Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.

Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

The actions you describe, if done in a court of law, would have resulted in Bird racking up even more charges and would not have helped his case one bit. If you read the transcripts from the case, and especially the sentence delivered by the judge, it is obvious that even the judge has a problem with it because it is a MANDATORY minimum sentence by NH RSA. The judge agrees that Bird is guilty but has a real problem with the mandated sentence vs. what he (the judge) considers an appropriate sentence. (Remember, the real purpose of a sentence isn't just to punish for a crime; it's to separate the criminal from society for isolation and rehabilitation.)

It shouldn't have taken Bird going to jail for 3-6 years to prove the point that there's a problem with the mandatory sentence, as it allows no autonomy for the judge in the decision process.

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

But you can't wave a gun at someone who, for the past 5-10 minutes has refused to leave your property and even said "F-U" to you, without spending a minimum of 3 years in jail.

Something is waaaayyyyy outta wack here.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

And don't forget, FIREWORKS

[Heaven]

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he couldn't face (voluntarily)?

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he could face (voluntarily)?

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
I'll stand beside and support a man or woman who fights for their beliefs, long before I'll stand beside a man or woman who rolls over and plays dead at the 1st chance to save their a$$, because it it the easy way out

[Pineedles]

MarkinNH you got it so right! It's all about integrity! There are people like Ward Bird, and there are people like the critics of him for not taking the deal here on this thread. I have never faced Ward's decision that he had to make, but I hope I would have as much integrity as he did.

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.

That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Heaven

That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

So do you believe his lack of taking the stand is reason for you to cast doubt on his guilt or innocence?

It was discussed previously that if he took the stand, the prior incident with the shooting of the stump would have been fair game. It's possible his lawyer advised him not to take the stand believing the State of NH could not prove their case.

You could take Mother Theresa and make her look like a gang member witht the right prosecuter (think Duke Lacrosse). When you take the stand, it's very easy to paint someone in a bad light as so many things are fair game.

[Heaven]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I'm missing something here. Where does the 2 years come from? I was under the impression if you had a felony conviction you lost it for life. If he took the plea he would have, in effect, have a felony conviction.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

There are people who have been wrongly convicted of rape for one or two decases and turned down parole as it would require them to admit to the crime and show remorse.

I guess it depends on how strong your personal convictions are.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I am no judge, attorney or professor of the law nor do I know the details of the plea bargain but I believe that to have taken the plea bargain or be found guilty, Ward was loosing his right to own and possess firearms for life either way. A felon is a felon. Ward's decision was based on seeking the truth not in attempt to save his right to posses firearms.
My son, due to certain stupidity's in his younger life and due to his minor criminal record is not even "legally" allowed in my home due to the fact that there are firearms in my home. He cannot even "legally" ride in my truck for the same reason.
His legal rights as to firearms ownership or even being in a location where there are firearms, are gone for the rest of his life.

[Heaven]

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Heaven

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

[Lakesrider]

Why? For reasons like this. That happen everyday in this country.



If only this were Texas....Ward would be a free man.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

Bird doesn't have to answer that question; it's his RIGHT.

It's every American's right.

The better question is: why do we have a law with a minimum sentence like this on the books?

[Lakesrider]

I meant that in Texas he probably would not have been given a sentence as the one he got. They are a little different down there as far as guns go.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Hey FLL, great question. I have the same one. I cannot understand why he wouldn't have opted for a 1911 instead. Clearly a superior choice IMHO.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

Look who's talking! intelligent

[MarkinNH]

Oh Man. One of the few times I forget to use spellchecker before I submit, I get nailed.
Oh well. Live and learn.

[Newbiesaukee]

As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school)

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school)

FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Rusty

FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.

Has FLL ever made a correct use of its', its, or it's?

[Bigstan]

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bigstan

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!

Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA.

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA.

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!

Eh - I'll stick with a Kimber.

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

agree..

Both SIGs I have owned actually broke at the range (220,226)

I know some swear by them, but way overpriced for the quality IMO.

Kimbers are my shooters, Glocks are my tools.

BLA-BLA-BLA-BLA,,

Do you have anything that could help Ward Bird and his family moving forward?

[John A. Birdsall]

I read todays Union Leader 1-14-11 and they had an article on Bird. Seems to me that they gave hims some just desert