New buoys to aid in 150' rule
 

Here's a link to todays Citizen about the new buoy system to be tested on the lake.
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...211/-1/CITIZEN

When I look at the placement of the Center Harbor buoys it appears to me that they are placed 150' from shore but much closer than that to the end of the dock. Wouldn't you think they'd place them 150' from the the dock since that's where you need to be at headway speed? Then again maybe they did do that and my idea of what 150' looks like is completely off.

Friday, August 11, 2006
New buoys to aid boaters


By JAMES MITCHELL
Staff Writer


GILFORD— A new buoy system has instituted to help boaters observe speed limits close to shore, say state officials.

The new white, green striped buoys mark the 150 feet that boaters are required to maintain from shore with a no-wake speed when they are approaching land.

"The headway rule is one of the most common violations that safety officers see," said Safety Services Director David Barrett.

The idea came from existing buoys that Marine Patrol has off its headquarters' docks in Gilford. The buoys serve as a reminder to officers not only when to observe headway speed but, more importantly, what 150 feet really looks like on the water.

"It occurred to us that we do that with our officers, why not do the same with the public?" said Barrett.

Barrett noted that, with the ever-increasing crowds on the waterways, especially on Lake Winnipesaukee, it is important that boaters make a conscious effort to maintain the required distance and speed to keep everyone on the lake safe. He added that the buoys are a good way for the Safety Department to remind boaters of the distance that is required.

The new buoys are a part of an ongoing effort by the Department of Safety to try and educate boaters on important safety issues on New Hampshire's waterways. Lake Winnipesaukee will be a test pilot for the new buoys.

Barrett said it is important for boaters not only to maintain the 150 feet when approaching public docks but also to be able to accurately judge the distance for themselves all around the lake.

Currently the new buoys are in place at the town docks in Wolfeboro, Alton, and Center Harbor. Barrett said he also will be looking at a dock sign program to coincide with the new buoys, explaining what they and other buoys found around the lake look like and what they mean to boaters.

"We're going to try this and see if we can get anything out of this, with regards to boater education," said Barrett.

He added that boaters will start seeing the white, horizontally striped buoys as early as next year on lakes and other waterways that have public docks.


c. 2006 George J. Foster Co.

How about some other locations?
 

It would be nice to see these bouys where they are needed most.Like where most of the traffic and Capt boneheads are.The Weirs to Merideth and Glendale area has by far the majority of boaters,especially rentals.I do think this is a great idea though.

Agree with Gatto Nero
 

My impression was that the marker is not 150 from the dock. Perhaps my perception is also off, but it did seem awfully close. Should it not have been 150 from the dock in this area?

My understanding from watching the WMUR news item was that they were going to start with all the public docks then possibly expand from there next year. It sounded like Barrett (in interview) said Weirs already has them or will be getting them this week.

New Buoys
 

ticket
 

Two weeks ago, after 48 years of boating on Lake Winn. I got a ticket for failing to keep 150' from shore or floating objects. In my opinion, I was 150' from all objects until the Marine Patrol backed out of a dock, and perhaps at that time I was within 150' of his boat. But again in my defense it was that black rubber type boat with two big motors on it, and it was coming from shore at just before sunset.

This is a problem as if I were to go to court to fight this, how could I prove that I was 150' from anything? I know I was close to the 150' rule and I was near the cascade residence in Alton.

Oh well, it will be cheaper to pay the 57.00 ticket then to try and fight it.:eek:

Refresh my memory, being from FL we had different rules. Is the 150' rule for headway speed only? (probably a stupid question, but lets ask it anyways). I would figure thats what it would be or fishing wouldnt be allowed on the lake:laugh:

thanks for taking the stupid question:D :D :laugh: :laugh: :rolleye1:

JAB, not the stir the pot, and I'm sure you do have better things to do with your time than to go to traffic court, or whatever court the Marine Patrol uses, but do YOU have to prove you were did NOT violate the 150' rule, or does the Marine Patrol have to prove you DID?

Either way it's a judgement call and if you really believe you were unjustly fined then I'd consider a challenge.

Seems to me it goes to the heart of that innocent until proven guilty thing.

What's the other part of the equation, John? There is no wrong in being closer than 150' from a boat or a dock or the shore...............as long as you are going Headway Speed. How fast were you going?

Marker is now off the Alton Docks
 

During the Old Home 5K road race and the antique boat show, the marine patrol work boat came down, with the wind blowing a pretty good gale down the bay kicking up 2-3 foot swells, and dropped the new marker. It took a fair amount of manuevering in the wind and the chop, with one of the MP'ers using a laser unit like I do on the golf course to set the distance. Personally, I think it's a good idea, and hopefully some folks will have a better idea of the distance. Unfortunately, there will still be those out there who won't know or will not care to abide. Ah, the joys of boating!!!!:rolleye2:

PS John...maybe the problem is that a CT yard is like a NY minute!!!!:laugh:

Anyone have a pic of this new bouy they can throw up on the forum so we'll know what it looks like when we happen upon one?

speed
 

CT Yard---NY minute right, I was doing 15 MPH at most, and it has since dawned on me that the MP officer stated that 150 ft is the same distance as two football fields. ah any football fans out their know how long a football field is? For some reason or other I think I recall it being much longer than 75 feet.

150 feet
 

A football field is 100 yards long betrween the goal lines. 100 yards equals 300 feet. So 150 feet is equal to one-half of a football field. Keep this in mind when trying to honor the 150' rule.

Or when explaining the math to the Marine Patrol Officer who stopped John:eek:

One solution
 

John....if you go to court, when it is your turn to cross examine the officer, take out your trusty 100' tape measure and hand the end to him. Walk to the far end of the courtroom and ask him how far away you are. If you are 50' and he says 60', he is 10' off in 50' which equates to 30' off in 150'. Hold the tape where you stopped and show it to the judge and the officer and request the charge be dropped. Odds are in your favor he will not get the exact distance and whatever he does guess need only be extrapolated to 150'. Even 10' in 150' would seem enough error to warrant a dismissal.

150 foot distance
 

I find it easier to think in terms of boat lengths. My runabout is 20 feet long, therefore I need to be at least seven and a half boat lengths out to be 150 feet from shore/object/boat. I've also found that I'm pretty good at judging distamce that way: I borrowed a co-worker's rangefinder, used the 'boat length' method, and found I was usually within 10 feet of the actual distance when the distances were between 150 and 300 feet. Beyond that my estimates were usually within 25 to 75 feet out to a distance of almost 1000 feet.

I always use the "Ski - Line" method of estimating !!

Typical Ski line is about (give or take the number of times it's been around your prop) 75' -- Two ski lines and room for "fudge" your there !!

p.s. -- good luck challenging the Marine Patrol in any court over that one ....... seems like a collosal waste of your time (right or not)

Same type of buoy as a "no wake", "swimming area" or flashing light type buoy...white cylinder with horizontal stripes.

So, are they 150' from the docks or the shore? I would guess 150 feet from the docks after seeing them but I'd really like to know.

Ticket
 

More than likely my court date would be in the middle of the week. My cost of getting their would be $60.00 in gas, one way, $60.00 home. 120.00 for a 57.oo ticket. And my bet would be that I could not get to the court by boat anyway. Which if so, would cost more in boat gas. Tomorrow morning if I can find the damm ticket I will pay it.

I think also that since the Marine Patrol Officer is a collledge student, he could not make the court date either. But I am not gonna waste extra money just to contest it. I think that is what New Hampshire courts are counting on.

In Ct. I have gotten tickets for failure to have flares on my boat. But at the time the law said 2 miles from shore, and Norwich finest had no juristiciton 2 miles from shore, and I would not take my 16 1/2 ft boat 2 miles from shore. So I beat that charge five times in court, and then I scraped the CT registration from my boat.:laugh:

I also found out the hard way that if you Pay by waiver, you are in essence saying youre guilty and it shows up on your Motor Vehicle record as a court conviction. It happened to me twice before I realized the ramafications. Then when I applied for a job requiring a certified copy of my driving record it was right there. It would ultimately affect insurance if I did it enough times. But then again, I have always been a scrapper anyways. Just my $.02

Be careful what you wish for...
 

...because it may just come true.

Almost a year ago (August 6, 2005 to be exact) a very wise man had this great advice to pass in a Boater Education thread:

Thanks John, for being honest in what happened to you on the Lake and sharing the story with all of us. It clearly shows that anyone of us are capable of making a mistake (in the Marine Patrol's eyes, that is ;) .

I know the story you related made me sit up & take notice, and I will follow your advice from a year ago in reminding myself and others that the 150 foot rule is not one to be trifled with!

Skip

Aquadeziac wrote:
A very good point! It had not occurred to me that something like this would end up on your driving record but you're right. I don't know how auto ins is in CT, but in Mass if you get one of these little "gifts" you also get an insurance surcharge for several years! So, just based on what I pay for auto insurance, it would be cost effective to take the ride to NH to fight the ticket!

Skip wrote:
August 6, 2006 was 10 days ago :eek: I'm guessing you meant August 6, 2005 :D

Oops!
 

Yep, my boo-boo, all fixed! :)

entrapment?
 

John A. B.,
Maybe they've been gunning for you since you made that post a year ago!:eek:

ticket
 

Gee, I actually said that, and I meant it then and now. Am I guilty of the 150' rule? don't think so, but I was close enough to call it. And I sent the money to the state. I hope that they use it well. Now I am thinking 200 ft will keep me out of financial woos. Safe boating to one and all.

When you send the money to the court, you automatically plead GUILTY to all charges! PERIOD!

You don't think you're guilty? Don't send the money and fight. Send the money that means that you did the deed and it will show up on your insurance and driving record.

So, if you agree that 150' is twice the length of a football field, then I want to contact you re: football betting!!!

150 ft. bouy`s
 

:eek: well tues. upon arriving at the west Alton sandbar I found that the M.Ps had placed the bouy`s around the beach property. and 4- boaters Ignored Them. at 3.30 p.m. a M.P. boat came right In looked at them and left the area without saying anything to anyone.

On wednsday, NO boaters anchored In near the beach. Quite a difference. :confused:

150 foot marker
 

Sure thing.

Here's a shot of the marker in Center Harbor to show us what 150' looks like. It is measured from the marker to the end of the dock. The distance can look short depending on your viewing angle.

Then there is the 150' marker off of the end of the Marine Patrol dock in Glendale. Past seasons I thought 150' reference marker by MP was of the PVC spar type colored gray with a black(?) top.

Anyway, here are recent pictures of the 150' reference markers in Center Harbor and Glendale.

You're right, it does look short. I've been allowing much more distance, and I think that I'll continue to do so!

Silver Duck

150 Markers
 

No photograph or video can give the true perspective on distances like this. It absolutely has to be appreciated by the naked eye.

It is really best to investigate these new placements and see for yourself what it looks like over a span of water relative to whatever they are marking. When in doubt, slowing down to headway speed is always a safe option.

I'm glad to see these new buoys. Every time I'm on any big lake, I always see the 150' rule being broken. Either people don't understand this law, or they have no idea what 150 feet is. Perhaps these buoys will help.

I haven't seen one in person yet, but I plan to be out on the water Thursday evening and I'll take a look.

I like the attempt by Marine Patrol officials to show boaters what 150' looks like and I think it will be helpful.

The only concern that I would raise (you didn't think I wouldn't have one did you :eek: ) Is that it's another marker on the water that is unique to NH and to the best of my knowledge they don't appear on any charts yet. That may cause confusion to visitors to our lake who are used to the AToN system in the rest of the country.

By and large I think it's a good attempt! Nice to see you posting again Evenstar!

Center Harbor
 

I'm pretty sure that I saw one of the new buoys when I was paddling through Center Harbor last Thursday. I wasn't close enough to read it, but it looked like the green one in the photo. At the time I didn't realize the reason for the buoy, and neither did the large power boat that was entering the harbor as I was leaving, which sped by me at about half the 150 foot distance.

IT's been my experience that most people are really good at obeying the 150' rule, but it still amazes me how many don't seem to have a clue - as they blast by me, at much closer than they should be, smiling and waving.

Thanks! It's been a busy summer, and this is the first thread in the boating forum in a while that I can actually relate to.

I think the new markers are a good effort. Most people act like No-Wake rules only apply where there's a marker of some type anyway so putting these in critical areas will help in those locales.

150 inch rule you mean?????
 

True story....

...back side of Gov. isl. 2 weeks ago, while heading south at headway speed, a number of boats approaching Eagle isl markers were flat out full bore no more than 50' from me. I waved to them to slow down and they had the nerve to wave at me to move closer to shore. I was 150' from shore going headway spead as we like to view the homes there when we have company. It makes you wonder if people really passed the safety course. During my course (class of Feb 02) we were asked to step outside and pace out what we thought was 150'. Fortunately for me I came the closest by 3 feet. It was amasing how far off most of the class was. It's much harder to judge distance on the water than the land, so go figure...

The markers are a wonderful idea...

Not knowing what the markers were, when I first spotted them, I was pleased to discover that I had slowed to headway speed long before getting to them. I was way over estimating 150 feet. I still slow long before the 150 foot mark at public docks just to keep the boats from getting bashed up.

I have to say, as long as no one endangers me or swamps me, I could not care one iota if they want to go above headway speed less than 150 feet from my boat, if my boat is NOT tied to a dock or another boat. I deal with closing speeds of well over 100 MPH, at well under 10 feet of spacing, hundreds of times per day, on my morning and afternoon commutes. No big deal.

Brakes?
 

Ya, but Dave, those vehicles you encounter in your commute...have brakes!! :)

chipj29 wrote:
Brakes? You obviously don't drive into Boston do you Chip? :laugh:

bouys
 

I do not understand it. I think the one in Alton Bay is wrong, or the cop that gave me the ticket is wrong. I was at least twice as far from that bouy when I got nailed. I think they need to be measured, cause I do not think they are even 75' from the peirs in Alton Bay.:eek:

I said that they HAVE brakes, not that they USE them. ;)

I drive 93 every morning, but my commute ends in Andover, MA. That is far enough thanks! 93 can be quite a challenge some days!

Doesn't the NWZ in Alton Bay begin at the Bandstand? It must be much further than 150' from there to the docks. :look:

N W Z
 

The NWZ in Alton Bay does start at the Bandstand. I think J.A.B.'s point is that in looking at the new buoy off the Alton docks, he thinks that he was more than that distance from the MP's boat when he was cited (see story above). The problem is that with these citations it's not measured via any equipment, it's just the officer's best judgement. Usually I don't think they'll stop you for being 145' instead of 150', under 75' (if they notice it) probably will get you cited. The flip side is that your in the same "boat" as the MP as you have only your best judgement as to whether you're more than 150' from anything. Hmmm, perhaps there's a business opportunity here, creating a low powered, single antenna, radar system that measure from, say 50' - 500', so people can know how far away they really are. If it sold for, I dunno, under $100, there might be a (small) market. Then perhaps a handheld version with a directional antenna and compass, so the MP could measure distance and bearing from himself to any 2 objects and compute the differential btw them. That one would have to stand up in court, betcha I could charge a lot more for this baby. Hmmm ... ;)

First you build the handheld...then you build and market the consumer's radar detector:eek: :D :cool: . Hmmmmmmmmm!

Then sell your services as an expert witness!

You mean I should testi-lie ?
 

To both sides ! (though perhaps not in the same case) Woo hoo, McMansion here I come ! ;) :D