Boats At Night Without Lights
 

I can't think of anything more to say

in the DARK Boats
 

Last season I was looking for a marker with my Q Beam spot light and noticed a blurr in the distance. I pointed the spot light in that direction and it was a speedboat moving at a good clip without running lights. They seemed pissed I put the spot light on them because they buzzed me. The only thing I could think of was that the driver was using night vision. It was one of those dark gloomy nights.

While I was at the boat show I noticed a lot of new night vision aides. I wondering if anyone has tried them?

Night Vision
 

That's great but their lights are there so I can navigate around and see them!

Even with lights
 

Even with lights on you need to be extra cautious. I was heading south in paugas toward burger king when a boat past me no more then 5 feet away going in the opposite direction. The lights on shore made it so I did not see him and he didn't see me. I now pay very close attention in areas where there are alot of lights.

Given the danger involved, you'd think marine patrol would do something about it. Oh wait - they do it when they're out there looking for people to stop. I've witnessed it first hand and heard from two other people about it happening to them.

Just a bit of a double standard isn't it?

Confused by your post. (sorry)

Do something about what? (No lights?)

What do they do about it? (Run with no lights to trap people?)

Thanks for any clarification you can offer.

It took me a bit as well but I think ND is saying that the MP float out there with no lights (like the troopers sit in the 93 maintenance cut-overs). They likely do but are likely floating with no engine running, kids squawking or radios blaring and total situational awareness. Like it or not, LE officers often have to break the law to do their jobs.

I think that running without lights at night will attract far more MP scrutiny than running with lights.

It has been said before but is worth saying again. If you are going to hang out at night with the lights off, position yourself so that others have to hit rocks before you. It is against the rules, but there is a beauty in watching the stars from an unlit boat. If you are out in the open and see or hear someone coming, flip the lights on in plenty of time and hope it isn't a MP. :eek:

Why not just spend a few dollars and get a good anchor light? A good light should send all the light to the sides and none down on the boat and passengers.

If you must by out at night with no lights, follow Lakegeezer's advice, anchor in the Witches.:eek:

Seriously, it's pretty dangerous, this wan't that long ago and it could have been much worse for all involved:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4936

Vtsteve it’s probably not drunks hanging out in the middle of the lake with no lights on. More than likely its two consenting adults.

For a few bucks more, you can get an all around light that does not shine "down." For extra clearance over my Bimini I spliced it into a section from another all around light. Unless I look at it, I can see the sky quite clearly.

It is easily possible to be legal and safe while enjoying your boat.

Good luck!

We saw a boat go by our place Saturday evening with no lights. I saw them shining a spot as they came by the marker near Mink but noticed no bow lights approaching. A minute later it came clipping by, dash lights were on but NO navigational lights. As fast as people cut the corner by FL29 that could have been scary.

It was a bit of a sarcastic (and obviously confusing) post. VitaBene got the basics right though - MP has been known to be lights out on the lake while they are looking for nighttime violations. Situational awareness or not, it's a pretty dangerous habit. VitaBene's comparison is a trooper in the 93 cutover lanes but that's not a great analogy because the traffic on 93 isn't going to be turning there.

Ummm....wife and I were guilty of that in our younger, dating days....:)

Terminology.
 

Where do you think the term 'Stabbin' cabin' came from? :eek:

Back in the late 60's, early 70's, I use to watch couples drifting out on the Broads with my binoculars. Guess I didn't learn sex education in high school. :emb:

Not an actual accident but....
 

This could've been serious! :eek: (I didn't know where else to put this so here goes!)

My wife and I were in Wolfeboro the last week of July on vacation. Monday evening, July 26 we went to Meredith for dinner. We're on our way back to Wolfeboro travelling through The Broads about 1/4 mile from Diamond Island at 9:25pm. The moonlight is shining brightly on the water about 15-20 degrees to the right of my actual heading. My wife and I are scanning ahead when a shadow crosses left to right about 300-400 ft ahead through the moonlight on the water. We both asked the other if they saw the shadow and we both realized at the same time what it was. It was a sailboat, under sail with ABSOLUTELY NO NAVIGATION LIGHTS displayed, I presume heading back to the mainland!! There were no nav lights visible on the starboard side that we could see and nothing on the mast!! The ONLY reason we caught a glimpse of it was the fact it passed through the moonlight shining on the water!! :mad: :fire:

This wasn't an accident this time but it's an accident waiting to happen!! It's one thing if you do something stupid and it only affects yourself but when it has the potential to affect others (ME in this case!), it REALLY ticks me off!! I would've been horrified if I had struck that boat and injured or killed someone but at the same time I also would have been enraged by their carelessness and stupidity that could have caused the collision in the first place!! Then there's the headaches of investigation, possible charges, potential litigation and insurance claims to deal with!! :fire: :fire:

What kind of IDIOT goes out, AT NIGHT, without navigation lights when navigation lights are the ONLY way to locate/identify them???? To hell with the speed limit, get these IDIOTS off the water!! So much for tranquility returning to the lake! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rant over......

Read this thread.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4936

And you'll no doubt be confused as to what construes what an Idiot is on the lake. As long as you don't have a motor, you're not at fault, some people think.

Fortunately I have not encountered any unlit vessels (and if I have, I didn't see them :rolleye2: ) on Winnipesaukee. I have, however, a couple times out on the ocean and on smaller lakes. It's really unnerving.

"A Proper Watch"—Especially for Latka!
 

We have plenty of IDIOTS out on the lake: there are kid-idiots, foreigner-idiots, and the home-grown idiots.

1) For no reason, I awoke a few nights ago, and then a neighbor's golden-retriever barked (just once). I stepped out, saw nothing, but heard voices "out there". This was the night best-suited for viewing the Aurora Borealis. :eek:

2) I also reported here of foreigner-kayakers out at 9-PM. :(

3) Johnson's Cove hosted foreigner-idiots last Sunday: They stood out for the absence of any boating prowess—plus the skimpy bathing suits on the men! :eek:

I thought I'd heard German, and got a little closer. Their language, I'd have to say, was identical to that "made-up-language" spoken by the character Latka Gravas (~Andy Kaufman), on the hit TV show, “Taxi”. :laugh:

4) At the same time, I watched home-grown idiots towing a tube inside Johnson's Cove, among a dozen boats anchored there! :eek2:

Still more kid-idiots, that I reported here in 2003:

If you're on the lake, you can't depend on the moon (or common sense among other boaters), but you are required to "maintain a proper watch" at all times. :cool:

No Navigation Lights
 

Everyone should have NH Marine Patrol's telephone number in their cell phones for situations like this. You could save a life by calling!

In an emergency situation, please call 603-293-2037 or 877-642-9700

Is there a possibility that maybe he lost power for whatever reason on his boat and was simply trying to get home safely. I can't imagine anyone would purposely navigate with no lights.

Dan

I did read it last month after JRC posted the link earlier in this thread. Suffice to say I was AMAZED at some of the comments!! :eek:

I have the MP number in my cell phone but I was so angry, it never occurred to me to call!! And to be perfectly honest, if they're going to be that stupid, I'm not interested in saving their life!! Sounds like a Darwin Award nominee to me; let's clean up the gene pool!!! :laugh:

Hopefully, if I'm ever in this situation again, I'll remember to call MP and perhaps save an innocent boater from ruining their life because they hit an IDIOT!! :mad:

I came upon 2 situations that I offer to reflect upon.

1) I was returning to our slip at night in Paugus Bay. As I neared the end of the bay there was a "dark" boat just floating without lights. I was really mad that someone would place us at risk and navigated around the vessel. I got into the slip and then felt guilty since it may have been someone in trouble and I did not check. The guilt got the better of me so I went to make sure everything was ok. What I found was someone cut the lines and sent the vessel adrift. The police were notified and the authorities took it from there. I was disapointed in myself for letting anger cloud my thinking.

2) Once again going down Paugus bay at night I saw what I thought was a good size log with a branch on one end. I went around it and then saw 2 more logs. These were not logs at all. They were 3 deer out for a midnight swim. I am not sure what the proper lighting for hoofed animals would be but these 3 were definitely breaking night navigation rules.

It is interesting that when I write about these situations it becomes apparent that if you focus on the man made laws and suspect that someone is breaking the rules, anger easily takes over clouding reaction. If you can keep your thinking open to observation and react to the situation you can assist constructively. The deer did nothing wrong but could have caused a collision the same as the sailboat or the boat set adrift.

Winnipesaukee Darwin Award
 

I'm a firm believer in Darwinism. :laugh: I was worried about the poor boaters that might run into them! :eek2: Glad the sailboat made it back to port safely.

I'd have issued a safety broadcast on the VHF.

'All vessels in the vicinity of X, be advised there is a sailboat underway and showing no lights. Heading towards Y. Caution is recommended.'

Sailboats
 

Living on the Broads, I have seen a number of times when sailboats venture out in the evening and get caught with no wind. Then end up paddling home with no lights or motor. You would think that there is a law requiring sailboats to install nav lights. One 360 degree flashlight should be sufficient. I have yet to see one use. West Marine carries them.

Great post, we all know the rules and try to throw people under the bus as soon as we see a law being broken. Obviously the captain is responsible for operating within spec, but that doesn't mean we cannot help them do that.

So a boat has no nav lights on, why? They forgot? Someone hit the switch and turned them off by accident? Wiring short?

Yes there could be someone who chooses to not turn them on because they prefer not to, by all means pick on that person as much as you like! I suspect some people shut them off once they hit the middle of the broads or wherever as to not attract bugs or some silly reason. They assume they aren't really in danger.

So how do you "help" someone that has operated with no nav lights? for whatever reason. My normal reaction would be to shine my million candlepower spotlight on them for as long as possible. Most people would wonder why they are being singled out, which causes a person with even a shred of common sense to run through a checklist of what they could have done or not done. If they still persist to operate without lights, then call the MP ASAP. If you don't call, how will you feel when you read about or even hear the accident a little while later when they finally collide with someone.

If anyone on this forum does operate without lights. You will kill or hurt someone eventually.

Lights on deer required!
 

NoRegrets,

I believe there is a requirement for hooved animals to display one red light, visible for 5 miles, on foggy nights only...and only if it is Christmas Eve!

VHF Radio
 

Sounds like a pretty good plan, but what about those of us who do not have a VHF radio to hear it? :)

No excuse
 

That could have been the case but then there's still no excuse for being out at night w/o a flashlight. He could either illuminated his sail or flashed oncoming boats to make them aware of his presence. Maybe the req'd equipment list needs to be revised ?

As for being "on purpose" ... how about due to stupidity ? How many times have "we" seen boats with just the all around or with just the R/G sidelights on after dark ? Just last week after dusk (not that dark) I saw a guy towing a novice skier (he kept falling) with his all around on but having neglected to turn on his sidelights.

Though it does not constitute a legal runing light, in an emergency situation like getting becalmed at twilight, a common flashlight shone on the boat's big, white mainsail can be seen a long way (a tip from my mis-spent youth!) :D

Silver Duck

What Passengers...?
 

Exactly.

Among other hazards, Rule-5 was established to address "vessels cast adrift", deer swimming after dark, plus other unlighted obstructions and hazards.

The below quote includes passengers in the keeping of a proper look-out. The author omits a mention of a lanyard as a safety item; however, I agree with the following excerpt—all the emphases are mine:

Maritime Rules.
 

I strongly suggest that the State of NH adopt these rules. They were years in the making and make good sense. Enforced the ones we already have. :)

Inland Navigation Rules
 

While Mr. Morris's opinion is interesting and contains some good general advice, it is far from law or common practice to have dedicated look-out with no other duties on private recreational vessels. Anybody who sails alone violates the letter and spirit of this excerpt, as no sailing boat has an all around view from the steering position.

Is it your opinion that sailing alone is always a violation of Rule 5?

Back on topic:

If you get stuck out at night without proper lighting, due to equipment failure, loss of wind, whatever, with or without stupidity involved. You are now a danger to yourself and others, find away to be seen and get to the nearest shore.

Yes, it probably is a rule violation. If the sailboat cannot keep a proper lookout due to the proximity of the sail and the skipper, and he hits a stationary object, yes, it is a violation. What else would you call it?

Mr. Morris's opinion is based on pure common sense, but seems geared more towards larger vessels where the skipper cannot reasonably be relied on for a lookout. Either way, his logic makes sense if taken in context.

Hitting something because you didn't see it, is always a rule 5 violation.

But having one person be the helmsman and look-out is not always a rule 5 violation. Even on a sailboat, where part of the view is always blocked. A proper look-out must be responsible to look in every direction. A proper lookout does not require constant 360 degree sight lines. A proper lookout is a lookout that stops you from hitting anyone.

Do you really think that every single handed sailor is violating USCG rules, everytime he raises a sail?

Edit:...actually rereading your response, we are really saying the say thing no sense in running circles

lights
 

While traveling North by Sandy Point (Alton Bay) we saw what we thought might be one of them cars you can drive in the water. this was just as all lights should be on in the boats. This vessel had lights on like a car, perhaps they were docking lights but they were about a mile away. It sure looked funny. But alas it was a party boat and it blocked out their navigation lights.

Just another isolated incident...
 

Is anybody listening out there? :confused: I unplugged my porch's VHF, as I heard nothing on it for weeks. (Except for NOAA weather, which includes a "gal's voice" who says clou-w-w-w-dy in a very annoying manner :laugh:)

But here's why I would have first advised the NHMP:

1) The boat could have come adrift from dockage or mooring with the sails up—without the owner's knowledge. (Look around your location at dawn, to see just how common a practice this is).

2) The boat could have a skipper who'd fallen with a disabling condition—and needing help.

3) The helmsman may have a reason to go unobserved at night, which could involve a criminal matter :eek2: best handled by the NHMP!

A big mistake, but I sailed over to Diamond Island (and Samoset) Saturday. The wind died as soon as I got there :rolleye2: but I still enjoyed four hours floating around :look: with only two of "the usual suspects" seen between 9-AM and about 1-PM.

There are at least two sailboats at those locations which could have just left their dock (or mooring—in the case of Samoset). :confused: Maybe discuss with those owners regarding this "incident"? :look:

Not every possible solution will help every potential victim. In the end, every one has the primary responsibilty for their own safety. Each owner/operator will have to determine what gear best suits their needs. That can be radar, VHF or something to clean their eye glasses.

Good luck!

Fantastic representation of how that word is presented. Almost fell out of my chair laughing as I have the exact same feeling when using my GPS to scan the weather while out in the field.:laugh:

Stabbin Cabin?
 

I thought it was Capt. Stabbin! Or I guess that was the guy in the cabin. By the way, we all knew you were watching. Didn't you see me waving?

Dedicated-Nightwatcher...
 

IMHO, a dedicated look-out should become a common practice—particularly at night. A passenger can be scouting ahead without interference from instrument lighting—which ruins night-vision in very short order. :(

Thanks (in part) to a clear vinyl "sail window", my present sailboat gives me a 360° view, as did each of my four catamarans. (Five, if including a rental catamaran on Lake Winnipesaukee). The problem is, I don't have a 360° neck! :laugh:

Sailboats, with headway-speed being their normal operation, are always a hazard as the strikee, rather than being the striker. Depending on circumstances, I can see an "ejected-boater" being a natural outcome of a collision with a sailboat—especially at night.

If you read Rule 5 again, it's the skipper who is generally responsible for "all available means":

One prevailing condition is darkness, so one needs to use depth-alarms and radar, if equipped with any of those aids.

(Ears, too, as the sailboat could have been issuing a warning signal :eek2:).

A passenger could be "deputized" as a crew member to assist in navigating through night traffic: given the above apparent hazard, I don't think they'd mind too much. :look:

This thread has developed in amazing fashion. Fact is, Every boat on the lake at night is required to have whatever form of navigation lights required. Obviously, mishaps involving broken moorings and unmanned, drifting boats pose a hazard as well.

Many tragic accidents have happened to people adrift at night star gazing, groping, or just out partying. It's just flat out dangerous, regardless of how much anyone thinks they should be seen by a shimmering moon. This goes for powerboaters, sailboats and paddle boats. The Primary responsibility is to be seen. Every boater has a duty to keep a lookout for all potential obstacles. Nobody should ever put themselves, or their vessel, in the position of being that obstacle.