Irritating loud boat

[Turtle Boy]

Take heed, those who might be willing to ignore what others on the lake might find offensive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate. Noise indeed was what brought us to our present state of legislative affairs on the lake. And as stated earlier, stay sober as speed or excessive noise might be what gets you pulled over or reported.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Noise indeed was what brought us to our present state of legislative affairs on the lake.

What about safety? I recall somebody mentioning something about safety bringing us to our present state of legislative affairs? So confused

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Ryan

What about safety? I recall somebody mentioning something about safety bringing us to our present state of legislative affairs? So confused

It's the "agenda of the day" concept". Changes with the wind. Kind of like a blue plate special at a restaurant.

[LIforrelaxin]

So as I started to spread some facts into this discussion yesterday I though I would finish today... I did a little more looking around to day and found the information I was looking for related to the fly by sound reading and it basis at 50 feet... what I found was this... for a given distance if you increase your distance by that same amount away from a given noise source you decrease the source level by 6 db... hence at 50 ft... you can calculate a 12 db loss at 150 ft. And with the 150 ft rule no boat should be operating at speed closer then 150 feet from you.

Now with a 82 db requirement on a fly by pass at 50 feet... you can see that at 150 feet the sound should be down to 70 db at 150 ft.... Mathematically speaking of course.... now from my previous post... that puts us at the same db level as a normal conversation between two adults doesn't it... hummm even quieter then the traffic in Meredith on the weekends for all that matters....

Now on to some other points here... we are talking about db... sound pressure folks... its what causes the damage... to the ear drums... now how loud something appears is a different story all together, and depends on many many factors... such as... distance, dampening material between you and the device... room for echo.... other ambient noises at the time, etc. etc.....

These folks are the facts of the situation.... If a boat is legal... there is nothing to complain about... Because if you complain about the noise of the boats... you better complain, about the traffic in Meredith, your conversations in your yard... The vacuum cleaner, and your radio.... most people listen to their radio at a db level of around 70 - 80 dbs.....

So here is the deal... There is a existing law... it is sound in more then one way according to everything I can find... If you feel someone has a boat that doesn't conform to the law, talk to the Marine Patrol, they will investigate. Just remember the next time your out on your dock talking in the boat... your neighbor just down the shore front may call the police on you for making to much noise.

[MAXUM]

Now I won't even begin to suggest I'm an expert on the subject here, but to your point LIforrelaxin...

I'll generalize here and say that anything that is capable of making noise would thus be measurable at any particular distance which is what laws stipulate depending on what it is you're talking about. Perception of how loud they are can be relative, and in some cases depending on the situation actually may appear to be magnified. Case in point, look at the hat shell in Boston or my favorite Red Rocks in Colorado. These places one made made, the other God made have acoustical properties that appear to magnify sound. So while from a pure db perspective the noise levels may be considered acceptable in certain cases they could "appear" to be far worse. That is something that the law can't address so it is what it is and certainly not anything the operator of a boat can control. Good bad or indifferent, it's my best stab at a "very" scientific observation based on absolutely no scientific knowledge or theory in said discipline. .... it just sounds good to me!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Now I won't even begin to suggest I'm an expert on the subject here, but to your point LIforrelaxin...

I'll generalize here and say that anything that is capable of making noise would thus be measurable at any particular distance which is what laws stipulate depending on what it is you're talking about. Perception of how loud they are can be relative, and in some cases depending on the situation actually may appear to be magnified. Case in point, look at the hat shell in Boston or my favorite Red Rocks in Colorado. These places one made made, the other God made have acoustical properties that appear to magnify sound. So while from a pure db perspective the noise levels may be considered acceptable in certain cases they could "appear" to be far worse. That is something that the law can't address so it is what it is and certainly not anything the operator of a boat can control. Good bad or indifferent, it's my best stab at a "very" scientific observation based on absolutely no scientific knowledge or theory in said discipline. .... it just sounds good to me!

Maxxum,

You bring up a good point, which is why the law is written the way it is. And why a boat exhaust must be a fixed apparatus. The Marine Patrol can test a boat, record what the system design is... and then if they come back to the boat do to an issue in the future they can look at the system, verify nothing has changed, and either say the boat has been previously been tested and is ok... or say, the system has changed and the boat needs to be retested. By not allowing any switching in the system there is no question as to how the boat was running.

Now as for your acoustical reference to the hat shell and Red Rock, this is not acoustical amplification... The only way to get more power is to add more power. Both venues how ever focus the sound and project it in a direction.... Because the sound is projected correctly in these venues the required input sound to create the projected output is much less then in venues such as the Comcast Center or Meadow Brook.... where the sound is simply released into the air. These venues don't Produce louder sounds they just require less amplified input to deliver the required sound. They are also both acoustically sound meaning that they project the complete sound spectrum and don't absorb part of it thus project another area unfairly.

Now what happens in a boat... or with the cry of a loon is that sound is echo across the water much like it is in a canyon... the water is a hard surface and the sound just travels along it, until it hits something that absorbs it. Such as other sound waves, the shoreline, etc. The reason a single boat all by itself sounds so much louder then multiple boats on a busy day, is that the single set of noise waves travel further with out getting disturbed or canceled out.

Folks once again do some research this information is all available quite easily... Bottom line once again there is an already appropriate law on the books that fully handles the situation and is completely adequate... If you think you have a problem... report it...

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So as I started to spread some facts into this discussion yesterday I though I would finish today... I did a little more looking around to day and found the information I was looking for related to the fly by sound reading and it basis at 50 feet... what I found was this... for a given distance if you increase your distance by that same amount away from a given noise source you decrease the source level by 6 db... hence at 50 ft... you can calculate a 12 db loss at 150 ft. And with the 150 ft rule no boat should be operating at speed closer then 150 feet from you.

Now with a 82 db requirement on a fly by pass at 50 feet... you can see that at 150 feet the sound should be down to 70 db at 150 ft.... Mathematically speaking of course.... now from my previous post... that puts us at the same db level as a normal conversation between two adults doesn't it... hummm even quieter then the traffic in Meredith on the weekends for all that matters....

Now on to some other points here... we are talking about db... sound pressure folks... its what causes the damage... to the ear drums... now how loud something appears is a different story all together, and depends on many many factors... such as... distance, dampening material between you and the device... room for echo.... other ambient noises at the time, etc. etc.....

These folks are the facts of the situation.... If a boat is legal... there is nothing to complain about... Because if you complain about the noise of the boats... you better complain, about the traffic in Meredith, your conversations in your yard... The vacuum cleaner, and your radio.... most people listen to their radio at a db level of around 70 - 80 dbs.....

So here is the deal... There is a existing law... it is sound in more then one way according to everything I can find... If you feel someone has a boat that doesn't conform to the law, talk to the Marine Patrol, they will investigate. Just remember the next time your out on your dock talking in the boat... your neighbor just down the shore front may call the police on you for making to much noise.

Here's another factor that most people are not aware of, even as a HONDA CIVIC comes tooling up the street toward you... (Actually it's a Self Propelled Sub Woofer.) The Doppler Effect makes sound measurement even more difficult to reliably deal with. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_Effect

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Take heed, those who might be willing to ignore what others on the lake might find offensive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate. Noise indeed was what brought us to our present state of legislative affairs on the lake. And as stated earlier, stay sober as speed or excessive noise might be what gets you pulled over or reported.

There are countless things that may get you pulled over on the lake.

Staying sober on the lake is every boater's responsibility whether they captain the Mount, a performance boat, or a kayak.

[Skip]

I have to agree 100% with Mink Islander's post. Unfortunately his response has now been buried by the repetitious point-counterpoint of several that have repeatedly stated their positions here and in countless other threads.

Here's a suggestion.

While it is apparent that there are several independent thinkers posting here, the vast opinion shared has either come from the SBONH or WINNFABS corner.

The sad thing?

Neither organization has seen fit to keep their websites up to date or more importantly provide an open forum on their sites to allow this discussion to occur on their respective dime.

Nope, both organizations have opted to camp out, free of charge, on Don's door step.

I would respectfully ask that both organizations at a minimum update their respective websites. Then I would hope to see that both organizations implement a comments section on their sites and take this and the veiled but continual speed limits discussions over there.

How about it?

[OCDACTIVE]

Skip,

Sent you a PM

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by Skip

I have to agree 100% with Mink Islander's post. Unfortunately his response has now been buried by the repetitious point-counterpoint of several that have repeatedly stated their positions here and in countless other threads. {snip SBONH vs WINNFABS}
I would respectfully ask that both organizations at a minimum update their respective websites. Then I would hope to see that both organizations implement a comments section on their sites and take this and the veiled but continual speed limits discussions over there.

Excellent points Skip. Repetitious sometimes ridiculous posts smothering the real issues and topics. I perceive that the sides are represented loosely by groups. One is older and more practiced at trying to rationalize their agenda while the other group formed more recently to try to show the fallacies of some propaganda. The former seems to think that the more times and ways they say something the more true it appears. They try to bury and discredit posts by those who like it the way it was. It is very sad how a handful of fabulous people can change the whole complexion of Don's web site.

I'm also 100% with you on updating web pages. Both of the groups mentioned should be current and keep their web presence up to date (as should those green map makers but that's another story also involving speed limit information).

For the record, I don't like very loud boats, cycles, sound systems etc. But there are sound laws in place for that and I put up with the legal noise. Meadowbrook concerts keep me awake at night and I hate it. I do not have a go fast boat but am not troubled by those that do. There were pre-SL laws (150' rule and others) in place to deal with those concerns too. I'm very tired of plodding through almost endless rhetoric to get to the good and meaningful posts.

Thanks Skip. Ever thought of being an arbitrator?