Dug Well-Buying Concern

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Those "salt bins" are called a brine tank and they are for softening the water which iron among other minerals are responsible for making it "hard".Almost all softening systems will have a brine tank in this area.

One thing to look at and this is REALLY important. If you look at a house that happens to have a brine based water softener installed, or have one installed do not under any circumstances have them drain into a septic system. It will destroy it. When I put mine in I dug a dry well to drain it into in the back yard. Now I have no idea if that is "legal" per say but draining it in your septic system will lead to premature failure. There are other methods to soften water, but they can be significantly more expensive.

I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.

[CateP]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.

My plan B would be to drill a well if we had to, but I'm wondering how would we know that a well can't be successfully drilled on a property? Is there something that we would test for before hand?

[jmen24]

CateP, it all has to do with access. Low hanging branches, tight tree spacing and a lack of water source to drill to are the main reasons.

There are a few other possible reasons, but these are really not common. A drill rig is a very large truck and requires a support vehicle that is equal in size. They have to be able to stay in position for a day or two while drilling.

So if the only way to get over 75 feet (code requirement) from your leach field is to drive over your leach field, you would want to get really friendly with your neighbors, quickly.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by CateP

My plan B would be to drill a well if we had to, but I'm wondering how would we know that a well can't be successfully drilled on a property? Is there something that we would test for before hand?

Beats me. If you believe in voodoo have somebody walk around with those dowsing rods I guess that's one way. On a more serious note I assume that any well company will have an idea where the best placement is for a well or have some information in regards to the location of under ground aqua-furs as it pertains to your property. There are things that need to be taken under consideration with that too, as it relates to the proximity to any kind of septic system. I don't know the exact figures on that but I seem to recall a well head has to have a 75 foot clear circumference from the edge of any septic system or leech field. I suppose there is no guessing as to why that is. The exact offsets you should double check, I think they are also subject to setbacks from lot lines too. There are folks on here in the business that can probably give you a more precise answer than I can.

[DickR]

You can find out a lot about state rules pertaining to septic systems and water wells here:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../ssb/index.htm

I note the site also addresses discharge of backwash from water treatment facilities in residences. You can jump to that from the site above or just go here:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...dwgb-22-17.pdf

[skibum]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

One thing to look at and this is REALLY important. If you look at a house that happens to have a brine based water softener installed, or have one installed do not under any circumstances have them drain into a septic system. It will destroy it. When I put mine in I dug a dry well to drain it into in the back yard. Now I have no idea if that is "legal" per say but draining it in your septic system will lead to premature failure. There are other methods to soften water, but they can be significantly more expensive.

I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.

Hi Maxum,

I am curious where this REALLY important information came from. I started my water treatment career in the 80's and am often asked if brine discharge from a water softener can damage a septic system. To date, I haven't found any evidence that it does (although "some experts" are sometimes quoted as saying that it does). In fact many studies suggest that the additional sodium helps to promote bacterial growth. Further, the additional calcium discharged has been shown to aid the ability of certain soils in performing their duties on our doodies. There are currently over 30 million households in the United States with water softeners treating their well water. I don't think that very many have dry wells. This is not to say that dry wells aren't a viable option. If the septic system was undersized to begin with, they would be recommended. A water softener discharges about the same amount of water as a top loading washing machine and less than most dishwashers.

Of course, if you can do a google search and come up with some evidence to support your claims, I will humbly stand corrected.

[TheProfessor]

Ah, the dug well.

Some have had excellent usage with a dug well. Used by some for many years. Spring fed? Well, could be. Water table could be high and natural. Nothing wrong with a dug well. For a few, a long dry Summer can lessen the water in the dug well. But even artesian wells do go dry.

Drilled well and artesian well are the same as far as I can see. Although 50 years ago most of the artesian wells were done by "pounders". I think that there is only one "pounder" left in all of New Hampshire. Pounders, they say do a better job. But take much longer.

Someone above stated to get this done in the purchase and sale agreement. If that can be done then get a drilled/artesian well completed before purchase.

I have had 3 wells drilled/artesian not on same property of course. Be forewarned and do some homework about well drillers. Most are honest. Been around for decades. Have a perfect reputation. So keep that in mind with this story. I had a retired elderly contractor do some digging for me. He was a retired well driller. But he kept one tractor/backhoe and did smaller digging jobs. No well drilling at the time I spoke with him. I mentioned to him my first artesian drilled well here in the Lakes Region. I was uninformed at the time. The well driller (not the retired guy) kept drilling and drilling and drilling. And of course charging me by the foot. "No water" he kept telling me day after day. He did eventually find water. But it was quite nerve racking with phone calls from well driller to me asking me what "I" should do. Should I tell him to keep drilling or should he stop and begin all over again in a different spot? That's what he asked me. Of course, I must pay for every foot in every hole water or no water.

Now when I told this story to the retired well driller he just laughed out loud. He could not contain himself. "Powered cement" was his response. I asked what does that mean. His story was that all/some/few well drillers keep powered cement hidden and that if they hit water on the first day - they can't make enough money on that well. So they must drill for at least 3 days. The powered cement goes down the well to prevent water from flowing. I was incredulous. He is making up this story, right? OK. This true story is over 25 years old. Well drilling equipment has vastly improved over the years. Drill bits are sharper faster and last longer today. Was this old retired well driller making up this story? He was not drilling a well for me. Maybe he had a twisted sense of humor.

But what I have done since is obtain a fixed price for a drilled/artesian well for all subsequent wells. You had best read up on flow rates and such. All of my fixed price wells have operated flawlessly. Very few well drillers will give you a fixed price though. Read the contracts that most well drillers offer you. Most guarantee nothing. And you must pay for every foot whether there is water found or not. With a fixed price, you don't pay unless water is found. And the well driller provides all underground pipes and inside home tanks.

Was that old retired well driller telling me a ficticious story . . . or not?

[CateP]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Some have had excellent usage with a dug well. Used by some for many years. Spring fed? Well, could be. Water table could be high and natural. Nothing wrong with a dug well.

I wonder...if there is a good water supply near the surface (as this dug well implies) would a drilled well need to go down very far to get to water? If all those well drillers are looking for is a water source, couldn't they find it fairly near the surface?

This is probably a geology question, huh?

[SIKSUKR]

That's a great question Cate that I've never pondered. My dug well has been flawless since the house was built in the early 70's. My neighbor built a house 100 ft from my well and drilled his. I don't know how deep it is but I do know he didn't like the water. Mine is great. FWIW

[RLW]

There are several types of drilled wells. I do not know all the different names, but the one that most people refer to is an artesian well which is a well that they drill looking for ledge and veins of water going through it. One very seldom locates ledge close to the surface. They have what they call a gravel packed well which is also drilled but doesn't need to go so deep. I have heard that these can collapse and needs to re-drilled to clear it. I have no idea why this is a good well but many people choice to have them. It may have something to do with cost. When one digs a sallow dug well they hope that they do not hit the ledge and/or large boulders and depend on the water coming usually from deeper in the ground and being forced up towards the surface. Most dug wells are feed from the bottom of the well and not the sides.
I am sure others will comment on this and correct me, but I'm just stating the information that has been passed onto me over the past 60 years.

[SIKSUKR]

My well is about 18 feet deep and has concrete "tiles", or rings that are stacked on top of each other. The bottom is open to the ground.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

My well is about 18 feet deep and has concrete "tiles", or rings that are stacked on top of each other. The bottom is open to the ground.

Yep, that's new modern stuff and the average depth. The old wells back on the farm were lined with built up field stone and took sometime to build one as they were laid just so, so they would not collapse. Then they put either a wooden top on them or form them and pour about a 4" concrete slab on the top with a hole in the center to drop the bucket on a rope or chain down to haul the water up or they installed a hand pump.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by CateP

I wonder...if there is a good water supply near the surface (as this dug well implies) would a drilled well need to go down very far to get to water? If all those well drillers are looking for is a water source, couldn't they find it fairly near the surface?

This is probably a geology question, huh?

Apples and oranges.

Surface water is completely different source than water found in artesian/drilled well. I am not a geologist so some professionals can chime in on this one.

My last fixed price well - the well driller went down about 1,000 feet.

Surface water. In the Spring parts of my yard are wet with water as water table is high in Spring. But it does dry as seaon progresses.

Dug wells are fine and people have had them for decades at some homes. But some, if not tightly sealed do get an occaisional animal in that will drown. And if an exceptionally dry Summer some run low on water. Dug wells are much much less expensive. And on the plus side of dug wells many conserve water much more.

On another note. Years ago. There was a person selling his home in Lakes Region. This nice home had an artesian/drilled well. But it had gone dry. So what the seller did was hire a water tanker to come and fill up the well. So showing the home, the all faucets worked fine. After sale and when people moved in the well went dry again. Then the lawsuits began. The new owner did eventually win. But it was long and drawn out. This story was in all the local papers a few/many years ago. Buyer Beware.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

And then there is hydro fracting. My sister-in-law had a well that was good for maybe about a gallon a minute and would go dry in the summer. After the hydro fracting process, they had 10+ gallons per minute and never went dry again.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by skibum

Hi Maxum,

I am curious where this REALLY important information came from. I started my water treatment career in the 80's and am often asked if brine discharge from a water softener can damage a septic system. To date, I haven't found any evidence that it does (although "some experts" are sometimes quoted as saying that it does).

I agree with you up to a point. And that point is the volume of water that is discharged. It has nothing to do with the brine itself (although, as you point out, there are "some" people who say so -- but are never identified or sourced). But if the discharge volume of water is too much for the septic, then damage could occur from the overflow. For example, if you have a system that was perced for 3-bedrooms, and you have a family of 8, you might be at the limit (or even over) for the septic. So if you then add a water softener that backwashes every 4 days, you would definitely be in trouble.

But again -- it has nothing to do with the brine itself, although that's what is used to scare people.