Skydive Laconia?

[dpg]

Tom,

First let me say I admit to not having read this whole thread but I can't help but wonder why not just move on and open a facility elsewhere where it's actually welcome (i think that's possible.) I kind of wonder why it so definitely HAS to be Laconia.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by dpg

Tom,

First let me say I admit to not having read this whole thread but I can't help but wonder why not just move on and open a facility elsewhere where it's actually welcome (i think that's possible.) I kind of wonder why it so definitely HAS to be Laconia.

What would you suggest as the next-best airport in the lakes region?

[dpg]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

What would you suggest as the next-best airport in the lakes region?

No clue the obvious answer is there isn't another - but you already knew that. The Noonans are from Florida, how about somewhere between here and Florida? I'm not against it, I could honestly care less I won't be jumping but have no issue with it opening either. Just an honest question with this kind of opposition I'd think there would be a back-up plan (location.)

[NoRegrets]

Have you seen the whitish WACO Bi-plane flying around the lake? My wife and I watched it fly around the lake with the distinctive radial engine all season long and we finally made the call and took the full lake tour. What a great experience. Everyone should do it. http://www.lakesbiplane.com/location.html

Anyway, my point is that ten's of thousands of people will see the parachutes and a percentage of them will tack action and try it. Go off the beaten path and your market shrinks to a core population base. I think the Laconia location is probably the best for population density for this business.

[Pineedles]

I would imagine that the Noonans did some marketing studies and found LAA to be a good airport to do business; And business is all about making money! Sorry to state the cold hard facts FLL and others, but that is what our economy is based on! To move to Plymouth or elsewhere, would waste their hard earned money put into that marketing study! I wish those that don't understand Marketing 101 would crack a book and learn something! You just don't ignore a study because someone says "NIMBY".

[robmac]

Very well said Pineedles

[fatlazyless]

Dont'cha just know that the green grass runway over in Plymouth is looking like a lot more soft landing than that black asphalt runway in Laconia!

Landing a skydiver on the unfriendly Laconia asphalt could be used as a metaphor to describe how the Laconia Airport Authority is thinking; unfriendly!


Green grass: Plymouth, NH, runway; think 'nice soft landing.'
www.airnav.com/airport/1p1
www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6869793


Black asphalt: Laconia, NH, runway; think 'bloody abrasions on your hands and knees and nose......ouch! ...... !'
www.laconiaairport.com/


It's so simple, and it will not be long before the skydivers all like to refer to Plymouth as "the green, green grass of home!"


If the walls down in Washington at the F.A.A had ears and could talk, you know what those F.A.A. walls would be saying? They say: "But, over at that little Plymouth Airport, their grass is just looking soooooooo green!"

..............

Both airports, Laconia and Plymouth, do have one thing in common; they both have a Wal-Mart for an abutter neighbor, but I think the Plymouth Wal-Mart would afford a much better view of the skydivers disembarking out their airborne airplane. If you want to see the skydivers all go "Exit-stage right" then the Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot, way up atop a steep hilltop, would be the best spot! RV-er's and truckers use that parking lot like it was a rereational vehicle campground because of its' super mountain view, and to watch the birds of prey that soar down the Baker River valley on the thermal air currents.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

think 'bloody abrasions on your hands and knees and nose......ouch! ...... !'

That's inflammatory and based on assumption only! Why are some people so dead set to interject their baseless fears on others? Oh yeah, now I remember, same tactic was used in another debate.

[jmen24]

FLLess,

For cripes sake. You don't land on the runway, you land in the grass next to it. The plane takes off and lands on the runway, think 'Less wear and tear on the equipment, equals: lower costs of operations, equals: lower costs to participate in the activity'.

The issue with Plymouth is the same as Lebanon, ME. When you are up in the air the view of Winni is at a distance. I can only imagine how cool it would be to fall toward it.

Jumped for the first time this summer and a group of 10 that have boats on Winni or live within 30 minutes of it, drove our 3 day bachelor party to Maine.

The people that are saying to move away from the resistence are the same type of folks that fold/jump ship when things start getting nasty. At the end of the day if you stand up, having lost, you will know without a doubt that it was not because of your resolve.

Tom, keep up the grind, because that is all it is at this point.

[jmen24]

And just to add something.

Our group was the first group in the air on Saturday, we left the ground just before 7:30am and that plane only stopped long enough to fuel up until darkness fell on the field. When we woke up the next morning, things had already begun again. This is a mix of tandem, first solo flights and indi's.

While talking with some of the instructors that we jumped with at the end of the day around the fire. They said it is like this every weekend throughout the summer, except when rain slows them down. My instructor jumped with 15 different people that day and was on every other flight up. 31 flights that day and not a single space available for anyone that wanted to repeat that day or the following.

The most interesting thing about the freefall, was how sharp the temp change was. One minute you are COLD and then instantly you are hit with the temp of a mid-July morning. I would have thought it to be more gradual, but it was literally a slap of change.

[TheNoonans]

The Noonans are from Florida, how about somewhere between here and Florida

Hi dpg,

We actually own a home in Southern New Hampshire. We currently live in Florida, but we are from New England.

I am sure there are ample locations between Laconia and Daytona Beach, and I would welcome anyone that is interested in pursuing a skydiving operation somewhere within that region to contact me, and I would be happy to lead them in the right direction.

As for us, we are continuing to pursue opening a dropzone on Lake Winnipesaukee, it's a large part of our business model, and based on my continued active interaction with the FAA in Washington these days, I am fairly certain we will be able to open at the Laconia Municipal Airport as we have always intended.

As to "Why Laconia?", I promise you that if you read back through the posts, you will get all the answers I can offer and even the minority opposition's views.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[TheNoonans]

If the walls down in Washington at the F.A.A had ears and could talk, you know what those F.A.A. walls would be saying? They say: "But, over at that little Plymouth Airport, their grass is just looking soooooooo green!"

Less, I continue to enjoy your enthusiasm..........lol

Hi Pineedles,

I think everyone that has read this thread understands that whether a dropzone has a grass runway like Plymouth or an asphalt runway like Laconia, both operations would land their parachutes on grass.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[Pineedles]

Exactly my point Tom. Thanks.

[trfour]

My thanks to the Noonans For doing their best to educate some of our children out here!

The grownups that stand up behind them, ( % Wise ) are very much looking forward to the very day that your drop zone will include the Laconia Airport!

Less the bats, you can understand just how much most of us are willing and able to, and also have already welcomed TheNoonans to this area!!

Team' Noonans will live long into the future here!
With Love,
Terry

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by jmen24

FLLess,

For cripes sake. You don't land on the runway, you land in the grass next to it. The plane takes off and lands on the runway, think....

Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway. Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway.Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!

Your first post was in this thread was #18.Post #12 by Flyguy had a graphic of the proposed landing area shown on the grass.It now does not show on my screen but it certainly was there when you posted a mere 5 1/2 hours later and stated this:

Isn't there a large, vacant, and mostly unused parking lot directly across Route 11 from the Laconia Airport. You know, the p-lot with the water tower and the NH State liquor store. It's just a short jog back across the road from the p-lot to the hanger area like a quarter mile or so. Skydiver landing on an asphalt p-lot....at least you'll be able to find a parking spot, easy.

I saw a great sign at the old Waldo Peppers(Home Cookin?) on Rt11 last Sunday while I was eating breakfast.
It read something like this:We are born with 2 ears and 1 mouth.We should listen twice as much as we speak.

[fatlazyless]

Up in Plymouth, a mere 17-air miles away from Laconia, the Plymouth Airport is basically one single, green grass, 2380' x 90' runway with a real working, vegetable farm that consists of acres of growing vegetables, just a few yards directly west and lined up with the grass runway.

So, should any beginner skydivers overshoot their landing, which seems pretty likely to happen, they will be landing in a farmer's field of vegetables, or maybe even crashing through the large greenhouse's translucent roof.

www.longviewfarmnh.com and take a peek at the 12-photo slideshow and the aerial photo that includes the Plymouth Airport!

Anyway, that would give the mis-directed skydiver a good opportunity for them to eat their VEGETABLES, as opposed to eating the ASPHALT parking lot over in Gilford, that's near the L.A.A. ...

[AC2717]

From FLL:
"So, should any beginner skydivers overshoot their landing, which seems pretty likely to happen, they will be landing in a farmer's field of vegetables, or maybe even crashing through the large greenhouse transparent roof."

Hate to tell you this again, but it is highly uinlikely that there would be an overshoot on the landing- as much as I lover your banter, and I do, I have to correct you on this one, it is highly controlled

[TheNoonans]

Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway. Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!

C'mon Less, ya gotta stay up on these things.....lol Mr. Hemmel made sure everyone on this thread knew all of the grassy areas we wanted to land in before we even had a chance to share them with you when he posted our landing area proposals here on this thread.

But I am REALLY REALLY glad you brought this back up, because it brings up a good point. Despite providing the LAA with a business plan proposal and posting our intents here on the board, most of those minority opposers, have no idea what it is we intend to do when we open at Laconia.

Our intent is to open a tandem skydiving operation to provide tandem skydiving over the lake. Our instructors and aerial videographers will all be professional skydivers with expert skydiving licenses. That will be 99% of our business at Laconia.

Will we welcome sport jumpers? Of course, but we don't expect it to be a regular thing, at least in the first few years of operation. Another thing to consider is this, is a Monday afternoon as busy as a friday or saturday? Not usually on the airport. So if Monday's are slow there, we may choose Mondays to do "sport mondays" to give sport jumpers a chance to enjoy the view without interfering with a busy saturday.

We mentioned this to the LAA and they know we are not planning on training students on weekends, if at all in the first few years. We made that abundantly clear. The problem is, they want to regulate that too, and guess what, they can't. Why? They're not experts. We are. No one knows what conditions are better for tandem, versus sport or sport versus student, than Mary and I up there. We refuse to budge because they have no legal right or safety background to be restricting our business.

Safety is our first priority. With our global safety experience background, we, not the LAA, are in the best position to make safety based decisions on how we choose to run our business. For them to suggest anything to the contrary is not based on any practical knowledge or experience.

So Less, what does that mean to you and I? I agree with you. How 'bout that? I agree that Plymouth would be a great place to train students and I tell you what, I'm even willing to put a Cessna 182 up there to do just that for you.

I even told the LAA that for all intensive purposes, that tandem skydiving in Laconia was our primary objective and that student jumping was going to be non existent at first and minimally existent at best on slow days, once we got things going.

So, call your pals in Plymouth and give them my contact info, and I'll be up there with a plane in no time for you, I promise.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[NoBozo]

I wonder if Less is really a deprived "Closet Skydiver"..... NB

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

So Less, what does that mean to you and I? I agree with you. How 'bout that? I agree that Plymouth would be a great place to train students and I tell you what, I'm even willing to put a Cessna 182 up there to do just that for you.

I even told the LAA that for all intensive purposes, that tandem skydiving in Laconia was our primary objective and that student jumping was going to be non existent at first and minimally existent at best on slow days, once we got things going.

So, call your pals in Plymouth and give them my contact info, and I'll be up there with a plane in no time for you, I promise.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

SO does that mean you will use me as a tandom test subject, I know I can get you a couple volunteers

[TheNoonans]

Update:

The directors level of the FAA continues to work with me and they continue to proactively contact me every few days with new questions and items. The free flow dissemination of facts and evidence has been nothing short of exceptional.

We are in the home stretch on this one. Trust me. Not only vindication from our perspective, that the Laconia Municipal Airport can sustain a skydiving operation and that the LAA, who have no background in aviation safety assessments, despite their "priority or responsibilities"......., will find out all too soon what can and cannot be accommodated on the government's federally funded airport.

If you have a trike, a glider, a power paraglider, or any other aeronautical vehicle that you want to fly into or out of Laconia, you are about to be given a legal and fair opportunity to present your case to the FAA, not the LAA, regarding what can and cannot be safely accommodated.

After all, the FAA, not the LAA, are the experts when it comes to safety.

Now, one more item to mention. I have posted a few times in this thread before that the actions of the LAA have put the NHDOT Department of Aeronautics in a difficult situation, a situation that could very well result in the removal of the state's "block grant" status regarding federal funding.

Well, I brought that point up to the FAA, that the LAA was shown multiple times to be discriminating against us, and that those discriminations were brought to the NHDOT Dep of Aeronautics and nothing was done. We believed (correctly so it would seem) that the NHDOT Dep of Aero, was responsible for ensuring LAA compliance with the federal funding grant assurances, as after all, they were the ones doling out all that money to the airport. And guess what? I was pretty much spot on in my assumption.

Here is where it gets interesting. The NHDOT Dep. of Aero, has continued to fund an airport that was clearly shown to have violated it's federal funding grant assurances. The airport broke the agreement they entered into and then the NHDOT Dep. of Aero continued to fund them anyways.

In this day and age of budget responsibility, do you think when I brought that irony up to the FAA that it fell on deaf ears? I didn't think it would either.....

So now because I was able to document to the FAA that the LAA discriminated against us and that the NHDOT Dep. of Aero was informed about it and did nothing to bring them back into compliance, the "block grant" status of the NHDOT Dep. of Aerro is being investigated by the FAA.

What does that mean to airports across the state that want funding? Nothing really. If the "block grant" status is removed, airports across the state can still request the same level of funding and receive the same level of funding. The only difference is they will request the funds directly from the FAA, like 43 other states currently do and the only change in policy will be that the FAA will ensure the airport's compliance with their funding grant assurances before doling out the money.

So it's a win/win really. I offer you that explanation in case anyone from the other side tries to distort the facts. My version is fact based.

With that, our next step is of course Congress. We want to make sure the people representing us in Congress are fully briefed on what is going on. The meeting is already scheduled for later this week.

I'll be sure to post the results of the meeting next week to keep you in the loop.

As always, we remain an open book of facts and actions.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[TheNoonans]

I just sent the below email to both the City Council of Laconia and Gilford Selectmen:

Good afternoon to all,

My name is Tom Noonan and my wife and I have spent the last three and half years requesting to operate a commercial skydiving operation at the Laconia Municipal Airport. To date, our proposal still remains unsupported by the Laconia Airport Authority, and I just wanted to check in with you all to give you a perspective of what will be occurring within the FAA in the near future and the impact it will have our proposal process.

As a background, there have been two "FAA" reports issued by regional FAA agent Michel Hovan of Airports Division, Massachusetts. As I have stated publicly, those reports were erroneous, and created without any guidance or oversight from the FAA in Washington, D.C. Since those reports were issued, I have been in contact with virtually every level of the FAA, including it's chief administrator, Randy Babbitt. I was able to provide Mr. Babbitt's department heads, the director level of the FAA, with verifiable facts and evidence to support that:

1) The LAA discriminated against Skydive Laconia on many occasions in direct violation of their federal funding grant assurances.
2) The NHDOT Department of Aeronautics failed to act to bring the LAA back into compliance.
and
3) Both of the reports issued by the local FAA are completely erroneous.

To validate the seriousness of position and facts, I would like you to consider the fact that at that high a level of the FAA, only factual, verifiable information can pass judgement from the FAA directors, and the fact that I am still in direct communication with them should suggest to you all the validity of the information that I have provided them.

For anyone involved in this process, it is easy to see that we were never given a fair chance by the LAA, and that it is the LAA that forced our position to bring this unjust process a national stage with both the FAA and the media.

I offer the following information for your consideration as it is my sincere belief that justice and accountability within the FAA is just around the corner:

The FAA will very shortly be finalizing a process that will clearly label the Laconia Municipal Airport as viable for a commercial skydiving operation, and equally as important, the FAA will also be enforcing the compliance of it directly and swiftly. If the LAA chooses to remain non-compliant when this process is through, they will forfeit any future federal funding and be required to refund the last ten years of funding they received, that I am finally sure of now.

The FAA has taken the discriminatory practices of the LAA and other airport sponsors across the country that have ignored airport access assurances, very seriously. In this day and age of fiscal accountability, the FAA is about to lead a charge across the nation and put an end to airport sponsors abuse of their funding privileges.

It is also important to understand that the actions of the LAA have now jeopardized the "block grant state" status of the NHDOT. The NHDOT requested to be actively involved in the dissemination of federal funding and the FAA has allowed a handful of states to pursue this role in a test program. I have been able to clearly demonstrate to the FAA in Washington, D.C., that not only did the LAA discriminate against us multiple times during this process, but that when we then informed the NHDOT about the discriminations, they ignored the facts and allowed to airport to continue to receive federal funding. It is with those facts and statements as the foundation for my request, that I asked the FAA to revoke the "block grant' status of the NHDOT and that request is currently under consideration in Washington, D.C.

It is our expectation that by the end of the year, this process will have finally reached it's just conclusion and the FAA will return a verdict that states that Skydive Laconia may be granted access to land our parachutes on the property of the airport, as we contended could be done in July of 2008. We also expect the LAA and the NHDOT to honor that verdict and work with us, not against us, in living up to the federal funding grant assurances that they agreed to.

I am writing to both the City Council of Laconia and the Gilford Selectmen today to renew an offer to meet with you all to help you better understand what impact our business will have on the area, both operationally and financially. My last request to meet with you all and to explain our proposal fell on deaf ears. I can only hope that your willingness to view our proposal with an open mind has increased since my last email and that you consider allowing my wife and I to educate you all on the process that we have been forced to endure, the just outcome that is soon to arrive, and what that means to both communities in terms of new jobs and economic stimulus into the area.

This is your chance to show the community your renewed commitment to economic growth and a just conclusion to the unjust process created by the LAA three and a half years ago.

If you would like to arrange a meeting, please let me know.

Best regards,

Tom Noonan
Skydive Laconia

Now they ignored my request last time, as Mr. Hemmel said because "why should they waste their time......". Well, change is coming, and I have thus informed both groups again, and have again offered to present to them both the facts of the proposal and explain how we can benefit the communities.

So, what do you think? Do you think the City Council and Selectmen should meet with us?

Let them know your thoughts. Email them directly and tell them yes or no if you want them to meet with us.

Now if you email them and tell them "No! Don't listen to reason and facts!", please feel free to post here as to why you don't believe that the leaders of both communities shouldn't take every opportunity to educate themselves on a potential new business that will bring new jobs, extend the tourist season, and more money into the economy. I know one person in that vocal minority thinks it's "disrespectful" of us to pursue justice and fair treatment....but that aside, is there any reason at all for a civic leader not to listen and educate themselves? If anyone can provide a sound valid argument devoid of emotional response, I will be impressed. After all listening costs nothing.

Gilford: [email protected]

Laconia: [email protected]

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Jonas Pilot]

It seems you don't care who you inconvenience. I can't help but think that there are more important things that these people should be dealing with.

[robmac]

I for one feel my tax dollars when spent should be for the benefit of all. That said if grant money is given and the rules of the grant are not followed then all monies should be returned to the general fund.To be in the publics trust and not follow the letter of the law is criminal plain and simple.To not give someone equal oportunity to lawfully utilize an entity which gets funds from taxpayers without a fair hearing which is in part why you get those funds is again illegal.How many other people attempting to start a business have been thwarted due to this practice? If you don't want to allow anyone to be able use the facility then return the funding and operate without them,charge those who do use it enough to continue to do so. JMHO

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

It seems you don't care who you inconvenience.

Often times doing the right thing is inconvenient, but that doesn't mean that the right thing shouldn't be done.

I can't help but think that there are more important things that these people should be dealing with.

I don't think that what he's doing is based on your set of priorities.