building Winni Sailing

[jrc]

To summarize:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
LWSA through donations or mortgage

Who will own the building?
LWSA as long as they are there

Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
No, maybe a token fee

Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
LWSA through fees and donations

Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Yes

Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
LWSA

Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?
LWSA has insurance


I don't see anything that looks bad

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

I don't see anything that looks bad

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

Do some research. It is also called a "Floating Breakwater" and they come in many different styles.

I would think you would be putting all your weight behind this. It really sounds like an asset to the Lake.

Photo is not even realated.

[fatlazyless]

What's the relevance of the above photo? It's not a photo of Ellacoya.

What would be real good would be a large, high definition aerial photo that shows Ellacoya and its' next door neighbor, Lake Shore Park. Helloooooo, any local aerial photographers out there???
.......
Reading the newspapers, you learn about repair items at NH state parks like worn out roofs and unpainted buildings due to lack of money. Ellacoya charges four dollars/person to get into the swim beach area, and $47/night to rent a campsight with utilities hookup for an rv. Looking at the rest room buildings in the swim area side, and the rv area side, all the fixtures look like they were new in 1965, but have been maintained and still provide good use.

It's my prediction that there's plenty different people in the area who will step up the plate, and connect with a donation, whatever they can afford, to help make the new public sailing center, and new public boat launch area get built. By building it based on lots of small local donations, that will help to keep it connected with the local community!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal? If you read my post again you will see I addressed costs, ownership and liability. You should assume my conclusion was based on those topics.

I did not address the impacts to the shoreline of North Carolina. I'm not sure why it's relevent.

I'm sure you are not suggesting that our crack state environmental people would allow someone to build a structure into Lake Winnipesaukee that causes harm to the lake or its users?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal?

1) To understand it all, the proposal is not complete.

2) Of course I favor sailing, but they're training 200 sailors a year. After only a few years, this will result in too many sailboats on the lake—and use up all the wind.

3) Since you know it's North Carolina, then you did some research. A wave-fence is a poor descriptor, and accuracy can't be found. Even described as a floating breakwater, there is nothing to indicate just what it is.

Again, to Mr. Mullen, it is still unknown just what a wave fence is.

3) While on this topic of sailing, I stumbled on the article below. Here, there are a few items—for those who follow the sailing sport.

• Women's sailboat racing.

• A racing championship for the Sunfish sailboat.

• An international sailing race, to be held in NoBozo's home state.

• The Para-Lympics—related to an item mentioned earlier.

[Amanda Callahan] looks forward to joining [team racing] at the 2011 ISAF Team Racing World Championships next August in Ireland. She also hopes to continue sailing the Sunfish competitively. “I am so excited that the Sunfish North Americans are coming to my backyard in Barrington (R.I.),” she mentioned.

The USOC’s Military Paralympic Sailing Clinic at the Newport Naval Base is one of Amanda’s favorite days of the year. “I have the opportunity to give back to people who have given up a lot more for the U.S., and on top of that, it is just a fun day spent with great people.”

Amanda's all-woman team appears below, racing the J-22:

Sunfish-National numbers have since doubled, this is a '96 photo!

[Tobey]

Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.

Hello Tobey,

Here are the answers to your questions -- Most of the LWSA's members own or sail regularly on boats that are on Lake W. Any and all of the sailboats in question are berthed or moored at marinas on the lake or they are berthed or moored at members' private homes. A few are trailered in, but probably less than half a dozen. Before you ask the next logical question. be aware that none of the members' boats or anyone elses' boats will be allowed to be permanently moored or docked at the LWSA's new Sailing Center. On a space available basis, we may allow a member to hook up to a mooring for a few hours, but as you know, you cannot stay overnight on a mooring unless the boat is tethered to the shore. Furthermore, only very shallow draft keel and centerboard boats will be able to even enter the boat basin.

We will be applying for around 30 moorings and we plan to make some of those available for folks coming to the RV Park at Ellacoya. The balance will be used for the Sailing Center's boats, but these are just day boats -- not useful for overnighting. On a space available basis, we may have some room for campers' boats to be tied up to docks in the boat basin.

As you may know, whenever two sailboats are side by side, a race is underway. Most of our organized racing will occur on weekends, but that will generally be in small boats around 15 feet and under and those boats by and large will be racked each night next to our building.

Parking will all take place along the dirt road coming down to the waterfront. There is room there for 75 cars angled in toward Lake Shore Park.

Special events like weddings will be limited to what we need in order to raise enough funds to keep the Sailing Center afloat (pun intended), but any more than what we absolutely need will cut into the use of the facility for its intended purpose and that would not be acceptable.

We have designed the building so we can close up walls on any side we want to make sure noise is kept inder control. We will also agree to shut down the occasional band that might be playing at a very reasonable hour. The alternative is we invite all the campers to join the festivities.

There's no question that an element of good times following a race is a healthy and normal occurrence and there will be those activities from time to time and not just for members. There will also be fund raisers on an occasional basis, but all activities will be carefully controlled so as not to interfere with the campers or the residents of Lake Shore Park. We will expect to be treated the same by Lake Shore Park.

Our facility will only be open for scheduled events and activities. Members and the public will not be able to just drop in for a cocktail or dinner -- this is designed to be a sailing facility, not a yacht club.

As for the Wave Fence, it is being designed and I admit to not having a full sense myself of how it is to be constructed and exactly how it will work, but the goal is to knock down the height of the waves coming in from the North, the Northeast and the Northwest without impacting the flow of sand and silt laden water working its way east and west along the waterfront and some distance out from the beach. I'll let all interested parties know as soon as I know.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.

[Tobey]

Golly Gee Tom, I am getting the impression you will say whatever need be said to get this thru. Campers can use docks and moorings if space is available. We can go to the parties and join the fun. Ok, so now i am a "Wedding Crasher".
Only limited functions and parties. heck there are only 8 or 9 weekends in the summer, so you may only have one or 2 functions??
You will shut down noisy bands. Will you be there for every wedding/function?
Is there central air? If not you will keep all windows closed on a hot summer day/night and let the guests sweat?
I like to fish there as well. Did you know that the brook that feeds that location is a spawning area for lake trout and salmon? How will you impact that?
Again, I applaud the kids part of this. It's the rest that scares me and my fellow campers. I have called and emailed a number of them with regards to what is being planned. Although they love the area if it gets too bad they will just travel elsewhere. The State will loose money. Particulary if you do as you say and end up with a One Dollar a year lease. If that happens one of the most profitable parks in the sysytem will be everthing but that.
I'd be interested in knowing just who it is in the state that has okayed this plan. Or, at a minimum, told you to go forward in the planning statge.
Can you share that info with us?
Thanks again
Your freind
Tobey

[VitaBene]

Tobey, He has answered your questions- you may not like the answers but he has answered them. Please don't try to tell me that the campground is always peaceful and serene. If so, it is unlike any campground I have ever stayed at.

Somehow I think if you and some of your fellow campers decide to find another place to stay, there will be others that will take your spot.

[Tobey]

Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.

[jrc]

I'm a little fuzzy on the docking facilities that are there now. Can people launch boats and dock them now? Is this for the general public or just for people renting a camp site?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jrc

I'm a little fuzzy on the docking facilities that are there now. Can people launch boats and dock them now? Is this for the general public or just for people renting a camp site?

There are no docking facilities there now. There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Bizer does not even list this as a launch on there map.

Dan

[VitaBene]

I do not know Mr Mullen, nor ever spoken with him. I am not a member of his organization, nor much of a sailor (though I have a Laser).

I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail.

As a design professional (security consultant), I have been involved in hundreds of construction projects. Mr Mullen has answered the questions that can be answered at this time. It appears to me that they are still very much in the conceptual design phase. As OCD noted, the other questions cannot be reasonably answered yet because the design has not evolved to even the design development phase, let alone construction documents phase.

Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I do not know Mr Mullen, nor ever spoken with him. I am not a member of his organization, nor much of a sailor (though I have a Laser).

I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail.

As a design professional (security consultant), I have been involved in hundreds of construction projects. Mr Mullen has answered the questions that can be answered at this time. It appears to me that they are still very much in the conceptual design phase. As OCD noted, the other questions cannot be reasonably answered yet because the design has not evolved to even the design development phase, let alone construction documents phase.

Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.

Hello Vita Bene,

I would like to be in contact with you. Please e-mail me at [email protected] with an e-mail address. Thanks

Tom Mullen

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail...Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.

Perhaps Mr. Mullen has discussed instruction for your kids.

Excellence in sailing is complicated, and racing among sailboats even more so. The 15-year-old is unlikely to take up this study and a Laser is also not the boat to begin this study. IMHO.

Study of both racing and sailing needs to be nourished from an earlier age—and even 12 is borderline-late. While I understand the need for "befriending", one should use the "bully-pulpit" that is Parenting, and actually encourage sailing instruction.

In our culture, the spirit of competition remains a healthy one, and one cannot learn it too young.

JMHO.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Perhaps Mr. Mullen has discussed instruction for your kids.

Excellence in sailing is complicated, and racing among sailboats even more so. The 15-year-old is unlikely to take up this study and a Laser is also not the boat to begin this study. IMHO.

Study of both racing and sailing needs to be nourished from an earlier age—and even 12 is borderline-late. While I understand the need for "befriending", one should use the "bully-pulpit" that is Parenting, and actually encourage sailing instruction.

In our culture, the spirit of competition remains a healthy one, and one cannot learn it too young.

JMHO.

Agreed on the competition aspect of life and its importance in our culture. They are both heavily involved in Moultonborough Academy sports including baseball, volleyball, alpine and nordic skiing so I am not too concerned about that. I will note that my 15 yo son has taken up the sport of girl chasin' so boating is on the back burner!

We have led both kids to the proverbial "sailing water" but neither have embraced it. We will see, but I agree, the older they get the less likely they are to pick it up.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Dan

My boat doesn't have 4wd so I guess I'm out.It does sound like I'd be fine launching my PWC with my 4wd though.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

There are no docking facilities there now. There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Bizer does not even list this as a launch on there map.

Dan

Thank god..

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.

I believe you mean Mr. "Bene" if we are getting so nit picky.

What is the significance if they do know each other?

Why would it matter if he was part of the sailing club? Does this make his opinion any less or more valid?

Fair and Reasonable? From my understanding the planning phase is still underway... How is it fair and reasonable to ask what policy will be on air conditioning and windows being open for functions?

While you may have concerns with the impact of the facility I don't think it is prudent to question the organizations intentions on bringing a great activity to the lake and the means in which to do it. This sounds to be a very well thought out and planned facility that takes into account its surroundings and asthetics to the lake and its region.

I think it is you who are trying to find any issue with Mr. Mullen's responses that have been very well thought out and answered to the best extent possible at this point in the process.

I am sure your "large group of campers" that you represent will not be inconvenienced to the extent that you are portraying.

So lets try to keep the questions civil and on target. I think Mr. Mullen has done a very good job in this thread trying to answer each and everyone's concerns, even though many comments could have been viewed as less then inviting.

[ishoot308]

I think Mr. Mullen has done an excellent job of DIRECTLY answering all questions and concerns asked of him pertaining to the sailing center in a very courteous manner. I commend him in his responses. And no, I am not a member or have any affiliation to the LWSA nor do I own a sailboat.

Dan

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.

Hello Tobey,

I have tried to answer all of your question, but there was no response to my last post. Are you satisfied with those answers and/or do you have any more questions or concerns I can address at this time. Thanks for involving yourself in the dialogue.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[ApS]

1) Mr. Bean:

Alpine and Nordic skiing is especially damaging to young joints and limbs. (I know ).

Without intervention, those problems don't improve with age, and I'll wager many here on this forum can attest to that. Many here already have mentioned joint surgeries.

Just down the street from Gunstock's ski-slopes is an orthopedic clinic!

2) Mr. Mullen has stated that "any two sailboats is a race": Having vanquished many an "advantaged" boat, I can agree with that.

Try buying a second Laser, then "Lead By Example".

I guarantee you will eventually lose any advantage you claim through "Age and Experience".

3) Mr. Mullen:

There is no shoreline more difficult to sail from, than one that faces into Winnipesaukee's prevailing wind. Expect beginning sailors—especially—to damage every sailboat under this circumstance.

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Mr. Bean:

Alpine and Nordic skiing is especially damaging to young joints and limbs. (I know ).

Without intervention, those problems don't improve with age, and I'll wager many here on this forum can attest to that. Many here already have mentioned joint surgeries.

Just down the street from Gunstock's ski-slopes is an orthopedic clinic!

2) Mr. Mullen has stated that "any two sailboats is a race": Having vanquished many an "advantaged" boat, I can agree with that.

Try buying a second Laser, then "Lead By Example".

I guarantee you will eventually lose any advantage you claim through "Age and Experience".

3) Mr. Mullen:

There is no shoreline more difficult to sail from, than one that faces into Winnipesaukee's prevailing wind. Expect beginning sailors—especially—to damage every sailboat under this circumstance.

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?

Hello Acres Per Second,

You are absolutely correct that beginning sailors would have a degree of difficulty sailing off a lee shore and oftentimes, Ellacoya is just that when the winds are strong out of the north or the northwest. To evaluate this issue regarding Ellacoya, nearly every morning and sometimes in the afternoons as well, as I travelled between Glendale and my home on Welch Island, I buzzed down to Ellacoya to give consideration to this matter. During the summer months when we are teaching the kids how to sail, it turns out, at least this most recent summer, that northwest was not the predominant wind direction. Winds this past summer, especially during July and August when our Youth Sailing School is in session, were out of the south and the west far more often than from the northwest making Ellacoya a very sheltered sailing venue.

It appears that during the fall, the predominant wind pattern shifts to the northwest and we will have to deal with this reality as we structure our approach to sailing instruction. In the fall, we will be teaching adults more often than not and there will be times that we may not be able to risk taking inexperienced sailors in boats off the moorings and out of the boat basin.

Fortunately the lake bottom all along Ellacoya is sandy and pretty shallow so when and if a boat does go aground, getting the small, light boats we use upright is not an especially difficult task.

To confirm my observations, I downloaded the wind data from the Laconia Airport for the period from May 1st theough the middle of October and there were only five days during that entire period when the data suggested we would have to curtail operations for Youth Sailing and only therr of those were during the months the school is in session.

These are realities we can live with as the pro's at Ellacoya far outweigh the con's. Thanks for weighing in on the issues and please keep your comments and or concerns coming so we can be sure to cover all the possible issues during these planning stages.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[Tobey]

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face? [/QUOTE]


It faces directly into the North West - west wind.

Almost everytime I RV there I see this nasty wind at one time or another.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?

It faces directly into the North West - west wind.

Almost everytime I RV there I see this nasty wind at one time or another.[/QUOTE]

Hello Tobey,

You're right! The wind that comes out of the north by northwest toward Ellacoya can be very strong and there is a pretty good fetch so that when it's windy from that direction, the waves are also pretty high.

Using the data from the Laconia Airport weather station and from personal observations during the period from May 1st through October 16th, I came up with twelve days between 8:00 am to 8:00 pm, the normal operating hours that the new Sailing Center would be open and that sailors might be out on the water, that I would put into the category of unsafe and imprudent to be out on the water unless the sailor(s) are very competent. Of those twelve days, five were days that we would be flying the No Sailing Today Flag.

So, five days out of 199 days, or 2.5% of the 2010 sailing season, we would not have allowed the Sailing Center's boats to be out on the water. For nine additional days during this same period, or 4.5% of the sailing season, we would have required proof of competency before the Sailing Center's boats could have left the docks.

During the period that the Sailing School normally operates from late June through late August, there were three days that it was too windy out of the northwest (315 degrees) around to the northeast (45 degrees) to go out on the water if the school had been functioning at Ellacoya. Fortunately, the waters around Ellacoya are pretty well sheltered when the winds blow heavily from the east (90 degrees) around through the south all the way to the west-northwest (290 degrees).

Because we have been operating for nearly thirty years out of Inner Smith Cove at Fay's Boatyard, we have developed fairly ingenious ways of getting from those waters out to where there is wind by towing our sailboats in a chain using a power boat. There may be times at Ellacoya when we may have to tow the boats up into the lee of Welch Island or around the point and down to the waters off Ames Farm Inn to get to waters where the wind allows us to teach the students effectively.

I assure you that we have weighed these types of issues carefully before making a decision to move to Ellacoya. Where we sail now borders on being dangerous for the youngsters because of boat traffic. The waters off Ellacoya are not within a passage zone and are not, therefore, heavily traveled. The areas around Varney Point, Lockes Island and Belknap Point are an accident waiting to happen.

Over the years, because of inclement weather, sometimes too much wind and occasionally, no wind, we have learned how to use these down times by operating in a classroom format with a chalkboard, photos, a model boat, a full sized Opti right in the room, DVD's and ropes for tying knots. Bad weather days don't go to waste in the LWSA's Youth Sailing School.

Because it's so shallow at Ellacoya, we will be able to teach the little ones in our fleet of Optimist Prams with an instructor standing in the water right next to the boats without having to follow them around in a chase boat -- a novel approach that I have seen work very effectively in the British Virgin Islands. The kids actually sail in a tight circle right around the instructors getting constant tips on sail trim and various maneuvers.

Ellacoya has its drawbacks we will learn to live with and it has advantages we will exploit to the betterment of our programs. It is our conclusion that the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks and it is our goal to be in full operation by July of 2012.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[Lucky1]

I think my daughter took up sailing around age 15.

[Tobey]

Tom, I am curious. Not being from the region I do not know of all the the other potential spots on the lake that would/could accomadate your program. I do understand the lake is very very large. Have you looked elswhere?
I am not against the kids sailing program, it's just the fact I am having a hard time dealing with the thought this park may not be as enjoyable for us RV folks due to continual traffic on the east side road to beach and noise associated with functions that may go on. Guess you do need them (functions) to support your cause.

Thanks for listening and replying. Maybe this is not so bad as I find myself searching other RV opportunites in New England. Maybe I'll try the Ocean parks.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a suggestion: While the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park charges $47/night, the US Forest Service operates 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest in NH and just over the border, in Maine, that cost $16/night, plus further discounts (senior-65 pass or something) are available. While the WMNF Campgrounds do not have any utility hookups like water-sewer-electricity-cable, some have showers and toilets w/ running water, and all have campsites with a picnic table, campfire pit, parking for two vehicles, composting toilets, trash dumpsters, potable water, volunteer campground supervisors on-site, and Forest Service law enforcement (cops), plus the locations were picked for their highly desirable geography such as a view, river, lake etc.

So, what's not to like......$16-federal....or $47-state?

In addition, the federal campgrounds are exempt of the State of NH, 9% lodging & meals tax, which applies to State RV Campgrounds like Ellecoya....because they are federal.

http://www.newhampshire.com/outdoors...tn-forest.aspx

....

If you want a campground on a big water lake, the State of Maine has a good one on Sebago Lake, about one hour from Moultonborough.

http://www.maine.gov/cgi-bin/online/...search_info.pl and scroll down to Sebago Lake State Park for a 250 rv campsite, State of Maine campground, within a 1400-acre state park on Sebago lake, which is a lake that is a little larger in area than Lake Winnipesaukee. ...just a thought...

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Tom, I am curious. Not being from the region I do not know of all the the other potential spots on the lake that would/could accomadate your program. I do understand the lake is very very large. Have you looked elswhere?
I am not against the kids sailing program, it's just the fact I am having a hard time dealing with the thought this park may not be as enjoyable for us RV folks due to continual traffic on the east side road to beach and noise associated with functions that may go on. Guess you do need them (functions) to support your cause.

Thanks for listening and replying. Maybe this is not so bad as I find myself searching other RV opportunites in New England. Maybe I'll try the Ocean parks.

Hello Tobey,

Your thoughts, comments and concerns, presented in your recent post in a very constructive manner by the way, deserve a similiar response. The possibility that our use of the Ellacoya waterfront might disturb occupants of the RV facility is very much in the forefront of our minds. You are already there and we're new on the scene. Just that fact alone means we have an obligation to go to considerable lengths to minimize and hopefull prevent any disruption of your enjoyment of the campground.

The LWSA will bring change to Ellacoya. We are cognizant of this fact and we must, therefore, do all that we can to have those changes be net positive. It would be ludicrous for us to try to pretend that the heightened level of activity created by our presence will be welcomed by everyone. As you point out, and as I have already anticipated, there will be a lot more vehicles going up and down the east side road that borders one row of the RV sites. This means we will need to consider improvements to and along that roadway to make sure we don't negatively impact the use of the sites. Here are some of the measures I am considering employing, obviously, subject to approval from DRED:

1. Dust stirred up by cars will be a problem. I am hopeful we can get that roadway hard surfaced. This is about a $45,000 expense and I will be trying to get this donated by one or more of the local firms in the paving business. Another option could be surfacing the roadway with crushed stone. Regardless of the cost factors involved, the dust stirred up by passing cars during hot, dry periods will have to be addressed and effectively dealt with.

2. The visual aesthetics of having cars passing by a campsite on a regular basis also leave something to be desired. I believe we can reduce the visual impact of this reality by placing a fence down the length of the wooden guardrail that's there now. Again, this will be a substantial cost item
that could bust our budget, but it is needs to be addressed.

3. Functions in the building will be a necessary evil as the income from same will be a crucial factor in the affordability of the complex. For the sake of the residents of Lake Shore Park and the RV sites as well, the LWSA will have to curtail the hours of and the number of attendees at such events to be sure the impact of such things as bands and outdoor events do not unduly encroach on the peace of neighboring sites. This will be a multi-faceted sailing center and holding functions will be incidental to the use of the facility -- necessary, but limited in scope and frequency.

I am a bit troubled by your comment that you are starting to look elsewhere for other RV sites to visit out of concern that the character of Ellacoya, once our sailing center is located there, may not be to your liking. I believe the LWSA's presence there will change some of the site's character, but I also believe those changes will be positive in nature and not intrusive. I believe the visual impact of what we'll be doing will be interesting and enjoyable. Sitting at a picnic bench along the seawall to the west of our complex and watching our Sailing School students learning how to sail will be fun and visually enjoyable. I am confident that the residents of Lake Shore Park will learn, not only to accept the presence of the new Sailing Center, but they will embrace it as a fundemental improvement in the quality of the Park's residents' lives, especially the Park's youngsters.

For many years, the LWSA has been on the lookout for other sites along the lake for this new facility. Even now, as we move forward with the design and approval process, we welcome any thoughts or suggestions as to alternative sites. Because the costs of building the complex will be daunting, the cost of purchasing a site would have to be deminimis. The location pretty much in the middle of the lake on a north/south basis is also strategically important and Ellacoya fits that bill perfectly.

Tobey, give us a chance to get established and up and operating before you conclude you need to go elsewhere with your RV for peace and quiet. One of the reasons the LWSA likes the site is for its natural beauty and its tranquility. There will be a noticeable increase in the amount of activity once we're up and running, but there will also be extended periods when that level of activity will be very restrained and minimal. At all times, I promise you, we will be taking our neighbors' desires for peaceful enjoyment of their properties into consideration and acting accordingly!

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.

[fatlazyless]

Hello Tom....so's I got a question for you.....if I want to mail a fifty dollar check to help pay to build the new Winnipesaukee sailing school at Ellacoya....then where does it get mailed.....and to what should the check be made payable to?