Online Boater Safety Test... SCRAPPED!

Woodsy · 04-21-2006, 09:13 AM

Here is a link to the story in the Citizen.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...055/-1/CITIZEN

The story didn't say if the Senate eliminated the temporary boaters certificate.

The story also went on to say the Senate passed the boat noise bill as well, raising the fine for a noisy boat from $100 to $250. The noise bill also allows a new, easier form of noise testing.

Woodsy

codeman671 · 04-21-2006, 09:36 AM

When does this take effect? The article did not mention an effective date.

Woodsy · 04-21-2006, 10:26 AM

I would assume Jan 1 next year providing the governor signs the legislation....

Woodsy

Woodsy · 04-21-2006, 10:56 AM

I just got this from the Statehouse Reporter for Fosters in reference to the temporary certificates....

Sorry that got cut out of the story ... they kept temp certificates but raised
the fee from $5 to $10, I believe. They also added a provision that a person
can only get one temporary license in a 12-month period.
Again, thought I had that in the story but it must have gotten cut.

Woodsy

jrc · 04-21-2006, 11:32 AM

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...06/hb1463.html

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...06/hb1624.html

They really don't clear up all the questions either. No mention of the status of people who already took the online test. But the effective date is 1-1-2007.

BTW the version of HB1624 on the website still has some of the other safety laws we discussed before.

Flags or whistles for canoes and kayaks
Skier down flag
No onshore lights that look like boats

jetskier · 04-23-2006, 05:20 PM

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone had the chart indicting the age of mandatory compliance with the boater education certification. I took a classroom course last year (The jetskier got the highest test score

). My wife has not gotten around to this and I just want to verify when we have to do this.

Thanx in advance!

Jetskier

SBC · 04-23-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone had the chart indicting the age of mandatory compliance with the boater education certification. I took a classroom course last year (The jetskier got the highest test score

). My wife has not gotten around to this and I just want to verify when we have to do this.

Thanx in advance!

Jetskier

Jetskier,

This year the age range is 16 to 43, inclusive. That is to say that if you are operating over 25hp and are in that age range you need your BE Cert before operating this year. The little chart is also in the NH boating guide, the little one you keep in your boat’s glove box and that you got from your marina, NHMP or the shows.

She can not drive under your certificate, even with you on the boat.

Can't say as I am disappointed about the Senate's choice to eliminate the on-line testing. MP Officers have said that when they make stops and the offending operator has had a NH certificate, about 80 % took the on-line course. Things that make you go Hmmmm...

Guess there will be a big rush for the real live ask-the-instructor-questions-and-enjoy-the-interaction-with-other-live-boaters type of class. Just like the good old days. Too bad for the out-of-state folks though. That was a good way for them to at least get a bit more out of the NH state laws than they might through some of the agents who administer the temp certs.

NonVoting Taxpayer · 04-24-2006, 10:50 AM

The articles is quoted as saying 82% of the boaters took the test online. Simple statistical math would tell you it makes sense that 80% of the violators are also the ones that took the test online.
What am I missing?
When it was 40% online, was the ratio also 40% online and 60% classroom? I bet it was.
Too bad New Hampshire can't keep up with technology. Some people who own a house and only come up for the weekend are not going to want to waste a day in a classroom.

Woodsy · 04-24-2006, 10:59 AM

NVT...

NH has kept up just fine with technology... the issue is that cheating on the internet test abounds... it is essentially an open book test. With a proctored exam you can be sure that the "cheating" while not eliminated, is surely kept to a minimum.

The law doesn't go into effect until Jan 01, 2007 so you still have time to take the internet test. Its really only going to effect the oldest boaters who haven't yet tested and newbie boaters. There is no provision in the law to make those who have taken the exam on the internet re-take the exam. Once the the law goes into effect you can still get all of the material online, but you will be required to have a proctored exam.

Woodsy

Merrymeeting · 04-24-2006, 11:03 AM

The problem with the online test is that it is on the "honor system". I.e., someone with less honor could take the test while looking up the answers in the training material. If they never studied or really understood the material, they could still pass.

I took the course online, as did my teenagers. But I made sure that they did so without the book and understood the material before doing so.

If they could figure out a way to monitor the testing online, that would work. But the technology isn't there yet.

Gatto Nero · 04-24-2006, 11:45 AM

I would think a monitored online test would be a pretty simple process. As Woodsy stated, the course matter will still be online so anybody who only comes up infrequently can still do a majority of the work at their leisure. The state could easily set up test stations at town halls or local marinas. These test stations would have access to the same online version of the test that we see now but there would be someone there to verify the identity of the person taking the test. I'm sure if somebody really wanted to cheat the system they could find a way but for the most part I think it would solve the problem without overly inconveniencing anybody.

SBC · 04-25-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

..... Some people who own a house and only come up for the weekend are not going to want to waste a day in a classroom.

Think about those 'estimated' statistics. Doesn't that tell you that some of those people taking the course on-line are just not getting it? They want to get a piece of plastic that says they passed a test but they don't want to earn that privilege to operate. Just enough to get by...the mantra of underachievers everywhere.

Of all the boaters (even the ones who 'have been boating for 40-whatever years') I have talked to that have taken the classroom course, time and time again they have said that they learned or came away with something that was new or that they didn't know before. There is nothing like an instructor to ask questions of and the interaction with others in a classroom environment to help to learn those most important rules of the road for safe boating.

Anybody else think that is a waste of 7-8 hours for a lifetime certificate?

Woodsy · 04-25-2006, 07:35 AM

The new law does not require you to take a classroom course.... It only requires a proctored exam...

Woodsy

Skipper of the Sea Que · 04-23-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

I was wondering if anyone had the chart indicting the age of mandatory compliance with the boater education certification. I took a classroom course last year (The jetskier got the highest test score

). My wife has not gotten around to this and I just want to verify when we have to do this. Jetskier

Here's the link to that chart.NH Boater Ed Certificate age/date requirement

In addition to date of birth, there are other circumstances that require that you have a certificate regardless of your age.

For instance, if you let any under age (less than 16 years old I think) take the helm of your vessel (over 25 hp) under your supervision, you MUST have a valid Boater Education Certificate.

Safe boating

KonaChick · 04-24-2006, 07:53 AM

I thought the on-line course was a good alternative. The only thing that is going to make you a good boater is experience. Wether you take an online course or classroom course, experience is your true teacher.

jetskier · 04-24-2006, 05:17 PM

I would generally agree that experience is the best teacher, however, the value of the instructional material is quite important. It is key to understand the safety requirements of your boat. It is key to understand which boat has the right of way and when. It is key to understand the markers and buoys etc... None of those things are forgiving if you learn by experience.

Personally, I took the online course and then a classroom course. The classroom course was given by the NH Power Squadron and it was much more comprehensive than the online course. I thought that I knew all the material from the online course...wrong! Everyone can benefit from this type of course and I am glad to see it become mandated. The online course is silly; you can open a window to take the test and another to look up the answer. Come on!

As far as safety and courtesy are concerned, we can all stand a course or two...and that coming from a jetskier. Go figure.

Jetskier

jrc · 04-24-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

... The online course is silly; you can open a window to take the test and another to look up the answer. Come on!

As far as safety and courtesy are concerned, we can all stand a course or two...and that coming from a jetskier. Go figure.

Jetskier

Yes, it is incredibly easy to cheat on the online test. At least in that case the person taking the test has to know the answers at least for that few seconds.

I think the biggest problem with the online test is people taking the test for other people. I've heard of at least one family where one person aced the test for everyone. My wife heard too, and she keeps hinting

This test and the classes for it are no substitute from actual experience operating a boat. The intent is to teach people the rules, not the technique. A state mandated class and test for boat handing and operational skills, would be difficult for many reasons. Not the least of which is the many different kinds of boats.

KonaChick · 04-25-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

I would generally agree that experience is the best teacher, however, the value of the instructional material is quite important. It is key to understand the safety requirements of your boat. It is key to understand which boat has the right of way and when. It is key to understand the markers and buoys etc... None of those things are forgiving if you learn by experience.

Personally, I took the online course and then a classroom course. The classroom course was given by the NH Power Squadron and it was much more comprehensive than the online course. I thought that I knew all the material from the online course...wrong! Everyone can benefit from this type of course and I am glad to see it become mandated. The online course is silly; you can open a window to take the test and another to look up the answer. Come on!

As far as safety and courtesy are concerned, we can all stand a course or two...and that coming from a jetskier. Go figure.

Yes agreed jetskier! The value of the instructional material is quite imporant. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can take all the tests in the world either on-line or classroom but the true teacher is still going to be experience. I guess it's a bit redundant because one can't legally be gaining the experience w/out first passing a test according to the law anyway!

William_Philipp · 06-20-2006, 02:26 PM

Online is much easier, but classroom is a pain to go to sometimes. its one of those win-lose situations. I think experience is invaluable as well as instruction. I have taken 2 course, one online and one classroom for different sates,a nd now I am about to take another course for NH, each one is different. I think the online boating exam should just be for a qualified boater. Someone who has the situation like me, I have passed two other courses and really to go through a classroom again is a waste of my time and money, its should just be subject to a minimal few. Or even online can have a higher age limit? maybe 21 or something. Just a few suggestions.

John A. Birdsall · 06-21-2006, 01:31 PM

Bike week is over, most states I believe have a requirement of classroom education to drive a motor vechicle on the streets, and a test written and driving. this is great.. However their were 10 motor cycle related deaths in NH this past Motor Cycle week. Now add to that the number of people that were killed in the same period driving cars and trucks. All Classroom and on the road experience.

This shoots a hole in my opinion on the boaters education, That being said, I think it is good to have people learn what they are doing prior to doing so. But itt takes a willingness to obey the laws both on land and on water, and that is not being done. Therefore, we need to have fines tripled, registrations pulled, licenses pulled, and if the person is intoxicated, take him into custody and confiscate his boat.

Dave R · 06-21-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

Bike week is over, most states I believe have a requirement of classroom education to drive a motor vechicle on the streets, and a test written and driving. this is great.. However their were 10 motor cycle related deaths in NH this past Motor Cycle week. Now add to that the number of people that were killed in the same period driving cars and trucks. All Classroom and on the road experience.

This shoots a hole in my opinion on the boaters education, That being said, I think it is good to have people learn what they are doing prior to doing so. But itt takes a willingness to obey the laws both on land and on water, and that is not being done. Therefore, we need to have fines tripled, registrations pulled, licenses pulled, and if the person is intoxicated, take him into custody and confiscate his boat.

We can enact very strict laws and enforce them with stiff fines and people will still occasionally fail to pay attention at some critical juncture and kill or die for it (or trees will fall on them). It's impossible to prepare for every possible situation. I suppose that's what makes religion so popular. Having an afterlife in your plans probably makes passing on easier to deal with.

I am a strong believer in the virtues of good training; even if self-administered, like the online boating course. It's helped me be a better/safer boater. I have to confess that it's been 28 years since I took a classroom boating course. I have kept up with my studies on my own though.

I also like hands-on training, like the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Experienced Rider Course. I don't have any statistics to back it up but I bet folks who passed the MSF ERC are far less likely to be killed (on a motorcycle) than untrained or unlicensed riders, for every mile they ride. There are some things about riding that are just not intuitive for many people and training can make a big difference for them. I took the ERC a few years ago and did not learn anything new, mainly because I am pretty active in the motorcycle "community" and have friends that teach ERC, but lots of my classmates learned a lot of new techniques during the class. It was fun to see them learn how to operate a bike skillfully.

Sadly, I saw very little skilled riding last weekend around the lake. Obviously-skilled riders were tremendously in the minority. My favorite affirmation of lack of skills is the classic "duck walk" you see folks do at slow speeds because they are afraid to lift their feet onto the pegs, lest they tip over. It just screams "Don't ride with me!", to me. That is not a person I'd want on a group ride, not that I go on group rides anymore... My second favorite is the folks you see on sport bikes with their arms straight and elbows locked. That's gotta hurt your wrists pretty quickly.

jrc · 06-21-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

We can enact very strict laws and enforce them with stiff fines and people will still occasionally fail to pay attention at some critical juncture and kill or die for it (or trees will fall on them)...

....Sadly, I saw very little skilled riding last weekend around the lake. Obviously-skilled riders were tremendously in the minority. My favorite affirmation of lack of skills is the classic "duck walk" you see folks do at slow speeds because they are afraid to lift their feet onto the pegs, lest they tip over. It just screams "Don't ride with me!", to me. That is not a person I'd want on a group ride, not that I go on group rides anymore... My second favorite is the folks you see on sport bikes with their arms straight and elbows locked. That's gotta hurt your wrists pretty quickly.

You can train and it will reduce accidents but you can't ever stop them completely. People are fallible and fragile, all the training and all the safety gear in the world won't fix that.

A lot of last weekend's riders bought a Harley as their first bike because it was cool. They really don't have a lot of experience riding. They trailer them up and then just ride bar to bar.

William_Philipp · 06-22-2006, 02:20 AM

Kind of like a person driving a car. Experience does matter sometimes, but others it is completely different matter if someone does something stupid with their car, but they have plenty experience. Experience is key, but not always the best solution.

Rayhunt · 06-23-2006, 09:16 AM

I was told by a MP officer that some if not all the online testers will be grandfathered in..

04-21-2006, 09:13 AM	#1
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Online Boater Safety Test... SCRAPPED! Here is a link to the story in the Citizen. http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...055/-1/CITIZEN The story didn't say if the Senate eliminated the temporary boaters certificate. The story also went on to say the Senate passed the boat noise bill as well, raising the fine for a noisy boat from $100 to $250. The noise bill also allows a new, easier form of noise testing. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-21-2006, 10:26 AM	#3
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	I would assume Jan 1 next year providing the governor signs the legislation.... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-21-2006, 10:56 AM	#4
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	I just got this from the Statehouse Reporter for Fosters in reference to the temporary certificates.... Sorry that got cut out of the story ... they kept temp certificates but raised the fee from $5 to $10, I believe. They also added a provision that a person can only get one temporary license in a 12-month period. Again, thought I had that in the story but it must have gotten cut. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-21-2006, 11:32 AM	#5
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Here are the bills http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...06/hb1463.html http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...06/hb1624.html They really don't clear up all the questions either. No mention of the status of people who already took the online test. But the effective date is 1-1-2007. BTW the version of HB1624 on the website still has some of the other safety laws we discussed before. Flags or whistles for canoes and kayaks Skier down flag No onshore lights that look like boats

04-23-2006, 05:20 PM	#6
jetskier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores Posts: 858 Thanks: 58 Thanked 183 Times in 114 Posts	Boater Certification Hi all, I was wondering if anyone had the chart indicting the age of mandatory compliance with the boater education certification. I took a classroom course last year (The jetskier got the highest test score ). My wife has not gotten around to this and I just want to verify when we have to do this. Thanx in advance! Jetskier

04-21-2006, 09:36 AM	#2
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,604 Thanks: 223 Thanked 856 Times in 519 Posts	When does this take effect? The article did not mention an effective date.

04-24-2006, 10:50 AM	#8
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	80% Makes sense The articles is quoted as saying 82% of the boaters took the test online. Simple statistical math would tell you it makes sense that 80% of the violators are also the ones that took the test online. What am I missing? When it was 40% online, was the ratio also 40% online and 60% classroom? I bet it was. Too bad New Hampshire can't keep up with technology. Some people who own a house and only come up for the weekend are not going to want to waste a day in a classroom.

04-24-2006, 10:59 AM	#9
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	NVT... NH has kept up just fine with technology... the issue is that cheating on the internet test abounds... it is essentially an open book test. With a proctored exam you can be sure that the "cheating" while not eliminated, is surely kept to a minimum. The law doesn't go into effect until Jan 01, 2007 so you still have time to take the internet test. Its really only going to effect the oldest boaters who haven't yet tested and newbie boaters. There is no provision in the law to make those who have taken the exam on the internet re-take the exam. Once the the law goes into effect you can still get all of the material online, but you will be required to have a proctored exam. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-24-2006, 11:03 AM	#10
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,228 Thanks: 304 Thanked 799 Times in 368 Posts	The problem with the online test is that it is on the "honor system". I.e., someone with less honor could take the test while looking up the answers in the training material. If they never studied or really understood the material, they could still pass. I took the course online, as did my teenagers. But I made sure that they did so without the book and understood the material before doing so. If they could figure out a way to monitor the testing online, that would work. But the technology isn't there yet.

04-24-2006, 11:45 AM	#11
Gatto Nero Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Isola Gatto Nero Posts: 697 Thanks: 162 Thanked 263 Times in 81 Posts	Monitored test I would think a monitored online test would be a pretty simple process. As Woodsy stated, the course matter will still be online so anybody who only comes up infrequently can still do a majority of the work at their leisure. The state could easily set up test stations at town halls or local marinas. These test stations would have access to the same online version of the test that we see now but there would be someone there to verify the identity of the person taking the test. I'm sure if somebody really wanted to cheat the system they could find a way but for the most part I think it would solve the problem without overly inconveniencing anybody. __________________ La vita è buona su Isola Gatto Nero

04-25-2006, 07:35 AM	#13
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	The new law does not require you to take a classroom course.... It only requires a proctored exam... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-24-2006, 07:53 AM	#15
KonaChick Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 518 Thanks: 19 Thanked 62 Times in 15 Posts	I thought the on-line course was a good alternative. The only thing that is going to make you a good boater is experience. Wether you take an online course or classroom course, experience is your true teacher.

04-24-2006, 05:17 PM	#16
jetskier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores Posts: 858 Thanks: 58 Thanked 183 Times in 114 Posts	Boater Safety Test I would generally agree that experience is the best teacher, however, the value of the instructional material is quite important. It is key to understand the safety requirements of your boat. It is key to understand which boat has the right of way and when. It is key to understand the markers and buoys etc... None of those things are forgiving if you learn by experience. Personally, I took the online course and then a classroom course. The classroom course was given by the NH Power Squadron and it was much more comprehensive than the online course. I thought that I knew all the material from the online course...wrong! Everyone can benefit from this type of course and I am glad to see it become mandated. The online course is silly; you can open a window to take the test and another to look up the answer. Come on! As far as safety and courtesy are concerned, we can all stand a course or two...and that coming from a jetskier. Go figure. Jetskier

06-20-2006, 02:26 PM	#19
William_Philipp Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Southbury, CT (for now) Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I see what you guys are saying.. Online is much easier, but classroom is a pain to go to sometimes. its one of those win-lose situations. I think experience is invaluable as well as instruction. I have taken 2 course, one online and one classroom for different sates,a nd now I am about to take another course for NH, each one is different. I think the online boating exam should just be for a qualified boater. Someone who has the situation like me, I have passed two other courses and really to go through a classroom again is a waste of my time and money, its should just be subject to a minimal few. Or even online can have a higher age limit? maybe 21 or something. Just a few suggestions.

06-21-2006, 01:31 PM	#20
John A. Birdsall Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norwich, CT Posts: 599 Thanks: 27 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	education certificates Bike week is over, most states I believe have a requirement of classroom education to drive a motor vechicle on the streets, and a test written and driving. this is great.. However their were 10 motor cycle related deaths in NH this past Motor Cycle week. Now add to that the number of people that were killed in the same period driving cars and trucks. All Classroom and on the road experience. This shoots a hole in my opinion on the boaters education, That being said, I think it is good to have people learn what they are doing prior to doing so. But itt takes a willingness to obey the laws both on land and on water, and that is not being done. Therefore, we need to have fines tripled, registrations pulled, licenses pulled, and if the person is intoxicated, take him into custody and confiscate his boat.

06-22-2006, 02:20 AM	#23
William_Philipp Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Southbury, CT (for now) Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Like a car. Kind of like a person driving a car. Experience does matter sometimes, but others it is completely different matter if someone does something stupid with their car, but they have plenty experience. Experience is key, but not always the best solution.

06-23-2006, 09:16 AM	#24
Rayhunt Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gilford NH Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hmm I was told by a MP officer that some if not all the online testers will be grandfathered in..