divers flag

Islander · 08-08-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Islander, I remember when Governor Romney put out swim lines 2 years ago & some neighbors kayaked inside the swim line & some fishermen fished inside the swim line. When he complained I recall that it was stated on this website that they did nothing illegal. Maybe discourtious but not illegal.

As I remember it, the Massachusetts State Police detail guarding the Govenor put out those lines without a permit. That is why a boat could legally enter the area.

Below is a copy of the swim line rules. Boats are not allowed in swim areas. They also require that only the shore front property owner can obtain a permit. This shows the property owner has rights to the lake that others do not have.
________________________

Saf-C 404.08 Swim Lines.

(a) No person shall operate a boat within any permitted swim line on any public body of water.

(b) No person shall put or place a swim line in the public waters of any public body of water without prior written approval of the director.

(c) An application for a swim line permit, DSSS 41, shall be submitted to the director by the shore front property owner, or a duly authorized agent.

Orion · 08-08-2005, 08:45 PM

How does one know what is a permitted swim line and what is just a line of of floats placed by a property owner to keep boats further out? There are a lot of random floats placed at many properties around the lake. Do they have some sort of sticker like a permitted mooring ball?

Kamper · 08-09-2005, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

How does one know what is a permitted swim line... Do they have some sort of sticker like a permitted mooring ball?

Just like mooring balls and docks, they need a permit from the town. If you want to know if there is a permit you can go to the town hall and ask. You will probably need the name of the land owner but the clerk may be able to figure it out from the maps. I'm pretty sure stickers are not required for float lines, where would they go?

For safety and courtesy I prefer to stay well out from shore whenever I am above head-way speed. There really are relativly few places on the lake where swim lines, docks and mooring balls will cause any great restriction of boating activities that would not be required by other considerations. (IMO)

PROPELLER · 08-09-2005, 08:10 AM

Islander, is a kayak a boat under that law? kayaks do not require registration & therefore maybe exempt from that law. Maybe Skip can comment on that. As far as the fishermen, they were not operating their boat within the swimline just casting their line within the swimlines.

SIKSUKR · 08-09-2005, 09:13 AM

While I appreciate your honesty BI,I think it was a little disengenuous to post a picture of your own boat with a caption"do you think these boats are 150 ft from shore?".Also,all I ride is a PWC and I can tell you that at 20 mph it is up on plane.That Pwc is going more than headway but is probably doing 10 mph.I still don't doubt you have an issue with boats too close to shore but you lose a little punch in your point by doing this.Good luck warding off those offenders cuz we all know there is lot of them out there.

Bear Islander · 08-09-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Islander, is a kayak a boat under that law? kayaks do not require registration & therefore maybe exempt from that law. Maybe Skip can comment on that. As far as the fishermen, they were not operating their boat within the swimline just casting their line within the swimlines.

Seems that just about anything is a "boat". However there is nothing to say that a swimmer could not cross into the swim area, or even stay all day.

270:48 Definitions. – In this subdivision:
II. "Boat" means and includes every type of watercraft used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on the water.

SIKSUKR

I'm sorry that you think me disingenuous, perhaps you are taking what goes on here more seriously than I am. I will try to be more specific in the future.

Skip · 08-09-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Islander, is a kayak a boat under that law? kayaks do not require registration & therefore maybe exempt from that law. Maybe Skip can comment on that. As far as the fishermen, they were not operating their boat within the swimline just casting their line within the swimlines.

Some points of clarification.....

Yes, a kayak is considered a "boat". You cannot operate a "boat" within a state permitted swimline. I think it was Kamper who stated you could operate a power boat within to "launch and recover". That is not correct, there is no exception. Also Kamper stated to check with the Town on swim lines. Again, that is not correct, swimlines are granted solely at the discretion of the Director of the Division of Safety Services or his designee.

Here are some pertinent regulations:

Saf-C 404.08 Swim Lines.
(a) No person shall operate a boat within any permitted swim line on any public body of water.
(b) No person shall put or place a swim line in the public waters of any public body of water without prior written approval of the director.

A final note on waterfront "rights".

As pointed out by others, these are not absolute rights. The water in Winnipesaukee is controlled solely at the discretion of the State and its authorized agencies (and the Towns abutting the Lake, at the permission of the State).

The Lake is owned by the public. No abutter can refuse use of the Lake adjacent to their property by any other member of the public. As correctly pointed out, a property owner can erect a swimline, boathouse, mooring, dock or swim raft if he meets the criteria designated by the governing Town fathers and gets the appropriate permission to encroach on the Lake from the designated State agency. However, the waters around and underneath any government granted structure is still for public use. Outside of the well discussed restrictions on boating within certain areas, a member of the public has full right to individually occupy any of this State owned and controlled public body of water.....

And now, for my final two cents on this particular thread.....

Its unfortunate that a minority of the public refuses to use any common sense or acceptable standards of decency when utilizing their rights to the Lake, but such is life in a free society such as ours. As many others have pointed out before me...you cannot legislate common sense.

And yes, life is too short to continually dwell on the negative aspects of the Lake when there is so much more good to be enjoyed. Thankfully of the many thousands of individuals who own recreate and live at work at the Lake, and the hundreds of individuals that regularly visit the Lake through Don's kindness, only a handful continually carp about the negative aspects they feel surround this beautiful community.

It appears that the vast majority are ever thankful that they get to enjoy Winnipesaukee in one form or another.

And in my book, that's the way it ought to be....

Skip

SIKSUKR · 08-09-2005, 03:16 PM

HEAR HEAR Skip!!Well said.

Silver Duck · 08-09-2005, 07:08 PM

Just as a point of information, both of the offending dive flags were gone this past weekend. Who knows, maybe the people that put them out read this thread!

And, for the property owners that have contributed to this thread: if the boneheads are truly endangering people that are swimming off your property

, for Heavens's sake please do put out a swim line! Don't wait! We don't need another tragedy on the lake!

Silver Duck

ApS · 08-10-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

As I remember it, the Massachusetts State Police detail guarding the Govenor put out those lines without a permit. That is why a boat could legally enter the area.

Below is a copy of the swim line rules. Boats are not allowed in swim areas. They also require that only the shore front property owner can obtain a permit. This shows the property owner has rights to the lake that others do not have.
________________________

Saf-C 404.08 Swim Lines.

(a) No person shall operate a boat within any permitted swim line on any public body of water.

(b) No person shall put or place a swim line in the public waters of any public body of water without prior written approval of the director.

(c) An application for a swim line permit, DSSS 41, shall be submitted to the director by the shore front property owner, or a duly authorized agent.

My recollection is that the "swim line" was a series of anchored, non-connected, floats.

You could slalom a canoe or bass boat through them, and not technically "cross" any line.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=65395

How this enhanced Romney's enjoyment of the lake, I don't know.

It seems like a simple courtesy would have been extended by the State of New Hampshire to the visiting Governor back then, and negative (or just wrong) comments left off...today.

08-08-2005, 08:45 PM	#2
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	question How does one know what is a permitted swim line and what is just a line of of floats placed by a property owner to keep boats further out? There are a lot of random floats placed at many properties around the lake. Do they have some sort of sticker like a permitted mooring ball?

08-09-2005, 09:13 AM	#5
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	While I appreciate your honesty BI,I think it was a little disengenuous to post a picture of your own boat with a caption"do you think these boats are 150 ft from shore?".Also,all I ride is a PWC and I can tell you that at 20 mph it is up on plane.That Pwc is going more than headway but is probably doing 10 mph.I still don't doubt you have an issue with boats too close to shore but you lose a little punch in your point by doing this.Good luck warding off those offenders cuz we all know there is lot of them out there. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-09-2005, 03:16 PM	#8
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	HEAR HEAR Skip!!Well said. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-09-2005, 07:08 PM	#9
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Back to the original subject Just as a point of information, both of the offending dive flags were gone this past weekend. Who knows, maybe the people that put them out read this thread! And, for the property owners that have contributed to this thread: if the boneheads are truly endangering people that are swimming off your property , for Heavens's sake please do put out a swim line! Don't wait! We don't need another tragedy on the lake! Silver Duck

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08-09-2005, 08:10 AM	#4
PROPELLER Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 340 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Islander, is a kayak a boat under that law? kayaks do not require registration & therefore maybe exempt from that law. Maybe Skip can comment on that. As far as the fishermen, they were not operating their boat within the swimline just casting their line within the swimlines.