Alton Bay Boathouse Collapse?

riverat · 05-19-2009, 06:02 PM

Friend of mine took this picture this afternoon, across the bay from the boat launch.

tis · 05-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Was that the one that looked like it was ready to fall in? We talked about it last time we rode to Alton Bay, I think about two weeks ago, one of those nice days.

bigRazor · 05-19-2009, 06:32 PM

Is there a boat under that?

Mee-n-Mac · 05-19-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Was that the one that looked like it was ready to fall in? We talked about it last time we rode to Alton Bay, I think about two weeks ago, one of those nice days.

I think the one you're thinking about is further up 28A. We were remarking just last weekend that it appeared about to collapse. The one in this post, I think, was redone to look like the house across the street just a couple of years ago. Musta paid more attention to the cosmetic than to the structural details. Perhaps there was a hidden rotted timber that couldn't support the weight of the new roof.

tis · 05-20-2009, 06:29 AM

Oh, thanks for the info Mee-what a shame to have it redone and have that happen! Too bad they didn't fix the structural problems if that was the case! I was trying to picture exactly what one it was. I think they better work on the other one before they lose that, don't you? We were saying that they don't know what a treasure it is to have a boathouse because to try to get a permit is so hard and so discouraging that most people don't want to attempt it these days. You have to really want one! A couple of years ago they tried to stop boathouses altogether but it wasn't approved , however I wouldn't be surprised if the day comes when they are no longer allowed. And I think it is a shame because they are so unique and such a part of the lake and the fish and animals love them! I don't know why they think they do so much harm. (off soapbox!)
But I do love all those boathouses in Alton Bay! They are eye candy to me!

Irrigation Guy · 05-20-2009, 07:26 AM

That roof doesn't look that new to me. Maybe I'm mistaken but the shingles on the front look like they were replaced at a different time than those on the sides.

LIforrelaxin · 05-20-2009, 09:30 AM

Well this is certainly horrible... and I am sure the owners are having to deal with a lot... now be it that this was redone and structural issue where not taken care of properly or just age caught up with the structure, it really doesn't matter. However what this brings up in my mind, is the cost and paper work required to work on these structures.

This is where are the new rules and regulations, along with the cost of hiring contractors really catch up. If the structure needed repairs permits, to many permits and approvals in my mind need to be dealt with. And then comes the expense of hiring a contractor to do the work if one can't do it on their own. Which leads down the road of structures like this getting into bad shape and falling into the water. there are Many Many boat house I wonder from year to year if they will make it through another winter.

The problem people can't afford the repairs, and the cost of getting the permits, which is a shame.... and over time I think we will see similar incidents in other areas of the lake.

AC2717 · 05-20-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Well this is certainly horrible... and I am sure the owners are having to deal with a lot... now be it that this was redone and structural issue where not taken care of properly or just age caught up with the structure, it really doesn't matter. However what this brings up in my mind, is the cost and paper work required to work on these structures.

This is where are the new rules and regulations, along with the cost of hiring contractors really catch up. If the structure needed repairs permits, to many permits and approvals in my mind need to be dealt with. And then comes the expense of hiring a contractor to do the work if one can't do it on their own. Which leads down the road of structures like this getting into bad shape and falling into the water. there are Many Many boat house I wonder from year to year if they will make it through another winter.

The problem people can't afford the repairs, and the cost of getting the permits, which is a shame.... and over time I think we will see similar incidents in other areas of the lake.

Do not forget that this is something you carry insurance for!

NightWing · 06-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC2717

Do not forget that this is something you carry insurance for!

Insurance won't cover rot.

AC2717 · 06-10-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Insurance won't cover rot.

I do not know why, if this is the case, that someone would not purchase insurance for their boathouse, I know I would, especially in the area we are in.

LIforrelaxin · 06-10-2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC2717

I do not know why, if this is the case, that someone would not purchase insurance for their boathouse, I know I would, especially in the area we are in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Insurance won't cover rot.

Nightwing is right, I can't imagine an unsurance cover replacing a boat house, after it down do to neglect.

Now what I can imagine, is that they may pay for the cleanup possibly in the case of a colapse as long as it wasn't do to neglect..... or more definately damage as the result of a tree landing on it, or you neighber crashing into it, or even is a friend falls into the water off of it and hurts his back....

AC2717 · 06-11-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Nightwing is right, I can't imagine an unsurance cover replacing a boat house, after it down do to neglect.

Now what I can imagine, is that they may pay for the cleanup possibly in the case of a colapse as long as it wasn't do to neglect..... or more definately damage as the result of a tree landing on it, or you neighber crashing into it, or even is a friend falls into the water off of it and hurts his back....

I am in the business, trust me if they had it insured there would be some fight back, but there would be a deal struck on it

eyenotall777 · 05-20-2009, 01:16 PM

If I recall correctly - I had heard about a month ago that this particular boat house was in the process of getting approvals for construction to begin. Last weekend I drove by down Rt 11 side and the boat house was still standing. You could see the orange barrier already set up (as seen the in pic) so they were probably preparing for the beginning of construction

ApS · 05-20-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

That roof doesn't look that new to me. Maybe I'm mistaken but the shingles on the front look like they were replaced at a different time than those on the sides.

I believe those new shingles were in the process of being put on at the time of the collapse.

Everything was going fine until the unlicensed roofer halted his labors to do some roof top push-ups.

tis · 05-20-2009, 05:25 PM

OH NO! , FLL was the roofer? Those push ups will do ya' in every time!

Irrigation Guy · 05-20-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I believe those new shingles were in the process of being put on at the time of the collapse.

Everything was going fine until the unlicensed roofer halted his labors to do some push-ups.

I doubt those new shingles(the dark ones) were being put on. If you look at the edges you can see the lighter colored ones are wrapped over the darker ones like roof cap shingles. So the dark ones were there when the lighter colored ones were put onem but if you were puting on a new roof you wouldn't put the caps on without replacing the lake side darker ones first. I guess they didn't care when the put those new shingles on.

Lastly, I don't think going over and not stripping the roof would be a good idea, with all the weight an added layer of shingle would add. Maybe this is why it collapsed?

Lakesrider · 05-20-2009, 06:52 PM

I too drove by this the other day. I remember thinking that it was about time they tore it down as the lower section looked very rotted out, and unsafe. I mean it looked liked it was sinking or something. At least from the road. I thought it was coming down on it's own. I didn't know it had collapsed at the time.

Too bad for the owners. as stated I'll bet it is going to be fun getting it replaced. But I'll bet it is grandfathered in and not too many will opposed its replacement.

Mee-n-Mac · 06-09-2009, 02:28 PM

Another post reminded me of this one. The fallen boathouse has been removed (actually it was done PDQ after it collapsed) and a floating booms set around it's base. It wasn't the one I was thinking about. As LocalRealtor mentioned that (refurbed) one was down a few from the collapsed one as can be seen (the yellow boathouse) in the pic below. The one Tis mentioned is in the other pic below and looks like it's about to cave in ....

tis · 06-09-2009, 06:00 PM

We went to AB Sunday, Mee and saw the boathouse all cleaned up and the booms around the base. As you said, it was the other one we had seen before. I really think the owners should do something with it before they lose it. Maybe they are trying to get a permit and it does take forever-that could be the issue. Or maybe they just don't care, but they don't know what they are giving up if they just let it go.

Mee-n-Mac · 07-08-2009, 12:03 PM

I wish I had the camera handy but I didn't so this will have to suffice. There's a barge now (started last week I believe) dredging up all (some of ?) the old below water remnants. Looks like they're going to replace with all new construction from the bottom (or nearly) up ! Good to see that whatever new rules apply haven't slowed the works to a complete standstill.

jmen24 · 07-08-2009, 02:42 PM

The boathouse would be under the wetlands permiting process and not the new CSPA, so the rules have not changed as the wetlands permit trumps the CSPA in a case of overlap in zones. Still not a painless process but not as bad as you think. In the case of a rehab on an existing structure it is even easier than attempting new.

I would think that the insurance would pay for some if not all of the replacement. We do about 4-5 insurance repairs a year and we just did one that the owners poorly built second story deck tore off (and through; long story) the house due to not be shoveled clear of snow and the insurance paid for the whole thing. That is neglect over a short time and there was some serious oversight on the design of the deck.

gtxrider · 07-14-2009, 11:57 AM

Every time a pass this boat house I wonder how it is still standing? It seems if a bird landed on the roof this place would come crashing down.

Was it part of the Oak Birch?

MeEscape · 07-14-2009, 01:55 PM

It is next door, but a separate lot and ownership.

Onshore · 07-14-2009, 02:01 PM

Either of the boathouses in question here could be completely removed and replaced in kind using either the Permit by Notification process or a Minimum Impact Expedited Application process. If the support structures are solid you can replace everything from the stringers up, in kind, with out a permit. This is of course only the state level permit from DES and you need to check with your town for any local permit requirements. The attachments, info, and cost($200) for both the Expedited Application and Permit by Notification are identical. The Permit by Notification process is allegedly quicker but I'm not sure it actually works out that way. The advantage of the Expedited process is that you get an actual permit back that you can record at the registry to help establish the legal staus of the structure if you ever want to sell it and that you can post on site so that anyone who cares to look can confirm that you have one. Permits are valid for 5 years.

Rattlesnake Gal · 11-06-2009, 09:05 AM

Will this Alton Bay boathouse survive the winter?

I sure hope that people are staying out of this death trap!

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverat

Friend of mine took this picture this afternoon, across the bay from the boat launch.

Or will it suffer the same fate as this other Alton Bay boathouse?

Rattlesnake Gal · 11-06-2009, 09:24 AM

The side view of the same boathouse doesn't seem quite so dilapidated.

At what point would the town step in and condemn a structure like this?

Gearhead · 11-06-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

Will this Alton Bay boathouse survive the winter?

I sure hope that people are staying out of this death trap!

Or will it suffer the same fate as this other Alton Bay boathouse?

It's been like this for at least the last couple of years. I thought for sure it'd be gone two years ago with all that snow we got, and then last Winter I thought the same thing, but now I think it's going to be around for a while.

I know the owners and they are great people. They don't have a boat, so they probably figure the next owners can spend the cash to fix it when they move on.

Maybe I'll pay them a visit and ask to take a couple of pictures of the inside of the roof. If the header really is gone, I'd like to do a free-body diagram of the roof structure to see what on earth is holding it up, even with six feet of snow on it.

05-19-2009, 06:02 PM	#1
riverat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 722 Thanks: 337 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Alton Bay Boathouse Collapse? Friend of mine took this picture this afternoon, across the bay from the boat launch. __________________ Waking up in the morning is the greatest, everything after that is a bonus

05-20-2009, 09:30 AM	#7
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 884 Times in 517 Posts	This bring to mind Well this is certainly horrible... and I am sure the owners are having to deal with a lot... now be it that this was redone and structural issue where not taken care of properly or just age caught up with the structure, it really doesn't matter. However what this brings up in my mind, is the cost and paper work required to work on these structures. This is where are the new rules and regulations, along with the cost of hiring contractors really catch up. If the structure needed repairs permits, to many permits and approvals in my mind need to be dealt with. And then comes the expense of hiring a contractor to do the work if one can't do it on their own. Which leads down the road of structures like this getting into bad shape and falling into the water. there are Many Many boat house I wonder from year to year if they will make it through another winter. The problem people can't afford the repairs, and the cost of getting the permits, which is a shame.... and over time I think we will see similar incidents in other areas of the lake. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

05-20-2009, 01:16 PM	#13
eyenotall777 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 151 Thanks: 38 Thanked 26 Times in 18 Posts	Construction If I recall correctly - I had heard about a month ago that this particular boat house was in the process of getting approvals for construction to begin. Last weekend I drove by down Rt 11 side and the boat house was still standing. You could see the orange barrier already set up (as seen the in pic) so they were probably preparing for the beginning of construction

06-09-2009, 02:28 PM	#18
Mee-n-Mac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,943 Thanks: 23 Thanked 111 Times in 51 Posts	Update Another post reminded me of this one. The fallen boathouse has been removed (actually it was done PDQ after it collapsed) and a floating booms set around it's base. It wasn't the one I was thinking about. As LocalRealtor mentioned that (refurbed) one was down a few from the collapsed one as can be seen (the yellow boathouse) in the pic below. The one Tis mentioned is in the other pic below and looks like it's about to cave in .... Attached Images __________________ Mee'n'Mac "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity or ignorance. The latter are a lot more common than the former." - RAH

07-08-2009, 12:03 PM	#20
Mee-n-Mac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,943 Thanks: 23 Thanked 111 Times in 51 Posts	Update 2 I wish I had the camera handy but I didn't so this will have to suffice. There's a barge now (started last week I believe) dredging up all (some of ?) the old below water remnants. Looks like they're going to replace with all new construction from the bottom (or nearly) up ! Good to see that whatever new rules apply haven't slowed the works to a complete standstill. __________________ Mee'n'Mac "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity or ignorance. The latter are a lot more common than the former." - RAH

05-19-2009, 06:15 PM	#2
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,429 Thanks: 722 Thanked 1,388 Times in 962 Posts	Was that the one that looked like it was ready to fall in? We talked about it last time we rode to Alton Bay, I think about two weeks ago, one of those nice days.

05-19-2009, 06:32 PM	#3
bigRazor Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Pelham, NH Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Is there a boat under that?

05-20-2009, 06:29 AM	#5
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,429 Thanks: 722 Thanked 1,388 Times in 962 Posts	Oh, thanks for the info Mee-what a shame to have it redone and have that happen! Too bad they didn't fix the structural problems if that was the case! I was trying to picture exactly what one it was. I think they better work on the other one before they lose that, don't you? We were saying that they don't know what a treasure it is to have a boathouse because to try to get a permit is so hard and so discouraging that most people don't want to attempt it these days. You have to really want one! A couple of years ago they tried to stop boathouses altogether but it wasn't approved , however I wouldn't be surprised if the day comes when they are no longer allowed. And I think it is a shame because they are so unique and such a part of the lake and the fish and animals love them! I don't know why they think they do so much harm. (off soapbox!) But I do love all those boathouses in Alton Bay! They are eye candy to me!

05-20-2009, 07:26 AM	#6
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	That roof doesn't look that new to me. Maybe I'm mistaken but the shingles on the front look like they were replaced at a different time than those on the sides.

05-20-2009, 05:25 PM	#15
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,429 Thanks: 722 Thanked 1,388 Times in 962 Posts	OH NO! , FLL was the roofer? Those push ups will do ya' in every time!

05-20-2009, 06:52 PM	#17
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	I too drove by this the other day. I remember thinking that it was about time they tore it down as the lower section looked very rotted out, and unsafe. I mean it looked liked it was sinking or something. At least from the road. I thought it was coming down on it's own. I didn't know it had collapsed at the time. Too bad for the owners. as stated I'll bet it is going to be fun getting it replaced. But I'll bet it is grandfathered in and not too many will opposed its replacement.

06-09-2009, 06:00 PM	#19
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,429 Thanks: 722 Thanked 1,388 Times in 962 Posts	We went to AB Sunday, Mee and saw the boathouse all cleaned up and the booms around the base. As you said, it was the other one we had seen before. I really think the owners should do something with it before they lose it. Maybe they are trying to get a permit and it does take forever-that could be the issue. Or maybe they just don't care, but they don't know what they are giving up if they just let it go.

07-08-2009, 02:42 PM	#21
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	The boathouse would be under the wetlands permiting process and not the new CSPA, so the rules have not changed as the wetlands permit trumps the CSPA in a case of overlap in zones. Still not a painless process but not as bad as you think. In the case of a rehab on an existing structure it is even easier than attempting new. I would think that the insurance would pay for some if not all of the replacement. We do about 4-5 insurance repairs a year and we just did one that the owners poorly built second story deck tore off (and through; long story) the house due to not be shoveled clear of snow and the insurance paid for the whole thing. That is neglect over a short time and there was some serious oversight on the design of the deck.

07-14-2009, 11:57 AM	#22
gtxrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Piscataway, NJ Posts: 1,030 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 24 Posts	Danger, Danger! Every time a pass this boat house I wonder how it is still standing? It seems if a bird landed on the roof this place would come crashing down. Was it part of the Oak Birch? Attached Images

07-14-2009, 01:55 PM	#23
MeEscape Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Da' Bay Posts: 38 Thanks: 6 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	It is next door, but a separate lot and ownership.

07-14-2009, 02:01 PM	#24
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 500 Thanks: 12 Thanked 400 Times in 143 Posts	Either of the boathouses in question here could be completely removed and replaced in kind using either the Permit by Notification process or a Minimum Impact Expedited Application process. If the support structures are solid you can replace everything from the stringers up, in kind, with out a permit. This is of course only the state level permit from DES and you need to check with your town for any local permit requirements. The attachments, info, and cost($200) for both the Expedited Application and Permit by Notification are identical. The Permit by Notification process is allegedly quicker but I'm not sure it actually works out that way. The advantage of the Expedited process is that you get an actual permit back that you can record at the registry to help establish the legal staus of the structure if you ever want to sell it and that you can post on site so that anyone who cares to look can confirm that you have one. Permits are valid for 5 years.

11-06-2009, 09:24 AM	#26
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,252 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,451 Thanked 1,349 Times in 475 Posts	Alton Bay Boathouse Side View The side view of the same boathouse doesn't seem quite so dilapidated. At what point would the town step in and condemn a structure like this?