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01-08-2010, 09:54 PM | #1 |
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Braun Bay Rafting Bill
Betsey Patten spoke about the Braun Bay anti rafting bill at the last Selectmen meeting. It's here on the MCA site. ( towards the end of part one around 58 minutes).
She said the hearing date is 1/21 , but the House website has not published that yet. |
01-09-2010, 01:25 PM | #2 | |
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Start writing
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I also recommend writing Ms Patten. Don't blow your cool and give a ranting email or letter. Concise, logical writings are what get their attention. Food for thought. This is a case where the few want to impact the many. It's a lake with boats on it. What's more to understand? Many of us contribute significantly to the local and State economy. If this passes, I will cancel my one week reservation in Moultonborough to show my appreciation. Meredith hotels seems to like my money, maybe I'll go there instead. |
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01-09-2010, 01:37 PM | #3 |
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More coming
Hold on to whatever you have left.
After the SL bill, and this rafting bill, there are supporters that wants to regulate the size of boats and the horse power. There are folks that are under the imperssion that Winnipesaukee needs to be the next Squam lake. It will raise waterfront property values. ou can see that now as lake front properties are consolidated and sold at astronomical prices. Such as the multi million dollar sale in Meredith. I believe that was originally 4 seperate lots. That is why we need to stand up and be counted.
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01-09-2010, 02:33 PM | #4 |
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Summary
For those who did not watch the video:
Statements from Ms. Patten: 1. Stated she does not know the NH afting laws (but is proposing state bill about one). 2. Stated that her bill is in response to complaints from residents around Bruan Bay 3. Stated that the upcoming hearing will include statements from Bruan Bay residents. Can someone from Moultonborough make a public records request to Ms Patten to get: 1. Name(s) of complaintants? 2. Nature and number of complaints by party? I could do this but makes more convincing argument to come from a resident. Does someone know what the stance is from NHMP on this issue? What is the stance from the boat dealers/marinas in Moultonborough? With very few sandbars on the lake, this should be a rallying cry for boaters to be heard. Last edited by lawn psycho; 01-09-2010 at 02:51 PM. Reason: typo, as usual |
01-09-2010, 02:36 PM | #5 |
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Anti-Boat legislator
Here is the proposed bill:http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous...er=HB1466.html
Here is the person to flood with emails and letters. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous...?member=376041 Representative Betsey Patten (r) Carroll- District 04 Seat #:4007 Incumbent Home Address: 46 Patten Hill Road Moultonborough, NH 03254-2657 Phone: (603)253-6927 Email: blpatten@hotmail.com |
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01-10-2010, 11:01 AM | #6 |
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I called her just now. She says she has gotten much more support for the rafting ban than opposition to it. Sounds like (as with other topics on this forum) the opinions of those who post here are not reflecting the opinions of the majority.
Here's a better use of our time; I don't understand why nobody is making a big deal about the way the State confiscated the sand bar off Ellacoya State Park. The beautiful sandy bottom is only a couple of feet deep out to about 150 yards from shore. The water is the cleanest in the lake. When I was a kid, that was the best place on the lake to swim, snorkel, fish, raft, and learn to ski. Then the state roped it all off to keep boats out. WHY? There is room there for at least fifty boats there. And there are no home owners there to bother...it is state owned shore front. The must have about four acres of water surface roped off and even on the busiest days of the year, the park guests might use a quarter of it. The entire western two thirds of the roped off area barely sees a swimmer. There is still plenty of room for the beach guests on the eastern end towards Lake Shore Park. Why do they have all that water roped off? How can we get those ropes removed and get permission to let boaters raft there again? Let's call our reps and get a bill introduced to make Ellacoya a rafting zone again. |
01-10-2010, 07:36 PM | #7 |
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Ms Patten
I called and spoke with Ms. Patten. The #1 complaint from residents near Braun Bay is the number of boats.
Not noise, not trash. Boats. The goal of this legislation is to thin out Braun Bay. I informed her that changing the rafting law would have no affect since most boats are not tied up anyways and some are simply not properly spaced and it's just a matter of enforcing the existing regulations. She mentioned that porti-pottis on the fish and game land were given as an idea but apparently not well received by shore owners. Shore front owners will never be satisfied as long as anyboat is near their property IMO. I did mention to her that the State of NH needs to acquire land to protect future access. Please folks, give her a call and write letters. If you don't speak up now your ability to enjoy the lake will continue to be eroded. |
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01-11-2010, 12:19 PM | #8 |
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New law clarification?
Sorry, i'm not a lawyer...
Does this mean that rafting control has gone from the Kona area to the whole Braun Bay from long point to Far Echo? Sounds to me if three 3 boat rafts are on the bay, anywhere people can't form more that three 2 boat rafts in kona. Am I reading this right? Misty Blue |
01-11-2010, 12:28 PM | #9 |
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NHMP Official complaint numbers on Braun Bay
I contacted NHMP. Here are the official complaint numbers from Braun Bay last year. Hundreds of boats over the summer and 6 complaints (safe passage violation would not be Braun Bay specific IMO).
So essentially two residents complaining and Ms. Patten is trying to pass a state law to restrict access to Braun Bay, a very popular sandbar. For the record, Ms Patten also did not contact or consult with the NHMP about this legislation. She also is a non-boater who "hasn't been on Braun Bay in a long time." Quote is from my phone conversation with her. Directly from NHMP: In response to your inquiry, I offer the following; The Marine Patrol received 10 calls for service this past boating season for the Braun Bay area. One call was simply reporting a drifting boat after a windy evening. The other nine calls were as follows: 6 Rafting Violations/Noise Complaints (includes the report of an intoxicated person) 2 reports from boaters 4 complaints from residents. One resident was responsible for three of the calls. 2 Safe Passage Violations 1 from a boater reporting skiers too close to other boats 1 from resident reporting PWC activity too close to shore 1 Sea Plane Complaint (3 calls about this same incident, 1 boater and 2 nearby residents) Last edited by lawn psycho; 01-11-2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason: I think faster than my fingers & hate proofing :) |
01-11-2010, 01:11 PM | #10 |
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Her news proposal:
270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation. Based on the current sign at Braun Bay we are already restricted from any rafts consisting of more than 2 boats, so a raft of 3 or more boats is currently restricted. If her bill passes as is can we have up 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay...... Chase1 |
01-11-2010, 06:29 PM | #11 | |
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I can also tell you that NHMP stated that they do not support the bill as written and they were never consulted on the language in which it was drafted. However, during my discussion with Ms Patten that her bill would be ineffective, she indicated her goal is to reduce the number of boats in the bay and she would amend the bill if necessary. I actually almost didn't want to bring this up as if a legislator is too lazy/dumb as to draft an ineffective bill, it deserves to get killed in a committee and let them chew on it for another year. If you are sitting on the sidelines, you better start writing and calling your legislator before you're impacted. It takes 5 minutes of your time. |
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01-11-2010, 07:30 PM | #12 | |
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I think you have given Ms. Patten her own personal government epitaph. "too lazy/dumb" to do the people's work well! Ms. Patten, YOU ARE A LOSER and need to resign, because you don't have a clue of what a People's representative is all about! I vote for lazy, as you obviously didn't talk to too many people about this issue! |
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01-11-2010, 10:29 PM | #13 |
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More info
So this bill is being heard by the Resources, Recreation, & Development committee.
See here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous....aspx?code=H22 Here is the email to the entire committee: HouseResourcesRecreationandDevelopme....state.n h.us As always, let your voice be heard or be willing to suffer the consequences of complacency. |
01-16-2010, 07:50 PM | #14 |
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Committee Email
As a member of the RR & D Committee, I have not received any emails on this bill (HB1466). To address everybody on the committee requires a "~" as the first character in the address.
~HouseResourcesRecreationandDevelopment@leg.state. nh.us This bill has not been scheduled yet, only assigned to the RR & D Committee. Be sure your email includes your address, and Winnipesaukee connection, not just your name. Rep. Chris Christensen Hillsborough Dist 19 Merrimack, NH |
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01-17-2010, 07:18 AM | #15 |
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Email
Chris, thank you for the heads-up. I sent a very detailed email to the committee and it did not get bounced back so I am very suprised to hear that you have not received any correspondence.
I will send it again. |
01-17-2010, 08:31 AM | #16 |
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not sure that email is valid
I received this notice when i tried to send an email to the commitee:
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed." ~houseresourcesrecreationanddevelopment@leg.state. nh.us Update: The space in the address caused the failure since the domain would not be recognized. I cut/pasted the address directly from Descant's email, so anyone else who does that must delete the space Last edited by TomC; 01-17-2010 at 09:47 AM. Reason: additional information added |
01-17-2010, 09:30 AM | #17 |
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Could it be the space before nh.us
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01-11-2010, 12:33 PM | #18 | |
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You need to contact her and let her know your stance on this issue. |
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01-17-2010, 03:06 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
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01-17-2010, 04:03 PM | #20 |
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I believe it was once own by the head of COMPAQ before it was sold to HP. He was an avid performance boat fan who sponsored the offshore boat races on Lake Winnipesaukee back in the 90's.
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01-17-2010, 07:17 PM | #21 |
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That's what I recall too, the guy from Compaq, and he built the walls.
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01-17-2010, 03:07 PM | #22 |
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I can't believe I'm reading this....
I'm usually a very calm person but after reading what may happen in Braun Bay I had to reply. First of all, I am a Winni vacationer and have spent the last four years renting on Bear Is which includes spending time in Braun Bay enjoying the company of fellow boaters. It makes me sick to think that NH legislators would consider a law restricting the number of boats in Braun Bay to, if I understand the proposal, less than ten boats based on four complaints, three from the same person. This insane law would take away one of the only locations to raft boats on Winni that is enjoyed by the boating public. I have never met a group of people that are more pleasent and fun to be around than the people I have met at Braun Bay. Am I missing something here? Less people in Braun Bay means what? I can't see boats from my lake house? You live on a Lake and boating/rafting are part of the life style. The way the proposed bill reads, in my opinion, is vague at best and I agree with the rest of the posts that the bill is unclear. I keep wondering how stupid politicians get in office. I can tell you that if Braun Bay rafting is curtailed my wife and I along with the friends we vacation with will head to another lake. Maybe that is your desire to limit the number of people on the lake. So I pose this question; is this what the good people in Moultonborough want? The property owners will lose income from the rentals, the grocery stores and restraunts will have fewer customers along with the gas stations, corner stores, ice cream shops, etc. I can take my hard earned dollars and spend them elsewhere. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! Maybe I was wrong about NH.........Live Free or Die for the choosen few.
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01-17-2010, 07:40 PM | #23 |
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Braun Bay RaftingBill
I sent an Email to the Committee using the ~ symbol on Saturday evening. Within two hours I had an acknowledgement from Chris Christensen. He said he was leaning against the bill but wanted to get more info. He also indicated personal involvement by voters would go a long way to defeating it. He also would talk to anyone about it.
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01-18-2010, 06:11 PM | #24 |
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At least Mr. Christensen is willing to listen to the people. There are too many state reps. that unfortunately are beyond ignorant to the effects of the laws they are voting on. Many seem to only vote on things without listening to the facts and understand the actual effects of the law. Or are in the pockets of well funded groups and lobbiests. This will ruin a natural resource that should be enjoyed by all. Another "feel good" piece of legislation that only stretches the MP's resources and drives people out of our state hurting the already fragile economy.
Braun Bay is one of the most visited and in my opinion one of the major reasons many people visit Lake Winnipsaukee. Why should a few complaints from less then 5 people ruin it for generations of people who have visited the lake over the decades!?! I think we all need to band together and let our reps. know how we feel. The boating community of NH is represented very well here on Winni.com and we can make a difference. Please don't just voice your opinion. Make it known to the state legislature.
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01-18-2010, 06:31 PM | #25 | |
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Who are they?
Quote:
What lobbyist and well funded groups are you talking about. If you can give me this information I will write each one of them to make sure they do their job right. |
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01-18-2010, 06:37 PM | #26 | |
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Quote:
Statements from Ms. Patten: 1. Stated she does not know the NH afting laws (but is proposing state bill about one). To me this would warrent as ignorant in this situation. There are plenty of other bills out there that when you speak to the reps. they are unaware of the bill no matter the substance. I dont have the time to do your research for you. sorry. If you want to write everyone of them to go over their voting records have at it.
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01-18-2010, 06:49 PM | #27 |
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Nor did you do any research for yourself! It's not fair to make statements about a group of people and then not have the data to back it up. This post is talking about one certain rep and you lump the rest of them in with her. That is just not fair! |
01-18-2010, 07:00 PM | #28 | |
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However I said Many not "all". It was refreshing to see that Rep. Christensen is willing to listen to the people. There are many issues being discussed at the state house. And I don't know if you are involved or not. However I am and from first hand experience it is unfortunate how many Reps. do not understand the legislation "not only this one" before they cast their votes. Many simply vote along party lines.
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01-18-2010, 07:07 PM | #29 | |
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What seems to be unfortunate here is that if a lawmaker votes for something that you don't like, then they didn't do their research properly and therefore they are ignorant. I firmly believe that we need to give our legislative body more credit for what they do even if they don't vote our way each time. |
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01-18-2010, 07:09 PM | #30 |
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[QUOTE=Yosemite Sam;116886]What seems to be unfortunate here is that if a lawmaker votes for something that you don't like, then they didn't do their research properly and therefore they are ignorant.
That is not what OCDACTIVE said YS, I suggest you go back, read and comprehend what he posted. |
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01-18-2010, 07:16 PM | #31 |
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01-18-2010, 07:19 PM | #32 |
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Post #26 should explain it for you. Glad I could help you.
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01-18-2010, 07:22 PM | #33 |
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01-18-2010, 07:26 PM | #34 |
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Comprehension - the act or action of grasping with the intellect.
Not all of us have those skills evidently. |
01-18-2010, 07:38 PM | #35 |
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Yo-Sam. All you have to do is listen to any of the debates from the Mass race for senator and you can see how accurate OCD's observations were. Look at the change and transparancy we got. The people serving on the national level used to be the cream of the crop and the locals were not bad but not the same caliberr. I think he was being polite and thank the powers to be that there are still reps. like Mr Christensento deal with. It is impossible to get any of my reps to even talk to the little people!
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01-18-2010, 07:32 PM | #36 | |
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First I have utmost respect for those who are willing to serve "the people". Also, there have been many votes against my thoughts such as the gaming bill. The data from a social perspective did not recommend it, financially it did. Although what I wanted did not happen the data was there and the current legislative body did what it thought was in the best interests of "the people". This bill clearly is not in the best interest of the majority of the people and the sponsor themself by her own admission is not clear on the current laws yet she is presenting this bill. Back on topic, what are your thoughts on this bill? Or are you just trying to find an argument on a topic because we haven't seen eye to eye on past issues? I noticed this thread has been up for quite awhile and you hadn't responded before... Be careful there are names for people who do that. Not saying that is the case here.....
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01-18-2010, 07:50 PM | #37 | |
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This proves my point that if someone disagrees with you or ask you to explain something that they don't understand, then they are either ignorant or a troll. Does asking for clarification about something make me a troll? From what I have read here about the Braun Bay proposed bill, Ms Patten hasn't done the proper research needed to convince me that this bill is needed. |
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01-18-2010, 07:52 PM | #38 |
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You pretty much nailed it OCD.
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01-19-2010, 11:20 AM | #39 |
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A little sensitive
Sounds like somebody might be a state represenitive or an elected official.
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01-19-2010, 11:23 AM | #40 | |
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01-19-2010, 03:08 PM | #41 |
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Back on topic, what are your thoughts on this bill? Or are you just trying to find an argument on a topic because we haven't seen eye to eye on past issues? I noticed this thread has been up for quite awhile and you hadn't responded before... Be careful there are names for people who do that. Not saying that is the case here..... [/QUOTE]
In my experience on this forum, when people start questioning the motives of other forum members instead of staying "on topic", the discussion too often turns nasty and non-constructive. Not saying that's the case here |
01-19-2010, 06:01 PM | #42 |
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I wrote all of the reps and got back numerous friendly replies. Sometimes it is better to just write to their personal addresses.
I think ten boats anchored all day in a cove that size is plenty...probably as much abuse as any cove can stand. Remember, we are not just talking about boats sitting inertly atop the water here. People are peeing and littering. Bilge pumps are kicking on and off. Like any place else that people frequent, lots of "stuff" is being left behind. Like any other rafting cove on the lake, the bottom is covered with sunk Budweiser empties, and worse. And therein lies the problem. Too many partiers have taken too much of a toll for too long on what used to be such a nice spot, or this bill would not have ever gotten filed. Blame them...blame yourselves. Ten boats might not be the right number, but at least it is a start. Now the reps can argue about whether it should be ten boats or eight or sixteen, but at least we have a proposal with a fixed number, and that number can be debated and tweeked. That is how the legislative process is supposed to work. What is your suggestion? "No limits"? "Let people decide for themselves"? Sounds familiar. Meanwhile, a much better rafting spot continues to be roped off to all boats...right off Ellacoya State Beach in Gilford. The cleanest water in the lake. The nicest bottom. Acres and acres of 3-ft deep sandy bottom off shore of state-owned land with nobody using it. A natural flushing system (Ellacoya Brook) to wash the pee away. Ropes say "Keep out". Why? Where's the outrage? |
01-20-2010, 07:53 AM | #43 | |
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01-20-2010, 08:08 AM | #44 |
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What is next, a bill limiting the number of boats on the lake? This mentality of limiting everything simply because a few complain is getting ridiculous.
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01-20-2010, 09:50 AM | #45 |
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Thank you Massachusett residents
Agreed,but we may have turned the corner after the event in Massachusetts yesterday.
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01-20-2010, 09:57 AM | #46 |
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01-20-2010, 10:00 AM | #47 |
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What "stuff"?
elchase:
I don't know where you are finding trash, etc. in the Kona area of Braun Bay. I live on the bay and have a view of the sand bar where those dirty boaters spend so much time. I have an intrest in the bay to say the least. First the bay, in my opinion, is not overcrowded. Yes I have seen as many as seventy boats up in the bay in the past. There are usually fewer boats than that and they are using the sandbar for six hours a day, two days a week for eight to ten weeks a year. It doesn't seem more busy (traffic wise) than Weirs, Alton, Wolfeboro etc. Boats that are anchored don't scare me. Laws like this one would place "controls" on the bay that are in effect 24/7 from ice out to ice in. What' more, as written, it encompesses the entire bay not just the state land on the north shore. As for trash. Where are you getting this? We conoe and kayak there all the time and I am shocked at how clean it is! I expect that the people enjoying the area self police themselves well. I have seen people asking others not to wash their boats there because they are playing in the water. I have hunted in the Kona area my whole life and have only once or twice found human waste (poop) in the area. Same thing goes for cans. Sorry but I think that this is just a case of a "squeeky wheel" getting the ear of a Rep. who is not up to par on the subject. Misy Blue |
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01-20-2010, 10:38 AM | #48 |
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I am not a Braun Bay frequenter but it is amazing to read about the positives and then the horrors of the location. Stories from both property owners and boaters come from 2 extreme perspectives. Is everyone talking about the same place or are there 2 Braun bays?
One of the addicting features of the Winni Forum is allowing these diverse perspectives to be pondered. One man's treasure is another's trash. There are times I love the quiet and solitude on the lake and other times I enjoy a great party. It is not possible to have both at the same time but you cannot control public resources when used in a legal way. If there is a trash issue I am sure the repeat users of the bay could organize a "clean-up" party on a periodic basis. I have seen many boaters try to pick up trash they find and take care of it later. Most of the positive posters seem reasonable. I hope this is an effort to get an issue on the table and let the debate begin and address the real issues. I am truly against having the government create laws to manage how or when we can use public resources for enjoyment. Eventually we would end up spending all our discretionary time checking the law books for what we could or could not do before we ventured onto public property. Thank you Massachusett*E*s voters for the backbone and sending the message across the country to stop the "Bribes for Votes" process! |
01-20-2010, 12:02 PM | #49 | |
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Quote:
Not only are there "two Braun Bays" it seems most of the same gang has a radically different view of the whole lake! You cannot go faster than they want and you cannot stop to enjoy public shallow water. I guess if you have personal phone numbers of law-makers, you get special treatment, while the rest of us just get to pay tax and usage bills. So nice of them to let us use their lake!!! Watch out for their next restriction! They seem to think they are special and they admit they are politically connected with access the private phone lines of law-makers. At least that is the present case. Elections can and will change things when they get out-of-hand. Just look a bit south for proof! R2B |
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01-20-2010, 10:07 AM | #50 | |
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An idea.
Quote:
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01-20-2010, 10:30 AM | #51 |
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"No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. "
Hence, if there are 2 rafts consisting of 700 boats each, then a 3rd raft can be made with an infinite number of boats and so long as a 4th raft is not made everything is fine? This bill is not something I favor, but I see this as a HUGE loophole. |
01-20-2010, 12:42 PM | #52 |
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Yup, why let the citizens of this country decide things for themselves? Big Brother is the way to go?! Let's have more government control. I guess that way of thinking worked out well for Martha Coakly didn't it! Thank You Massachusetts! NH, watch out, your next!
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01-20-2010, 02:03 PM | #53 |
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Hearing on the bill tomorrow?
Here is a rough transcript of Braun Bay bill before Moultonborough Selectmen
1/7/10 by Betsy Patten. According to her testimony there is a hearing on this bill Thursday Jan 21st. I have not doubled checked that information: Rep Patten “I also put in a bill about the rafting that is happening, how many boats are in Braun Bay and that hearing will be coming up on the 21st which is probably next week?, next week the 28th? No, Selectman, “I think there’s already a thing on there” Rep Patten “Well what happens is that you can, I think you can put 3 boats together in a raft, what happens at Braun Bay is that there is multiples of 3 and it just grows and grows and grows and I have gotten complaints, and I have always heard that under the law enforcement on the water, there wasn’t anything that law enforcement on the land can do unless marine patrol was out there, and so I wanted to be able to…what I put in was to limit how many rafting conglomerations can be out there, Say you can put three rafts of three out there, I don’t know where it’s going to go. The hearing is, I’m going to ask people for their input that are down in Braun Bay and we’ll see what happens with that so, every time I get a complaint it’s like lets talk about it and lets see if we can do ..mumbles….” |
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01-20-2010, 02:16 PM | #54 | |
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Quote:
Information like that is what is needed to carry on a good debate about the Braun Bay Bill. What Rep Patten stated makes since because she is asking for input and is collecting data. She doesn't claim to be a know it all and is open for suggestions. Good job Airwaves! |
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01-20-2010, 02:20 PM | #55 |
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I am not a "rules" gureu when it comes to the legislature and committees however can't you hold discussions in committee without proposing a new law???? wouldn't that be the wiser move? and save the citizens less tax money in paperwork and having to hold hearings etc? Especially if you really aren't sure what it is you are proposing?
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01-20-2010, 04:20 PM | #56 | |
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Fear mongering
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OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Honey, did you see that!!!!, there's boats out there on the water. Quick, call the Marine Patrol!!! All those "partiers" in Braun Bay are mostly families enjoying the few warm days of summer. Swimming, sun bathing, socializing. Widespread drunken frat party, we all know that's not even close to reality. If water from bilge pumps are an issue, then the State of NH should require every private dock to be pulled so their bilge pump isn't cycling 24/7 for the entire boating season. Being realistic, that "bilge" water that you want to somehow relate too toxic waste is the very water that came from the lake. Wow what a half-brained fear-mongering attempt to misinform. If someone is going to put trash in the lake, they will do it whether that are rafting at a sandbar or not. I am among the many who will stop my boat to pluck something out of the water. The problem with you making a statement like this is you are using a generalization with no factual evidence. My experience is that most people are careful to keep trash out of the water. In fact, I would argue that lakefront or near lake front properties add more to water quality issues than every boat on the lake. Your roof, house, and all impervious surfaces prevent water from penetrating the ground and getting filtered. Your septic system is your indirect yellow and brown contributions to the lake. Your driveway and the salt and sand from nearby roads that makes into the lake are not exactly desirable. The oil that is on your driveway that gets washed into the lake. Sealcoat your driveway, yep, that's harmful too. It's seems like the ban should be those who LIVE near the lake then there is no problem..... Your post demonstrates to me that all the red herring issues you raise for Braun Bay are not a "problem" as long as it get's moved to another area of the lake so you don't have to see boats in the Bay. The NHMP data also shows your complaints are not backed by facts. I agree that parts/all of Ellacoya could be opened up to boaters. |
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