating a wake. The height of the wake will vary with the type of hull, and the speed at which the hull goes thru the water.

Because of the myriad of boat hull designs, there is no way to define what is acceptable wake height, and what is not. Every hull is different and creates a different wake and that wake all varies with the forward speed of the boat.

The important clause here is "maintain steerage". Maintaining proper control of your boat is paramount and trumps ALL! Currents, boat traffic, wind & weather can all affect at what speed steerage can be maintained. For example, in the spring the Weirs Channel usually has a 5+ MPH current... to overcome that current you have to go a minimum of 7-11 MPH... guess what?? Your boat is making a pretty good wake!

The 6 MPH speed is essentially the standard acceptable speed that is universally recognized as the maximum speed necessary to maintain steerage for 98% of the recreational boats. Why 6 MPH and not 5 MPH? No idea!

Woodsy

ITD · 08-13-2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Tis,

It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat moving forward NOT to leave a wake. A boat moving forward displaces water.. the water fills the void caused by the hull, creating a wake. Unless a boat is adrift and floating freely with the current, it is creating a wake. The height of the wake will vary with the type of hull, and the speed at which the hull goes thru the water.

Because of the myriad of boat hull designs, there is no way to define what is acceptable wake height, and what is not. Every hull is different and creates a different wake and that wake all varies with the forward speed of the boat.

The important clause here is "maintain steerage". Maintaining proper control of your boat is paramount and trumps ALL! Currents, boat traffic, wind & weather can all affect at what speed steerage can be maintained. For example, in the spring the Weirs Channel usually has a 5+ MPH current... to overcome that current you have to go a minimum of 7-11 MPH... guess what?? Your boat is making a pretty good wake!

The 6 MPH speed is essentially the standard acceptable speed that is universally recognized as the maximum speed necessary to maintain steerage for 98% of the recreational boats. Why 6 MPH and not 5 MPH? No idea!

Woodsy

You don't have to go faster to maintain steerage in a current. You become part of the mass of water when you travel in a current. If your headway speed is 5 mph in still water then it will be 5 mph in a current relative to the water. Your speed relative to the point on land will be different in a current than in still water, but this does not affect your steerage and your wake is the same unless you speed up, which is unnecessary to maintain steerage. It's simple physics.

cillovely · 08-13-2014, 09:07 AM

I stayed in Center Harbor for the first time this past summer. I was very surprised there isn't any sort of no-wake zone as you get closer to the docks they way they have it in Meredith Bay and Alton Bay. All sorts of craft come barrel a$$-ing thru there full bore. I didn't really care other than the times when I'd be trying to dock my boat and the waves would be crashing making things tricky. I just thought it was odd.

I know on the Charles River there were many a kayaker and row-boater that would do the slow down wave in certain zones, but as it's been stated 6mph is no-wake, anything less it does get harder to maintain control and if I do make a little wave there isn't much I can do.

Seaplane Pilot · 08-13-2014, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cillovely

I stayed in Center Harbor for the first time this past summer. I was very surprised there isn't any sort of no-wake zone as you get closer to the docks they way they have it in Meredith Bay and Alton Bay. All sorts of craft come barrel a$$-ing thru there full bore. I didn't really care other than the times when I'd be trying to dock my boat and the waves would be crashing making things tricky. I just thought it was odd.

I know on the Charles River there were many a kayaker and row-boater that would do the slow down wave in certain zones, but as it's been stated 6mph is no-wake, anything less it does get harder to maintain control and if I do make a little wave there isn't much I can do.

That's because Rusty McLear and Alex Ray don't have waterfront hotels and restaurants in Center Harbor as they do in Meredith. Does anyone really think that the HUGE no-wake zone in Meredith is there just because the State thought it was a good idea? If so, then I have some swamp land in Florida that I would love to sell to you.

TiltonBB · 08-13-2014, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Tis,

It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat moving forward NOT to leave a wake. A boat moving forward displaces water.. the water fills the void caused by the hull, creating a wake. Unless a boat is adrift and floating freely with the current, it is creating a wake. The height of the wake will vary with the type of hull, and the speed at which the hull goes thru the water.

Because of the myriad of boat hull designs, there is no way to define what is acceptable wake height, and what is not. Every hull is different and creates a different wake and that wake all varies with the forward speed of the boat.

The important clause here is "maintain steerage". Maintaining proper control of your boat is paramount and trumps ALL! Currents, boat traffic, wind & weather can all affect at what speed steerage can be maintained. For example, in the spring the Weirs Channel usually has a 5 MPH current... to overcome that current you have to go a minimum of 7-11 MPH... guess what your boat is making a pretty good wake!

The 6 MPH speed is essentially the standard acceptable speed that is universally recognized as the maximum speed necessary to maintain steerage for 98% of the recreational boats. Why 6 MPH and not 5 MPH? No idea!

Woodsy

A couple of points that I would disagree with:

The movement of water across your hull is what leaves a wake, not necessarily your boat speed. For example: If you maintain a constant stationary position against the current in the Weirs Channel in the spring your boat will be leaving a wake, though not moving at all.

To travel against the current in the Weirs Channel (or anywhere with a strong current) the same 5 to 7 mile per hour speed is all that is needed. Don't confuse the speed of the water across your hull with your actual speed over the stationary land. Your boat speedometer (if not GPS) will indicate a higher speed than you are actually going because it will read off the pressure sensor and will not correct for water flow.

Many people are use to one "No Wake" speed RPM setting and fail to account for the movement of water underneath them and adjust accordingly. Quite often that is the reason that the Weirs Channel backs up so much. It would be nice if people looked behind them to see if their slow speed is causing a backup or handling problem for the boats following them. Not all boats react the same way at slow speeds.

Woodsy · 08-13-2014, 09:52 AM

TiltonBB & ITD...

Agreed! Its the old Air Speed vs Ground speed. LOL!

I was just trying to keep it simple... you need to increase your power to overcome the current.. so if the current is at 5 MPH and you are stationary, you are creating the same wake as you would @ 5 MPH in a no current or wind sea state.

Being stationary in a current of 5MPH your boat speedo will usually read 5 MPH even though you are not moving forward. Your GPS will read 0 MPH. When you move forward through the current at 5 MPH... your boat speedo will read 10 MPH and your GPS will read 5 MPH. However, you will be creating a 10 MPH wake and the engine power will be the equivalent of 10 MPH in a no current or wind sea state.

I totally understand it... I just didn't explain it fully!

Woodsy

Grove84 · 08-12-2014, 04:05 PM

Out enjoying the lake Saturday evening , coming through the no wake zone between Governors and Eagle Island, while in the no wake zone, a new Mastercraft comes through the no wake still on plane. So hit the airhorn along with the boat behind me and inform the mastercraft "It's a no Wake Zone". No response , just kept on going, but the MP's were in the right place at the right time and pulled them over. I was once a first time boater and made my share of mistakes and learned along the years to respect the others around me and the 150' rule. I have to admit that having been on the lake 15+ years now , this summer has been won of the toughest for rules of the road violations. But any day on the lake , beats a day at work

Greene's Basin Girl · 08-13-2014, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

The problem with the no-wake issue is people don't usually look behind themselves to see what they are creating. (No offense meant but jetski's are some of the worst.) I don't believe that most people are intentionally malicious but, having lived in the Hole in the Wall no-wake for almost 20 years it doe get to the point where you have just had enough. You see you boat get banged around so many times that you have to get it out and you yell or whatever.

And then we get back to what is a no-wake? Headway or 6 mph. We don't want to go there. I remember coming out of the Weirs channel 25 years or so ago and getting yelled at by MP for a wake. "I'm not making a wake." I said. "Look behind you. Do you see white? That's a wake!" More people need to look behind them.

No reason everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake all of time.

So what am I suppose to do? I live in an area where I have a large no-wake zone when heading out of the basin. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't have a PWC because the wake at the slowest speed is to fast? Do not go there! I have been in the basin for over 60 years and I plan to continue to enjoy it. Also keep in mind- many people purchase property in a no-wake zone and then yell and complain to everyone. I have known several newbies that purchase a place in a no-wake zone and then sit there all day screaming at everyone.

Orion · 08-13-2014, 11:32 AM

Woodsy nails it on all four latest posts.

jrc · 08-13-2014, 11:41 AM

We seem to have the subject a lot. Just remember if the MP pulls you over to discuss your wake, be nice. Once he gives you a ticket, now the burden is on you to fight it. The process is the punishment. Even if you win, you lost your time.

Also remember that these laws were written before GPS, no one really had accurate speed measurement at 6 MPH. So the MP use the white water as their visual clue.

The number one reason for No Wake Zones is safety, if I'm driving my boat safely, I don't care what people yell from shore. Safety means ability to control my boat and that my wake doesn't damage or injure people on other boats.

Rusty · 08-13-2014, 01:11 PM

I think what was left out of the boater certification process was that nobody had to take a class or learn from an experienced boater how to improve boat handling skills. I wonder how many boaters know how to properly use the trim and throttle to reduce a wake?

chipj29 · 08-14-2014, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

We seem to have the subject a lot. Just remember if the MP pulls you over to discuss your wake, be nice. Once he gives you a ticket, now the burden is on you to fight it. The process is the punishment. Even if you win, you lost your time.

Also remember that these laws were written before GPS, no one really had accurate speed measurement at 6 MPH. So the MP use the white water as their visual clue.

The number one reason for No Wake Zones is safety, if I'm driving my boat safely, I don't care what people yell from shore. Safety means ability to control my boat and that my wake doesn't damage or injure people on other boats.

I agree with everything you said with the exception of the bolded. I don't think safety is really the number one reason for no wake zones. For example, the giant NWZ on the other side of the Mosquito bridge at Lake Winnisquam. It is huge, and I don't see how that NWZ could have been put there for safety reasons.

Woodsy · 08-14-2014, 09:21 AM

The difference between the two....

Headway speed is REQUIRED in numerous SITUATIONS... within 150' of shore, other boats, docks, people, etc...

No Wake Zones are designated AREAS where headway speed is required but would not normally be required. Weirs Channel, Bridges, Bear Island, Meredith Bay, Between Governors & Eagle Is. Hole in the Wall etc...

The No Wake Zones have many uses... safety, traffic control, shoreline protection, political...

Woodsy

jrc · 08-14-2014, 09:33 AM

You're right, I should have said "supposed to be safety". As in any government endeavor, the intent of a law is not always the result.

Rich · 08-14-2014, 09:58 AM

Here's a puzzle for you captain batman:

You're headed into Paugus Bay, while going under the Weir's bridge, you throttle is at it's minimum possible, your GPS indicates a speed of 8 MPH. You have no problems steering and controlling your boat. Are you 'legal'?

Later in the day you're headed out of Paugus bay, while going under the same bridge, but you are not making any headway. The bridge is over your head but doesn't appear to be moving. So you add some throttle. Your GPS indicates a speed of 3 MPH, you can just barely maintain your heading, but your tach is showing a much higher engine speed than you would normally run to avoid a wake. Are you legal?

Some data if you need it (pick any day):

Seaplane Pilot · 08-14-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Here's a puzzle for you captain batman:

You're headed into Paugus Bay, while going under the Weir's bridge, you throttle is at it's minimum possible, your GPS indicates a speed of 8 MPH. You have no problems steering and controlling your boat. Are you 'legal'?

Later in the day you're headed out of Paugus bay, while going under the same bridge, but you are not making any headway. The bridge is over your head but doesn't appear to be moving. So you add some throttle. Your GPS indicates a speed of 3 MPH, you can just barely maintain your heading, but your tach is showing a much higher engine speed than you would normally run to avoid a wake. Are you legal?

Some data if you need it (pick any day):

This is almost more comical than the speed limit debate was. To answer your question, you are "legal" in both cases as mentioned (as interpreted by the law). The law says "headway speed is 6mph or the slowest speed necessary to maintain steerage". It does NOT say, "which ever speed is lower". Why is this so difficult to understand? Woodsy had it right earlier in this thread.

Rich · 08-14-2014, 10:35 AM

It isn't so hard to understand. Actually it's quite simple.

Some may not realize that you can't simply glance at your GPS to say that you're 'legal'. There are some places on the lake where there can be a significant current which can affect your boat.

In the first example, the current could be going 5 MPH or so, and your GPS could be indicating ground speed, not over the water speed. Which would the MP use (if the headway/steerage requirement was not in play)?

Woodsy · 08-14-2014, 10:48 AM

Rich...

Its pretty clear cut to me.... and I am guessing you too!

Thus the wording in the RSA "or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way"

If you are in a current moving at 5 MPH, and you are going an extra 3 MPH to maintain steerage... (you need to maintain control of the boat and not let the current push you sideways or into the middle of the channel) the MP are NOT going to bust on you. In fact sometimes in the spring & fall when they have the Lakeport Dam wide open to drain the lake, that is precisely what happens.

You could probably even successfully argue 11 MPH total. 5 MPH for the current and the 6 MPH you are allowed under the law....

Woodsy

Rich · 08-14-2014, 11:06 AM

Woodsy,

Yes, it's very clear to me also!

But I can't tell you how many times I've been in that channel and had to try to encourage people to move along. To me, this means that most people are trying hard to comply with the 'no wake zones', but almost to the point of being dangerous to others!

Small boats and jet skis may not feel it as bad as larger boats. But if you have a 38 foot boat (12.5 ft beam) that has over 16,000 lbs of weight (think: inertia), you sure need to maintain headway!

I've often thought I need a bull horn instead of a horn to warn others, but that may not help much either!

Descant · 08-14-2014, 02:32 PM

As you know, most small boat owners (not Forum members, of course) don't realize the size and thrust of your props, even at less than 500 rpm. They certainly don't think about speed as much as they concentrate on "No Wake".

1. "No wake zone" doesn't mean "No Passing Zone". If there's room...
2. In the Weirs Channel, just keep going at your slowest steerage speed. Don't blow your horn until your bow pulpit/anchor is just about even with the transom of the boat that is going too slow. They'll add a little more throttle.
3. Send somebody up to the bow to speak, not shout, with the offender and tell them you can't go any slower, safely.

I've seen these methods used with great effect.
The Weirs Channel is a difficult example for logic, when many people are there to "Cruise Main Street" not to transit to/from Paugus Bay.

There used to be explanatory signs by the bridge and at the south end of the Weirs Channel explaining that it should take 5 minutes from that point to the equivalent sign at the other end. The signs are long gone, but in my mind, if I were going slow enough to read the sign out loud, my speed was about right. No speedo, no GPS in those days. When I did get a boat with a speedo, it didn't register until about 10 kts.

GodSmile · 08-14-2014, 04:51 PM

Seems to me that if one stops to think about the intent of the rule, and not the lawyer wordsmith weasel words.... and respects others.... boaters, and people with shore property... seems to me all would be well. I've witnessed idiots on boats and land.... I must be in the minority.... I err on the side of the other person's rights. Seems to keep me out of trouble, although I will admit to being more than a little peeved at what I see at times.

Phantom · 08-14-2014, 05:31 PM

Lets get simple here......

The law is the law and you can interpret it or have it interpreted for you by an attorney.

But the sad fact remains, I have never ( not once) ever been successful explaining in a calm & professional manner to a MP ( or land LEO) that he is sadly mistaken in his interpretation of the regulation and why he pulled me over and should go back to training class !

I STILL get the citation-- (for which I am Pissed cuz I know I'm right)-- and an invitation to pay the fine or to challenge it in a court of their choice in the middle of the week ! Which is awesome seeing as I travel close to 40 weeks a year and
Live 2-1/2 hours away from the lake.

All this discussion is mute !

Just Sayin :

.

tis · 08-14-2014, 06:59 PM

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07-06-2010, 04:44 PM #1
Glove
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Clarification on "No Wake" rules
I am posting an email sent to Marine Patrol seeking clarification on rules governing speed in "No Wake" zones, followed by the reply from Lieutenant Timothy Dunleavy. (He has provided his consent to reproduction of the email trail in this forum.) I found Lt. Dunleavy's reply to be both interesting and informative.

Glove

__________________________________________________ ______________

Thu, June 17, 2010 9:19:47 AM
Subject: Clarification on "no wake rules"
From: Lake Citizen
To: [email protected]

Dear Marine Patrol:

I am writing seeking clarification of the New Hampshire laws pertaining to No Wake zones. I first started by researching the question, "what is a wake -- 4 inches, 6 inches, 8 inches?" But I then determined that New Hampshire law makes very clear that the speed allowed in a "No Wake" zone is headway speed...in other words headway speed and "no wake speed" are synonomous.

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-D
BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS
Section 270-D:1
270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

But believe it or not, I am seeking information on interpretation of the word "or" in the headway speed definition.

I can understand that for very large boats that cannot maintain steerage at less than 6 mph, they may have to travel at 7 or 8 mph to maintain steerage...but they should operate at the slowest speed above 6 mph that allows for steerage. (In other words, they select the second option: "slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.")

But the real question is what about tiny boats that can easily maintain steerage at extremely slow speeds? For example, a 12 foot jon boat with a motor on the back can maintain steerage at 1 mph. So in this case, is headway speed considered 1 mph (i.e. slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage"), or is headway speed considered any speed less than 6 mph? Based on the NH law, it appears that in the case of the jon boat, law abiding citizens may choose between the two options of :

6 miles per hour
OR
the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way

In other words, the jon boat can choose to travel at 6 mph (even if it creates a 4 inch "wake"). Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to address this question.

Sincerely,
Lake_Citizen

__________________________________________________ ______________

Sat, June 19, 2010 9:52:43 AM
Subject: Headway Speed/No Wake
From: "Dunleavy, Timothy"
To: lake_citizen

Lake Citizen,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Your research is accurate as to the definitions you cite. To clarify your question, I’ll offer you some history behind the law change that took effect in 1995. The “old” language stated, headway speed was the slowest speed that the boat could be operated and maintain steerage way, “but which does not exceed 6 miles per hour.”

In the early 1990’s Marine Patrol began patrolling our seacoast. It was recognized by our officers that the tidal currents in the state’s coastal rivers often exceeded 6 mph and therefore safe steerage for a vessel fighting the current would need to exceed the limits of the law.

As a result the law was changed to its current language. Local Judges have accepted and recognize the intent of the law and therefore the application of the “slowest speed necessary…” is the portion of the definition that our officers most often use in their application of the law.

To try and answer your question specifically as it applies to a 12’ jon boat (your example). The officer would look at several things when considering a boat stop for a violation. They would include the existing water conditions, the boat’s wake, how much faster than necessary they are travelling, is the attitude of the bow “lifting” vs. flat, speed and size of other vessels in the immediate area, etc. I believe that a common sense application of these concepts by any boat operator will keep them safe and legal.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at Marine Patrol Headquarters or by phone at the number listed below.

Safe Boating!!

Tim

Timothy C. Dunleavy
Lieutenant,
New Hampshire Marine Patrol
31 Dock Rd.
Gilford, NH 03249
Ph. 603-293-2037
Fax 603-293-0096

Bear Islander · 08-13-2014, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

So what am I suppose to do? I live in an area where I have a large no-wake zone when heading out of the basin. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't have a PWC because the wake at the slowest speed is to fast? Do not go there! I have been in the basin for over 60 years and I plan to continue to enjoy it. Also keep in mind- many people purchase property in a no-wake zone and then yell and complain to everyone. I have known several newbies that purchase a place in a no-wake zone and then sit there all day screaming at everyone.

There is a way to make your SeaDoo go slower in a now wake zone. If you pull the reverse lever back about half way the thrust will be pointed straight down and you will have no forward thrust. From that position you move the lever slightly to the forward setting and you will have a small amount of thrust and will be able to go as slow as you want.

ITD · 08-13-2014, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

There is a way to make your SeaDoo go slower in a now wake zone. If you pull the reverse lever back about half way the thrust will be pointed straight down and you will have no forward thrust. From that position you move the lever slightly to the forward setting and you will have a small amount of thrust and will be able to go as slow as you want.

Actually an easier way is to zig and zag. Turn the handlebars from stop to stop quickly enough so the pwc doesn't turn that much. You effectively cut the amount of thrust to move forward.. But I would be hard pressed to do this because some yahoos sitting on a proch think I am going too fast.........

jrc · 08-14-2014, 07:05 AM

Does anyone really think the intent of the No Wake laws was to restrict the speed of a jetski to below their normal idle speed? If an idling jetski causes too much disturbance to your shorefront, fix your shorefront.

SIKSUKR · 08-14-2014, 09:17 AM

I dont understand what the confusion is. Woodsy explained it very simply. As far as my PWC, when in line through the channel I frequently have to use my reverse to slow down so I'm not getting dirty looks for passing other boats. I do sometimes use my reverse 1/2 open like BR posted to slow.

08-12-2014, 03:26 PM	#6
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	NO Wake does not mean no wake! I really don't get why people do not understand this very simple, very clear rule. 270-D:1 Definitions VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way. VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed. The legal interpretation is VERY clear. You are allowed up to 6 MPH... regardless of the wake generated. The only reason you can exceed 6 MPH is to maintain steerage and control. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a moving boat to leave NO WAKE. Some people think no wake means DEAD SLOW.... It does not nor was it ever intended to. If that was the case NOBODY would get out of Paugus Bay on Labor Day weekend. I got pulled over once for NWZ violation.... I asked the officer what the issue was, he told me too fast in a NWZ... I indicated my GPS said otherwise. I was travelling at 5 MPH. I offered to demonstrate, he politely declined, and sent me on my way. If you need more than 6 MPH that you better have a good reason why... water currents, boat hull design etc etc... the 6 MPH was not a randomly chosen number. The NWZ should be relabeled to HEADWAY SPEED ONLY thus eliminating any confusion. Also note that the term "headway speed" is also used in several other RSA's Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-13-2014, 10:41 AM	#12
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Against the current is not an issue with maintaining steerage. Going with the current is when you may sometimes need to go close to 10 mph(relative to the land) to maintain steerage in a 5 mph current. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-13-2014, 03:10 PM	#14
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	depasseg, The law is actually very clearly written to allow variation and still have a set enforceable parameter. The set parameter is 6 MPH, you are not to exceed that unless deemed necessary (by you the captain) to maintain steerage. That's the variation. The burden of proof is on the MP below 6 MPH, the Burden of proof above 6 MPH is on you, the captain, to justify why you had to exceed 6 MPH. There is no need for Boolean logic. There are plenty of precedents in the courts. The NH Legislature recognized that different boats require different speeds to maintain steerage. They also recognized that requiring all boats to travel at the slowest possible speed of another craft was an undue burden. 6 MPH was the decided upon headway speed recommendation. This takes into account boat type, safety, boat traffic, currents, weather condition etc. Thus, you can actually get out of Paugus bay on a holiday weekend... Or up the Piscataqua River with an outgoing tide. The Weirs Channel is approx 3/4 of a mile long... not counting boats stacking up. At 3 MPH its a 15 minute transit time... at 6 MPH its a 7.5 minute transit time. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-13-2014, 05:55 PM	#15
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Only one interpretation makes sense I agree the law is poorly written.....but also agree with Woodsy. It makes no sense to make the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage the limit. I can reduce my speed to near zero and maintain steerage (such as when docking), so how could that possibly be the intent? Clearly the intent is 6 MPH speed limit and the MP needs to be re-educated.

08-13-2014, 08:39 AM	#19
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Tis, It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat moving forward NOT to leave a wake. A boat moving forward displaces water.. the water fills the void caused by the hull, creating a wake. Unless a boat is adrift and floating freely with the current, it is creating a wake. The height of the wake will vary with the type of hull, and the speed at which the hull goes thru the water. Because of the myriad of boat hull designs, there is no way to define what is acceptable wake height, and what is not. Every hull is different and creates a different wake and that wake all varies with the forward speed of the boat. The important clause here is "maintain steerage". Maintaining proper control of your boat is paramount and trumps ALL! Currents, boat traffic, wind & weather can all affect at what speed steerage can be maintained. For example, in the spring the Weirs Channel usually has a 5+ MPH current... to overcome that current you have to go a minimum of 7-11 MPH... guess what?? Your boat is making a pretty good wake! The 6 MPH speed is essentially the standard acceptable speed that is universally recognized as the maximum speed necessary to maintain steerage for 98% of the recreational boats. Why 6 MPH and not 5 MPH? No idea! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-11-2014, 12:08 PM	#2
Greene's Basin Girl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 1,515 Thanks: 394 Thanked 527 Times in 269 Posts	The seventh edition of the " Boater's Guide of New Hampshire ( A Handbook of Boating Laws and Responsibilities) states the following:Unsafe Passage Operating a vessel at greater than headway speed if within 150 feet of: - Swimmers In the water - Other vessels - Rafts or Floats - Permitted swimming areas - Docks or mooring fields - The shoreline -Operating a vessel at greater than headway speed while passing under a bridge - Overtaking another vessel at a distance and speed such that your sake causes danger or damage

08-12-2014, 12:07 PM	#3
The Real BigGuy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,332 Thanks: 128 Thanked 478 Times in 293 Posts	The problem with the no-wake issue is people don't usually look behind themselves to see what they are creating. (No offense meant but jetski's are some of the worst.) I don't believe that most people are intentionally malicious but, having lived in the Hole in the Wall no-wake for almost 20 years it doe get to the point where you have just had enough. You see you boat get banged around so many times that you have to get it out and you yell or whatever. And then we get back to what is a no-wake? Headway or 6 mph. We don't want to go there. I remember coming out of the Weirs channel 25 years or so ago and getting yelled at by MP for a wake. "I'm not making a wake." I said. "Look behind you. Do you see white? That's a wake!" More people need to look behind them. No reason everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake all of time.

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08-13-2014, 07:33 AM	#8
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,946 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,493 Times in 1,040 Posts	Obviously there is a big problem with this law. The way it is written it does sound like you can make a wake as long as you are doing the 6mph. However, MP is not usually going to agree with you. A wake is a wake.

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08-13-2014, 07:07 PM	#16
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,946 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,493 Times in 1,040 Posts	If the law was meant to be headway speed why don't they use headway speed signs like they used to. Sorry, I don't think headway speed and no wake are the same thing and I don't think when you see a No Wake sign that the intention is to allow one to go headway speed no matter how much wake you are making. If the law was properly written we obviously would not have differing opinions on this.

08-13-2014, 09:07 AM	#21
cillovely Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 106 Thanks: 17 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	I stayed in Center Harbor for the first time this past summer. I was very surprised there isn't any sort of no-wake zone as you get closer to the docks they way they have it in Meredith Bay and Alton Bay. All sorts of craft come barrel a$$-ing thru there full bore. I didn't really care other than the times when I'd be trying to dock my boat and the waves would be crashing making things tricky. I just thought it was odd. I know on the Charles River there were many a kayaker and row-boater that would do the slow down wave in certain zones, but as it's been stated 6mph is no-wake, anything less it does get harder to maintain control and if I do make a little wave there isn't much I can do.

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08-13-2014, 09:52 AM	#24
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	TiltonBB & ITD... Agreed! Its the old Air Speed vs Ground speed. LOL! I was just trying to keep it simple... you need to increase your power to overcome the current.. so if the current is at 5 MPH and you are stationary, you are creating the same wake as you would @ 5 MPH in a no current or wind sea state. Being stationary in a current of 5MPH your boat speedo will usually read 5 MPH even though you are not moving forward. Your GPS will read 0 MPH. When you move forward through the current at 5 MPH... your boat speedo will read 10 MPH and your GPS will read 5 MPH. However, you will be creating a 10 MPH wake and the engine power will be the equivalent of 10 MPH in a no current or wind sea state. I totally understand it... I just didn't explain it fully! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

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08-12-2014, 04:05 PM	#25
Grove84 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 90 Thanks: 26 Thanked 41 Times in 20 Posts	No Wake Zones Out enjoying the lake Saturday evening , coming through the no wake zone between Governors and Eagle Island, while in the no wake zone, a new Mastercraft comes through the no wake still on plane. So hit the airhorn along with the boat behind me and inform the mastercraft "It's a no Wake Zone". No response , just kept on going, but the MP's were in the right place at the right time and pulled them over. I was once a first time boater and made my share of mistakes and learned along the years to respect the others around me and the 150' rule. I have to admit that having been on the lake 15+ years now , this summer has been won of the toughest for rules of the road violations. But any day on the lake , beats a day at work

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08-13-2014, 11:32 AM	#27
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Correctamundo! Woodsy nails it on all four latest posts.

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08-13-2014, 11:41 AM	#28
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	We seem to have the subject a lot. Just remember if the MP pulls you over to discuss your wake, be nice. Once he gives you a ticket, now the burden is on you to fight it. The process is the punishment. Even if you win, you lost your time. Also remember that these laws were written before GPS, no one really had accurate speed measurement at 6 MPH. So the MP use the white water as their visual clue. The number one reason for No Wake Zones is safety, if I'm driving my boat safely, I don't care what people yell from shore. Safety means ability to control my boat and that my wake doesn't damage or injure people on other boats.

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08-13-2014, 01:11 PM	#29
Rusty Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,028 Thanks: 603 Thanked 687 Times in 425 Posts	I think what was left out of the boater certification process was that nobody had to take a class or learn from an experienced boater how to improve boat handling skills. I wonder how many boaters know how to properly use the trim and throttle to reduce a wake? __________________ It's never crowded along the extra mile.

08-14-2014, 09:21 AM	#31
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	The difference between the two.... Headway speed is REQUIRED in numerous SITUATIONS... within 150' of shore, other boats, docks, people, etc... No Wake Zones are designated AREAS where headway speed is required but would not normally be required. Weirs Channel, Bridges, Bear Island, Meredith Bay, Between Governors & Eagle Is. Hole in the Wall etc... The No Wake Zones have many uses... safety, traffic control, shoreline protection, political... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-14-2014, 09:33 AM	#32
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	You're right, I should have said "supposed to be safety". As in any government endeavor, the intent of a law is not always the result.

08-14-2014, 09:58 AM	#33
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,256 Thanks: 75 Thanked 348 Times in 237 Posts	Here's a puzzle for you captain batman: You're headed into Paugus Bay, while going under the Weir's bridge, you throttle is at it's minimum possible, your GPS indicates a speed of 8 MPH. You have no problems steering and controlling your boat. Are you 'legal'? Later in the day you're headed out of Paugus bay, while going under the same bridge, but you are not making any headway. The bridge is over your head but doesn't appear to be moving. So you add some throttle. Your GPS indicates a speed of 3 MPH, you can just barely maintain your heading, but your tach is showing a much higher engine speed than you would normally run to avoid a wake. Are you legal? Some data if you need it (pick any day): __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com Get a backup/duplicate RF DESS Key for your SeaDoo, CanAm or SkiDoo RideKey.app

08-14-2014, 10:35 AM	#35
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,256 Thanks: 75 Thanked 348 Times in 237 Posts	It isn't so hard to understand. Actually it's quite simple. Some may not realize that you can't simply glance at your GPS to say that you're 'legal'. There are some places on the lake where there can be a significant current which can affect your boat. In the first example, the current could be going 5 MPH or so, and your GPS could be indicating ground speed, not over the water speed. Which would the MP use (if the headway/steerage requirement was not in play)? __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com Get a backup/duplicate RF DESS Key for your SeaDoo, CanAm or SkiDoo RideKey.app

08-14-2014, 10:48 AM	#36
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Rich... Its pretty clear cut to me.... and I am guessing you too! Thus the wording in the RSA "or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way" If you are in a current moving at 5 MPH, and you are going an extra 3 MPH to maintain steerage... (you need to maintain control of the boat and not let the current push you sideways or into the middle of the channel) the MP are NOT going to bust on you. In fact sometimes in the spring & fall when they have the Lakeport Dam wide open to drain the lake, that is precisely what happens. You could probably even successfully argue 11 MPH total. 5 MPH for the current and the 6 MPH you are allowed under the law.... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-14-2014, 11:06 AM	#37
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,256 Thanks: 75 Thanked 348 Times in 237 Posts	Woodsy, Yes, it's very clear to me also! But I can't tell you how many times I've been in that channel and had to try to encourage people to move along. To me, this means that most people are trying hard to comply with the 'no wake zones', but almost to the point of being dangerous to others! Small boats and jet skis may not feel it as bad as larger boats. But if you have a 38 foot boat (12.5 ft beam) that has over 16,000 lbs of weight (think: inertia), you sure need to maintain headway! I've often thought I need a bull horn instead of a horn to warn others, but that may not help much either! __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com Get a backup/duplicate RF DESS Key for your SeaDoo, CanAm or SkiDoo RideKey.app

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08-14-2014, 02:32 PM	#38
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,598 Thanks: 1,418 Thanked 1,705 Times in 1,109 Posts	For the 38 footer As you know, most small boat owners (not Forum members, of course) don't realize the size and thrust of your props, even at less than 500 rpm. They certainly don't think about speed as much as they concentrate on "No Wake". 1. "No wake zone" doesn't mean "No Passing Zone". If there's room... 2. In the Weirs Channel, just keep going at your slowest steerage speed. Don't blow your horn until your bow pulpit/anchor is just about even with the transom of the boat that is going too slow. They'll add a little more throttle. 3. Send somebody up to the bow to speak, not shout, with the offender and tell them you can't go any slower, safely. I've seen these methods used with great effect. The Weirs Channel is a difficult example for logic, when many people are there to "Cruise Main Street" not to transit to/from Paugus Bay. There used to be explanatory signs by the bridge and at the south end of the Weirs Channel explaining that it should take 5 minutes from that point to the equivalent sign at the other end. The signs are long gone, but in my mind, if I were going slow enough to read the sign out loud, my speed was about right. No speedo, no GPS in those days. When I did get a boat with a speedo, it didn't register until about 10 kts.

08-14-2014, 04:51 PM	#39
GodSmile Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 192 Thanks: 94 Thanked 58 Times in 38 Posts	Common Sense Seems to me that if one stops to think about the intent of the rule, and not the lawyer wordsmith weasel words.... and respects others.... boaters, and people with shore property... seems to me all would be well. I've witnessed idiots on boats and land.... I must be in the minority.... I err on the side of the other person's rights. Seems to keep me out of trouble, although I will admit to being more than a little peeved at what I see at times.

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08-14-2014, 05:31 PM	#40
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,936 Thanks: 452 Thanked 603 Times in 340 Posts	Lets get simple here...... The law is the law and you can interpret it or have it interpreted for you by an attorney. But the sad fact remains, I have never ( not once) ever been successful explaining in a calm & professional manner to a MP ( or land LEO) that he is sadly mistaken in his interpretation of the regulation and why he pulled me over and should go back to training class ! I STILL get the citation-- (for which I am Pissed cuz I know I'm right)-- and an invitation to pay the fine or to challenge it in a court of their choice in the middle of the week ! Which is awesome seeing as I travel close to 40 weeks a year and Live 2-1/2 hours away from the lake. All this discussion is mute ! Just Sayin : . __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

08-14-2014, 06:59 PM	#41
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,946 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,493 Times in 1,040 Posts	Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes 07-06-2010, 04:44 PM #1 Glove Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 18 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts Clarification on "No Wake" rules I am posting an email sent to Marine Patrol seeking clarification on rules governing speed in "No Wake" zones, followed by the reply from Lieutenant Timothy Dunleavy. (He has provided his consent to reproduction of the email trail in this forum.) I found Lt. Dunleavy's reply to be both interesting and informative. Glove __________________________________________________ ______________ Thu, June 17, 2010 9:19:47 AM Subject: Clarification on "no wake rules" From: Lake Citizen To: [email protected] Dear Marine Patrol: I am writing seeking clarification of the New Hampshire laws pertaining to No Wake zones. I first started by researching the question, "what is a wake -- 4 inches, 6 inches, 8 inches?" But I then determined that New Hampshire law makes very clear that the speed allowed in a "No Wake" zone is headway speed...in other words headway speed and "no wake speed" are synonomous. TITLE XXII NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY CHAPTER 270-D BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS Section 270-D:1 270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter: VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way. VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed. But believe it or not, I am seeking information on interpretation of the word "or" in the headway speed definition. I can understand that for very large boats that cannot maintain steerage at less than 6 mph, they may have to travel at 7 or 8 mph to maintain steerage...but they should operate at the slowest speed above 6 mph that allows for steerage. (In other words, they select the second option: "slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.") But the real question is what about tiny boats that can easily maintain steerage at extremely slow speeds? For example, a 12 foot jon boat with a motor on the back can maintain steerage at 1 mph. So in this case, is headway speed considered 1 mph (i.e. slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage"), or is headway speed considered any speed less than 6 mph? Based on the NH law, it appears that in the case of the jon boat, law abiding citizens may choose between the two options of : 6 miles per hour OR the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way In other words, the jon boat can choose to travel at 6 mph (even if it creates a 4 inch "wake"). Is this correct? Thank you in advance for taking the time to address this question. Sincerely, Lake_Citizen __________________________________________________ ______________ Sat, June 19, 2010 9:52:43 AM Subject: Headway Speed/No Wake From: "Dunleavy, Timothy" To: lake_citizen Lake Citizen, Thank you for your inquiry. Your research is accurate as to the definitions you cite. To clarify your question, I’ll offer you some history behind the law change that took effect in 1995. The “old” language stated, headway speed was the slowest speed that the boat could be operated and maintain steerage way, “but which does not exceed 6 miles per hour.” In the early 1990’s Marine Patrol began patrolling our seacoast. It was recognized by our officers that the tidal currents in the state’s coastal rivers often exceeded 6 mph and therefore safe steerage for a vessel fighting the current would need to exceed the limits of the law. As a result the law was changed to its current language. Local Judges have accepted and recognize the intent of the law and therefore the application of the “slowest speed necessary…” is the portion of the definition that our officers most often use in their application of the law. To try and answer your question specifically as it applies to a 12’ jon boat (your example). The officer would look at several things when considering a boat stop for a violation. They would include the existing water conditions, the boat’s wake, how much faster than necessary they are travelling, is the attitude of the bow “lifting” vs. flat, speed and size of other vessels in the immediate area, etc. I believe that a common sense application of these concepts by any boat operator will keep them safe and legal. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at Marine Patrol Headquarters or by phone at the number listed below. Safe Boating!! Tim Timothy C. Dunleavy Lieutenant, New Hampshire Marine Patrol 31 Dock Rd. Gilford, NH 03249 Ph. 603-293-2037 Fax 603-293-0096

08-14-2014, 07:05 AM	#44
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Does anyone really think the intent of the No Wake laws was to restrict the speed of a jetski to below their normal idle speed? If an idling jetski causes too much disturbance to your shorefront, fix your shorefront.