building Winni Sailing

[fatlazyless]

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...s-foul-weather

and this Winnipesaukee Forum gets a mention!

[VitaBene]

Thanks FLL. Read the paragraph I pasted in and you can understand what is wrong with government. Make a decision Mr Bald, one way or the other. It is your job to start or stop the process you describe.

Bald stressed that the process for handling such requests is prolonged and complex. First, he, as the commissioner, must approve the proposal, which must subsequently be endorsed by the Council on Resources and Development, composed of the heads of 13 state agencies, and the Long Range Capital Planning and Utilization Committee of the Legislature. He indicated that public meetings would likely be held at each step of the process. Finally, the proposal would require a vote of the Governor and Executive Council.

Bald said that he did not expect to making a decision on the proposal in the near future.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Thanks FLL. Read the paragraph I pasted in and you can understand what is wrong with government. Make a decision Mr Bald, one way or the other. It is your job to start or stop the process you describe.

Bald stressed that the process for handling such requests is prolonged and complex. First, he, as the commissioner, must approve the proposal, which must subsequently be endorsed by the Council on Resources and Development, composed of the heads of 13 state agencies, and the Long Range Capital Planning and Utilization Committee of the Legislature. He indicated that public meetings would likely be held at each step of the process. Finally, the proposal would require a vote of the Governor and Executive Council.

Bald said that he did not expect to making a decision on the proposal in the near future.

Hello Vitabene,

Commissioner Bald is, in fact, a fair distance away from making a decision on this project. Please let there be no understanding, however, about one very important matter. The LWSA and I have sought and received the approval of DRED's staff people at the Parks and Recreation Division of DRED for every single step we have taken thus far on this project. We have moved forward together DRED's staff with the full knowledge that there is a long and arduous approval process ahead of us with an outcome that is by no means certain.

We are aware of every step of the approval process referred to by Commisioner Bald in your post and there are other approvals that are outside of his direct areas of responsibility that we will need to obtain as well. We will need a green light from the Department of Environmental Services (DES) for our waterfront development and to tie into the Winnipesaukee Sewer Interceptor. We must go through Gilford's entire approval process that will include its Planning Board and its Board of Selectmen. We will need to formally meet with the Gunstock Area Commission and the Belknap County Commissioners. And, we will need an approval from the Federal Bureau of Outdoor Land Management since Federal funds were used to create Ellacoya.

Please be aware that we have met informally with all of these groups, commissions, boards and agencies already, other than the Feds, to introduce our project and to get an idea of what things they all might like to see us do or not do going forward. We have been given either green or flashing yellow lights from all of these entities and where the lights have been yellow, we have learned what their concerns are and we have made or are in the process of making modifications to our plans that we feel will turn the one or two yellow lights to green when we next go before them for a final review or approval.

This process is not new to me. While the process might seem daunting to some, I deal with the need to obtain town, state and at times, Federal agency approvals day in and day out. I am patient and I generally get the approvals my projects need because I don't cut corners and I painstakingly research the criteria needed to get approvals before presenting final plans. I either include what has been requested up front by the parties reviewing the plans or I provide a logical reason for deviating from what has been suggested and I present viable options for those deviations. I am fully aware that we may be at this for several years, but I am confident we have made the right decision in choosing the Ellacoya site.

We will make good and compatible neighbors for Lake Shore Park and for the folks that have been enjoying RV'ing at Ellacoya for many years. We will add to the offering that is Lake Shore Park and Ellacoya in ways that the residents and RV'ers can't begin to appreciate until we are in place and functioning. We will respect the fact they have been there before us and we will run our operation in a manner that will defer to the fact they have been on the block a lot longer than we have and that we need to cognizant of this reality.

There will need to be some level of adaptation to our presence, but it won't alter the enjoyment of Ellacoya and I believe we will enhance the Ellacoya experience in meaningful and measureable ways that won't become totally clear until our facility is in place and functioning. Once this happens, Lake Shore Park and the RV'ers will be singing our praises and they'll be our best customers.

I'm available to meet with folks one on one or in a group to discuss our program. I have met with folks at Lake Shore Park a number of times and while we haven't solved every issue on their minds, I feel we're making progress. I hope they agree!

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[Never Satisfied]

I am personally a boater and enjoy Lake Winnie every summer weekend on my boat. With that said, my parents come to visit the lake 3-4 weekends per summer and stay at Ellacoya. For those weekends I also enjoy the RV park.

Ellacoya State Park is probably the nicest state owned RV park in NH. Its definitely the nicest on Winnie... Why would we want to change that?

Most of this thread (with the exception of a few posts) is about boating, boating, boating... As a boater myself it is easy to think that way. But as a boater, I have the whole entire lake to enjoy. 72 square miles to be exact. Why can't we give the hundreds perhaps thousands of RVers in the state of NH alone, 23 acres or 600 feet of shorefront?

How much shorefront land will be disrupted for this project? How many shorefront trees will be taken down? Is this project exempt from the shore land protection laws which disallow removing trees and brush so many feet from the shoreline?

I am a Die Hard Lake Winnie boater and I am AGAINST this project. Let's preserve the natural beauty of the nicest RV park on the lake and let RVers keep their tiny portion of Lake Winnie.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Never Satisfied

I am personally a boater and enjoy Lake Winnie every summer weekend on my boat. With that said, my parents come to visit the lake 3-4 weekends per summer and stay at Ellacoya. For those weekends I also enjoy the RV park.

Ellacoya State Park is probably the nicest state owned RV park in NH. Its definitely the nicest on Winnie... Why would we want to change that?

Most of this thread (with the exception of a few posts) is about boating, boating, boating... As a boater myself it is easy to think that way. But as a boater, I have the whole entire lake to enjoy. 72 square miles to be exact. Why can't we give the hundreds perhaps thousands of RVers in the state of NH alone, 23 acres or 600 feet of shorefront?

How much shorefront land will be disrupted for this project? How many shorefront trees will be taken down? Is this project exempt from the shore land protection laws which disallow removing trees and brush so many feet from the shoreline?

I am a Die Hard Lake Winnie boater and I am AGAINST this project. Let's preserve the natural beauty of the nicest RV park on the lake and let RVers keep their tiny portion of Lake Winnie.

Good Morning Never Satisfied,

It appears that your handle, Never Satisfied, is a misnomer, at least in the context of Ellacoya. You are obviously more than satisfied about the status quo at that location. We are, of course, all entitled to our opinions, but there are a few facts I need to share with you.

First of all, the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH was very specific about the activities that were to be accommodated at that property and there are about fifteen different types of outdoor programs that were mentioned including, sailing and sailing instruction. No where in that deed is there any mention of camping or RV'ing. That having been said, there's plenty of room at Ellacoya for the RV'ers to do their thing and for a sailing center to exist in a manner that will allow the two uses to compement one another. Furthermore, we have no intention of seeking for the terms of the deed to be enforced. We rather like the notion that campers might be an audience and a source of people for some of our activities.

A sailing center will enhance the RV'ers experience, both children and adults. We would occupy a very small corner of the facility and our uses would take up only 200 feet of the entire lake frontage. Our programs will be open to the public, including the folks in the campground adding in the process, a whole new dimension to the Ellacoya experience. We intend to upgrade the public lauching facility so that vehicles will no longer dig up the beach when they get stuck trying to launch boats.

The RV Park is really busy only about two months out of the year. Our LWSA Sailing Center will be active for at least six months every year and a small portion of the facility will be heated for our staff to occupy offices and for our Board to have meetings during the winter.

We will be subject to the Shoreland Protection Zone. The stand of oaks at Ellacoya are magnificent and we have no intention of cutting any of those trees within the fifty foot setback zone. We wish to capitalize on the beauty of Ellacoya, not to damage it.

Our programs will revolve mostly around children and the participants in our Adaptive Sailing Program. We will introduce the beauty and the thrills of sailing to profoundly handicapped children and adults, including particpants in the Wounded Warrior Project - badly injured Vets coming back from service overseas. We will also provide programs for adults who wish to learn how to sail. Don't you feel these are worthwhile and appropriate activities to share a small portion of Ellacoya with?

Never Satisfied, our new Sailing Center is an appropriate and viable use for Ellacoya. You should be willing to share a small section of Ellacoya with us. It is, after all, a publicly owned property that should be available for the widest possible types of public uses. You should be encouraging our presence at Ellacoya instead of conjuring up images that somehow we will not be a pleasant addition to the Ellacoya scene.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association

[fatlazyless]

Say, the Ellacoya RV Campground costs $47/night to rent a spot that comes with hook-ups, and rv-ers can always chose to go to one of the 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest for $16-20/night without any hook-ups.

The Ellecoya RV Campground occupies a large field type area that is almost totally treeless except for the beautifull large pin oak trees http://www.earlyforest.com/2008/09/p...-oak-tree.html which are close to the natural sandy beach waterfront, and the rv campground area which is very very flat and very level. If I had my druthers.....what an ideal location for tennis; like maybe ten rubberized asphalt, all-season tennis courts, two with lights, and a small tennis maintenance building with a covered picnic table area. Introducing the Ellacoya State Tennis Courts...........a little drum roll here......budda-bing......for some nice new, blue and green rubberized asphalt, very low maintenance tennis courts! Let's lose the rv campground and get healthy running around those new tennis courts and smacking a tennis ball with a tennis racquet. Tennis is a sport you can play till you are 99 years old!

Tennis and sailing go together very well as a complimentary sport with skiing, as in the nearby Gunstock Ski Area! RVer's need to head north for 45-minutes up to those 23 federal WMNF campgrounds that go for just $16 or 20/night. $47 to stay overnight at Ellacoya State RV Park.....that seems very expensive to me!

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Say, the Ellacoya RV Campground costs $47/night to rent a spot that comes with hook-ups, and rv-ers can always chose to go to one of the 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest for $16-20/night without any hook-ups.

The Ellecoya RV Campground occupies a large field type area that is almost totally treeless except for the beautifull large pin oak trees http://www.earlyforest.com/2008/09/p...-oak-tree.html which are close to the natural sandy beach waterfront, and the rv campground area which is very very flat and very level. If I had my druthers.....what an ideal location for tennis; like maybe ten rubberized asphalt, all-season tennis courts, two with lights, and a small tennis maintenance building with a covered picnic table area. Introducing the Ellacoya State Tennis Courts...........a little drum roll here......budda-bing......for some nice new, blue and green rubberized asphalt, very low maintenance tennis courts! Let's lose the rv campground and get healthy running around those new tennis courts and smacking a tennis ball with a tennis racquet. Tennis is a sport you can play till you are 99 years old!

Tennis and sailing go together very well as a complimentary sport with skiing, as in the nearby Gunstock Ski Area! RVer's need to head north for 45-minutes up to those 23 federal WMNF campgrounds that go for just $16 or 20/night. $47 to stay overnight at Ellacoya State RV Park.....that seems very expensive to me!

Greetings,

Actually, I was thinking a casino at Ellacoya would be even better than tennis courts. OUCH! My tongue has created a permanent hole in the inside lining of my cheek!

Regards,

Tom

[ishoot308]

Hi Tom;

I am curious... If the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH did not include camping and RV's, how was the RV park allowed to go in there in the first place???

Sounds like the land may finally get what the grantor had originally intended for its use!

Good luck with your project! Sounds like a wonderful and worthwhile addition to the lake!

Dan

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hi Tom;

I am curious... If the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH did not include camping and RV's, how was the RV park allowed to go in there in the first place???

Sounds like the land may finally get what the grantor had originally intended for its use!

Good luck with your project! Sounds like a wonderful and worthwhile addition to the lake!

Dan

Hello Dan,

Thanks for your kind thoughts. The reality is that there's more than enough room for the camping to remain there and for our sailing center to be there as well. The area where we would be is in all actuality, quite under utilized.

The launching ramp is in a state of disrepair and vehicles regularly get stuck in the beach sand in the process of launching boats. The ramp is not adequately patrolled by Ellacoya personnel and the rules of usage and State of NH regulations are constantly being ignored.

I feel certain that the State will recognize what a tremendous asset we're offering to create for the use of the public. At no cost to the State or to the public, we will be creating an opportunity for people to gain controlled access to the lake in a thoroughly green and sustainable fashion including the folks who are RV'ing in the campground. What's not to like about that!

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[Never Satisfied]

Originally Posted by tntm_71we

Good Morning Never Satisfied,
It appears that your handle, Never Satisfied, is a misnomer, at least in the context of Ellacoya. You are obviously more than satisfied about the status quo at that location. We are, of course, all entitled to our opinions, but there are a few facts I need to share with you.

I am so happy you got a kick out of my screen name. It defines my personality in regards to my boat. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ellacoya State Park.

You keep mentioning the opportunity for kids.... It’s all about the kids..... The fact is that most kids could care less about a banquet facility. Most young children couldn’t even define banquet. If this was REALLY about the "kids" the proposal would be much less than a banquet facility, offices for the board, breakwater, docks and a mooring field. If you put a kid in a boat and teach them how to sail, they will have a GREAT time regardless of the infrastructure around it.

Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.

FLL & Mr. Mullen: Tennis courts and a Casino?????? Seriously????? Although I know these remarks are facetious, it is these remarks that just show your underlying character and how much regard you have for everyone besides yourselves.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Never Satisfied

FLL & Mr. Mullen: Tennis courts and a Casino?????? Seriously????? Although I know these remarks are facetious, it is these remarks that just show your underlying character and how much regard you have for everyone besides yourselves.

Lake Winnipesaukee does not have a free-to-use state boat launch and parking facility while Lakes Newfound, Winnisquam, Squam, and Sunapee(under construction ?) all do. Their construction was paid with NH boat registration fees, are very well designed, and get a lot of use by trailer-boaters. To get a parking spot, it's probably a good idea to get to one early.

In my opinion, the Ellacoya RV Park which co-exists with the Ellacoya State Beach on the same property that's geographically divided by the Poor Farm Brook would be an excellent location on Lake Winnipesaukee to also have both a state boat launch and a community sailing program.

[Never Satisfied]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Lake Winnipesaukee does not have a free-to-use state boat launch and parking facility while Lakes Newfound, Winnisquam, Squam, and Sunapee(under construction) all do. Their construction was paid with NH boat registration fees, are very very well designed, and as mentioned, free to use.

In my opinion, the Ellacoya RV Park which co-exists with the Ellacoya State Beach on the same property would be an incredibly excellent spot to also have both a state boat launch and a community sailing program.

Very well said and I definitely agree. The only thing I disagree with (my own opinion) is the size of this project and natural beauty/views that I believe it will disrupt (again, my own opinion). I think a free to use boat ramp, sailing program and RV park can all co-exist without a banquet facility, offices, elaborate docking, mooring field and a breakwater.

[fatlazyless]

Suggest you go take a look at www.squamlakes.org/ and www.squamlakes.org/support/youthactivitybarn.php and see what they got going for a community sailing program!

The Squam Lakes state boat launch is located on the 1/8 mile long Squam River that connects Big and Little Squam, and is about two miles across the water from the sailing program facility pictured in the above websites. That large building (not the new activities barn) in www.squamlakes.org/ used to be a Rt 3 motel, until about the year 2000 when it and the LAND was purchased by the Squam Lakes Assoc.

[Herburban]

Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.


Free rent?

[fatlazyless]

Another possible spot is the boat launch area at Ames' Farm Inn that's close to the Gilford-Alton town line. That would be a great spot for the state boat launch area, and I believe there was, or is a listing somewhere that had a 49% interest in the Ames' Farm Inn up for sale although I could not find a link to that listing. Instead of selling off a 49% interest, maybe the Div of Recreation & Parks could write a big fat, NH boat registration fees check to purchase the subdivided waterfront section down at Ames' that includes the boat launch area that would be separated from the inn building at Ames'? What a plan......think about it.... the Ames' Farm pancake breakfast and state boat launch-trailer boaters could co-exist in happy harmony, eating pancakes, backing boats down the ramps, and shooting the breeze at that beautiful, friendly location for another hundred years!

What better place for a state boat launch since that used to be the de facto "state" boat launch in actual use anyway, plus the NH Fish & Game used to set up a fish inspection station and take time to weigh and inspect the fish as the competition bass boats returned with their catch.

And a great big "Merry Christmas to you buddy!" to their nearby, attorney neighbor who lawyered out the close-down at Ames' Farm due to a land use - zoning issue.....ho-ho-ho! ........should this plan ever go through! .....which it most likely will definitely NOT......because the money is NOT there to spend by the state.....and the state already has the under-utilized, 65-acre Ellacoya property.

Maybe this is now incorrect, but according to www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html the state beach is open full time from June 14 to Sept 1, 2008, and it does not really say what the operation dates are for the RV Park. Thinking about a free-to-use, state boat launch and community sailing program, the months of May, June, September and October are doable which would make Ellacoya usable for a lot longer than is currently being done. It is the one and only NH State public park on all of Lake Winnipesaukee, the only one(!), so having it available and usable for both launching boats and community sail boating for the additional months of May, June, September and October makes some good sense to me!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Herburban

Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.


Free rent?

It is not the RVer's Park!!

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

It is not the RVer's Park!!

Oh yes, it is the rv-er's park! Regardless that the original deed did not include rv use, it is indeed the rv-er's park because the water-sewerage-electricity rv-hookups, rv lot layout, and continual use and administration for maybe thirty years by the state all add up to make it a recreational vehicle park.

What's at issue is: does the state want to add a boat launch and community sailing program to co-exist with the existing rv park and swimming beach area? Is it doable and workable and usable, and is it a good additional public use to the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park?

www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html

............

As far as the State of NH setting out to purchase some waterfront Winnipesaukee property for a state boat launch or a community sailing program; that sure seems like a very long shot. In 1997, the state had the opportunity to purchase the Camp Alton property for just one million dollars and it said no to that. In about 2001, the state had the opportunity to purchase 130-acre Timber Island for about 1.5 million and it said no to that.

As far as I know, both Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park in Gilford on Lake Winnipesaukee, and Whittemore State Beach & Park on Newfound Lake in Bristol were both gifted to the state by some very generous private families.

As big as Lake Winnipesaukee is: 71 square miles in size and with 288 miles of shore front, the 65.5-acre Ellacoya property is the only state owned waterfront park of its' kind on the whole lake.

Just for the heck of it, to see what's nearby over in Maine about one hour away, suggest you google "Lake Sebago State Park Maine" to see what the State of Maine has to offer up for a big lake, state park beach-rv-swim-boat-hike experience.

[Herburban]

The RV park brings in a profit for the state. It's one of the most profitable parks in the state of NH. Not to mention the money we spend at local businesses. More people would use it if they allowed dogs. But that is another can of worms.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Herburban

The RV park brings in a profit for the state. It's one of the most profitable parks in the state of NH. Not to mention the money we spend at local businesses. More people would use it if they allowed dogs. But that is another can of worms.

I guess I should have finished my statement. Like all resources owned by NH, it does not belong to any one group. It is being used in part by RVs, but it certainly is not exclusively for the use of RVs and their owners.

It is a shared resource that is owned by all of the residents of NH, no different than the Lake itself.

FLL, why don't you donate your property to Winni Sailing. You will get that tax albatross off your back while helping to teach our young people to sail We.could also have a nice public boat ramp.

[fatlazyless]

With all five governor's council positions, plus the majority of the state senate and house of reps being Republican, it's unlikely that anything will happen anytime soon. The Republican's always seem to find a reason why public projects don't get built, and in NH state park's case why the asphalt roof shingles do not get replaced or building exteriors get repainted.

NH is the one and only state where the state parks and recreation department is totally self funded by admission receipts, and gets no money from the general state fund.

Go take a walk around the Ellacoya State Park, on both sides of the brook, and it is like walking back into 1965. All the construction and recreation fixtures like slides, swings and seasonal buildings look like the maintenance dept has been lovingly maintaining them since 1965 because they know there's very little money for maintenance and repairs.

"Gotta luv that Laconia Trustworthy Hardware, like Moe came up with a donated gallon of dark brown stain so's we can at least start some on the fence out front!"

[XCR-700]

Sounds like a GREAT idea, but what an unthinkable thing to do the one of the nicest public places on Winnipesaukee.

Anywhere but there,,,

There must be an easy dozen better places then ruining Ellacoya.

And as a day boater on Winnipesaukee who has suffered considerably with the loss of access to the Ames Farm ramp, I am the first to say the state owes us all (yes including us non-residents who actually register our boats in NH!) a decent ramp with a reasonably sufficient parking (like more than 10 -20), but with that said I would NEVER want it at Ellacoya. Its just too pristine to even consider such an high impact change.

I am very surprised to think anyone would want to see this beautiful place turned upside down with the addition of all that is being discussed.

This is but one more example of how Winnipesauke continues to evolve and not for the better. Winnipesaukee gets speed limits, bans on switchable exhaust, restrictions on how many skiers/tubes you can tow, Ames Farm boat ramp gets shut down and little is done to save it, but bulldoze part of Ellacoya for a private sailing school and club/entertainment facility and it gets a big thumbs up,,, Not sure what to even make of this,,,

I’ll say again, its not the Winnipesaukee I spent summers on as a kid, and I don’t see these changes and positive.

I say build your sailing school and entertainment facility with all the blessings and endorsement I can muster, but not at Ellacoya!

[fatlazyless]

I suggest to build the community sailing program and state boat ramp in the Camp Monotomy unused girl scout camp that's way down Meredith Neck and close to the south end of Bear Island. It is a large wilderness, totally tree'd in area with a large undeveloped waterfront and a super-duper spot for a sailing program/boat ramp.

Camp Monotomy is owned by the Girl Scouts of Massachusetts so their setting up a 99-year lease for a community sailing program and boat launch could be a big money-maker to the mission of the girl scouts since no one seems to be using Camp Monotomy, anymore. After 99-years, the girl scouts can always turn it back into a traditional girl scout camp, and everybody will have a win-win-win!

http://www.ledgertranscript.com/arti...-camp-to-close

www.lwhs.us/camps/menotomy/menotomy.htm

http://www.cabinet.com/cabinetcabine...-to-close.html