Arsenic in the well !

[TOAD]

One big disappointment in Toad's household yesterday. All we needed was a title search and to close on the house in Moultonborough in around 2 weeks.

We exercised due diligence and went with the expensive thorough water test. Arsenic levels are half again what is considered acceptable and safe. Arsenic is a known carcinogen. With the wife's compromised immune system we can't take any chances so that house is out. Our three and a half year search for our retirement home continues. The house and location were everything we had been searching for.

The house is only ten years old and the seller built it for his mother to live in. We have the results of of the water tests he did at the time of the build in 2001. It was just a basic water quality/potability test, nothing more. His mother is currently being treated for cancer. No way to really know if there is a linkage with the water and her condition....but

I am very thankful that we did not try and do the inspections on the cheap.

Question? By NH law, do the seller and real estate agents have to disclose that the water has recently been tested and found to have elevated arsenic levels? I would think that the seller would be required to change the real estate disclosure form. I would certainly hope so anyway. Would hate to see someone try and save some money up front on the inspections and wind up paying the price, big time, at a later date.

[MarkinNH]

If this is the house you want, don't give up on it without researching all your options. There are filter systems readily available to deal with the arsenic issue.

[tis]

Arsenic is very common in wells in our area. You DO need to find out a little more.

[beagle]

Toad, Tis is right, it is a common problem in NH and not everyone is aware of or tests for it. Our house had it too, and like you we considered not putting in an offer. But I did some research and you need to install a whole house water treatment system. Call Thursty in Wolfeboro or Integrated Water in Moultonboro and have them both come out and give you a quote. The people who built our house installed reverse osmosis in the kitchen and bathroom sinks which takes care of the drinking water. However I found out that you can also get arsenic poisoning thru breathing in steam like in the shower! So now we have two columns that remove the arsenic where the water comes from the well. We have an annual water test and service and all is fine. Good Luck and don't give up hope!

[Newbiesaukee]

To echo what others have said, it is a common but manageable problem. Another factor is that this can change over time. Just because testing might be negative today, it could be positive upon later testing. We test ours every few years. Do the research and don't make this the deal breaker.

[TOAD]

Thanks for the responses. Been on the internet and on the phone with filtration companies. I'm learning. Problem does seem like it could be managed with reasonable yearly costs.

Nothing is easy.

[skibum]

Hi Toad,

Arsenic is certainly a manageable problem. The EPA recommended level for drinking water is 10 parts per billion. However, the recommended level for bathing and other uses is 500 parts per billion. So, if you don't mind drinking water from one or two locations in the house, you can put in reverse osmosis units at those locations. If, on the other hand you want drinkable water at all locations, you would need to put in a whole house system. Often the seller will cover the cost of whatever you decide on rather than losing the deal. Talk with your real estate agent about this.

I am the Water Quality Supervisor for Gilford Well and we have installed many arsenic systems in both residential and commercial locations throughout the state. We are on the recommended list by the NH Department of Environmental Services. I would welcome the opportunity to chat with you about your options. Also, my competitors mentioned in this thread are both very reputable companies.

Thanks,
Rick

[kjbathe]

"Also, my competitors mentioned in this thread are both very reputable companies."

Rick / skibum - THANKS for just being a decent individual willing to say that. In a world where folks are increasingly rotten to one another, you made my day.

And to keep on topic, I echo the other comments. This is not a deal breaker, it's just an item to resolve on the home you want. Propose a solution and get to "yes".

[NHBUOY]

Tres diplomatique comment SB. skiers...they're like that..

[CL 240 LS]

Read this blog entry here on this forum:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/blog.php?b=148

[TOAD]

Thanks for the info and help folks.

Unfortunately we got the radon air tests back yesterday and they were unacceptably high. Means we would have to put in some kind of mitigation system also. There are a few other things concerning the house and property that we know we would have to fix to get the property up to snuff. We were willing to overlook those costs and bite the bullet. Although the property had almost everything we wanted with the bad water test and radon air tests, combined with the other problems that we were willing to get fixed it is just too much.

We withdrew our offer to buy this morning.

Our search continues.

And to add insult to injury as the Missus was leaving for work this morning she gave me a kiss and said, "Happy Anniversary...it's 39 years today.... in case you forgot".

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Maybe we can remind you a few days ahead for next year. You don't want to forget that one.

Radon is a pretty common issue in NH as Radon is released by granite. So it gets into most of our cellars and well water. There is a lot of controversy on what level of radon is a reasonable risk. When we bought our house about 17 years ago, the EPA had recently dropped the acceptable level again. At the level (4 pCi/L) the EPA suggest mitigation, they calculate that of a 1000 non smokers, 7 would develop lung cancer from exposure to the radon during their life. At the average US house level of 1.3 pCi/L they anticipate about 2 people per 1000 to get lung cancer. Radon combined with smoking is an entirely different story. Not a good combination.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by TOAD

....

And to add insult to injury as the Missus was leaving for work this morning she gave me a kiss and said, "Happy Anniversary...it's 39 years today.... in case you forgot".

You better scramble and get something before she gets back from work. And if you miss next year, radon and arsenic will be the least of your worries.

Back on topic, I'm a sceptic when it comes to the causal relationship between very specific levels of these chemicals and health issues. But the important thing is your view, never buy something as important as a house if you have doubts about it. It doesn't matter if the health risk is meaningful or not, if you believe it is meaningful, you won't be comfortable in the house.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by jrc

It doesn't matter if the health risk is meaningful or not, if you believe it is meaningful, you won't be comfortable in the house.

Find a home without these issues. These issues may not be important to others. And remedies are available. But you will probably continue to find issues. I'd just move on.

Me, I have had home tested for radon. But not for arsenic. Maybe I should.

Find a home that meets all of your requirements.

[beagle]

It seems a shame to risk losing your buyer! Can you rent up here while you look? Then you would get a better feel for different areas cuz you would be here all the time. It seems I have seen people looking for renters just for the winter months so I don't think it would have to be a long term commitment on your part. Just a thought, good luck Toad!

[tis]

I wholeheartedly agree with beagle. I would sell while you have the buyer. You never know what is going to happen.

[CateP]

I too agree with beagle. As a current seller I can tell you that the market is historically slow. If I had a buyer and didn't have a house to buy yet, I would sell in a heartbeat. I would pack up the house, put most of it in storage and BE FREE!

My former partner is looking at winter rentals in the area now and my, there ARE some really nice ones. (waterfront mansion-check Spencer Hughes)

[Irish mist]

Dude....if you have a buyer sell your house & rent up here. Your buyer is not going to wait forever. And like I told you in my PM check out Nature's View in Laconia for new construction at a good price that is somewhat secluded (some lake view lots) but gives you all the city services cause you don't seem cut out for country living. And no I have no connection to Nature's View

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by TOAD

Thanks for the info and help folks.

Unfortunately we got the radon air tests back yesterday and they were unacceptably high. Means we would have to put in some kind of mitigation system also. There are a few other things concerning the house and property that we know we would have to fix to get the property up to snuff. We were willing to overlook those costs and bite the bullet. Although the property had almost everything we wanted with the bad water test and radon air tests, combined with the other problems that we were willing to get fixed it is just too much. We have water that sits exactly on the EPA "limit" and have an RO system.

We withdrew our offer to buy this morning.

Our search continues.

Late to the party on this one. Just realize that if you are concerned about Arsenic it is extremely common in well water in Vt, NH, and ME. For about $900 you can get a reverese osmosis sytem that removes it and is plumbed to you sink (ie, drinking water) taps as well as the refrigerator which make syour ice. The lowered the As level about 10 years ago and now just about every house with a well is at or above that limit. Even if it tests fine today the level can fluctuate with the water table. A lot of people don't know this.... This would not be a show stopper for me.

As far as radon, is it a basement you would be living in? If not, again should not be a show stopper. A system is not much more than a fan to bring in fresh air.

From your posts it seems like you were 100% sold on the house to begin with.

If you want to live in the "country" without the benefit of city water and septic, these are things that you will face.

[steadyon]

Hi toad,
sorry to hear the news! as far as the arsenic, as others have said it is remediable.
with the radon air results, what was the reading, what type of test was used?
I would definately recommend testing radon a second time if you get an elevated reading.
good luck!

[TOAD]

We withdrew our offer on the house a week ago. We knew that the arsenic and the radon problems could be remedied with the investment of some dollars. We had contacted several companies to find out when, how and how much the problems could be fixed. We were going to proceed.

Toward the end of the inspections (only needed septic) we grew more uncomfortable with some of the statements made by the real estate agents. There were also some other problems with the house that time and money could also fix. There was some intransigence on the sellers part to remedy or at least meet us halfway on some of these things. I have to assume it was the owner because real estate agents can muddy the pie somewhat what when communications are going back and forth. There were also some statements made by the agents that just didn't seem quite right. No need to go into any more detail.

It is unfortunate because we have a buyer waiting in the wings for our house here in western Mass. I am concerned that they will not wait too long for us to find a house up there. They have already been waiting a year. Our communications with the buyers have been very amicable. They know everything about our house because we have shown them everything. No miscommunication down here.

We loved the house and the location. Unfortunately, as I stated, we just didn't feel at ease as the sale progressed. I am old enough to know that. "If it don't feel right.....don't do it!"