Ice Airport 2014

[8gv]

I wonder, if the ice was really slick, could you hold the crab through touch down and kick it out as you start to feel the side load on the gear?

We need a volunteer...

[camp guy]

I know nothing about private flying, but, can a runway be treated with a light coating of plain sand?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by camp guy

I know nothing about private flying, but, can a runway be treated with a light coating of plain sand?

Number one in this case, you are adding sand to the lake.

Number 2, the prop wash would cause that sand to act like a sand blaster, taking off paint.

Number 3, the sand could get into moving parts like the aerilons, elevator, gear on retractable gear aircraft, brakes, etc. . Not such a great idea.

Probably other reasons, but essentially, it is the same reason that "regular" airports do not put anything on their runways either.

[NoBozo]

NO local airports put down anything for ice ....because of the SALT. Salt and Aluminum..with rivets in the airplane..and crevices between the layers of aluminum...and the rivet holes..NOT GOOD.

Alton is a Special Case: The Alton runway is a specific DIRECTION that you are Confined to land on...AND there are hills and trees on both sides which will cause wind turbulence.

I have landed on ice in a Citabria (Tail Dragger) on a large lake. I landed directly into the wind. I was not confined to a specific RUNWAY direction. Also: the ice was Snow Ice...Later in the season..not Glare ice...maybe a little more traction.... NB

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

NO local airports put down anything for ice ....because of the SALT. Salt and Aluminum..with rivets in the airplane..and crevices between the layers of aluminum...and the rivet holes..NOT GOOD.

Alton is a Special Case: The Alton runway is a specific DIRECTION that you are Confined to land on...AND there are hills and trees on both sides which will cause wind turbulence.

I have landed on ice in a Citabria (Tail Dragger) on a large lake. I landed directly into the wind. I was not confined to a specific RUNWAY direction. Also: the ice was Snow Ice...Later in the season..not Glare ice...maybe a little more traction.... NB

I have seen a few planes land on rwy 19, that is landing towards Gillen Marine. Only problem coming in that way is the terrain just west of Rte 28A.

Taking off on rwy 19, well that is another story. If the winds are that strong to warrant a south takeoff direction, probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

The advantage of landing on an open lake, vs a specific ice runway airport is exactly that. You can often times land directly into the wind. Bush pilots in Alaska will make every effort to land into the wind, regardless of whether they are landing on water, snow, tundra, or a river bank. The latter is a tough choice sometimes.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I have seen a few planes land on rwy 19, that is landing towards Gillen Marine. Only problem coming in that way is the terrain just west of Rte 28A.

Taking off on rwy 19, well that is another story. If the winds are that strong to warrant a south takeoff direction, probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

The advantage of landing on an open lake, vs a specific ice runway airport is exactly that. You can often times land directly into the wind. Bush pilots in Alaska will make every effort to land into the wind, regardless of whether they are landing on water, snow, tundra, or a river bank. The latter is a tough choice sometimes.

QUESTION:::: I would like to know who is correct. I purchased a hat from Brian at Busy Corners last year towards donation to the guys who maintain the runway and it states runway B18 Ice Runway Alton Bay, NH. Is it correct or the one listed above correct. Just yanking ya as I believe the hat is correct and us senior citizens do make mistakes far and between.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by RLW

QUESTION:::: I would like to know who is correct. I purchased a hat from Brian at Busy Corners last year towards donation to the guys who maintain the runway and it states runway B18 Ice Runway Alton Bay, NH. Is it correct or the one listed above correct. Just yanking ya as I believe the hat is correct and us senior citizens do make mistakes far and between.

See the NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) in post #26. The "Airport" designator is KB18, shortened to B18 in the text of the NOTAM. The "runway direction" is designated as 1/19. Meaning either an aircraft heading of 10 degrees with northerly wind or a heading of 190 degrees with a southerly wind.

So the hat is correct and upthesauke is also correct.

[RLW]

Ok Slickcraft, now you brought the subject up again and the fun needs to continue. If one were to look up the runway in Alton Bay, which number would you look for. The runway number B18 or the wind direction number 1/19. Couldn't the 1/19 pertain to any airport that has the same conditions as Alton, but there is only 1 B18 runway???? Dam, I haven't a clue to what the heck I'm saying, but it makes sense to me..

[upthesaukee]

The Airport Identifier for the Alton Ice Airport is B18, or KB18. It has two runways, runway 1 and runway 19. Runway 1 is the runway that heads out the bay, and runway 19 is the runway that heads from the bay to Gillen Marine.

Using Laconia airport as an example of another airport. It's identifier is LCI, or KLCI. Its runways are runway 8, which runs from Lily Pond to Patricks, and runway 24, which runs from Patricks to Lily pond.

The identifier only identifies the airport itself, B18 for Alton ice runway, LCI for Laconia, MHT for Manchester-Boston Regional, PSM for Pease, etc..

The runways at each airport will be reciprocal number, 180 degrees different for each runway. Manchester, for instance, had multiple runways, as does Logan airport in Boston, to accommodate the airplanes as much as possible to land and depart into the wind.

The runways for airports are designated by the magnetic heading of the runway, taking the magnetic deviation into consideration. When I worked down in Louisiana, we had 3 airports that were no more than 9 miles apart, and all three had runways 14/32. If we were helping an aircraft to an airport, we would tell him to fly a particular heading for "vectors to runway 14 at Downtown airport", or to Shreveport Regional airport, or to Barksdale AFB.

By the way, the K prefix indicates that the airport is a US airport. The identifier for Alton is B18, but to further delineate it, it can also be shown as KB18, Alton airport in the USA. Hope that helps.

[8gv]

There are many US airports that don't have the "K".
Examples include:
2B2...Plum Island (Newburyport MA)
7B9...Ellington CT
0B5...Turners Falls MA
and...
B18...Alton Bay Ice

Why no "K"?

If there is no weather broadcast via a radio frequency from the airport there is no K.

K?

This is but a piece of the ICAO airport identifier protocol. I believe that weather reporting is required (among other things) to conform to ICAO. The K means it conforms and thus has the weather reporting.

I reserve the right to be wrong though...

[upthesaukee]

thanks 8GV.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by 8gv

There are many US airports that don't have the "K".
Examples include:
2B2...Plum Island (Newburyport MA)
7B9...Ellington CT
0B5...Turners Falls MA
and...
B18...Alton Bay Ice

Why no "K"?

If there is no weather broadcast via a radio frequency from the airport there is no K.

K?

This is but a piece of the ICAO airport identifier protocol. I believe that weather reporting is required (among other things) to conform to ICAO. The K means it conforms and thus has the weather reporting.

I reserve the right to be wrong though...

HMMMM, so there is weather broadcast from KB18? therefore it gets the "K" designation?

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

HMMMM, so there is weather broadcast from KB18? therefore it gets the "K" designation?

I think that 8gv is correct and that the designation should be just B18. In past yeas some pilots have referred to KB18 so I used that to look up the NOTAM and the FAA site did recognize the K. Entering just B18 also gets the correct airport.

Searching for why the K, there is conflicting discussion on many flying forums. It does look like the K is only used for US domestic airports. Some say that this is the only meaning. Others say the airport must be US and have a weather broadcast. In any case, the orientation designators like 1/19 indicate the magnetic heading of the runway(s) with the zeros omitted.

[rdant]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Why no "K"?

I reserve the right to be wrong though...

The "K" refers to the ICAO code for continental "USA".

Airports ID's with numbers in them do not normally have the "K", because the number format is not ICAO standard. It does not have directly to do with weather.

And in this case, B18 really refers to the Seaplane Base at Alton Bay, but of course, we use it for the ICE, too.

I am proud to say that I have landed at Alton Bay on both the water and the ice.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by rdant

The "K" refers to the ICAO code for continental "USA".

Airports ID's with numbers in them do not normally have the "K", because the number format is not ICAO standard. It does not have directly to do with weather.

And in this case, B18 really refers to the Seaplane Base at Alton Bay, but of course, we use it for the ICE, too.

I am proud to say that I have landed at Alton Bay on both the water and the ice.

Agreed. The K is about ICAO. Numbers in the identifier indicate non with ICAO. No weather, no conformance, no K. The lack of weather reporting may not be the only reason the airport is not ICAO but you'll not find an ICAO (K) without weather. I believe that there are likely no "numbered" airports with weather.

I'd like to read the AFD cover to cover to prove (or disprove) my hypothesis but alas, I have to paint my son's bedroom...

[chipj29]

Any ideas on how much airplane activity there will be on the Saturday before the Alton Carnival? My son is an airplane-junkie, so I want to get him there to watch some take-offs and landings, but he works on Sundays (at the Concord Airport).

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Any ideas on how much airplane activity there will be on the Saturday before the Alton Carnival? My son is an airplane-junkie, so I want to get him there to watch some take-offs and landings, but he works on Sundays (at the Concord Airport).

Assuming good flying weather, favorable winds, and a surface that does not get damaged by weather or humans over the next two weeks, expect a fair amount of activity each day on the weekend, perhaps more on Sunday than Saturday, but still a good amount of traffic.

Should be enough planes on the ground at a time, that your son would be able to meet and greet with the pilots. Most seem to be more than happy to tell you about landing here in Alton.

[LakeSnake]

Just counted 23 planes and one heilo one ice. A busy day so far.

[riverat]

It was a great day to be on the bay today, finally was able to get out for a few hours today and there were dozens of aircraft from helicopters to ultra lights landing and taking off pretty much non-stop from 10am till 2 pm when I left. Stop in and say Hi if you see me out there.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by LakeSnake

Just counted 23 planes and one heilo one ice. A busy day so far.

(L to R) Cessna "Bird Dog" (Ex military: Many of them built under license in Japan, during the Vietnam Era), Piper Cherokee 140, Cessna 177 "Cardinal", Cessna 150/152. NB

EDIT: looking further at that "Cardinal"..No Wheel Pants..I'm going to guess it's an "RG".. (Retractable Landing Gear). Watching the gear retract on takeoff in that plane IS....Different..

[dogma]

I am coming in from California the weekend of Winter Carnival for my own winter vacation. Born a long time ago, in Laconia and have not been back for winter in way too long. I am looking forward to seeing planes come and go and visiting RiverRat at his bob house.