Just what defines a Flatlander

[StephenB]

Reading this thread reminded me of something I read from Country Living, by Lewis Hill of Greensboro, VT: (Rodale Press, 1987)

There's a story of a family that moved from a small town in New Hampshire, on one side of the Connecticut River, to a town on the Vermont side, just six miles away. Their baby girl was six months old at the time. Although she lived the rest of her 93 years in the Vermont home, the minister said at her funeral, "We loved her, even though she wasn't one of us."

Is "flatlander" a derogatory term? I don't know, but the thing I took away from Lewis' story above is that we might want to check our attitudes somewhat, just the same.

By the way, I'm from Mass., and I thought the official spelling was Winnipesaukee. (No, I didn't have to look it up.)

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by StephenB

By the way, I'm from Mass., and I thought the official spelling was Winnipesaukee. (No, I didn't have to look it up.)

Like I said at the beginning of my post with the big list - I didn't write the list - it make the email joke rounds a few years back. I just copied and pasted the thing 'cuz I thought it might lighten up the tone of things... Life is too short to grumble.


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Okay and the soda/tonic/pop thing.... I grew up in Maine... my mom is from Maine but my dad was from Holderness/Sanbornton area... we called it soda when we were at restaurants or when we had folks over, but mainly it was called MOXIE.

[jmen24]

Moxie, that is a Maniac thing. My wife is fifth generation Downeaster and they love the stuff. Personally I think it tastes like you bit your tongue.

Now I have never been called it so I cannot speak for how to take being called a flatlander, but I know from my point of view it is not said in a derogatory way. More of a "you ain't from around here, are you fella?" type of thing. I am sure that when I drive in Boston I get a similar label from the locals down there. It is similar to the Maine saying of "you can't get there from heya." You really can get there from heya, we are just not going to tell you how, you'll have to figure that out on your own.

There are however derogatory terms that exist, but they are more state specific and those quotes are the ones that truely describe the bad apples that most natives do not like to see coming down the street.

I could understand why someone would not want to be called out for not having the same "wood" smarts as say a local, but really that is all it boils down to. Maybe instead of studyin so much, you should have spent some time tippin cows and chasin chickens.

Anyway, I would not read into it anymore than face value. Some of our backgrounds are very different. Just think about what comes to your mind when you see someone walk into the store in front of you looking like they just crawled out from under the hen house.

[CrawfordCentury]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Moxie, that is a Maniac thing. My wife is fifth generation Downeaster and they love the stuff. Personally I think it tastes like you bit your tongue.

Sorta right on the first count. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base on the second count.

Part two first. Moxie's is delicious. Period. True, it's an acquired taste not everyone has the good sense to acquire. Sorta like feta cheese, black liquorice, or the vocal stylings of Tom Waits. Purely for the initiated.

As far as it being a Mainer thing, that's more a matter of cultural appropriation.



Originally, it was called Moxie Nerve Food. It was a brain stimulant, one amongst many of the ole tyme patent medicines of the gad light era. Think along the lines of Dr. Hofstetters Celebrated Stomach Bitters or Dr. Kilmer's Swamp Root Cure for Liver, Kidney and Bladder Woes and you've got the idea. (As an aside, the aqua bottles were manufactured at the Lyndeborough Glass Works, which was over near Peterborough).

But with the passage of the FDA in 1906, Moxie, Coke, various sarsaparillas, and others sought to rebrand themselves as soft drinks. Maken the transition from brain tonic to "soda pop."

Which is why us of a geezerly mindset still call carbonated softdrinks "tonic." It's what they once was.

[WinnDixie]

Well, this thread draws me right out of my little corner! Another geezer here (geezette??? can a lady be a geezer?). My question is answered: definitely NOT flatlanders--we: my husband LOVES Moxie...always some waiting for him when we come up...trust me-- you do NOT get it here!! Me ,not so much, but I'm with you on feta cheese and black licorice! Anyhow, Moxie is seriously a New England thing...and that is an awesome bottle you have! We also remember when we were kids it was always "tonic"! Tonic was always "wicked good" on a hot day!

[Lucky1]

I would think that "Flatlander" might be those from the flat or mostly flat states near here such as MA, CT, RI as opposed to the mountainous states such as NH, VT, ME. Not that there are not mountains in the flatlander states such as the Berkshires in MA etc.

[MAXUM]

Ya know since when is calling somebody a flatlander "derogatory"? Please, what is with everyone these days having such thin skin? Next thing you know it's going to be considered a racial. Boy I tell ya the lengths to which some take the political correctness is beyond ridiculous.

Hell people call me a redneck all the time and frankly I'm damn proud of it too. If some use that label in an attempt to make it derogatory, well that's their problem, not mine. Afterall they are no doubt a flatlander.

[Newbiesaukee]

I honestly had never heard the term "flatlander" until I read it on the forum. I assumed in NH, it meant someone from somewhere that didn't have mountains (or hills). Although most of the responses to this thread are humerous or informative, the context in which the term seems to be used is NEVER as a compliment. At best, it is geographically desciptive, but its use does most frequently imply some criticsm of the person so described. I guess if the person using the term would be offended to have himself described as one, then the thing speaks for itself.

I avoid terms such as "flatlander" as I do not know how the person so described would interpret it.

Any such description which requires the qualificaton...."but some of my best friends are....." is probably best avoided.

[codeman671]

I was called a flatlander in my post about wanting air conditioning in my island home. Last time I checked wanting AC wasnt something that would put me into the classification of being a flatlander. I like my house cool , whats the big deal? I grew up 45 minutes from the lake (still in NH for those that classify people south of the border as flatlanders) and have never lived out of the state. I am not a tourist or a transplant.

I am a redneck trapped in the life of a yuppie. Not big into politics. I like to ski and boat and I drive a truck. Does this make me a flatlander? I think not.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I am a redneck trapped in the life of a yuppie. Not big into politics. I like to ski and boat and I drive a truck. Does this make me a flatlander? I think not.

Well said. That fits us locals to a tee. The yuppies are telling us when, where and how we can boat and ski. They ruin politics!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Well said. That fits us locals to a tee. The yuppies are telling us when, where and how we can boat and ski. They ruin politics!

It was you that called me the flatlander...

[BroadHopper]

Me bad! Guess I'm more of a local green redneck that likes his windows open. And skiiny dips at night to keep cool!

My yuppy McMansion neighbors with ac called the cops because they can't stand redneck butts shining in the moon!

[Channel Pirate]

A NH native is anyone born in NH that can put up with all the crap that comes with living here year round and hasn't moved away yet.

A Flatlander is anyone born south of were you were born, so Massachusettes fairweather'ers(*Foot-Note) can call people from Rhode Island flatlanders ect..ect.. and pass it on down the megalopolis, so as not to offend the torists and part timers that keep us sales tax free.

* Fairweather'ers are not just from Mass so don't get all wound up when some local calls you that (new slang) if you don't live here and work here you will most likely be sub-catagorized.

I go to Marco Isl. FL in January and they call me "Snowbird"

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I am a redneck trapped in the life of a yuppie. Not big into politics. I like to ski and boat and I drive a truck. Does this make me a flatlander? I think not.

I here you on that one man, I seemed trapped in the same vicious whirlwind myself

[CrawfordCentury]

Originally Posted by WinnDixie

Well, this thread draws me right out of my little corner!

And so, here I am all alonelylike now. At least I've got my dunce cap to keep me company.

Another geezer here (geezette??? can a lady be a geezer?).

No, a lady can not be a geezer. A lady may be a geezelle, should she wish.

My question is answered: definitely NOT flatlanders--we: my husband LOVES Moxie...always some waiting for him when we come up...trust me-- you do NOT get it here!! Me ,not so much, but I'm with you on feta cheese and black licorice! Anyhow, Moxie is seriously a New England thing...and that is an awesome bottle you have! We also remember when we were kids it was always "tonic"! Tonic was always "wicked good" on a hot day!

Not my bottle - nabbed that pic off from the interwbs. Though I do have...well more than a couple pre-FDA antique medicines in my collection, including a couple moxies. Needless to say, Mrs. Crawford's a very understanding lady, putten up with the veritable patent medicine museum we live amongst. She's partial to the big Moxie bottles, which are ideal for bonken me upside the head when I listen to the Tom Waits albums too loud and eat all the feta.

LOL! gotta love the power of moxie. Mere mention alone's defused a contentious discussion on who gets to belong to the "We're from here and you ain't" subject at hand.

[CrawfordCentury]

Since this has morphed into a quasi-moxie thread, here's a link to a vid of a NH Chronicle segment that aired this week. I prefer vids embedded in the thread, but WMUR's web site didn't provide the code. Apologies for making you take the extra step http://www.wmur.com/chronicle/23526620/detail.html#

There's also a group that's called the Moxie Congress. Site: http://www.moxiecongress.org/

It says they got a facebook page too. I don't do facebook, so I haven't been. With my mug, if I were to upload my face into the internets, I'd prolly break the world wide web.

[WinnDixie]

Originally Posted by CrawfordCentury

And so, here I am all alonelylike now. At least I've got my dunce cap to keep me company.

No, a lady can not be a geezer. A lady may be a geezelle, should she wish.

___________________________________
OK, I can live with "geezelle", I guess...sounds like "gazelle", which implies a lot better than it really is, in my case!! Rolls off the tongue as well as "flatlander", too! Bottoms up, you Moxie drinkers! NuGrape for me!

[SIKSUKR]

A flatlander is one thing but I can't stand a flatlander with Moxie!

[Janet]

Originally Posted by CrawfordCentury

Sorta right on the first count. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base on the second count.

Part two first. Moxie's is delicious. Period. True, it's an acquired taste not everyone has the good sense to acquire. Sorta like feta cheese, black liquorice, or the vocal stylings of Tom Waits. Purely for the initiated.

As far as it being a Mainer thing, that's more a matter of cultural appropriation.



Originally, it was called Moxie Nerve Food. It was a brain stimulant, one amongst many of the ole tyme patent medicines of the gad light era. Think along the lines of Dr. Hofstetters Celebrated Stomach Bitters or Dr. Kilmer's Swamp Root Cure for Liver, Kidney and Bladder Woes and you've got the idea. (As an aside, the aqua bottles were manufactured at the Lyndeborough Glass Works, which was over near Peterborough).

But with the passage of the FDA in 1906, Moxie, Coke, various sarsaparillas, and others sought to rebrand themselves as soft drinks. Maken the transition from brain tonic to "soda pop."

Which is why us of a geezerly mindset still call carbonated softdrinks "tonic." It's what they once was.

Love my Moxie. Only way to get Moxie here in Texas is to order online. Did that once but was way too costly...$64.00 a case! It's sometimes hard to find in NH. Have found it at Jo-Jos and Heath's in Center Harbor. Looking forward to my trip in August for the month to drink my fill!

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by CrawfordCentury

Sorta right on the first count. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base on the second count.

Part two first. Moxie's is delicious. Period. True, it's an acquired taste not everyone has the good sense to acquire. Sorta like feta cheese, black liquorice, or the vocal stylings of Tom Waits. Purely for the initiated.

Tom Waits? Moxie? Feta? Liquorice?

You must be my soul mate.... (and don't let Argie see this!)

[Rattlesnake Guy]

I have successfully lubricated a business transaction by agreeing to include 2 cases of moxie on a shipment going to Atlanta. Apparently you can't buy it there. I tried it once, I won't make that mistake again.

[Irish mist]

Throwing the word flatlander around in NH in the 60s & 70s had more of a bite to it when there were 700,000 folks in the whole state, and most of them were born here.....now, not so much. Over 50% of NH residents are from away these days, and there's over 1.3 million people up here. Today flantlander is used as more of a joke, or in a good-natured manner from my experience.

[SAMIAM]

Ok, we've heard from all those who are offended by that word.....but how about us poor locals. We have to put up with all of those "out of staters" who think we all have only one tooth, sit around playing banjo, drinking moonshine and call our fathers "uncle dad"
We have to suffer through the "deliverance Syndrome" every day.....it's not easy........oop's, gotta run, possum pie is almost ready.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

I have successfully lubricated a business transaction by agreeing to include 2 cases of moxie on a shipment going to Atlanta. Apparently you can't buy it there. I tried it once, I won't make that mistake again.

Well Moxie tastes like lubricant so it fitting you used it that way. We all learned to aquire the Moxie taste as kids, Nana would mix a little Moxie and milk. She's 92 and still drinking it!

The whole flatlander, redneck, native thing is about a state of mind, not a state of birth. People don't seem to understand that things can be different and both can be good. Some days you want Moxie, some days you want champagne. Just don't try to change one into the other.

[Misty Blue]

After a heated 3 AM debate at the power plant we decided to look into the term "Moxie".

The advertising slogan was "Ya gott'a try Moxie. A common term for a hard working boy was "That kid's got Moxie".

Which came first, the Moxie or the kid?

When used as the product name it is a noun. When used as a discription of a positive attitude it is an adjective. So here goes...

There was a saying long, long ago that "That kid's got Moxie". It sort of meant that the squirt had a good work ethec and was one to mow lawns, soon to have three others mowing for him and one day would own Pike industries. Yup. That kid's got Moxie.

The adjective however came AFTER the product! I don't know what they put in that stuff (my brother drank it all the time, I was a fresca guy) but it must have given the little guy the spark that put him into high gear.

So the kid's got Moxie and there is no way that he is a flatlander!

PS. I think that the stuff is made in Lowell, MA elevation 64 feet above sea level. Ironic?

Misty Blue

[nvtngtxpyr]

Then again you could always go to the font of all wisdom on the interwebs - Wikiedia:

"Moxie originated as a patent medicine called "Moxie Nerve Food,"[1] which was created around 1876 by Dr. Augustin Thompson. Thompson claimed that it contained an extract from a rare, unnamed South American plant, which had supposedly been discovered by a friend of his, Lieutenant Moxie,[1] who had used it as a panacea. Moxie, he claimed, was especially effective against "paralysis, softening of the brain, nervousness, and insomnia."[1]

After a few years, Thompson added soda water to the formula and changed the product's name to "Beverage Moxie Nerve Food." By 1884 he was selling Moxie both in bottles and in bulk as a soda fountain syrup. He marketed it as "a delicious blend of bitter and sweet, a drink to satisfy everyone's taste."[2]
.
.
.
Through extensive advertising, the neologism "moxie" has entered popular American usage with the meaning "courage, daring, and energy,"[9][10] as in "This guy's got moxie!"

Moxie is closely associated with the state of Maine. Its creator, Dr. Augustin Thompson, was born in Union, Maine. Moxie was designated the official soft drink of Maine on May 10, 2005.[11]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxie

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

I tried it once, I won't make that mistake again.

You and me both, When I moved to Massachusetts from Washington State, all my friends and their families raved about it.... so one day while eating over, I decided what the hell I will give it a shot... I was never so glad that they only gave me a small shot glass full to try.....