High Wind - High Water

Lake Lady 6 · 10-26-2005, 02:52 PM

Winds have been high today and along with the high lake level are causing considerable damage along the shore. Our shore wall is in danger of collapsing as the water (which is usually 5 to 6 feet away from the wall) is splashing over the wall and the walkway to the dock thas been eroded underneath by the constant wave action causing the flagstone to cave in.
The water level is up to dock height next door, ours about 4 inches below dock boards.
When or if there is a drawn down it will help the hundreds of residents along the shoreline and islands. Many residents have put barrels filled with water on top of their docks to hold them down.
There has to be some way to control the level to help control the damage or maybe they can lower our taxes to compensate for dollars lost - the same way they are raised for the view.

GTO · 10-26-2005, 04:20 PM

And to think they don't release enough water to protect people downstream (Lowell, Lawrence along the Merrimack) from having flooding problems. But its ok to flood us..mmmm

RumGuy · 10-26-2005, 05:08 PM

I wouldn't want the responsibility of that decision: In all, everyone here is losing, it's just a matter of balancing, or triage. I am sure that they are running off all of the water that they can without causing EXTENSIVE (which can also be spelled with a P in the middle) damage downstream.

wildwoodfam · 10-26-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

And to think they don't release enough water to protect people downstream (Lowell, Lawrence along the Merrimack) from having flooding problems. But its ok to flood us..mmmm

Actually GTO - the Winnie Dam is being controlled so you don't flood Winnisquam and Silver Lake. Lowell and Lawrence are NOT the chief reasons for flooding up there on Winnie. Why did you pick Lowell and Lawrence anyway....certainly the other cities along the river - Concord, Manchester, Nashua, Haverhill and Newburyport are as important and in danger of being flooded out as Lowell and Lawrence....actually Lowell and Lawrence have a relatively good anti-flood system in place with their own locks and canal and dam systems working just fine - funny how you chose Lowell and Lawrence. (curious)

Frankly GTO one wonders why you have this sense of entitlemen. The same message can be said about waterfront owners as can be said for riverfront owners...you chose to live on the waterfront - and with that come risks, such as FLOODING! Imagine that!

Your statement is niave and ill placed. While it is certainly unfortunate that you may lose a dock (as expensive as that may be for you) this pales in comparison to what could be lost downstream of the Winnie Dam - including massive industry and commerce in all of the cities I listed above should flooding occur! The dams are in place for a reason....to hold back the water!! The dam wasnt built for pleasure!! We downstream are sorry that the water is lapping on your beachfronts and eroding the shoreline. But we are glad that the engineers who operate the dam have a vested interest in the producitivity downriver...and the reasoned experience to protect it!

secondcurve · 10-26-2005, 08:02 PM

Wildwoodfam:

I think GTO's comment was light hearted in nature. Please take it in that context. We are a friendly bunch. No one wants to see anyone flooded!

Resident 2B · 10-26-2005, 09:39 PM

I cut and pasted this from the Dams Bureau web site. Once you read it, you get the feeling them totally understand the situation and are doing all they can to address it.

October 26, 2005 11:45 AM

The discharge at Lakeport Dam (Lake Winnipesaukee) is approx. 2,250 cfs. The level of Lake
Winnipesaukee is nearly 505.20, which is about 10 inches above the normal full summer level.
DES is passing as much flow as possible at Lakeport Dam to both stem the rise in
Winnipesaukee and to prevent, in as much as it is possible, damaging conditions at locations
downstream (Opechee Lake, Winnisquam Lake, Silver Lake and the Winnipesaukee River through
the Towns of Tilton, Northfield, Belmont and Franklin).

Flows along the Winnipesaukee River system WILL remain high for the foreseeable future, as
the storage in Lake Winnipesaukee MUST be passed downstream in advance of any future
precipitatin event. This also means that the levels of all of the lakes listed above will
also remain higher than normal during this process.

webmaster · 10-27-2005, 12:19 AM

Submerged docks like these were a common sight in the Lakes Region today. Check PhotoPost for more pictures of some the effects of the high water.

spotsink · 10-27-2005, 05:09 AM

Judging by the data shown at the link below, output at the Lakeport Dam has been just about maximum for several days. It does not appear they are holding anything back right now...

http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

Old Hubbard Rd · 10-27-2005, 05:41 AM

This is the highest I have ever seen Winnipesaukee. How high have you seen it get???

DRH · 10-27-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Hubbard Rd

This is the highest I have ever seen Winnipesaukee. How high have you seen it get???

The lake is now about 4" below the top of our dock. In July of 1998, the lake was level with the top of the dock.

Remember the "No Wake" restriction during all of the July 4 week that year?

spotsink · 10-27-2005, 11:29 AM

If you look at the graph in the link below it shows two times in the recent past when the lake was higher than it is now: late June of 1998 when it was about 3" higher than todays level and early/mid June of 1984 when it was about 6" higher than today, the 27th of October... I do not know how far back Bizer's data goes but this looks like the third highest level in the lake in the last 20+ years...

http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

GTO · 10-27-2005, 01:55 PM

dear Wildwood,

Just so your curiosity does not keep you up at night, I picked (on) Lowell & Lawrence because......mmmm..I hate towns and cities that begin with the letter "L". Ooops, but I like Laconia...that take care of that theory. Lets try this one, I beleive, that even though I grew up in Lowell for 23 years, that it could use a flood to clean it up....no, thats not fair, my parents still live there. Ok, I got one. I went through Lowell a day before I wrote this and saw that although the river was quite high, it could still go up another 2-3 feet before even coming close to any flood stages. Where the day before that, I was at the lake and saw docks and property underwater.

And Frankly, to the "one that wonders", Unfortunately I do not own lakefront property (imagine that) and fortunately. I am not effected by any high waters. But I see others that are, including people from this forum.

I wish no flooding for anyone, anywhere. It was just an observation but thanks for jumping on board. (I'm starting to like towns with the letter L. Maybe next time I'll name towns that begin with "H")

Is it true that the dam operator at Lakeport (another town with an "L") is from downstream? J/k on that one

Orion · 10-27-2005, 02:48 PM

While this may not be the highest level the lake has ever seen, it appears to be the largest deviation from normal for any given time of the year.

Rattlesnake Gal · 10-28-2005, 09:36 AM

I guess we should be thankful it isn't peak season with all the summer boat traffic.
Hopefully the level of the lake can be lowered enough before the formation of ice.
Can you image what spring is going to be like if the level starts out high?

hazelnut · 10-28-2005, 10:18 AM

http://gamma.unionleader.com/article...1-d02b48ec4ec2

Woodsy · 10-28-2005, 10:38 AM

The Lakeport dam has the capability to drop the lake about 1" ever 24hrs or so. The problem is the lakes and rivers downstream. Opechee and Silver lake are way over full and flooded. The Winnipesaukee river can only drain so much from them into the Merrimack river.It's expected that Winni will crest sometime today at about 12" over full lake.

Woodsy

Orion · 10-28-2005, 01:48 PM

There is also a "relative" impact to take into account. Winnipesaukee represents about 278 miles of shoreline and associated property impact whereas the next largest lake, Winnesquam is only about 25 miles of shoreline. Not pitting one against the other, but that surely must be factored in when determining relative outflows. I know the rivers represent a significant amount of shoreline on top of that but one would think that riverfront properties would be more durable against higher levels and flows than the anomaly currently being reflected on Winni.

ApS · 10-28-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Hubbard Rd

This is the highest I have ever seen Winnipesaukee. How high have you seen it get???

I've seen it higher, but I've never had driftwood on top of my dock!

RumGuy · 10-28-2005, 05:22 PM

I remember in my-er...childhood, the lake being 10 inches over our dock. That was in '72 or '73. Judging by photos of our dock sent BEFORE Wilma/Alpha, the lake is just lapping over the top now. Of course the Wilma/Alpha storm has undoubtedly added a few more inches.

Lake Lady 6 · 10-30-2005, 09:04 AM

Yes, I remember the "No Wake" over the 4th in 1998 - neighbor had huge sign on his roof to help boaters who may not have heard about it. There was one west side Rattlesnake Island man who refused to adhere. Maybe it was the sign that irritated him but he would go wide open from the island past the neighbor towards the WAM several times a day.

In the mid-eighties there was a "No Wake" (maybe just weekends) for a couple of months as I remember due to high water. It was necessary to walk through water at Trexler's Marina to get to your boat as the docks were under water.

The good news is that at this time of year there are fewer boats causing wakes and one can only hope the water level will be down by next boating season.

Sincerely hope that no one, either on the big lake, or down stream suffers too much damage.

spotsink · 10-31-2005, 12:12 PM

With Winnipesaukee sitting at about 10 to 12" above normal and outflow at the dam at maximum people are still worried about property damage from the high water. After reading the article in the Union Leader (see excerpt below) I am happy the lake is ONLY 12" above normal! Imagine a water level 28" or more above normal...

"Winnisquam is 28 inches higher than normal for this time of year and many docks around the lake are actually under water. Silver Lake is nearly four feet above normal and has flooded Gardners Grove Road in Belmont."

Our dock, if it were still in, would be just under water now... but I am concerned about errosion around the foundation at the shore.

DRH · 10-31-2005, 01:56 PM

I just checked Bizer’s web site (www.bizer.com) and I think Winnipesaukee is more like 24” (2.04’) above normal for this date, not 10 – 12”.

What Bizer’s lake height chart indicates is that the lake level is now about 10” above its average annual high point (505.16’ above sea level now versus an average high point of 504.32’). That calculates out to the lake being .84’, or approximately 10”, above its average annual high level.

Dave R · 10-31-2005, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

There is also a "relative" impact to take into account. Winnipesaukee represents about 278 miles of shoreline and associated property impact whereas the next largest lake, Winnesquam is only about 25 miles of shoreline. Not pitting one against the other, but that surely must be factored in when determining relative outflows. I know the rivers represent a significant amount of shoreline on top of that but one would think that riverfront properties would be more durable against higher levels and flows than the anomaly currently being reflected on Winni.

Lets say you decided to sacrifice the shoreline of Winnisqaum to save Winnipesaukee. You'd have to raise Winnisqaum nearly 11 inches to drop Winnipesaukee 1 inch due to the mauch greater surface area of Winnipesaukee.

Orion · 10-31-2005, 07:54 PM

Dave R....that would be true if the outflow from Winnisquam were closed and there was no more inflow into Winnipesaukee. The reality is that the outflow from Winnisquam generally keeps up with the inflow from Winnipesaukee. The outflow from Winnisquam increases with the rise in lake elevation. Agree, more flow from Winnipesaukee will increase the level of Winnisquam, but it's not a direct ratio of surface areas of the two lakes.

Also, I don't think anyone is sacrificing one for the other, it was just a point of consideration.

10-26-2005, 02:52 PM	#1
Lake Lady 6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 102 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	High Wind - High Water Winds have been high today and along with the high lake level are causing considerable damage along the shore. Our shore wall is in danger of collapsing as the water (which is usually 5 to 6 feet away from the wall) is splashing over the wall and the walkway to the dock thas been eroded underneath by the constant wave action causing the flagstone to cave in. The water level is up to dock height next door, ours about 4 inches below dock boards. When or if there is a drawn down it will help the hundreds of residents along the shoreline and islands. Many residents have put barrels filled with water on top of their docks to hold them down. There has to be some way to control the level to help control the damage or maybe they can lower our taxes to compensate for dollars lost - the same way they are raised for the view.

10-26-2005, 04:20 PM	#2
GTO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 340 Thanked 354 Times in 162 Posts	flooding And to think they don't release enough water to protect people downstream (Lowell, Lawrence along the Merrimack) from having flooding problems. But its ok to flood us..mmmm __________________ GTO

10-26-2005, 05:08 PM	#3
RumGuy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cape Cod / W.Alton Posts: 76 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Yes I wouldn't want the responsibility of that decision: In all, everyone here is losing, it's just a matter of balancing, or triage. I am sure that they are running off all of the water that they can without causing EXTENSIVE (which can also be spelled with a P in the middle) damage downstream.

10-26-2005, 08:02 PM	#5
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 1,358 Thanked 564 Times in 291 Posts	Take it in context Wildwoodfam: I think GTO's comment was light hearted in nature. Please take it in that context. We are a friendly bunch. No one wants to see anyone flooded!

10-26-2005, 09:39 PM	#6
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,358 Thanks: 996 Thanked 314 Times in 164 Posts	From the Dam Bureau I cut and pasted this from the Dams Bureau web site. Once you read it, you get the feeling them totally understand the situation and are doing all they can to address it. October 26, 2005 11:45 AM The discharge at Lakeport Dam (Lake Winnipesaukee) is approx. 2,250 cfs. The level of Lake Winnipesaukee is nearly 505.20, which is about 10 inches above the normal full summer level. DES is passing as much flow as possible at Lakeport Dam to both stem the rise in Winnipesaukee and to prevent, in as much as it is possible, damaging conditions at locations downstream (Opechee Lake, Winnisquam Lake, Silver Lake and the Winnipesaukee River through the Towns of Tilton, Northfield, Belmont and Franklin). Flows along the Winnipesaukee River system WILL remain high for the foreseeable future, as the storage in Lake Winnipesaukee MUST be passed downstream in advance of any future precipitatin event. This also means that the levels of all of the lakes listed above will also remain higher than normal during this process.

10-27-2005, 12:19 AM	#7
webmaster Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,495 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 467 Thanked 4,031 Times in 864 Posts	High Water Pictures Submerged docks like these were a common sight in the Lakes Region today. Check PhotoPost for more pictures of some the effects of the high water.

10-27-2005, 05:09 AM	#8
spotsink Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 79 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Those DAM Operators Judging by the data shown at the link below, output at the Lakeport Dam has been just about maximum for several days. It does not appear they are holding anything back right now... http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

10-27-2005, 05:41 AM	#9
Old Hubbard Rd Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 462 Thanks: 141 Thanked 54 Times in 33 Posts	Waterlevel-Highest I've Ever Seen it!! This is the highest I have ever seen Winnipesaukee. How high have you seen it get???

10-27-2005, 11:29 AM	#11
spotsink Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 79 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lake Level - historical data If you look at the graph in the link below it shows two times in the recent past when the lake was higher than it is now: late June of 1998 when it was about 3" higher than todays level and early/mid June of 1984 when it was about 6" higher than today, the 27th of October... I do not know how far back Bizer's data goes but this looks like the third highest level in the lake in the last 20+ years... http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

10-27-2005, 01:55 PM	#12
GTO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 340 Thanked 354 Times in 162 Posts	Frankly...... dear Wildwood, Just so your curiosity does not keep you up at night, I picked (on) Lowell & Lawrence because......mmmm..I hate towns and cities that begin with the letter "L". Ooops, but I like Laconia...that take care of that theory. Lets try this one, I beleive, that even though I grew up in Lowell for 23 years, that it could use a flood to clean it up....no, thats not fair, my parents still live there. Ok, I got one. I went through Lowell a day before I wrote this and saw that although the river was quite high, it could still go up another 2-3 feet before even coming close to any flood stages. Where the day before that, I was at the lake and saw docks and property underwater. And Frankly, to the "one that wonders", Unfortunately I do not own lakefront property (imagine that) and fortunately. I am not effected by any high waters. But I see others that are, including people from this forum. I wish no flooding for anyone, anywhere. It was just an observation but thanks for jumping on board. (I'm starting to like towns with the letter L. Maybe next time I'll name towns that begin with "H") Is it true that the dam operator at Lakeport (another town with an "L") is from downstream? J/k on that one __________________ GTO Last edited by GTO; 10-27-2005 at 02:16 PM. Reason: add on

10-27-2005, 02:48 PM	#13
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	highest level While this may not be the highest level the lake has ever seen, it appears to be the largest deviation from normal for any given time of the year.

10-28-2005, 09:36 AM	#14
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,253 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,455 Thanked 1,357 Times in 476 Posts	High Water Level I guess we should be thankful it isn't peak season with all the summer boat traffic. Hopefully the level of the lake can be lowered enough before the formation of ice. Can you image what spring is going to be like if the level starts out high?

10-28-2005, 10:18 AM	#15
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Union Leader Article http://gamma.unionleader.com/article...1-d02b48ec4ec2

10-28-2005, 10:38 AM	#16
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	The Lakeport dam has the capability to drop the lake about 1" ever 24hrs or so. The problem is the lakes and rivers downstream. Opechee and Silver lake are way over full and flooded. The Winnipesaukee river can only drain so much from them into the Merrimack river.It's expected that Winni will crest sometime today at about 12" over full lake. Woodsy

10-28-2005, 01:48 PM	#17
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Relativity There is also a "relative" impact to take into account. Winnipesaukee represents about 278 miles of shoreline and associated property impact whereas the next largest lake, Winnesquam is only about 25 miles of shoreline. Not pitting one against the other, but that surely must be factored in when determining relative outflows. I know the rivers represent a significant amount of shoreline on top of that but one would think that riverfront properties would be more durable against higher levels and flows than the anomaly currently being reflected on Winni.

10-28-2005, 05:22 PM	#19
RumGuy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cape Cod / W.Alton Posts: 76 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	lake level I remember in my-er...childhood, the lake being 10 inches over our dock. That was in '72 or '73. Judging by photos of our dock sent BEFORE Wilma/Alpha, the lake is just lapping over the top now. Of course the Wilma/Alpha storm has undoubtedly added a few more inches.

10-30-2005, 09:04 AM	#20
Lake Lady 6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 102 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Drh Yes, I remember the "No Wake" over the 4th in 1998 - neighbor had huge sign on his roof to help boaters who may not have heard about it. There was one west side Rattlesnake Island man who refused to adhere. Maybe it was the sign that irritated him but he would go wide open from the island past the neighbor towards the WAM several times a day. In the mid-eighties there was a "No Wake" (maybe just weekends) for a couple of months as I remember due to high water. It was necessary to walk through water at Trexler's Marina to get to your boat as the docks were under water. The good news is that at this time of year there are fewer boats causing wakes and one can only hope the water level will be down by next boating season. Sincerely hope that no one, either on the big lake, or down stream suffers too much damage.

10-31-2005, 12:12 PM	#21
spotsink Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 79 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It is all relative... With Winnipesaukee sitting at about 10 to 12" above normal and outflow at the dam at maximum people are still worried about property damage from the high water. After reading the article in the Union Leader (see excerpt below) I am happy the lake is ONLY 12" above normal! Imagine a water level 28" or more above normal... "Winnisquam is 28 inches higher than normal for this time of year and many docks around the lake are actually under water. Silver Lake is nearly four feet above normal and has flooded Gardners Grove Road in Belmont." Our dock, if it were still in, would be just under water now... but I am concerned about errosion around the foundation at the shore.

10-31-2005, 01:56 PM	#22
DRH Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Meredith Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 1,211 Thanked 678 Times in 180 Posts	Higher than that, I think I just checked Bizer’s web site (www.bizer.com) and I think Winnipesaukee is more like 24” (2.04’) above normal for this date, not 10 – 12”. What Bizer’s lake height chart indicates is that the lake level is now about 10” above its average annual high point (505.16’ above sea level now versus an average high point of 504.32’). That calculates out to the lake being .84’, or approximately 10”, above its average annual high level. __________________ DRH

10-31-2005, 07:54 PM	#24
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	inflow vs. outflow Dave R....that would be true if the outflow from Winnisquam were closed and there was no more inflow into Winnipesaukee. The reality is that the outflow from Winnisquam generally keeps up with the inflow from Winnipesaukee. The outflow from Winnisquam increases with the rise in lake elevation. Agree, more flow from Winnipesaukee will increase the level of Winnisquam, but it's not a direct ratio of surface areas of the two lakes. Also, I don't think anyone is sacrificing one for the other, it was just a point of consideration.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode