Trip Report
 

Arrived two hours late to MHT from PDX on my United flight due to thunderstorm delays. Whoa, a foreshadowing. Off to bed, lakeside. Upon arising I immediately noted that two McMansions now flank the property. Ack.

The water was higher than I'd seen it in summer, and very clear: the clearest in ten or more years. Also the lake was quieter, deader, than I have ever seen it. My nephew, who works at a marina for the summer, reports gas sales are way down. But Hannafords was busy: heck, we all have to eat. Rediscovered the joy of Polar beverages, which are not available out west.

Tried Waldo Peppers at its new location: yo, Bruce and Barb: you are sorely missed. 'Nuf said. Peking Tokyo was not as good as I remember, but Ellacoya was neat: great ambiance, service, and good food.

It is obvious that the state of the economy and the price of gas is having a huge effect on tourism. The cottages seem to be mostly vacant, and on the two nights I went to the Weirs it too was pretty empty. Wierd. But wierdest of all is the lack of patronage on the Mt. Washington. Good lord, how can they afford to run the Mount with very few paying passengers? Scanning her with binoculars from afar, she seemed a ghost ship. With fuel costs being what they are, the owners have got to be losing money, big time, which is a danged shame. I fear they may pull the plug. I would.

The highlight, as always, was seeing family again, and the feeling of timelessness when swimming in the lake, looking across the lake at the islands and the mountains. Very centering.

To conclude: now more than ever the lake can be a great place if you arrive with lots of money, but it seems a very tough place to try to make a good year round living.

I don't get it???????????????
 

Mr V,you have stated many accurate thoughts in your post but you finish with the same nonsense you started on a thread here a while back.Are we going to go back to that negative West coast vs East Coast nonsense?What is the point?Besides that,you are so wrong.what makes you think this area is so hard to make a living?

siksukr,

I agree. I recall previous posts that were questioning how "people can make money in this part of the country". I have to say, that I've lived in many parts of the country, and NH is a great place to earn a living. I think, like most parts of our great country, it depends on the industry that you are in relative to the community. If you are in a tourist area, and your business depends heavily on tourist dollars, you probably should have seen this down turn coming about a year and a half ago. God knows it had been a pretty good run for disposible income for the previous 10 years. The tourist business was booming. This "economic downturn" if that is what it is, will help weed out those who have allowed their business's and their lifestyles to expand, beyond their true earning capacity. I feel bad for those at Weirs and other parts of the lake, but for those who this is the first down economy they are experiencing, it will be a learning experience, and for those who have been around for 20+ years, they have survived before and will continue to operate through the difficult times.
What I found the most odd statement, was the comment on the McMansions. You can't have it both ways, we want people with disposible income to be in the area, during tough times, but yet we want to ostracize those with the money. These folks with the big houses and expensive boats. (the truly rich, not the impersonators) are who you want at your lake to keep things going. I for one welcome all, especially those with money, as long as they don't act like entitled buffoons, because they have a few bucks.

There is no doubt this year is going to be different then years past, but in the long run, and area as great as the lakes region, will come out unscathed and better for it. We will end up having better amenities due to restaurants, marinas and hotels treating their patrons as if they are welcome guests, because these are the only businesses that will weather the storm. Just my 2 cents. Enjoy the lake, especially now when there are less people to share it with

I find this logic completely irrational. Is it your assertion that people with a lot of disposable income are more likely to lack the good taste required to build a McMansion? I think I speak for Mr V when I say that the problem is not that people with money built next to him, its that people with no taste did.

In addition, I believe that rented cottages are more likely to bring disposable income to the area than McMansions, as they are utilized more frequently during the summer by people who actually take vacations. Renters are more likely to get out and spend $ over the course of a week compared to McMansion owners who are just as content to come up on weekends only and hang with their new flat panel LCDs. Obviously I have no evidence to support this claim but it makes sense anecdotally.

$75 fill up in Ctr. Harbor because the gas is cheaper there than at home
$100 trip to Heath's (love the ground beef, makes the juiciest burgers)
$300 fill up for the boat, oh and throw in another 50 for the jet ski's
$150 Coe House bill because you can only have so many Heath's burgers
$ 50 trip to Weirs because the cousins are here and you HAVE to go to the Weirs (that includes lunch and enough tokens to strangle a small elephant)
$ 25 to that cute little craft store in Moultonborough because that's the only place that sells those soy candles I love so much
$20 trip to Red Hill Dairy because my kids love "The Flavor of the Week"
$170 bill to pay the guy who gets rid of those weeds around the property because he uses a herbicide that's safe to use around water so it's worth the extra dollars
$100 jet ski repair (my son was right a rock got sucked into the engine)
$50 back to Heath's because the 17 yr. old came up with 3 extra friends we weren't told about
$4 Jojo's coffee and newspaper every morning
Lots of $$ spent by friends and relatives who come up to the house to enjoy the lake with us

Owning a McMansion on the lake and enjoying every moment we can up there = priceless

Meteotrade. Your right we do have a difference in the way we look at things. First off, I don't assume that all mcmansions (still haven't found a true definition for this term) are weekend warriors. I think some of them are year round people that purchased a seasonal place, imploded it and moved up for the year round to enjoy the area for more then 3 months (an obvious plus in year round economy, not just the fickle tourist money). Also, although they may not go to the typical touristy areas, such as Weirs. They have established a higher end tourist trade, such as the Merideth Bay restaurants and Wolfboro attractions. As for them just staying in their house and watching their LCD TV's, that's silly. I think they do as much, if not more on the lake (especially this year) because the cost of gas doesn't limit them, and they don't have to worry as much about the cost of going to a restaurant. Whereas, I need to budget my expenses, and I may eat at my camp 3 nights and splurge by going out 1 night. Also, I need to think about how much gas, I'm burning, they may not.
This doesn't apply to those who by "mcMansion", but truly can't afford them. Those people have the same, if not, more budget concerns then me.
I think the other issue, is what I may consider a McMansion, and what someone else considers a McMansion. I consider them anything that is over 6000 sq ft, others may consider them anything larger then their own cottage. Room for interpretation.
Needless to say, either way you slice it, it's a down year on the lake and that effects many people, so it's not a great thing. But it's life and we all need to deal with our own situations and act accordingly.

I'm not just addressing Mr. V here, cause I see comments like his posted from time to time frequently, but come on, central NH is a rural area, lol, it's still very much the country. Of course there are not going to be a lot of very high paying jobs here. Look around......we are 40 miles north of Concord. People come here to retire, get out of the the city, and enjoy the recreation.

The only way to ever turn the Lakes Region into a major place to work is to make it look like southern NH....I suspect most of us would pass on that. Enjoy the place for what it is......not what you think it should be. Lol, if it gets any more built up I might have to move north, again, and I would really like to stay put at this time in my life:)

I sort of agree with Mr. V.......this is not a place to make a very good living for a large scale work-force, but that's the point, of course it's not ! It'a a rural area. The infastructure needed to create these jobs wold make this place look like Salem NH. Do we want that future ?
________
HONDA C71, C76, C72, C77 DREAM SPECIFICATIONS

Of course that comment was a bit sarcastic, and I think we're mostly on the same page. However, I dispute that there is any correlation between the increased number of McMansions in the region and the increase in disposable income spent on local business. After all, how many times have we seen people post statements like, "the lake was really dead this weekend" or "the Weirs was a ghost town." The number of new big lake homes rises dramatically every year, but the number of people out and about only seems to diminish. Perhaps I am too sentimental, but I don't see how the suburbanization of rural NH is good for the economy in the long run.

Without further hijacking the thread, I'll leave with this question- when you have all the creature comforts of home (and more) in your vacation house, why leave?

Lakes Region Changing
 

What you are seeing is a change in the lakes region demograpics. Many people who have visited the lake for many years and camped, are now buying property and remodeling/rebuilding into homes like they are used to living in. In coming years many will retire at least part time to these homes. Renters and people willing to rent their property are bocoming fewer and fewer. As the population becomes grayer, more affluent and requires more services, the native population can only see their economic situation improve as will quality of life. More retail, better medical care. and better local infastructure will benefit those that were "here first". There will be some casualties as someone retired on little savings and income will not be able to afford the taxes that will continue to increase. I see the Weirs in 15 years as a strip of quaint specialty shops antique stores and resturants similar to say New Hope, PA. Business's that change with the times will do very well.

Design your business plan to cater to the McMansions!!! ;)

I always thought the term McMansions was a play on the word McDonalds, and as such, a McDonalds burger is to REAL food as a McMansion is to a REAL Mansion . . so a McMansion is a wannabe mansion, without enough money to spend to make it a real mansion.
A desired style or not, real mansions can be flashy or subdued, tasteful or over the top, they have quality in the workmanship and design whether they are 5000 sf or 16000 sf. . . .
I disagree that all mansions are McMansions.

If all of these McMansions or Mansions are so necessary...why do so many of them have For Sale signs in front of them and seem to never sell?? They are tearing down so many trees around the Lake and it is really a shame....just to build these huge homes...There are tons of existing cottages & houses For Sale around the Lake that could be *tastefully* updated...When will it stop?
Same goes for these new develoments.....just drive the road between Weirs Beach and Funspot...it just makes me very sad.:(

Winniluver,

As you look at the McMansions, and feel they are built in poor taste, many look at the older cottages as dumps that should be knocked down and rebuilt. I'm not saying it is right, but I think it is perspective of the individual.

My neighbors don't have to worry about a mansion being built next to their place, since, I'm just trying to make the monthly payments to keep my home out of the hands of Laconia savings.

As for all of those mcmansions with for sale signs in front of them. These are the homes that were full of the middle class wealthy, trying to be bigger then they are and living outside of their means. This is not the audience that we want to attract, since their revenue is as cyclical as mine. What we do want are those who can afford the homes they are in, weather they are uberrich or middle class.

Unfortunately. it isn't only the lakes region where people have bought "too much home" and in many cases they need to unload them to get out from under the debt they have accrued. It's too bad, but poor fiscal responsibility will bite your ass

SS, I think there is a difference in the sense of values between East Coast and West Coast. I also think New England Yankees know that "rich" doesn't always equate to money.

JMHO

The comment was not intended to dredge up that old Jim Morrison saw "the West is the best."

It was merely a statement of perceived fact.

Laconia is withering on the vine; the old jobs dried up and blew out of town long ago.

Where is an unskilled worker going to find a job which pays sufficiently to allow him / her to earn enough money to afford to buy a home and to seek a slice of the good life?

Not in the Lakes Region.

It seems to be almost third-worldish: Haves and Have Nots.

The lakefront is occupied by the well off and the wealthy, and well, most everyone else seems to be just getting by.

Absent: a thriving working class, and good paying employment for them.

If you come with money, great.

Otherwise, it will be tough.

On the Mount Washington this summer, I noticed that its' bow to smokestack to stern, overhead run of bright white lightbulbs, aproximately 50 bright whites, has been removed for this season.

Could be to save electicity?

It doesn't look the same without all those lightbulbs.
........

Between the higher cost of electricity, heating oil, & property taxes, along with much tighter mortgage money and the cold and wet rainy weather: waterfront home prices are falling so fast that you can hear them fall as you drive down the road.

.....timber....look out below for falling waterfront home prices!

Must have been one long extension cord, when they were lit... :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

from Wiki, for whatever that's worth
 

McMansion is a pejorative neologism, coined by NY environmentalist Jay Westervelt, (Westerveld)[1] to describe a particular type of housing that is constructed in an assembly line fashion reminiscent of food production at McDonald's fast food restaurants. The term is one of many McWords. A McMansion often denotes a home with a larger footprint than a median home, an indistinct architectural style similar to others nearby, and is often located in a newer, larger subdivision or replaces an existing, smaller structure in an older neighborhood.

A McMansion is generally considered[who?] a house between 3000 ft² (280 m²) to 5000 ft² (460 m²) in size, on small lots (the house itself often covering a larger portion of the land than the yard), in homogeneous communities that are often produced by a developer. Although they are generally large homes, they are mass produced and are not of the caliber of a mansion. Their cost places them in the purchasing range of the upper middle class segment of the population.

The term McMansion first appeared in the San Diego Union-Tribune in 1990[citation needed]; it later appeared in the Los Angeles Times[2] and New York Times in 1998.[3]




Mr V is correct, this can be a tough place to make a living. But I'd rather work to live than live to work.:)

Mr. Moyer, I think you are right. Only those who bought over their means on the lake will lose their homes. The prices won't drop if people don't HAVE to sell. Let's hope their aren't too many who did overbuy so that the prices drop too much. Of course if our taxes reflected a drop in price, that would be nice.

tis,

I think we are all intelligent enough to realize that despite how low our property values drop, we will not see a reflection in our tax bills. I found it amazing how often, the reasseeor was at my house over the last 10 years (I live in a growing town, where values went up rapidly), and I am assuming I wont see him again until there is a turnaround in real estate value. A sad fact, but true. I think if any of us are expecting the tax bill to go down, we will be setting ourselves up for grave disappointment. The big issue is the local governments are not in the business of giving it's current residents relif, instead they will cry that there are more needs for local programs for those who are in trouble economically. I have never heard of a drop in taxes.

In our town they said they were going to drop the rate per value amount, then subsequently raised values the mext month, raiseing taxes again. If you expect it, it doesn't seem to hurt as bad, but it's never fun. Just some realities, I've come to expect.

The most recent assessment of my real properties (admittedly located out on the left coast) DID reflect a decrease in assessed value of my home(s), with a corresponding decrease in tax amount.

It tracks and reflects the local real estate market, which has (ahem) weakened.

Surely you people should experience the same result.

A close family friend and very successful lakes region business owner once said to me "It is easy to live in New Hampshire, but it it not easy to make a living in New Hampshire"

Truer words were likey never spoken on this subject.

Way to go KonaChick........not everyone is staying home.Good to see you getting out supporting all those local business'.

Thanks 2+2, that was good information

I've been up here forever.....Laconia, or the Lakes Region is not withering on the vine. This has always been a rural, low-paying area. With all the chain stores up here most everyone has health insurance these days, unlike in the recent past (1970s) and though most folks are not getting rich, they are getting by like they always have. The unemployment rate is 3.8% in Laconia....that's it ! 3.8%.

You live by this myth that somehow this out-of-the-way place shoud be offering jobs like Boston or NYC. It is never going to happen, and it was never so. It is what it is here......same as always, and a little better from what I remember. There are more jobs here with benefits than in the past, and the population of Belknap county is up some 13,000 people in the last 20 years.....and all those 13,000 are not rich. I'll never understand why anyone would, or should think that this area is going to somehow be something it never was.....or never will be ?

As for being third-worldish....that's just silly:) The qulity of life in this area is OUTSTANDING for most folks. And the people that need help get it. Want the third world.....check out LA, and most of SoCA, lol.
There you will find "gated-communties" and millions upon millions of poor people living on top of each other.

Blog It!
 

This kind of "Trip Report" would be perfect for the Blog. Ive been blogging my vacation and I encourage others to do the same. You can blog about anything. Please help get the Blog feature rolling.

Click here or on the Blog link on the menu bar.

Weak Dollar=Oil-Rich Foreigners Buying...
 

Jeepers! How long were you gone? :eek:

It takes three years in my Wolfeboro neighborhood to finish (and sell) a McMansion: Bulldozers are still plowing the landscape at my abutting McMansion after 2½ years.

Unless there have been recent sales in your neighborhood, having two McMansions next door will cause your property taxes to soar. Please let us know how you fare on taxes: you may get "priced off the lake"!

A new McMansion boathouse has blocked the view of a senior's lakefront on Tuftonboro Neck. Have they at least left your view unaffected?

Different Lights
 

The Mount went by our house last night and it does have overhead lights, but they are different than the bright white ones it had for a number of years. The current lights appear to be very small blue bulbs or LEDs. In the daytime you can see the overhead wire but you can't really see the lights because they are so small. I think I like the new blue lights better than the old bright white ones.

Lest we all forget, there do seem to be a pretty fair number of people who do live and work and survive living in the Lakes Region year after year after year despite the weather, the economy and the McMansions.

So, someone is indeed making a living up there. Lucky dogs, you are! I wish it were me, but my stupid husband can't give up his (and excuse me for this) NY Giants season tickets. And, his family is here, more or less. And he isn't licensed to practice law in NH (and couldn't pass the bar exam at this point in his life - nor could I). And, and, and. . . .

There is always an excuse. But I repeat, those of you up there, all the time, in good weather and bad, in good economies and bad are as lucky as can be.

Period.

nj2nh

Not Personal injury lawyers?
 

nj2nh,
I can see by your post that you are not PI lawyers. Otherwise you would have amassed a fortune, like John Edwards.:laugh: That being said facetiously, you could service people here in the Lakes region, albeit it would be a long commute for Giant's games. But, if you wanted to do it there are plenty of "jobs" that would require your assistance. Why not try a real estate closing business where your legal minds could assist those who can't afford a licensed attorney but need help in closing. There are plenty of people that are not represented at a closing that should be.:)

Who ever came up with the term McMansions anyway? I think it's the dumbest name and no it's not because I don't own one.

Small hijacking here.

My husband does real estate closings. Everyone uses an attorney here in Jersey although they don't so much in the southern part of the state. The law only changed just recently so that lawyers are not required. We thought we would be out of business in a heartbeat.

But, my husband hates practicing law and I haven't done it in ages - raising boys is more important. Our hope is to spend entire summers up there once the boys graduate from high school - another six years or so. I am not so sure I could take the winters.

Believe you me, though. When we are there, I do find myself looking around for potential employment/income possibilities.

And then we come back to Jersey.

nj2nh

From Wikipedia
 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMansion

McMansion is a pejorative neologism, coined by NY environmentalist Jay Westervelt, (Westerveld)<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-0>[1]</SUP> to describe a particular type of housing that is constructed in an assembly line fashion reminiscent of food production at McDonald'sfast food restaurants. The term is one of many McWords. A McMansion often denotes a home with a larger footprint than a median home, an indistinct architectural style similar to others nearby, and is often located in a newer, larger subdivision or replaces an existing, smaller structure in an older neighborhood.
A McMansion is generally considered<SUP class="noprint Inline-Template">[who?]</SUP> a house between 3000 ft² (280 m²) to 5000 ft² (460 m²) in size, on small lots (the house itself often covering a larger portion of the land than the yard), in homogeneous communities that are often produced by a developer. Although they are generally large homes, they are mass produced and are not of the caliber of a mansion. Their cost places them in the purchasing range of the upper middle class segment of the population.
The term McMansion first appeared in the San Diego Union-Tribune in 1990<SUP class="noprint Template-Fact">[citation needed]</SUP>; it later appeared in the Los Angeles Times<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-1>[2]</SUP> and New York Times in 1998.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-2>[3]</SUP>

Learn something every day
 

Given this definition, "big house on a small lot, cheaply constructed", I would say that most of the housing on the lake that I thought might be given this label are, in reality, NOT McMansions. I guess they are just real mansions. :D

It's all relative as they say. Yes, I can move "up there" tomorrow and make a living but that's all. I by no means am rich but I do live better in Mas than I would be able too in Moultonborough. Well that is unless a large defense contractor decides to open shop in the area. :eek: Personally I'm content doing weekends for now and moving part/full time later on. By the time I'm ready my 401K + pension + owning in Mass out-right should support my life style. See you then! :D

Making a livin'
 

Making a living in NH is not as difficult as many perceive -- at least it is much easier than 10, 15, 20 years ago by far.

I commute an hour to Manchester and gladly do so as I can return each evening to Gilford. Portsmouth is an hour. Nashua and Salem are 90 minutes on a good day. And I know someone in Gilford that leaves for work at 3:45 am and heads to Boston every day, returning home by 4:30 pm. Someone else I know heads to Salem from Gilford. You just need to spend time researching.

But if you are used to "big city" wages and need to continue that same income amount, you should probably stay where you are...at least for most positions. If someone is truly looking for something in the area, your best bet is to find a local recruiter/headhunter that specializes in your area of expertise.

GB

I'm a commute chicken
 

I don't know how you do that 2 hours in a car each day, gravy boat. I telecommute, and highly recommend it - no gas expended, you can work in your pajamas, and your co-workers can only annoy you by phone or ICQ:D

Sure do wish I could do that. In the business I am in, I pretty much have to commute to Mass. 50 miles each way, plus I get to pay the 5% income tax. I do get $100 bucks back from the Commonwealth when I file my tax return, so I got that going for me. ;)

No tele-commuting allowed here. :(

Touchy
 

I read Mr. V's trip report and didn't discern any jabs at New England, New Hampshire, or the Lake for that matter. He may have been misled by the media into believing we are in a deep recession when we are not.

Business may be down slightly at the Lake, but don't forget, the weather (during early August) hasn't been all that great either.

Yeah a good thing to do but not realistic for many working people. Although growing the population of people working at home is still practically nothing compared to the rest of us.

commute chicken
 

TwoPlusTwo---trust me...I can do most of my job from home but my employer believes different. Therefore, the writer of the paycheck wins the battle. :(
I am jealous on 80 degree, sunny days when my husband emails me from his work station on our deck or from our lake cabin. Grrr! ;-)

Where Are They??
 

So, Waldo Peppers is no longer owned by Bruce and Barb?????? Where are they now?? I guess that explains all the changes there........:confused:

Terrific...

So, how does one explain your post to the wrong thread in the wrong section of the Forum?

Gosh, don't be so quick to flame.

Look at the opening thread, third paragraph.

How does that crow taste?

How nice you are you?? NOT !!
 

Well I guess if you read Mr. V's Post #1 in this Thread, you will see why my Post referred to Waldo Peppers......................So have I explained myself to you ?

:eek:

Here’s some threads to get you up to speed…

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=5841

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=6226

P.S.- Nice to know you are so perfect…

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...18&postcount=8

P.P.S.- Mr V – The crow tastes like chicken…

Perfection !!!!
 

Well GWC, I will say nice of you to notice PERFECTION when you see it !!!!!
Thank you so very much for that.

Another think I did notice is that it seems that you have eaten crow before since you know how it tastes !!!!!

Can you just be nice??

:eek::laugh: