Backup Generators

[Mirror Lake's BB]

Originally Posted by gslpro

Geez, there are a lot of opinionated people on this subject. NOBOZO, all you had to do is if your furnace doesn't work using that plug, you need to find an outlet that isn't powered up, and plug into that one to hit that side of the circuit. When you look at your circuit breaker panel. Row one would be side 1 of the line. Row two would be side 2. Row three would be side 1. Row four side 2. on and on. Each row(or side) is 110v. Your 220 breakers take up two rows. 110+110=220v. If you kill the main breaker, no chance of back feeding. My simple fix was that I had one outlet right next to the box. I wired in another next to that, on the next row or breakers. Now, I turn off the main breaker, and I turn off my 220v breakers. I then start my generator, plug the two outlets into the two outputs from the generator, and viola, I am in business throughout the whole house. My furnace runs fine, and my fridge, and deep freezer are on, and I can watch TV as well. When the fridge or furnace kicks on, it revs up the honda, but has no problem in keeping it all going.
The Honda 3000 is ultra quiet, and gives you an additional 1000 watts of power over the 2000. I wouldn't mind picking one up. The fuel usage is also a huge difference between the hondas and the big-framed units. I use 1-2 gallons to get 16 hours, vs. most generators that I have seen run 7-8 gallons for the same time. Figure that out for a long-duration event.

Your description is confusing for those of us that know how a panel is laid out. Probably a foreign language for those that do not ("Row one would be side 1 of the line. Row two would be side 2. Row three would be side 1. Row four side 2. on and on. Each row(or side) is 110v. Your 220 breakers take up two rows." Huh??).

For simplicity, a row is horizontal and a column is vertical. The typical panel has two 110 v feeds; say Leg A and Leg B. Your Breaker "Space" Nos 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, ... (as numbered/stamped on your panel) are fed by Leg A, B, B, A, A, B, B, A, ... So looking at the left side (column) of breaker spaces going top to bottom would be fed by Leg A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B, ...and the right side (column) of breaker spaces going top to bottom would be fed by Leg B, A, B, A, B, A, B, A, ... Basically, no adjacent breaker spaces (L/R, above/below) are fed from different legs. As can be seen, a 220 v breaker takes up two above/below spaces.

I'm just trying to clarify what gslpro is trying to describe. I'm fine with his discussion. Since I have a 220 v table saw in my shop, I just back feed my panel using that receptacle using a 220 v "widowmaker". My wires are sized such that my table saw breaker will adequately protect them. Something to consider if you're feeding through a 20 A 110 v breaker with a cord capable of only delivering 15 A, unless the generator has 15 A overload protection. If this is difficult to follow this, I suggest that you shouldn't be back feeding.

As RLW posted earlier, this link is innformative regarding backup generators:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ght=generators

Good luck.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Mirror Lake's BB

Your description is confusing for those of us that know how a panel is laid out. Probably a foreign language for those that do not ("Row one would be side 1 of the line. Row two would be side 2. Row three would be side 1. Row four side 2. on and on. Each row(or side) is 110v. Your 220 breakers take up two rows." Huh??).

For simplicity, a row is horizontal and a column is vertical. The typical panel has two 110 v feeds; say Leg A and Leg B. Your Breaker "Space" Nos 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, ... (as numbered/stamped on your panel) are fed by Leg A, B, B, A, A, B, B, A, ... So looking at the left side (column) of breaker spaces going top to bottom would be fed by Leg A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B, ...and the right side (column) of breaker spaces going top to bottom would be fed by Leg B, A, B, A, B, A, B, A, ... Basically, no adjacent breaker spaces (L/R, above/below) are fed from different legs. As can be seen, a 220 v breaker takes up two above/below spaces.

I'm just trying to clarify what gslpro is trying to describe. I'm fine with his discussion. Since I have a 220 v table saw in my shop, I just back feed my panel using that receptacle using a 220 v "widowmaker". My wires are sized such that my table saw breaker will adequately protect them. Something to consider if you're feeding through a 20 A 110 v breaker with a cord capable of only delivering 15 A, unless the generator has 15 A overload protection. If this is difficult to follow this, I suggest that you shouldn't be back feeding.

As RLW posted earlier, this link is innformative regarding backup generators:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ght=generators

Good luck.

Your explanation of how Line A and Line B feed the rows of circuits is not correct.

gslpro was right when he said row one is fed by line 1, and row two is fed by line 2 etc.

I recommend you shouldn't do any work on your electrical panel until you understand how it is hooked up.

[AmantiDelLago]

Rusty, Mirror Lakes is correct. On one side of a panel every other breaker is fed by the same line. That is how you are able feed a 240 volt circuit on one side of the panel.

[ITD]

In this case a picture is worth a thousand rules, but I didn't even bother looking for one because the 100kb limit tucks it to me every time.....

[NoBozo]

Thanks guys for your input. My atitude is: You have ONE chance to get it Wrong. If you pick the wrong chance..YOU May be dead. I have done my own wireing in the house over 34 years...BUT This situation is different.

What you all are describing is Above my paygrade. AND I no longer trust contractors...what else is new...NB

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

What you all are describing is Above my paygrade. AND I no longer trust contractors...what else is new...NB

Generators are also discussed here:
http://winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14574

Still another way derives from a two-year-old discussion that shows that in the very near future, your electric car can be your home's generator for a couple of days—or with a hybrid vehicle—as long as you have gas (or propane) in the tank.




The photograph shows what the charging station looks like in your carpeted garage.

But sales are off for the all-electric Nissan Leaf, so a price-drop of $6000 was announced two months ago. The "newest-news", however, is a rumor that Nissan is planning on dropping the battery-only vehicle altogether.

That latest blurb is tainted only by the fact that the "info" originated from America's largest exporter of US-made vehicles—BMW.

[Mirror Lake's BB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Your explanation of how Line A and Line B feed the rows of circuits is not correct.

gslpro was right when he said row one is fed by line 1, and row two is fed by line 2 etc.

I recommend you shouldn't do any work on your electrical panel until you understand how it is hooked up.

Rusty,

That is correct and glad you posted your response quickly for all those following. It has been some time since I took my front cover off my panel and my memory didn't do me any favors. But there is a reason I got confused (age also has something to do with it). I check this anytime I would do work at my panel and should have verified this prior to posting. But I rushed in order to make dinner; baked crow. I apologize to all.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Mirror Lake's BB

Rusty,

That is correct and glad you posted your response quickly for all those following. It has been some time since I took my front cover off my panel and my memory didn't do me any favors. But there is a reason I got confused (age also has something to do with it). I check this anytime I would do work at my panel and should have verified this prior to posting. But I rushed in order to make dinner; baked crow. I apologize to all.

No problem. I think most people think that a panel is wired the way you explained it. I really don't know why, but they do.

NoBozo,
If I was your neighbor I would hook up a single circuit transfer switch to your panel for you...no charge...I have one kicking around in my garage. I say single circuit because you only have a 2000w generator. They are made to hook to your furnace but I can hook it to your panel to feed the line that your furnace is on.



http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Fcme4Aod0yYAwA

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Rusty

No problem. I think most people think that a panel is wired the way you explained it. I really don't know why, but they do.

NoBozo,
If I was your neighbor I would hook up a single circuit transfer switch to your panel for you...no charge...I have one kicking around in my garage. I say single circuit because you only have a 2000w generator. They are made to hook to your furnace but I can hook it to your panel to feed the line that your furnace is on.



http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Fcme4Aod0yYAwA

My Furnace is "Hard Wired". I'm looking at this box...I would prefer more than one circuit..for other things....BUT..I LIKE the use of the Common Extension cord ....so I can Switch Around to other appliances that need attention...with a long ...probably 50 feet. (Common) extension cord. Labor intensive..Yes....It's NOT automatic. NB

EDIT: This box would ONLY serve the furnace. The Common extention cord would allow me to serve other appliences...one at a time..as required.

[Kamper]

I now have one of those single circuits transfers on my furnace. It was a breeze to install. I actually mounted it near my furnace because it's 1/2 way between my breaker box and the access for my emergency power. I have been told it's supposed to be next to the circuit breaker box so if I ever sell, I'll remove it to avoid making anyone nervous.

Before that, I used a cut-out with a plug end. When I need it I popped the breaker and disconnected the feed at the furnace switch and tied in the cut-out instead of the main feed. I even had it all set up to go in a junction box so I wouldn't have to remember where I put anything. The only thing on that circuit is the furnace and I understand that's the recommended way to hook it up.

Everything else gets extension cords but my house is so small it's not a hardship. I may eventually get fancier but I am comfortable working at this level.

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Your explanation of how Line A and Line B feed the rows of circuits is not correct.

gslpro was right when he said row one is fed by line 1, and row two is fed by line 2 etc.

I recommend you shouldn't do any work on your electrical panel until you understand how it is hooked up.

What you are talking about are the 2 side of a Breaker LINE and LOAD. Line (L1 & L2)is the Voltage from the Street, Single Phase 220V (Generator), Load is the side that the Breaker is sending to the equipment.

I use an Interlock on my panel and it works fine. You can power up the key circuits needed to "weather" the Storm. When laying out the breaker configuration you want to balance the "load" as evenly on L1 and L2. You can see this on the PANEL layout as to how the Furnace is on L1 and the Refrigerator is on L2. Out side of the Well Pump these are the most important Items to have working.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by WINNOCTURN

What you are talking about are the 2 side of a Breaker LINE and LOAD. Line (L1 & L2)is the Voltage from the Street, Single Phase 220V (Generator), Load is the side that the Breaker is sending to the equipment.

I use an Interlock on my panel and it works fine. You can power up the key circuits needed to "weather" the Storm. When laying out the breaker configuration you want to balance the "load" as evenly on L1 and L2. You can see this on the PANEL layout as to how the Furnace is on L1 and the Refrigerator is on L2. Out side of the Well Pump these are the most important Items to have working.

In the PANEL layout pdf file I see your furnace on L2 and your Refrigerator on L1.

Nice job with the PANEL layout on a pdf file, it explains L1 and L2 very well.