Top Tier gasoline?

[fatlazyless]

Since recently buying a 2014 Scion xD with about 165k-miles for $5000 from Lakes Auto Sales and Detailing in Tilton, close to Home Depot, I have become something of a car guy or a car nut. This 4-cyl 5-speed Scion xD has a 125-hp engine similar to a Corolla engine and I must have got very LUCKY with this car because it's a real winner car with NO oil consuming engine like the Scion xB with a Camry engine. Sometimes, you just get l-u-c-k-y! ....

Anyway, Citgo vs Irving gasoline?

To my surprise Irving is not Top Tier rated, while Citgo is Top Tier rated which means that Citgo has better detergent and additives than Irving, or something.

And, I always thought that gas was gas, and only thing that matters is the price.

Another surprise is that Penguin Gas is Top Tier while Haffner is not which seems surprising to me but maybe my information is wrong on this? ......

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Since recently buying a 2014 Scion xD with about 165k-miles for $5000 from Lakes Auto Sales and Detailing in Tilton, close to Home Depot, I have become something of a car guy or a car nut. This 4-cyl 5-speed Scion xD has a 125-hp engine similar to a Corolla engine and I must have got very LUCKY with this car because it's a real winner car with NO oil consuming engine like the Scion xB with a Camry engine. Sometimes, you just get l-u-c-k-y! ....

Anyway, Citgo vs Irving gasoline?

To my surprise Irving is not Top Tier rated, while Citgo is Top Tier rated which means that Citgo has better detergent and additives than Irving, or something.

And, I always thought that gas was gas, and only thing that matters is the price.

Another surprise is that Penguin Gas is Top Tier while Haffner is not which seems surprising to me but maybe my information is wrong on this? ......

I do know that Haffner’s is not a top tier gas. Easiest way to tell is to simply look for the top tier logo on the pump or go to this website…

https://www.toptiergas.com/fuel-stations/

Dan

[8gv]

I suspect that gas from any BUSY station is fine but if you wish split hairs...

Irving may have the closest refinery.

Is it a difference of days, weeks or months?

Unknown.

Just buy gas from a busy station!

[fatlazyless]

PFE is the ingredient in fuel cleaners that does it best.

TechRon concentrate plus w/ PFE is most recommended fuel cleaner, about $8

Gum Out all-in-one, and Gum Out regain hi-mileage w/ PFE, about $4-each

Both Gum Outs are lower price than TechRon but still good to use, maybe not as effective with less PFE

All the low price el cheapo fuel cleaners are nowhere near as good as the above with PFE. The cheapies have different ingredients with less cleaning ability.

[thinkxingu]

I don't know how much of a difference Top Tier gas is, but in my town it's only five cents more per gallon than the lowest priced station, so I go with it.

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[BroadHopper]

I'm sure folks heard about engine nightmares of today's highly efficient engines. I will be talking about the TSFI engines from the Volkswagen Auto Group, which I am familiar with. TSFI means Turbo Stratified Fuel Injection. I'm not going into the details here, so ChatGPT is your friend.

2.0 liter TSFI engines are easily capable of producing 300+ HP and 25+ mpg. Compare to my 340 Rallye Challenger that produce 240HP and 13mpg, this is a huge efficiency step! Both requires premium gas, and both have knock sensors that retard timing should you use regular fuel.

TSFI engines tends to run 'dirty' i.e. significant carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. Top Tier gasoline uses detergent to help combat this. Plus, Euro spec synthetic oil helps keep the piston rings from carbon buildup. Engines that don't get top tier gas and Euro spec oils have problems of oil consumption and eventually ring failure.

So, it depends on how efficient you engine is. Most engines on the market may run great on cheap gas and oils. I also heard these engines start having problems as they hit the 100K mark. A good share is due to carbon buildup or slug in the oil. Most folks trade their vehicles in before or when this happens.

Cheap gas is great if you are planning on getting rid of your new car before the 100K mark. I keep my autos until rust takes over. So I'm not taking chances of an engine failure.

[LIforrelaxin]

Riding this I am reminded that there are additives that can be added to fuel, the number of refineries in the world are limited. In the reading I have done on this subject, it comes down to additives, to help with a variety of issues. Carbon Buildup, gum build up, etc. etc...

With all that said, most additives you can by in the auto parts store... so the question becomes do you want to pay for additives up front in the price of gas, or do you want to pay for additives that you add.......

The only thing in fuel I would worry about is Octane level, and Ethanol percentage.... some vehicles require higher octane......Interestingly as you move around the country you will also note the Octane levels can very... For instance this summer in my travels in Colorado you could get Octane level 95...
going through east Texas I stopped at a place that only had E15, and minimum octane level of 97......

With all that said, looking at the list of "top tier" gas stations and seeing who is and isn't one it.... makes me think it is a contrived list based on opinion....

[dpg]

Gasoline all starts out the same, it's the additives certain companies/station add. Everyone has an opinion about this but personally I only use "top tier" gas. Shell, Mobil, Gulf, Sunoco, etc.
Got a family member that drives a caddy during service one time at the dealership they told him never put Cumberland Farms gas in the car. They specifically called out their gas.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by dpg

Gasoline all starts out the same, it's the additives certain companies/station add. Everyone has an opinion about this but personally I only use "top tier" gas. Shell, Mobil, Gulf, Sunoco, etc.
Got a family member that drives a caddy during service one time at the dealership they told him never put Cumberland Farms gas in the car. They specifically called out their gas.

As a former Mobil gas station owner, never fill your tank if the tanker is there dropping fuel!

[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by Biggd

As a former Mobil gas station owner, never fill your tank if the tanker is there dropping fuel!

Why is that? If it's because of suspended particulates, I would think the pump filters would handle it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by bobkatfly

Why is that? If it's because of suspended particulates, I would think the pump filters would handle it.

There is a build up of sediment at the bottom of every tank. The fill tube doesn't go all the way to the bottom but during a fill they get stirred up. Yes, there are filters, and when the pump slowed down, we had to replace the filters. But if you think they catch everything then good luck to you.
If the filter replacement got too frequent, we would have to call and get the sediment pumped out.
Also, there is also water that settles at the bottom of every tank that gets stirred up which filters don't catch. We would have to check the tanks for water daily with a tank stick and water paste. More than 3" and the water had to be pumped out, which was at least once a month.
I won't fill up if a tanker is there dropping fuel!
Also, true that all fuel is the same, the difference is the additives from company to company. Sometimes a tanker would have to fill up at an independent fuel supplier, and the driver would just add the company's chemicals before filling up. That was 20 years ago, not sure if they still do it that way.
I learned a lot owning a gas station for 12 years but the most important thing I learned was that oil companies were the biggest crooks in the world!

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Biggd

There is a build up of sediment at the bottom of every tank. The fill tube doesn't go all the way to the bottom but during a fill they get stirred up. Yes, there are filters, and when the pump slowed down, we had to replace the filters. But if you think they catch everything then good luck to you.
If the filter replacement got too frequent, we would have to call and get the sediment pumped out.
Also, there is also water that settles at the bottom of every tank that gets stirred up which filters don't catch. We would have to check the tanks for water daily with a tank stick and water paste. More than 3" and the water had to be pumped out, which was at least once a month.
I won't fill up if a tanker is there dropping fuel!
Also, true that all fuel is the same, the difference is the additives from company to company. Sometimes a tanker would have to fill up at an independent fuel supplier, and the driver would just add the company's chemicals before filling up. That was 20 years ago, not sure if they still do it that way.
I learned a lot owning a gas station for 12 years but the most important thing I learned was that oil companies were the biggest crooks in the world!

They still do it like that. my friend owns several gas stations in San Diego, a couple branded and some independents told me the same story. All the brands trucks fill up at a tank farm that is supplied by a single pipeline which comes down from the refinery in Long Beach. It's just additives to the exact same gas. It's kind of fascinating really. 87, 91 or diesel all come in the same pipe with a plug separating them traveling thru the system. I'm sure this is common in most places, there are certainly not refineries for each brand

[TheTimeTraveler]

I remember back in 1973 when the gas station's underground storage tanks were having sediment issues not because they were being filled up, but rather consumers were using up every drop of fuel that the tanks held (and all that sediment was being sucked up).

We were in the midst of a so called serious energy shortage and lines formed at every gas station in the northeast and drained the underground tanks dry.

For some reason some other parts of the country didn't experience long lines at the gas station until sometime in the late 70's when they had the same issue.

Anyone remember gas for 27 cents a gallon? I do. I paid $2.69 a gallon yesterday @ Costco. That's about 10 times as much as I paid 52 years ago.

Anyone remember the odd even days when you could buy gas?

Anyone remember that you couldn't buy gas on a Sunday?

Time flies.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I remember back in 1973 when the gas station's underground storage tanks were having sediment issues not because they were being filled up, but rather consumers were using up every drop of fuel that the tanks held (and all that sediment was being sucked up).

We were in the midst of a so called serious energy shortage and lines formed at every gas station in the northeast and drained the underground tanks dry.

For some reason some other parts of the country didn't experience long lines at the gas station until sometime in the late 70's when they had the same issue.

Anyone remember gas for 27 cents a gallon? I do. I paid $2.69 a gallon yesterday @ Costco. That's about 10 times as much as I paid 52 years ago.

Anyone remember the odd even days when you could buy gas?

Anyone remember that you couldn't buy gas on a Sunday?

Time flies.

the tanks back then were plain steel coated with tar. I was working at the Tulsa station in Meredith (right across from the docks) during the gas lines. we tried, odd/even, gallon limits, off days. no matter what people complained so eventually we just took a delivery and sold it to whoever showed up first. At some point they put in new tanks and they had to hold the tank down with an excavator while the hole was backfilled because the tank was floating in water.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I remember back in 1973 when the gas station's underground storage tanks were having sediment issues not because they were being filled up, but rather consumers were using up every drop of fuel that the tanks held (and all that sediment was being sucked up).

We were in the midst of a so called serious energy shortage and lines formed at every gas station in the northeast and drained the underground tanks dry.

For some reason some other parts of the country didn't experience long lines at the gas station until sometime in the late 70's when they had the same issue.

Anyone remember gas for 27 cents a gallon? I do. I paid $2.69 a gallon yesterday @ Costco. That's about 10 times as much as I paid 52 years ago.

Anyone remember the odd even days when you could buy gas?

Anyone remember that you couldn't buy gas on a Sunday?

Time flies.

I pumped gas back then and worked on cars. We loved it, stay out at the pumps until 10am, then shut them down and work on cars without interruption.
I remember asking my boss for a raise and him saying no, only to learn years later that he was making tons of money during those fuel shortages because they had big market ups and sold all the fuel they could get.

[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I remember back in 1973 when the gas station's underground storage tanks were having sediment issues not because they were being filled up, but rather consumers were using up every drop of fuel that the tanks held (and all that sediment was being sucked up).

We were in the midst of a so called serious energy shortage and lines formed at every gas station in the northeast and drained the underground tanks dry.

For some reason some other parts of the country didn't experience long lines at the gas station until sometime in the late 70's when they had the same issue.

Anyone remember gas for 27 cents a gallon? I do. I paid $2.69 a gallon yesterday @ Costco. That's about 10 times as much as I paid 52 years ago.

Anyone remember the odd even days when you could buy gas?

Anyone remember that you couldn't buy gas on a Sunday?

Time flies.

I also remember not being able to get gas if your tank was more than half full. The attendant would stick his head in through the window to look at your gauge. All this after being in line for 15-30 minutes or more. And yes, Sundays. In Ma. couldn't buy beer on Sundays and couldn't get enough gas to go to NH to buy it.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Since recently buying a 2014 Scion xD with about 165k-miles for $5000 from Lakes Auto Sales and Detailing in Tilton, close to Home Depot, I have become something of a car guy or a car nut. This 4-cyl 5-speed Scion xD has a 125-hp engine similar to a Corolla engine and I must have got very LUCKY with this car because it's a real winner car with NO oil consuming engine like the Scion xB with a Camry engine. Sometimes, you just get l-u-c-k-y! ....

Anyway, Citgo vs Irving gasoline?

To my surprise Irving is not Top Tier rated, while Citgo is Top Tier rated which means that Citgo has better detergent and additives than Irving, or something.

And, I always thought that gas was gas, and only thing that matters is the price.

Another surprise is that Penguin Gas is Top Tier while Haffner is not which seems surprising to me but maybe my information is wrong on this? ......

But Haffners has non ethanol! Top tier or not that's all I use in small engines and motorcycles.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Since recently buying a 2014 Scion xD with about 165k-miles … I have become something of a car guy or a car nut.

That’s some funny stuff right there!

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by BillTex

ThatÂ’s some funny stuff right there!

#1 best Toyota ever ....... the 2014 (last year) Scion xD w/ 5-speed stick and 128-hp 4-cylinder, Corolla engine. Was available only in the Base model.

Bought it first week November for $5000 from Lakes Auto Sales and Detailing, Tilton, very close to Home Depot, and have driven 2000 local lakes region miles and one trip to Boston.

It drives, runs, and sounds fantastic with no, exactly zero orange or red warning lights, so far.

Think I'll switch from 0W-20 to 5W-20 all synthetic oil next time I do the oil and filter for better engine lubrication even though the filler cap says 0W-20.

This Scion xD, made by Toyota in Japan shoulda coulda woulda have been the historic ... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_xD ... replacement for the all-time #1 best seller, the VW Beetle and sold millions, world-wide.

Even the cruise control, air conditioner, and rear window wiper and defroster all work perfect ........ BANZAI! ....... Scion xD ...... made in Japan, somewhere, in 2014 and it now has about 166,500-miles.

It weighs 2668-lbs, has four doors and a rear hatch door and four electric windows, not the old hand cranks.

Do YOU want to feel LUCKY? Then go buy a $5000 car from Jeff at Lakes Auto Sales & Detailing, close to Home Depot.

For $14.78 I got a upgrade stick shift knob from eBay, and need to install it. Good luck doing this ... www.toyota.com/#xD .... with a ridiculous automatic transmission .......

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

#1 best Toyota ever ....... the 2014 (last year) Scion xD w/ 5-speed stick and 128-hp 4-cylinder, Corolla engine. Was available only in the Base model.

Bought it first week November for $5000 from Lakes Auto Sales and Detailing, Tilton, very close to Home Depot, and have driven 2000 local lakes region miles and one trip to Boston.

It drives, runs, and sounds fantastic with no, exactly zero orange or red warning lights, so far.

Think I'll switch from 0W-20 to 5W-20 all synthetic oil next time I do the oil and filter for better engine lubrication even though the filler cap says 0W-20.

This Scion xD, made by Toyota in Japan shoulda coulda woulda have been the historic ... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_xD ... replacement for the all-time #1 best seller, the VW Beetle and sold millions, world-wide.

Even the cruise control, air conditioner, and rear window wiper and defroster all work perfect ........ BANZAI! ....... Scion xD ...... made in Japan, somewhere, in 2014 and it now has about 166,500-miles.

It weighs 2668-lbs, has four doors and a rear hatch door and four electric windows, not the old hand cranks.

Do YOU want to feel LUCKY? Then go buy a $5000 car from Jeff at Lakes Auto Sales & Detailing, close to Home Depot.

For $14.78 I got a upgrade stick shift knob from eBay, and need to install it. Good luck doing this ... www.toyota.com/#xD .... with a ridiculous automatic transmission .......

Back in my day being a “car guy” meant V8 muscle power. I.e big lock vettes’, goats, Camaros.
Never heard that term applied to a 4 cyl economy car…times have changed.
Maybe you can show it at castle in the clouds next fall!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Back in my day being a “car guy” meant V8 muscle power. I.e big lock vettes’, goats, Camaros.

Never heard that term applied to a 4 cyl economy car…times have changed.

Maybe you can show it at castle in the clouds next fall!

These days it's less about engine size than uniqueness, customization, etc.

One of my favorite vehicles at Cars on Capital this year was the Scooby Doo Mystery Van.

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[BillTex]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

These days it's less about engine size than uniqueness, customization, etc.

One of my favorite vehicles at Cars on Capital this year was the Scooby Doo Mystery Van.

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This was our ride to the show:

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BillTex

This was our ride to the show:





Attachment 18960

Cars on Capital or when you were younger?

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[BillTex]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Cars on Capital or when you were younger?

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Couple weeks ago…

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Couple weeks ago…

Nice! Sweet ride. Maybe post when you'll be there next year, and I'll try to stop by and say hello.

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[fatlazyless]

That bright blue two-seater could be a Ferrari with a huge engine? It looks like a Ferrari. Probably runs best on 92-octane, Sunoco .... !

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BillTex

This was our ride to the show:


Attachment 18960

That's an expensive one!