Canoeist gets charged with BWI

[SIKSUKR]

At the risk of starting another heated debate,I found this article about an accident on Pawtuckaway Lake.I'm sure Don will decide if this is ok to post.

Man Charged With Drunken Boating After Canoe Rescue

POSTED: 11:16 am EDT August 20, 2007


NOTTINGHAM, N.H. -- Authorities rescued -- then arrested -- a Massachusetts man who got in trouble while canoeing at Pawtuckaway State Park.

New Hampshire Marine Patrol said a man and woman had to be rescued after their canoe overturned near the park beach Sunday evening. Officials said the couple had a hard time staying above water and had to be helped to shore by two off-duty lifeguards.

After the lifeguards helped Charles McCollin, 25, of Somerville, Mass., out of the water, he was taken to Exeter Hospital to be treated for a cut on his head. He was then arrested and charged with boating while intoxicated.

[4Fun]

I guess I don't really see the problem with drunken canoeing. What harm can come of it?? If you drown yourself how does that effect me? Just make the people who were saved pay for the rescue and move on....

If they have kids in the canoe then you can charge them with endangerment...That's another issue....

[GTO]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I guess I don't really see the problem with drunken canoeing. What harm can come of it?? If you drown yourself how does that effect me? Just make the people who were saved pay for the rescue and move on....

If they have kids in the canoe then you can charge them with endangerment...That's another issue....

what if someone from the rescue team gets hurt or killed trying to rescue this person.....

[Captain Zipper]

I'm with 4Fun on this one including for him to pay for the rescue.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I guess I don't really see the problem with drunken canoeing. What harm can come of it?? If you drown yourself how does that effect me? Just make the people who were saved pay for the rescue and move on....

If they have kids in the canoe then you can charge them with endangerment...That's another issue....

So you are telling me in this case that you have no regard for the lives of the rescuers? Accidents do happen and people do drown, and so could a rescuer attempting to save the life of a drunken canoer. Also, if rescuers are out trying to save the lives of a stupid drunken canoer they are not available to save someone else who may need it.

[sky_nh]

At least it wasn't some gas-guzzlin power boat that could have run over some children and left gasoline pollution all over. Yea, make the guy pay a fine and eat some milfoil or something.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by codeman671

So you are telling me in this case that you have no regard for the lives of the rescuers? Accidents do happen and people do drown, and so could a rescuer attempting to save the life of a drunken canoer. Also, if rescuers are out trying to save the lives of a stupid drunken canoer they are not available to save someone else who may need it.

Of course I have regard for the rescuers. It just seems our government is becoming more of a nanny every day but I'm not likely to do much drunk canoeing anymore so this is not really an issue for me today....

Maybe they could fly the martini flag to signify no recue needed

[Kamper]

[QUOTE=4Fun]I guess I don't really see the problem with drunken canoeing. What harm can come of it?? If you drown yourself how does that effect me? ... QUOTE]

Well, I suppose he could jump or fall out of it and you might run into the canoe or the person. Then you'd have to get your prop sharpenned.

[Islander]

I never thought of BWI in connection with a canoe.

BWI pertains to the operator. If three people are in a canoe who is the operator?

I guess if you are being stopped you hand the paddle to the sober person in the canoe.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by sky_nh

...... and eat some milfoil or something.

sky_nh: You are too funny!!! ...thanx for a good laugh!

[jrc]

Islander, who says there has to be only one operator? Any one with a paddle is an operator.

In general, I'm on the fence with this. Yes, operating a canoe while drunk is dangerous for you, your passengers and rescuers, and it should be illegal. But, lumping this offense in with BWI and all ramifications that has on your automobile driving record and auto insurance is a punishment that doesn't fit the crime.

Paddling a canoe drunk just is not in the same league as driving a car or boat drunk.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Islander

I never thought of BWI in connection with a canoe.

BWI pertains to the operator. If three people are in a canoe who is the operator?

I guess if you are being stopped you hand the paddle to the sober person in the canoe.

You raise some very important and obvious points that make it very hard if not impossible for a court to accept the fact that a boating (or driving...if land based) while intoxicated charge applies to a non-motorized vessel or vehicle.

While the definition of boat under this particular statute could encompass a canoe or kayak, proving who the operator is (unless the poor sap was alone) will be mighty interesting. Also, a good defense attorney is going to challenge the legislative intent of the law and argue that the enhanced penalties and automatic driver's license suspension were intended for mechanized vehicles or vessels.

Not too long ago a bicyclist in the southern tier of the State was arrested for DWI on his bicycle. If I remember correctly some argued here that under the law a bicycle was a car, even though much of the motor vehicle code cannot be applied to a bicycle just by it's (the bicycle's) inherent design and operation.

Many of us out in the field were watching the case with great interest, wondering if it would end up in Superior or Supreme Court with a definitive answer. However, as the case wound along the prosecutors decided that most likely a conviction would not withstand appeal and therefore plea bargained the issue, hence no DWI conviction or subsequent case law.

It would have been a very interesting case!

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Skip

You raise some very important and obvious points that make it very hard if not impossible for a court to accept the fact that a boating (or driving...if land based) while intoxicated charge applies to a non-motorized vessel or vehicle.

While the definition of boat under this particular statute could encompass a canoe or kayak, proving who the operator is (unless the poor sap was alone) will be mighty interesting. Also, a good defense attorney is going to challenge the legislative intent of the law and argue that the enhanced penalties and automatic driver's license suspension were intended for mechanized vehicles or vessels.

Not too long ago a bicyclist in the southern tier of the State was arrested for DWI on his bicycle. If I remember correctly some argued here that under the law a bicycle was a car, even though much of the motor vehicle code cannot be applied to a bicycle just by it's (the bicycle's) inherent design and operation.

Many of us out in the field were watching the case with great interest, wondering if it would end up in Superior or Supreme Court with a definitive answer. However, as the case wound along the prosecutors decided that most likely a conviction would not withstand appeal and therefore plea bargained the issue, hence no DWI conviction or subsequent case law.

It would have been a very interesting case!

I am impressed that this individual could keep the canoe from tipping for any period of time while intoxicated. That is actually quite good.

I think that this is quite overdone. I understand the issue with having to be rescued, however, there are a number of dunderhead things that one could do requiring rescue and without legal consequence. My suggestion is make the individual pay a fine then buy him a beer. Oh yes, then he will have to carry his canoe home...or is that illegal?

Jetskier

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by jetskier

I am impressed that this individual could keep the canoe from tipping for any period of time while intoxicated. That is actually quite good.

It's really not that hard to canoe drunk. Drunk canoeing at night was a bigger challange.... So I'm told

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

Maybe they could fly the martini flag to signify no recue needed

Then they can keep the flag for the back of their sleds this winter when they skim open water.

BWI, uhm, err. But there should be some ramifications, especially if he's tying up resources (off duty lifeguard, cops at hospital) that I have to pay for via taxes and such, so I like the big ol' stupid fine for this one.

[Nauset]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

NOTTINGHAM, N.H. -- Authorities rescued -- then arrested -- a Massachusetts man who got in trouble while canoeing at Pawtuckaway State Park.

New Hampshire Marine Patrol said a man and woman had to be rescued after their canoe overturned near the park beach Sunday evening. Officials said the couple had a hard time staying above water and had to be helped to shore by two off-duty lifeguards.

After the lifeguards helped Charles McCollin, 25, of Somerville, Mass., out of the water, he was taken to Exeter Hospital to be treated for a cut on his head. He was then arrested and charged with boating while intoxicated.

The article states that the couple was out on Sunday evening. I wonder if they were displaying the proper lighting on the canoe. Perhaps in their intoxicated state they might have paddled into an area where they could be struck by a power boat causing the occupant of the power boat to be thrown overboard. Resulting in an out of control power boat. That sounds vaguely familiar.

[KBoater]

Is it DWI or BWI or CWI? Of course there is KWI,RWI, WSWI, JSWI etc. I seem to remember a friend that often did RWI.

[Winnipesaukee]

Waterskiing while intoxicated???

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Nauset

The article states that the couple was out on Sunday evening. I wonder if they were displaying the proper lighting on the canoe. Perhaps in their intoxicated state they might have paddled into an area where they could be struck by a power boat causing the occupant of the power boat to be thrown overboard. Resulting in an out of control power boat. That sounds vaguely familiar.

I live quite close to Pawtuckaway State Park. If they were canoeing near the beach, they were not in any danger of being run down by a legally operated boat at speed. The whole beach area is strewn with islands (it's extremely pretty), swim lines and no wake zones.


Not the best picture but the beach is easy to spot.

I'd be willing to bet the police would have just helped the people ashore and left, 30 years ago. Now they'd be sued if they did that and those folks later drowned.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Nauset

The article states that the couple was out on Sunday evening. I wonder if they were displaying the proper lighting on the canoe. Perhaps in their intoxicated state they might have paddled into an area where they could be struck by a power boat causing the occupant of the power boat to be thrown overboard. Resulting in an out of control power boat. That sounds vaguely familiar.

Hey, at least they weren't neckid. BWN?