Thermostat setting in unused cottage
 

I was wondering what is the lowest temp you would set your thermostat to in a year round home that will only be used every so often during the winter. I use to set it at 58. I'm thinking of dropping it much lower. I normally shut my water line off when I leave although I do not drain the water lines. I have forced hot air by gas. I have a dirt floor crawl space in one section and a full basement with concrete floor in the other section. The heating system is in the finished section on the basement. I was thinking possibly 45-50?? These heat bills will be tough this winter so I think lowering the temp will help the pocket book. I know lowering the heat can cause a whole bunch of other problems. Drywall could crack or pop and the screws. The crawls space with dirt floor may get colder than the other areas. Not sure what to do. Would love to hear what other will do.

Similar situation, forced hot air by gas, but all crawl space under. I just flip the thermostat all the way to the left when leaving after a weekend. It settles down to 48-50, depending on outside temp. I also flip off the pump breaker.

One thing I do have and highly recommend, for peace of mind if nothing else, is a FreezeAlarm. These were promoted by the NHEC a few years back. I got one after a heating system failure cost me a weekend repairing plumbing. Nice. I can dial in and read out things like current temperature, power status, etc. If something goes to trip an alarm, it dials out and alerts me, giving me time to respond before damage is done.

Lowering the inside temp so much does mean that a half day or more is required to bring up the walls and floors to comfort. Forced hot air makes it easier, as the air temp is brought up quickly. You just hear the system cycle on more for those hours. Keep your slippers on.

Why would you think that the crawl space part would chill off more?

Winter Setting
 

In the past we have set out thermostat at 48 to 50 degrees. I turned off the water but didn't drain the pipes. We have an unfinished dirt floor crawlspace with a poured concrete foundation. To date, nary a problem. We came up a couple times in the winter to check things out and if we decided to stay overnight, we simply cranked up the heat and turned the water on.
That was years past. This winter because of the cost of heating oil, we will, for the first time completely winterize and close the place up.
I doubt that you will have any issues if you set the temp at 45 to 50.

Why not 35 or off completely?

Other than draining the water the only major problem is liquids that will freeze. We put them in the shower, that way if they break or ooze there is no damage.

I never heard about drywall screws pushing out, could that be an urban legend? However it would be cheaper to fix a few small problems that heat an empty building through the winter. I have been leaving summer camps and cabins unheated all my life. The only damage has been a few pipes that burst because they didn't drain, and an exploded coke can.

As with most island camps, we have no winter heat so we are careful to drain all of the water: pipes, tanks, pump, and intake lines. Don't forget RV antifreeze in the drain traps. If your septic system has a shallow pump chamber, maybe some antifreeze in there and a short pump run to get some into the pump.

We have never had any problems with the structure itself as a result of the long freeze.

Turn it way down
 

I have turned my thermostat all the way down for 14 years without a problem. Temperature settles out at 40 - 45 degrees. The water is off but pipes are not drained. You might want to check where your pipes run. If they get close to an outside wall you may be looking for trouble because even though the temp by the thermostat is 40, next to the wall can be a lot colder on a 15 below night. Also pipes in cabinets, under a sink may be colder because the circulating warn air doesn't get to the enclosed space. Possibly leave the cabinet doors open. How cold does the basement area really get when the heat is turned down? Get a temperature recorder that tracks the lowest temp and see how low it goes.

A freeze alarm is a nice idea. I don't have one but keep thinking about it. I had a furnace failure one winter. Luckily no freeze damage because I had someone watching the house and discovered it quick.

One thing to note is that all objects get really cold and warm up much slower than the air temperature. This includes the bed. We have a water bed and heap covers on it so we don't have a problem. However, getting up to the camp late at night and planning to jump into bed is like getting into a refrigerator to sleep. You may want to make sure you have an electric blanket and turn it on as soon as you get in to thaw out the bed(s).

One other thought is your roof design, quality, and insulation. With the heat down snow tends to accumulate because not much melting occurs. What does melt tends to form ice dams at the roof edge. When I come up for the weekend and turn up the heat I start to get melting that backs up at the dams. I have one valley that has to be shoveled off or it builds up enough water and leaks. There are fixes for this type of issue but you should consider it ahead of time.

I have two Rinai space heaters with electric backup. I don't use the electric at all. I set the Rinai space heaters on the L setting and the temp drops down to about 50. I shut off the water but don't drain the system. I do leave the door to the bathroom open.

I also leave the hot water heater on, a couple of reasons for this but the primary being I don't like trudging through 4 or more foot high snow drifts to get to the basement door.

Of course I don't anticipate actually doing any of the above until we approach NOV!

i keep my Rinnai on the lowest setting and it keeps it int he 45-50 degree range. I shut off the water pump but don't drain. When i changed from K1 to propane I had another heater put in the crawlspace to keep that warm but 2 of the last 3 years I haven't used it because the crawlspace(concrete block walls) has stayed around 40. Heated it for about $400 last winter but this year I think i'm going to drain completely and shut down.

The reason that you want it higher is if you do not winterize and you have a power outage it will take longer for the house to get into the "danger" zone of pipes freezing and so on. I keep my house at 45 when I am not there. Depending on the outside temp that will buy my about a day before pipes would freeze. I was hopeing to have my generator hooked up by now but it is looking like it will have to waite tell next year :(

One other little trick that I've used in previous years is to turn the heat down to 45 or so,turn off the water pump but don't drain the pipes......then I open all of the upstairs faucets.....the pipes don't drain,but it allows for a little expansion in case a pipe should freeze slightly on a very cold night.

We have a finsihed basement and forced hot air heat. Temps been left on 42/43 every winter for years now with no issues. Water is shut off at the source in the basement but nothing ever gets drained. We simply just run it outta the faucets ( habit I guess ) and do nothing to the hoppers.

Turning down the thermostat
 

I also have a FREEZEALARM that I will need to reprogram as I believe I have the low temp too high. My only concern is the unheated rock foundation crawl space. There are many water pipes in this area. I always turn my water off at the main although I never have drained the pipes or worried about the toilets. I do leave the bath vanity cabinets open. My home has heat on the 1st floor although no heat on the 2nd floor. Gravity keeps the
2nd floor warm although much cooler than the 1st floor. There is 1 bath on that 2nd floor so I do need to make sure the difference in temps are ok. So what is the temp verdict?? 45??????

The verdict depends on how "tight" your house is. In my case the house is extreamly tight so I can keep it a little lower and be safe. I also have radient heating so it takes a long time for the basment slab to cool off. If you have a house that not efficient then I would keep the temp up higher.

If you want to help with your concerns you could replace your copper with pex tubing. The Pex will deal with freeze ups MUCH better.

I have had experience with trying to keep a cottage from freezing up. Having a heating system failure resulted in cracked and burst pipes...in 17 places that were found. The toilet also cracked.

The plumber had to cut open the walls and ceiling to try and find all the leaks. Finally, it was agreed that the cheapest way was to run new pipes over the surface of the walls, rather than opening up any more walls.

It worked out well and I put split foam insulation over the exposed pipes so they wouldn't sweat in the summertime. The system was drained, blown out and RV antifreeze was pumped throughout the plumbing, including the traps.

From then on, it has been a routine come the end of October. Our plumber contacts the town to have the water shut off and he is there at the same time. Then, he winterizes the system. He installed a water heater bypass so that the water heater could be drained without having to fill it with antifreeze. He also shuts off the breaker to the water heater. (prior to draining)

Come spring, he undoes what he did in the late fall, even having the town come to turn the water back on. The cottage is then ready for use.

It costs a few hundred twice a year but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than having the walls and ceiling torn out due to a freeze. I am capable of doing some of this work myself but I choose to let an insured professional do it.

In case anyone is wondering about homeowners insurance, yes it was covered but it took many weeks of going back and forth as far as responsibility. The company had to see fuel receipts to prove that we had propane at the time of the freeze-up. They wanted an itemized list of every single part replaced and wanted to see the old pipes and fittings that were split. It was a horror show, but they finally paid the bill which ran into the (low) thousands. That also covered carpentry, drywall and painting.

Drain it so not to worry
 

After two freeze-ups due to power failures on an island, though the house was built to be able to stay open (but cool) during the winter, we gave up and winterize. For heat to run, in most cases you need fuel (propane, electric, etc) AND electricity. Power outages can take many weeks to be fixed on an island, and this is where we had issues. (aquatherm issues too, but that would hijack this thread ;)

That said, my recommendation is to drain and blow out pipes. We drain the hot water heater by gravity, hook up a 60 psi decent volume compressor, and use it as a large pressure tank. This allows sufficient volume of air at pressure to ensure we have blown out lines. All drains and traps get RV antifreeze.

We do use the home on occasion in the winter. We bring both drinking water and use buckets of water from lake to flush toilets (kind of camping out but with flush toilets). When we are done, we add more antifreeze to toilet and we are set.

This way, you don't have to heat, worry about freeze-ups, and you can still use the house.

Wouldn't it be easier to rent a nice comfy hotel room in the winter? Hey, their even at cheaper rates then. ;)

Advice Sought...
 

I turned my 120-v water heater thermostat as far down as it would go :look: which was a couple of turns.

Now it just spins—and very loosely, at that! :eek2:

The water in the tank gets overheated and some CPVC fittings split open! :eek:

:confused: Is it possible to remove the thermostat to restore its operability?

(The location is tight, but not inaccessible).

Turning off the water pump breaker
 

When turning off the water pump breaker does this affect water in the pipes for a boiler system that uses forced hot water for heat. I never know when leaving for vacation if I should flip the breaker for the pump because I am afraid the the heating system will need more forced hot water for heat. Does anyone know if this is a closed system and I have nothing to worry about ? :confused:

I heat the home with oil heat thru a forced hot air system and turn the Temp down to 46 Deg. I also have a freeze alarm system that calls me if the temp drops to low or we loose power for an extended period of time.
I turn the water off and drain the pipe just in case. One other thing I open the door to the kitchen cabinet to allow the heat to get to the water pipes in the wall.
So far this has worked for me for over 10 years.

auto fill
 

It is a closed system, but the boiler occasionally calls for water to automatically keep the water level in the boiler at a safe level. For a vacation or week I probably would not worry about it, but for a long duration I would want there to be water available if needed.

Absolutely.Replace it though.Heres a quick how to.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2073790_repl...hermostat.html

Don't forget that some refrigerators can have difficulty if the temperature gets too cold. We had that problem before we turned the old fridge into a boat.

Freeze alarm
 

I have a house that I sometimes use in the winter also.

I have a freeze alarm that is set to call me if the house reaches 40 deg. This temp setting gives me time to get to the house or call for service before freezing sets in if there is a problem. I also have the the freeze alarm wired so that I can maintain the house at 45 when I'm not there with the ability to call into it in the morning to raise the heat to 68 so by the time I arrive the house is nice and toasty.

I wouldn't be without the Freeze alarm, just make sure you use a fresh / high quality battery for the battery back up as battery voltage will drop and cause a "trouble" alarm when the house is cool.

Charlie T

After having a fridge actually start to collapse into itself slowly over several years I now have a better appreciation for this problem. Fridges that have a auto-defrost mechanism are prone to problems if they are left plug in.... However as long as you keep the heat in the above freezing range I think you should be ok.... The issue come when the temp goes below freezing and the systems starts to sense a Ice up condition and starts to thaw itself... this leads to all sort of problems, ultimately cause a shortened life for the fridge......

I usually don't recommend anything less then 50 degrees to people when leaving a home. Now assuming the house is insulated this is generally very easy to maintain. This house will almost maintain the temperature just through thermal heating during the day and slow dissipation at night. Obviously the better the insulation, the better the home retains the heat. The problem with going lower is the response time needed if things go south in a cold spell. At 50 degrees you have some time. Additionally at 50 degrees the areas far away from the Thermostat never drop to low.

Now with all this said, if you have internet capabilities there are many monitor systems as someone mentioned. They come of course in all shapes and sizes depending on what you want. My cousin who has a place in Ossipee has one that will allow him to actually change the thermostat setting. So he can keep the place at 50.... and then when he knows he is going up for a weekend he can turn things up Friday morning, and when he arrives things are more reasonable to deal with. This system has also allowed him to turn the heat off spring and fall periods where he knows the furnace is kicking on only only briefly at night for a quick boost. Although these systems do cost some money up front, having the ability to check on things at your camp and saving by cutting back consumption, gives you savings in the long run with a piece of mind. If I ever decide the camp is coming down for a year around place, a monitor and control system will be designed in as part of the build criteria.

All of above works. I never saw a note that if electricity to water pump is shut off, depending on source of heating tap water, shut off if source is an electric heater. Very easy to burn out elements if there is no water in a heater. Also could shut off propane to water heater if propane and if water source is off.

Freeze Alarms ?
 

Question regarding ‘freeze alarms’…… This one for you techies !

Very interested in knowing type, Brand, Cost, etc of your freeze alarms.
Maybe CharlieT can you share info. about his? But also interested in others comments....

I have a Condo at the Lake, and sometimes we're not there from
time-to-time. I have thermostats set at 52-55 degrees, but want to know if temp drops below this setting.

Condo is heated by oil heat furnace, forced hot water. Two zones.

May have a problem with freeze alarm calling on phone line. I 'do not' have a conventional 'land line'. Using 'Magic Jack' for phone service, connected to my laptop computer. Phone service is delivered through VOIP (Voice over IP).

Can I still configure the freeze alarm, over this type of phone configuration ?

Oh, also, dumb question maybe.... If I loose power, then it comes back on, will my furnace automatically come back on also?
I assume there is some type of switch connected to the furnace for that purpose ?

Thanks,
Bigdog

BD, I think you will have a problem without a standard phone line (will your laptop always be there for magic jack?).

There are IP thermostats such as this http://www.diycontrols.com/p-6130-pr...hermostat.aspx with built in freeze alarms but they are pricey.

Your furnace should come back on without any user intervention following a power failure.

Consider wraping water line
 

We have a camp in Northern Maine where it usually gets much colder than here.
When we first bought we were told to drain the pipes and turn temps down to as low as they go or about 48. I couldn’t figure out why they drained the lines so we stopped and now just turn the pump off. What I would strongly consider is to wrap your water line in heat tape. It is cheap insurance and has worked for us for years. The other thing we do is wrap the whole area around the crawl space in 2” insulation that we remove in the spring.
This will go a long way to keeping the cold out from your crawl space. Block ANY and ALL places where cold air can blow into the crawl space as well.
We have a forced hot air system as well as monitor heaters and recently a wood stove that takes the place of all of the others when we are there. The forced hot air is poorly insulated but I’ve left it this way because it helps to keep the crawl space heated.
Hope this helps; it’s worked for us for the last 8-9 years.

Freeze Alarm
 

I just installed a freeze alarm connected to a spare cell phone at my camp this weekend. Both the cell phone and the freeze alarm have battery backup which will last for several hours when the power is off. I can call into the unit at any time and check the temp, power, and battery backup power.

I used a second cell phone number and an old cell phone I had laying around sine we do not have a land line at the camp.

Seems to be working so far and I just hope I never get an alarm call all winter

FreezeAlarm plus remote control thermostats...
 

I just noticed this thread come back alive...

I use two things for our lake home in Moultonborough and the combination works really well for our use:

1. I have a FreezeAlarm that will monitor the temperature and power situation within the house. Seems like many others use the same device with good success, too. And, yes you do need a phone line that still operates when the power is off if you want full protection. In the 6+ years that I have used the system, only once did I get a callout when the heating system itself had a problem. In all other cases, the callout was due to a power failure. I like the idea of using the cell phone as an alternative to a conventional phone line...

2. I have installed Aube thermostats, with a telephone controller module. These thermostats work like any other programmable thermostat, plus they have a feature that allows you to remotely call into the controller via the telephone and flip the thermostats from "vacation" mode to "comfort" mode (and vise versa). We spend every other weekend or so up at the lake in the winter and with this feature, I can call the house before we leave our other home and have the lake house nice and toasty when we get there. I usually set the vacation mode to 45 degrees to conserve fuel, and the comfort mode is the regular program. It works awesome; there is nothing like showing up late on Friday night without having to jump into a very cold bed.

Here's a link to a source for the Aube thermostats: http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Climate/Aube/

BTW, I run both the FreezeAlarm and the thermostat controller off the same telephone line. There is a way to set them both up so you can dial into one or the other.

Does the freeze alarm need some type of filter if the phone is run over a cable system? I understand the issue of battery back-up on a cable phone but I am uncertain if there is anything else that is different.

Thanks

Help!!! I have my phone over cable and the freeze alarm doesn't work with this set-up. Is it possible for the freeze alarm to coexist with a phone over cable??

I don't see why it wouldn't. Have you tried it and it doesn't work? What does or doesn't happen?

Tried it and it didn't work. I then read my manual and it said "if you have a DSL line or phone line through your cable company, you should install the appropriate filters on the phone line". I tried to contact Time Warner to see if they could help but dealing with those folks is impossible. Any thoughts? Thanks

What type of freeze alarm? Is it the type that gives a busy signal if you have a freeze problem? If so, perhaps the call waiting feature included with cable phones is causing the problem. Also, is your cable modem/phone adapter on a UPS?

DSL I could understand because the DSL signal is carried over the phone wiring and can interfere with some devices. A phone line provided by the cable company should just be a normal analog phone line (from the perspective of the device) and not require any kind of special filters.

What is the exact make/model of your freeze alarm?

It's called an intermediate FreezeAlarm. It is supposed to call up to three numbers if the temp. drops below a preset level. Also, you can dial in and get the temperature. What do you mean by a UPS? Maybe I need to try to set it up one more time?

Well, I have something installed in my house for that Just in case deal. WE bought a thing called a Water Cop.

http://watercop.com/

You can order them from Home Depot or online. The water cop goes on your water main coming into your house. with the freeze sensor connected, the Water Cop will shut off your water main, thus stopping any flooding from a frozen and split water pipe. There are also sensors that will sense water on the floor. Just in case the pipe pops for some reason and the freeze alarm does not activate the valve.

Can come in handy if a washing machine or dishwasher, ice maker line breaks while you are not home. I have sensors near all my water using devices.

I can also shut off the house when I go on vacation with the Water Cop.

BTW I have no association with Water Cop or it's sales....:D

Another thing I have is the little heat tapes on my pipes coming into the house. If I lower the temp way down in the basement I know the heat tapes will keep the pipes alone warm. And they do not use a lot of electricity.
I plugged them into my electric usage monitor and it was like $0.50 cents per day to keep them on.

Intermediate Freeze Alarm
 

Hi there, a bit late but I thought I'd reply anyways for anyone who finds this thread in the future. A UPS is an "Uninterruptible Power Supply", basically a large rechargeable battery with a power built in to supply power to devices which are plugged into it when the power goes out. I work for Absolute Automation and we sell all sorts of Freeze Alarms and other units. The Intermediate model is by far our best seller as it suits the needs for probably 80% of cottage owners and is relatively inexpensive.

On a year round & insulated, but not used much in winter, SURE set down to 48-50, shut OFF power to electric water heater, or another type water heater.
Better yet, shut off water at meter to house or well pump, etc.
Other little precautions makes common sense.