Trespassers on Bear today
 

We had 3 very rude, arrogant and entitled trespassers show up via kayak at our place on East Bear today. Unfortunately we didn’t see the footage from multiple cameras until after they were gone. They spent 10+ minutes at the house, checked everything out, a man and a woman both took a leak in our yard (literally have this idiot facing the camera with his pants down) and even making cracks about the cameras and stating “what are they going to do, call the cops?”. These weren’t kids, they were probably all in their sixties.

Can anyone identify these clowns? We have plenty of audio and video footage and will be pursuing this. They have one opportunity to come forward and speak with me before this escalates. One of them boasted that they were on a local board, and were discussing Gunstock. They are locals.

Multiple pics and their epic video footage posted on Facebook for all to see and enjoy.

I hope you follow up with your threats


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I'm not very clever about some of this so I couldn't make the links work. Where on FB? Why would they paddle all the way around the island to get to your place specifically?

They didn’t come to my place specifically (as an intended destination), but mine was their pit stop of choice today. They paddled in, took a walk around, pissed in front of my camera, lounged out on my deck, and boasted about how they wouldn’t get caught.

They were spotted by others by Dolly Island and heading north past Nokomis as well.

The links may not work, it was video. These will show up on a few of the larger Winniprsaukee FB groups once approved.

Wow, I just don't understand this. I won't even step on somebody else's property if they aren't there, let alone laugh and wander around. It is just amazing. :mad:

Well, as long as all they did was pee on the grass, it's not all that big of a deal? It's not like they damaged or stole anything?

Kayakers, like everyone else, have the need to relieve themselves and that can be problematic when kayaking this time of year. In the summer with the water temp at 70+ they wear swim suits and can pee in the lake, out of sight, in the water. Now, with the water temp at 58, it presents a new challenge plus its good to stretch your legs and walk around some after sitting within a kayak for 60-minutes.

So, all things considered, where is a good place for kayakers to pee while paddling around Lake Winnipesaukee?

Maybe your house for starters…

That needs to be addressed with the various towns... same for powerboaters.

Isn't the redesign and reconstruction upgrades at the Town of Meredith's Love Joy Sands public parking lot, also known as Shep Brown's located close to Bear Island getting a public toilet building to be constructed next year, starting in the spring of 2023. In addition to new docks, new trees, new parking lot, new lighting, it will get a public toilet with separate gentlemen and ladies rooms.

Will probably include electric outlets for recharging your smart phone/camera plus a vending machine with Coca-Cola, Mountain Dew and Dr Pepper's ....... all the good stuff happens in Meredith! ...... :D

So's, that would be a totally excellent pit stop for kayakers to take a break from paddling without bothering anyone, plus it can be used to park your car and unload a kayak.

New Hampshire is a "Free-Range" State...
 

No real damage.

No evidence of "damage".

Do you have a case in New Hampshire if the property isn't posted every 100-feet?

We had a neighbor on whose property a deer was "field-dressed". :eek:

Boorish behavior, but…..
 

Having read the posts on this, as infuriating as it is to have someone trespass and disrespect what is yours, not theirs, I would probably let this whole episode go. People who know no boundaries and behave as they did might decide to get even with you for pursuing this with the authorities. Some people can do really terrible things when confronted. Just my thoughts……

I get the need to relieve yourself. The fact that they noticed the camera and didn't walk up to the tree line to seek some privacy and thought they were being funny is disappointing. It is the comments that are most offensive.

Well let's see...Pilots have to plan for their "bathroom" requirements while airborne. Other than making a pit stop at an appropriate facility, there are many options. Some of these include the most basic of using a bottle, to more advanced methods of using special bags that have a substance in them that turns to gel once exposed to #1. https://www.reliefontheline.com/

Or perhaps if a pilot was an inconsiderate loser like these moron kayakers, he'd just "hang it out" over your house. Hopefully he doesn't have to go #2. No, that's not a rainstorm, FLL :rolleye1:

Perhaps a $1.7 million dollar public toilet for boaters? Kinda like the one-holer porcelain bowl proposed two blocks from me out here on the left coast? Maybe a nice location like on Becky's Island.

If you really want to wig him out, tell him about relief tubes.

People walk though all the time, we don’t care about that. These people came directly in by kayak, decided to hang out and sun themselves on my deck, check everything out and make ridiculous comments while knowing they were on camera the whole time. It was certainly more bold than a passerby.

If it were those of a younger generation I could understand (although not approve of) their actions but these people were older, local and should have known better.

It would probably be several.
A lot of different towns, with a lot of frontage, surround the lake.

Opechee we had to walk to the Point, now the bathhouses at the Cove cover the swim, track, and skateboard park needs... along with helping support the crowds in the fields and special events.

These people are losers, and you are right to be angry. I don't blame you. Hopefully they are not neighbors rather just blow ins who will blow out quickly.

I would change my hot tub water too, I don't believe him that he went next to the hot tub, unless you got it on video.

Nope! Not several. $1.7 million for one toilet.


https://fortune.com/2022/10/22/san-f...sness-housing/

Trespassers
 

Up the game:

- Report it to the police and let them run with it but don't stop there; in a perfect world they should all get arrested;

- If you have the entire clip(s) and screen shots send it to the Police too;

- Get screens shots and send them to the LaDaSun with the backstory then...

Sit back and see how much mouth they have when they see they are on the front page of the Sun.

The best way to find them is publicity. Someone will know who they are.

As I expected the power of social media prevailed. I have a tip that one is on the board and/or works at Gunstock, and another one of them reached out directly to admit and apologize.

Haven’t determined how I will handle this, as one at least reached out as I requested. I am certainly upgrading the camera system though.

The only reason you got an apology is because they were caught red handed on your camera. Don’t think for a minute they would of had the decency to come apologize on their own…

I would at least report it to the police and see if they can give them some kind of warning.

Dan

I meant that the Lake would need several different public toilet facilities.

Opechee is much smaller and has three that I know of.

Each of those today would cost nearly that much...
The city sewer line is closest to the Point, and that facility was not cheap decades ago when built.

It could be a violation... but very hard to prosecute in the sense that the property was not secured or posted.

Wow, nice detective work. For me as long as nothing was damaged I'd probably let it go with the apologies. But they did cause you grief...

People need to understand that the chances of getting caught are much higher now with these inexpensive cameras.

..... too much technology!
 

With all these home cameras all over the place, now-a-days, a group of three paddle kayakers stopping to pee on someone's island home has become like the crime of the century or something.

Hey ...... when you gotta go ...... you gotta go ...... and the water is now too cold at 57-degrees to get in the water to pee in the lake. Fishermen will stand up and pee over the side on their fishing boat but one cannot do that on most kayaks.

You should be honored that they chose your house as a desirable place to stop and pee. Some intangible positive quality must have determined they paddle onto your sandy waterfront for a pit stop. ...... ???

Yes, I feel truly honored….:rolleye2:

Next time I hope it’s your house.

Poor attempt at humor….

Words to live by....PB4UGO !!!

That’s his usual MO….

You're right.
 

At your home!

I laugh every time I read this. Good response!!!

The woke entitled showing true colors again. I do not even know how this crosses one's mind to do this, i have a friend with a place further up the state and people all the time walk from the street right up his driveway and look in his windows and stay on the property to observe the lake he is on, with signs that he now has to put on his property. started filming, has the signs, started sending to police, still hasnt stopped.

I have it happen a few times a summer as well (which has upticked in the past few years), people who rent across the street from our property walk over with chairs and fishing poles and sit on our beach/dock to enjoy the lake that they do not have access to from where they rent, their answer, oh we are across the street? does that give you the right to walk passed private property signs and use the land, no it does not, but hey no one cares until that same person hurts themselves for stupid reasons on your property and your and your insurance company gets to flip the bill for it. We have actually had to call the police and waste thier time because the people sometimes refuse to leave

The issue isn't having to relieve oneself. We have all been there. This issue is treating someone else's property as your own. Societal norms are going by the wayside. I can't remember the last time a youngster when introduced to me or my wife called me Mr. and Mrs. So and So. Another example, went to a funeral recently, maybe 20 percent of the attendees were wearing suits or appropriate dresses. It's the little things that go away and then the bigger things erode, like feeling it's okay to treat someone else's property as your own.

It's always bad to generalize, but I blame the late baby boomers for this. This couple appears to be solidly in the demographic. They have systematically destroyed family values, removed societal norms and encouraged bad behavior, e.g., drag shows for children. We see it all around us now and are so desensitized that no one cares.

Regardless of whether they were caught, it is nice to know that at least one of them apologized. Hopefully they learned a lesson.

Common law in New Hampshire extends the privilege of public access to private lands that are not posted.

That being said, it is not hard to be respectful....

Woodsy

Speaking as a frequent kayaker, this is something I plan for in advance. I've never had to "go" in anyone's yard. There are always other possibilities. There are at least 5 different ways of peeing in or from your kayak, like using a bottle or a sponge. Even women can do this. Also, I never land on private property, at least not within sight of a house. It's outrageous to pull up to someone's dock and treat the property like your personal bathroom or rest area. If you're driving in your vehicle and you have to go to the bathroom, you don't stop in someone's yard. Same with a kayak. The fact that they did no damage is irrelevant. What they did was wrong in so many ways, and they've probably done this many times before. It conveys a sense of entitlement and disrespect for people's property.

The Bear Island Post Office dock is owned by the Town of Meredith so that could be a good spot for a portable rental toilet. Other locations for a portable rental toilet are Cattle Landing parking lot, Love Joy Sands parking lot, Meredith town docks parking lot, and Leavitt Beach, Meredith, parking lot.

That's five different Meredith locations where a rental porta-potty would be usefull. If a porta-potty got placed in these locations, it would probably get used, and probably annoy a number of people at the same time, just for it being there. While there is a need for public toilets, it's like the solution with port-potties is maybe considered to be worse than the problem, so nothing happens.

In the winter, snowmobilers and ice fisherman just use the ice. In the summer, kayakers, boaters, and patrons at The Dive all use the lake. When hikers walking the 2200-mile Appalachian Trail need to go, they use the woods and are supposed to dig a small hole in the ground in the woods. Lake Winnipesaukee presents a difficult situation for locating public toilets and people just pee in the lake when the water is warm enough in the summer, but that becomes a problem when the water temp is too cold, like right now with 57-degree water temp.

It happens all the time.
Because of the open space we used to leave our land open rather than go through the effort to post it.

It went from hunters... that only fire rarely and have a firm bearing on their target... to target shooting recreationalist that would go on line and tell everyone that they could come. Weekends sounding like a firing gallery. So we chose to post and then allow hunting with signed permission for those that we OK.

Same happened with motorized recreation, they just could not understand the limits imposed and would not obey them... so now, we no longer allow for that.

Patrons at the Dive? Really Les? They do have facilities on board...

Again I say, plan ahead. Yes, it's an inconvenience. Too bad. A kayaker's inconvenience doesn't supersede a property owner's expectation of privacy and respect for his land. I was kayaking in Maine yesterday. On long trips I carry a two-part bucket toilet with pine pellets for liquid waste and sawdust for solid (hence my question here some time ago about sources of sawdust in the Lakes Region). It took me a while yesterday to find a secluded wooded area. Inconvenient, yes, but common sense. Like your mama said, go to the bathroom before you hit the road or the water. I'm not claiming I would never land my kayak on private land to pee if I had to. Just that I wouldn't brazenly pull up to someone's dock, pee in front of their house, lounge around, and make rude comments in front of the cameras. I would find a secluded place well away from houses. I think the OP was most bothered by the attitude of the kayakers, not the damage caused by peeing on his land.

All outdoor sports people have to deal with this problem---boaters, hikers, backpackers, campers, canoeists, cyclists, fishermen, etc. Kayakers don't really have more of a challenge than, say, cyclists. All have the same obligation to find a wooded area and be discrete. The water temperature doesn't change that obligation.

The Surveillance Generation...
 

Not really, FLL. You can step out of your kayak, legally stand in ankle-deep water, and pee on the property stakes. :laugh:

You wouldn’t be guilty of trespassing--much less Criminal Trespass. :rolleye1:

We didn't have this "problem" until widespread availability and installations of "surveillance" cameras. :rolleye2:

The people weren't actually guilty of criminal trespass. The property is not posted.

They showed bad judgement.

The August 29, 2022 Laconia Daily Sun has a front page report "Vandals Tip Porta-Potti into Lake Winnisquam" at Ahern State Park with a photo of the porta-potti laying sideways in about one foot of water depth, in front of the beach. .... :cool:

Apparently there was no security camera to witness the vandals in action so they could get displayed on social media? .... :eek2:

So, placing a porta-potti on the Bear Island Post Office dock may not be the best way to go? ...... :eek:

Possibly, Bear Islander could add a new BearCam view directed at a future Bear Island porta-pottie to be located on the Bear Island town dock? ..... ha-ha-ha-ho-ho-ho ..... :laugh:

....

Either way it doesn't encourage a person to work hard if they just have to give it to somebody else who doesn't care to.

John, are you saying we all need to put no trespassing signs on our property if we don't want others using it as they please? Wow!

Fences Make Good Neighbors
 

The law says you're entitled to restrict use of your land to people you want there. :look:

Signs and/or fences indicate such restrictions. Enforcement is a whole different matter. :rolleye2:

It is the way that NH works.
For it to be a violation... simple fine... they must be in a place that they do not know that they can't be. Without the signs, non-motorized users plead ignorance of that fact without postings or fences/gates.

For motorized users, we changed the laws... but even those are openly flouted.

'Good fences make good neighbors.'
 

New Hampshire born poet Robert Frost, 1874-1963 .....
'Mending Wall' ... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...6/mending-wall ... 1914

hmmmmm ...... something to ponder

Common law in New Hampshire extends the privilege of public access to private lands that are not posted. So to answer your question, if you do not want people to trespass on your property, then YES you have to post it as such. There are rules to specifically how it has to be posted.... bright sign every 100 yards, specific lettering height, etc etc etc.

Woodsy

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa.../635/635-4.htm

635:4 Prescribed Manner of Posting. – A person may post his land to prohibit criminal trespass and physical activities by posting signs of durable material with any words describing the physical activity prohibited, such as "No Hunting or Trespassing", printed with block letters no less than 2 inches in height, and with the name and address of the owner or lessee of such land. Such signs shall be posted not more than 100 yards apart on all sides and shall also be posted at gates, bars and commonly used entrances. This section shall not prevent any owner from adding to the language required by this section.
Source. 1977, 284:1, eff. Aug. 21, 1977.

Until someone sees you do it, at which point it can become a much larger problem. Its a quick way to get arrested for indecent exposure or fined for public urination or defecation

I hadn't seen this one before until I looked it up.

645:1-a Public Urination or Defecation. – A person is guilty of a violation if such person urinates or defecates in a public place, other than a public restroom, under circumstances where the person knew or should have known would likely cause affront or alarm to another.

Well wouldn't it look pretty if every piece of property was plastered with No Trespassing signs. No picnics allowed on my front lawn.

Believe me... it is a major problem.
I hate the look of the posted signs... but nothing else seems to work... and those signs are always disappearing or being ignored.

I can see them on large parcels where there is no home. But if you own a house with say, an acre and need to post signs to keep people off, it is ridiculous!! Oh wait, I forgot your land belongs to the government.

I have 11 outdoor cameras but only 4 are public. I have had an isolated camera on the Bear Island Mail Dock for years.

I am confused why people are suggesting a Porta-John for the public docks at Sheps/Goodhue. There has been one there for many many years.

And those public docks and parking area are actually called "Lovejoy Landing".

People forget that this country was founded as much on property rights as it was on freedom. If you own property ITS YOUR PROPERTY! Nobody has the “right” to go onto your property uninvited….that should be common sense. If it’s a large amount of land, you should post it. But for someone to come onto your property with a home on it and walk onto your deck and actually piss on your land is the height of presumptuousness. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong.

Government protection is just not extended.
It use to be that motorized users and stray dogs could also trespass... but they have now limited them... though no one really pays attention.

Actually quite the opposite.
From the time of the Mayflower Compact right-of-passage was imposed.

Ok…I admit, I’m confused…can you elaborate?

Tresspassers
 

cODEMAN, iN MY ESTIMATION YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO FEEL VIOLATED!!
tHESE PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE ABOVE CURRENT SOCIAL MORES AND NEED A WAKEUP CALL.

New England and NH have had the current status of open access across property since the Mayflower Compact.

''Common law in New Hampshire gives the public the right of access to land that's not posted.'' - www.wildlife.state.nh.us/landshare/faqs.html

After having land controlled by the ''Crown'', they chose to have land controlled by the ''Common''. It carried down through the MBC into NH before the division, stayed in NH after the division into a province... and tradition held to Statehood.

Finding them guilty of a violation would get them at maximum a small fine - but it takes up a lot of landowner time to take the day off and appear in court.

Is your property posted?
Are you familiar with Common Law in NH?
Here is some important property owner info;

https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/pub...-explained.pdf

I certainly hope the public embarrassment here on the forum and hopefully on social media caused these people to ponder their choices.

The actual trespass is one thing... the urination and flaunting of it is a completely different dynamic.

Woodsy

Wow…I was woefully uninformed…thanks for the clarification.

They came forward, were extremely embarrassed and apologetic. It went out on the major Winnipesaukee facebook groups and reached tens of thousands of people. Multiple people recognized them from what I am told.

Perfect. Thank you for doing this. Their behavior was terrible, your punishment was appropriate.

What to Do...?...What to Do...?
 

I don't have ANY cameras! :eek:

How would ANYONE know of these offenses without these latest cameras? :confused:

Symptom of Our Society Today
 

Have been following this thread and am really taken back by those that offer the defense that since nothing was damaged " No Harm No Foul"

Being an island owner for over 15 years and on Winni for 69 years I have noticed a dramatic shift in the last couple of decades regarding the lack of respect towards OTHERS...from disrespect towards others personal property to disrespectful behavior shown others.

Those guilty of this only care about their immediate enjoyment at that moment (especially island renters) to the detriment of anyone in their surrounding area.
It is a right they feel justified in pursuing regardless of how it may affect others rights!

I have personally experienced several major incidents in the recent past on the island that are so egregious that I am seriously considering selling this year.

When the conflicts exceed the joy...it just doesn't make sense.

Unfortunately, the authorities that have jurisdiction in these areas are totally ineffective in changing the course of this worsening behavior. Believe me I have tried!

I applaud Codeman 671 in trying to bring some light to this appalling behavior that seems to becoming more and more pervasive in our society today.

Whenever they try they hear chants of ''Live Free or Die''.

It is what we dealt with for the change of motorized use from openly permitted to permitted with permission.

It's tough to get away with anything anymore APS, not good to forget this.

I have cameras on my property, astute people notice them right away. We were robbed about 10 years ago, the crooks maneuvered so as to not be seen. They stole a fairly new, but inexpensive tv, a tv stand, and a 20 year old obsolete dvd player. Together they were worth less than the my insurance deductible. Stupidly I called the cops, who promptly interrogated the trusted people who do things for me around the house.... never again for a small break in. I added a couple more cameras.

"How would anyone know of these offenses with out the latest cameras?"

There was a genius a while back, roaming a neighborhood, dropping a deuce on the sidewalk just about every morning. How do you think people knew about these offenses?? I'll leave that to your imagination and intellect. Finally someone fed up with with the deuce man, set up a camera and caught him on video with dropped trou, dropping one. Turns out it was a school administrator, the sidewalk deuces stopped appearing and he was dealt with.

Things like this are generally not a one off event. I'm willing to bet the people in this post regularly made stops at various properties. While it doesn't appear deuces were dropped here, urine was. Here's the thing, urine, when exposed to air for a while, decomposes and stinks. Especially if it is recurring thing in an area.

If you have an emergency, find somewhere out of the way, away from other people's homes and don't be a jerk about it. Otherwise you might find yourself on social media, acting like a fool on video.

Ok, so I googled "How to pee in a kayak" and came up with a number of videos and helpful articles ...... http://www.ericlillstrom.com/2016/09...in-your-kayak/ and then googled "How to pee on a standup paddleboard" and didn't find anything specific to paddleboards but thought this ..... www.paddleabout.com/how-to-pee-while-kayaking/ ..... was helpful.

Coming from somewhere in Gilford, if they paddled all the way from Gilford to Bear Island in Meredith though the big open Lake Winnipesaukee spaces with cold 57-degree lake water they probably just needed to take a quick break, stretch their legs a wee bit and then shove off on their return paddle back to Gilford, or somewhere.

Was it simply three kayak paddlers aged 60's and 50's who could be cold, wet and tired after a long paddle from Gilford who needed to take a pit stop before getting back into their kayaks for more paddling? Peeing while in a kayak is problematic and difficult and is so much more comfortable to get out on shore, somewhere, and stretch one's legs before continuing on with the paddle.

If it had been three black bears, a momma bear and two small young sibling bears who got comfortable within the view of the homeowner's security camera while they did their business, it would have been delightfully cute to view, but that doesn't really translate over to similar activity with three kayak paddlers or something, so's probably I should give up trying to make an analogy, here, between wild black bears and kayak paddlers who need to take a pit stop when the lake water is a chilly 57-degrees. Just like the bears, when you gotta go ....... and you know the rest of this story.

From the photos in the first post, it looks like two of the paddlers are wearing black wet suits, while the lady with the bright yellow cap is wearing blue jeans which tend to get wet and stay wet when paddling a kayak.

I hear you on all points and have experienced the same for years. It's like living in the lawless Wild West. Back in the days when people were civil to each other and had self-control, I lived in a large city center and had more peace and quiet than today on a rural street.

Getting caught
 

Getting caught before there were cameras, A Farmer's Daughter Tale

Wife: Jake, the hired hand pee'd in the snow behind the barn.
Husband: How do you know it was him?
Wife: His name was written in the snow.
Husband: That's not unusual for a young man.

Pause. Throat clearing...

Wife: 'Twere daughter's handwriting...

haha....and with a stroke of the "pen"...

Honestly here, this thread is rediculous......

Would you Honestly want to have to go to court, as the plaintiff or victim in a trespassing case, where the only damage that was done, was someone peeing on your lawn, using a lounge chair on your deck, and make some comments about how they wouldn't get caught.

This is a prime example of why our country is in the state it is in.... I would be embarrassed to be pressing charges for the given circumstances.......The Police, and Courts have much more important work to be doing....

On the flip side a little facebook shaming seems like the right avenue, to address this type of issue.

It has already been dealt with, without the Police. My intent wasn't to press charges, I wanted the people to own up to it and apologize as well as bring light to the fact that people simply shouldn't act this way. They reached out directly, apologized profusely and we have all moved on. They were extremely embarrassed by their actions looking back. I think it was the wakeup call needed.

Whether it was posted or not, it is simply not ok to treat the property of others this way. This is one example of many reasons why our country is in the state it is in...Lack of respect for others.

Anyone that says they are OK with strangers showing up and pissing in their yard has something wrong with them.

What's the difference between using your lawn chairs, or lawn as a toilet and finding an unlocked door, gaining entrance and lounging in your living room for an afternoon? Nothing damaged. Nothing missing. No harm done?

I never said I would be OK with it.... Believe me over the years I have had to deal with various circumstances that I didn't like, but in the end simply wasn't worth my time to try and get an appology, or admittance of guilt....

Every Spring I find evidence that someone has been on my property, because it sits up high and provides a nice look out over the water, and ice fishing traps once set up..... In the end as long as there is no damage to my property, and nothing left that is going to cost me to dispose of, or makes me sick to look at.... it is what it is.....

Society has to accept some amount of displeasure.... life isn't roses all the time...

PS: At the time... these intruders had NO IDEA if anyone was home... or if children could view the video from another location!

In NH... the rare possibility of being convicted of a violation with a small fine, and a reasonable possibility of a large fine with time in county jail.

Our statute doesn't differentiate between someone urinating in the bush next to your house or on one of my trees far from any building. It does differentiate between open access - where you legally could be - and enclosed structures where you may not.

The law is also very specific on damage... and the dollar amount that must be met when using the open access privilege.

Robotic, Mobile, Autonomous, AI...?
 

Member LIforrelaxin has reminded me of a certain red canoe. A couple I didn't recognize pulled in close to my heavily-wooded property. Since all persons are entitled to Lake Winnipesaukee's watery resources, I took little umbrage at the sight. They could be moving rocks looking for crayfish, for all I know (and still be "legal").

Although my view from the porch was largely blocked by my own trees, one was keeping the canoe close to shore by holding onto branches. The other couldn't be seen at all, so I suspect my property was being used for nefarious purposes by an intruder! :eek:

I may have to install a camera, and cut down my shoreline trees in order to make a case! :fire:

That is, until Amazon offers a mobile (and robotic) camera that autonomously seeks out such interlopers.

:rolleye2:

If I have left a door unlocked, I have not done my job as a home owner to keep my property safe.... Have I?

Your trying to compare scenarios that aren't equal. When you leave anything outside and don't have your property posted with No Trespassing signs, the ease and legality of someone coming onto your property becomes a grey area.
If something is stolen off your property in such conditions, yes it is theft, but your insurance carrier may not cover you, because you failed to secure your property and made the theft possible.

Laws become very specific and change once someone enters into a dwelling uninvited. But yet you still can get tied up in legalities especially with insurance carriers, if there is no sign of forced entry.

I will not deny that what Codeman, found on his camera's is alarming, and I too would be more then ticked off, especially if I had audio (which may or may not be legal in some states, servailence equipment can't have audio) and heard what her heard.

The question becomes how would I handle the situation... My re-action would have been different.... with no real damage done, I just don't see the point other then maybe deciding to make the place look less inviting..... Putting up no tresspassing signs and property under servailance signs would generally do the trick...

LI,

Just an FYI... In NH, you have to post visible signage if you are recording audio. If you sue a Ring doorbell or security cameras that record video and audio, you need post signage as such so that whomever is on the property is put on notice that they are being recorded. This is why most doorbell/security cams come with notice stickers.

Woodsy

Missing the Point
 

Just because someone has the legal right to do one thing or another, that does not make it right. I have the legal right in San Francisco to go into a store and steal less than $900 worth of goods without fear of prosecution. However, this does not make it right, and I hope none of us would be tempted to exercise our legal right.

As I stated earlier, I don't think anyone would object in the couple discretely relieving themselves. The issue is their behavior and words caught on camera -- treating someone else's property as their own. This was WRONG, whether they had the legal right to do whatever. It is apparent that they had no respect for the homeowner and that is what people like me find so offensive.

Actually, in San Francisco you do not have a legal right to steal under $900 worth of goods. It is still illegal. It is just that the local D.A's will not prosecute theft under that amount. The law is not changed based on lack of prosecution. The law remains intact.

Hi Gary, I know that, but the net result is the same. I can go into a store in San Francisco and steal under $900 worth of goods with no repercussions. Not enforcing a law is the same as not having the law in the first place. Look at our border!

Not quite.

One is a direct violation of the law on the book... the other is a choice not to pursue action.

I'm confused, how is the net result different? I realize how we got there is different, but the result is the same.

Because if the trespass was a breaking of a law in NH, and Codeman chose to press charges... there is no ''prosecutor's discretion'' (other than Codeman himself).

I hate to put this in print (haha), but I agree with Major. The Bear Island posts have nothing to do with the law, the legalistic responses are silly quibbling. They have everything to do with right and wrong.

And these DAs who do not prosecute shoplifting and then brag about it--morons who are asking for big trouble, both for themselves politically and more importantly for society in general.

We need to enforce both general civility, as Codeman has done, and the law.

"Those DAs" know exactly what they're doing, they want big trouble, but are not the ones who will pay the price. They need to be booted.

I think Codeman handled this like a gentleman, I hope I have the same grace in similar circumstances.

You can't enforce civility. A law can be enforced, but civility is more an amorphous concept. The law attempts to codify it, but even then it has limits.

The behavior of people that feel what they did was unwarranted can be modified... but not always with lasting results. But for people that feel what they did was acceptable... that will never be modified.

I work everyday with the public, and I see/hear it everyday.

I am responsible for keeping some of this bickering going here. I can accept that. But in general I think it has been fair conversation, and has most of us thinking....

Rather than thinking about this as civility, and or the law.... What is really in my mind is Morals.

For a majority of society, it goes against our better morals to go onto someones property and use their belongings... Because it is against our morals we tend to take it very personally when it happens. This is what drove the laws we have today into place, to be able to punish those that go against the common Morals of society.

The key then becomes how off kilter from the Moral code does an act have to be to warrant punishment. For some it might be simply having a trespasser on their property, for others it may be once they felt mocked on their surveillance camera, and other are fine as long as their is no real damage. This is why the law had to be further broken down into misdemeanor and criminal offense categories....

To a degree I see no issue with Codeman's actions, and can appreciate how he felt. At the same time I sensed and maybe wrongly, that he was contemplating prosecution if possible.

To me what was done showed lack of a Moral compasses no doubt about it. However if property wasn't damaged, the chances of any type of prosecution becomes slim, and that is where I say it isn't worth it. Others may differ in that opinion and that is fine....

What I have learned over the years, is if someones Moral compasses is off, it is because of Drugs, Alcohol, or because their compass is just off.... In either case actions are in no way justifiable..... but we already have to many issues tying up our legal and law enforcement communities....

These guys wouldn't have done what the did if someone was home..... probably if neighbors where around as well.... But they saw an opportunity to be jerks so they took it... Anybody that has lived life worth living has made a questionable judgement call or two..... unfortunately society doesn't seem to want to take that into account anymore, and every infraction against the moral compass is blown out of proportion, in my mind.....

The license plate says Live free or die.... for so many reasons that saying is just simply not even close to true anymore.... It should read now Live Free as long as you don't offend anyone, just like anywhere else.

New Hampshire's Growing a Surveillance Society?
 

I think there is a "prosecutor's discretion".

About 20 years ago, my next door neighbor arrived in Spring to a broken windowpane next to his front door lock. His home had been violated, but nothing appeared touched or missing. His place, built in the 1940s, is only 30-feet from Lake Winnipesaukee's edge, so its location would've been inviting--given an emergency.

Was it a Ski-Doo "felon" in desperate need of a telephone to call 911? A "felonious" fisherman from a bobhouse who, despite his own efforts to avoid frostbite, desperately needed shelter and a space heater for himself and a child?

There are countless reasons not to proceed with prosecution, and I'd suspect countless cases never saw a courtroom. I'd expect Codeman could be strongly dissuaded from continuing under the desperate "felonious" circumstances listed above.

The above causes "desperate urination" to fall to a much lower level of prosecution. (Especially if such desperation is irritated by a medical condition).

We've lived next door peacefully for 66 years without surveilling one another. Is the posting of "ADT" surveillance and "no trespassing" signage a response of surveilling in one's home state? (Like the "killer" trespassing laws expected of New Jersey?)

Two "protected by ADT" signs have popped up nearby recently. One summer resident is from a New York City suburb--another from Washington, DC. (Two hotbeds of criminality).

Britain, with 4 million surveillance cameras, has described itself as a "Hellish Surveillance Society".

With the possible exception of a future NH trail camera, I choose not to be part of any "Surveillance Society". :cool:

We're not talking about offending people or questionable judgment. We're talking about people who felt entitled enough to not only trespass and violate others' private property but literally piss on, and brag about, it.

While I don't believe public shame is always the answer, there are absolutely cases where people need to be put in their place and others reminded of lines that should not be crossed.

I think Codeman's approach was swift and effective and, ultimately, won't hurt the offenders beyond their local reputations.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

I believe the whole idea of this thread as well as the actions from the offenders who were caught with their pants down can be summed up with just a few words:


Life is full of idiots and a-holes, dare to be different.

For a violation, which this would fall under because of the lack of posting or entering a structure by the offenders, once it was determined that the statute was broken, completely up to the property owner to press charges.

It is different when it enters into the misdemeanor and felony range.

That's cured by voting in new leaders. No new legislation is needed. The tide here is turning. New DA seems to be more aggressive in this regard.

To be clear, my intent was never to prosecute. Getting the police involved doesn’t necessarily mean charges. Many times bad behavior can be fixed with a stern talking to by a few boys in blue.

Public shaming was definitely intended. Had they not come forward and I was able to figure out who they were it would have become public knowledge. The courts of Facebook and perception in the public eye would have been harsh enough.

I think you handled it perfectly Codeman! Those trespassers are definitely well known to the locals and it didn’t take long for them to get the message. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if one or all of them were members of this forum.

Dan

Not anymore.
Police may only act in an official capacity.
If they make it appear that they are, when they are not.
They have committed a crime.