Stunned at Restaurant Closings
 

Why did governor Sununu destroy the hospitality industry?
Only 13 cases of the virus in a state with 1.3 million people
We were ready with enhanced sanitation.Customers were not concerned.
Sounds like a a case of CYA
Many restaurants will not survive

One of the major reasons was the southern cites were fearful of the onslaught from mass closing theirs.


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Are you not capable of providing take out service? If so, perhaps you should explore this...

Heard the same thing that those from the south were planning on partying north and spreading it up here. Yes, from the mouths of those intending. Good for Sununu, go to Conn, Vt or NY. :)

The answer was in the President's news conference. They said that their suggested restrictions will seem like they are overreacting. They are trying to keep 13 from becoming 1300 and no deaths becoming a hundred deaths. Further, if they are successful, people will also say they overreacted because the numbers won't get that bad.

China went from 278 cases to 75,000+ cases in ONE MONTH (Jan 21 - Feb 21). 6 deaths to 2239 deaths. At the start of that period they probably didn't feel too threatened either.

To be honest, I think some of the projections are hype but actual counts of sick and dead are real enough and something to take very seriously.

To deal with this, the whole world is taking a big economic hit but I don't know how else we can fight it. The only real weapon we have is to minimize its spread.

It’s going to get worse. The hospitals in the southern area are planning for the worst. They are already seeing packed emergency rooms as patients are coming North do to the wait in Massachusetts


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I agree a great compromise would have been max of 50% capacity and as you said enhanced sanitary practices or the restaurant and its patrons especially as they enter the establishment.


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Unfortunately Sam, most of our elected officials have never owned small businesses. If they did they would be less inclined to cancel events or enact restrictions. (I realize Chris Sununu is a small business owner.)

That said, it’s all about understanding and accepting risks. In 2019, nearly 500,000 people were hospitalized and 36,000 died from the flu. Not a big deal since we’ve accepted the risk of getting the flu. The Chinese coronavirus is an unknown. Couple this with the media and social media stoking the flame of panic, we are where we are.

I feel so bad for good people like you who provide jobs in our area.


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I find it quite interesting that Waterville Valley owned by the Sununu family is still open.

I do believe in three weeks every thing will open and we move forward. This shutdown gives the medical community a chance to catch-up. There will still be infected after the three weeks, but the ability to handle each will have been better defined


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I believe good leaders respond to changing situations, not just make a plan and stick to it no matter what. Much of the current situation status is unknown and unknowable. It is evolving. Further, even though it will have significant business impacts, business is NOT the foremost concern at the moment. President Trump has accepted he needs to manage the response to the medical crisis as the primary concern, and for now, to the exclusion of some other concerns. The potential cost to do otherwise might be catastrophic.

I think that's a reasonable thing to do.

Thanks for your support major....much appreciated from the thousands of hard working people in the industry who are now out of work..
I understand peoples concerns about the virus but there have been no deaths in NH, only 13 mild cases so far..
In 2009 The swine flu hospitalized over 250,000 people and caused over 12,000 deaths and there were no such closing of business', churches and sporting events. Many more people die of the common flu than have died from the coronavirus.
Most people in this business...servers, bartenders, cooks live pretty much week to week and being suddenly out of work is devastating to them.
We are going to pay our staff as long as the money holds out but I still think this was not a wise decision.

I'm quarantined to my home as of midnight tonight...
 

As are 7,000,000 of my neighbors for 3 weeks...In SF Bay Area.

I'll head out for food tomorrow and do what my Govt. has requested...

Sit on the couch and watch Netflix for 3 weeks and read. I've had years of practice for this. I'll do well.

To Go????
 

Samiam,

We love the Kitchen.....always have for over 30 years..........why oh why aren't you or your manager leading the communication to continue the work of expanding a Take Out business during these uncertain times. Giuseppe's has done a bang-up job communicating their strategy, so too has Buckeys.....

If for no other reason than to continue to employ a dedicated staff and to provide the residents of Moultonborough with some form of continuity.

Wishing you all the best during these very uncertain times.

unprecedented times
 

Restaurants are going to have to innovate to take out or lose weeks of business-maybe more. Servers will suffer. We all have to do our part to stop this thing otherwise we'll overwhelm hospitals (like italy) and THEN non-virus related deaths will sky rocket also. Italy is only reporting virus related deaths and omitting the s^%t storm from hospitals unable to keep up with demand.

Closing restaurants makes perfect sense
 

From NYT

"Sweeping new federal recommendations announced on Monday for Americans to sharply limit their activities appeared to draw on a dire scientific report warning that, without action by the government and individuals to slow the spread of coronavirus and suppress new cases, 2.2 million people in the United States could die."

Closing restaurants makes perfect sense if we are trying to slow the virus down and attempt to avoid overwhelming the hospitals. Anyone over 60 and healthy should be very careful. Anyone with medical conditions should be even more careful.

Everyone in the world is paying the price right now. Stocks are falling, interest rates almost zero, companies closing, etc. Some business will weather the storm and some will fail but we are all impacted economically one way or the other.

SAMIAM - can we get gift certificates thru a website?


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Thanks very much and yes,we are going to try some take out....evenings only. Tonight with corned beef for saint Patricks and our usual turkey dinner on Wednesday and we'll see how it goes.
If we have any success at all we will continue with a limited menu

I don’t think SAMIAM is as concerned about the VK (it is established) as much as for other small mom and pops. Especially those that tend to struggle this time of year. I hear the politicians talk about how they have to protect the workers who live paycheck to paycheck, but I’ve heard no mention of how some small mom and pops may loose everything.

Fact is; employees can apply for unemployment benefits. I am encouraging mine to do so and do so with pride. They have been paying into it and I have been matching their contributions. If their benefits are not enough, I’ll subsidize the difference. Only because they were thoughtful enough to ask if I’ll be OK.

Another fact; I’m an odd duck. It was the financial collapse that brought me to the lakes region. Unfortunately there will be very hard times fall upon some however opportunities will be created for those who can keep there head. Markets will rebound like whiplash. I will focus on getting my distillery open and hope to time things just in time for a celebratory toast with you all once this passes, as it will.

I just finished reading this mornings news about politicians discussing support (I read as bailouts) for the airline & oil industries, both who have made huge (some might say obscene) profits over the past few years. I haven’t read anything about plans to support small business, most of whom get by on far smaller margins and are the ones who push local economies.

Doesn’t sound right to me. I’m sending my thoughts to my senators and my congressman.


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www.waterville.com ..... click on 'covid-19 update' at top of page .... and as of today, March 17, the ski area is running the lifts, the base lodge and all restaurants are closed, and a lift ticket window or something is selling food take-out.

Instruction for using the rest room: take deep breath while outdoors, and hold breath while inside restroom. .... :emb:

Waterville is open with a couple inches of fresh, new snow ....... is good time to hit the slopes ....... at $70, is that a reduced price for a covid crazy-Tuesday ski price? Like, when Team Sununu first bought the area in 2011, they had $10-Tuesdays & Thursdays ..... those were the days ..... and Chris Sununu said the next year after raising price ..... "when you charge ten dollar for a lift ticket, what you get is a ten dollar skier."

www.waterville.com/cams

My sister-in-law works at an Olive Garden. Staff was told to go file for un-employment. Managers will handle the take-out orders.

Email from Patrick's:

Be generous, everyone
 

I have ordered pickup at the V.K. many times, and they do a great job. If I were in charge, I would have a message on the sign: WE WELCOME TAKEOUT ORDERS (with the phone number) or something sassier, and have a limited menu. For those who love the V.K., please remember to add a generous tip for those who prepared your meal. These people don’t deserve to go without their income.
Good luck, Samiam.

I was advised by my work to plan for 6-8 weeks of working remotely. I think three weeks right now is optimistic.

The only very slight silver lining in all this is at least around the lake at least it's not tourist season yet. But I think a lot of small businesses around the country will be gone forever by the time this is over.

Those whose savings are in CD's, annuities and other secure investments will be poised to pounce, while those whose savings are in securities will gnash their teeth and pull their hair...if there isn't the hoped-for bounceback.

Why did governor Sununu destroy the hospitality industry?
 

Same reason MA did, and the same reason CA is shut down.

States are going to get in line quickly for Federal disaster relief dollars/reimbursement, so all recommendations are going to be followed. Hence some states declared emergencies before the Fed Gov did.

An aside - today we drove past ~ 20 closed restaurants going to get office takeout. Also drove through two fair size office parks and saw about 10,000 empty parking spots that are normally full - in one area of one town. You can believe in this or not, but it's happening and it won't stop in 3 weeks.

T-bones take out today:

https://mailchi.mp/greatnhrestaurant...l?e=91a64d8b31

FYI - After you stock up, keep replenishing at your normal rate.

If not, you won't be ready if you need to self-quarantine.

VK listen up!
 

You are SPOT ON. VK is a lakes region treasure and take out would be awesome-especially now.

!!!!why for public safety !!!!!

VK To Go
 

I am not sure what the Village Kitchen's plans for the next few weeks are, but they are open today for take out -- just a corned beef and cabbage dinner, which is the only thing I wanted. When I go to pick it up I am going to tell them that take out, even with a limited menu, would be a good idea.

Also picked up some hot and fresh bagels this morning from Winnipesaukee Baygulls in Moultonborough. Heath supermarket also appears to be more well stocked than Hannaford.

The Cup and Crumb in Moultonborough is also still open, 6:30-11am, for takeout.

If folks have other updates for restaurants around the lake, please post them! I definitely want to support who I can!

Lyon’s Den
 

Just had a fantastic “corned beef and cabbage” takeout from the Den!

Support your local restaurants!

Dan

Wait a minute ... I thought tips were for the waitstaff?

What, do waitresses routinely split tips with the cooks?

If so, that's news to me.

Not saying "don't tip," just seeking clarification.

While it's not tourist season yet, many MA plates are pulling in to get to their homes early, I believe. We noticed an uptick in Wolfeboro this past week.

Cape May NJ has just put out a notice that says:
Stay away, we love visitors but not during a pandemic- they're seeing an increase in traffic and are asking people to not come down and bring the virus to their popular resort.

If anyone googles The New York Times or New York Post headlines, the up to date numbers are staggering, and the info is shocking. Italy put out a video on how carefree they were until everything started ramping up. It is very scary.

I love eating out, esp at VK, and gave Rhonda the picture of her and our waitress dressed up during Christmas we took. We hope to be grabbing takeout soon-

Stay safe, everyone~

I've been working from home for 10 years (in-calls center). It would be a lot harder without an internal IM/Chat program to share info with the team either collectively or to 'tap on the window' of a colleague.

Even if your home-office has everything you want close at hand, try to get up and walk around a few minutes each hour to avoid cramps, just like at your regular work-place.

I can’t believe the head-in-the-sand attitude. I suggest you spend some time looking at what is going on in Italy, with doctors having to choose which patients have a better chance of survival with ventilators, and being unable to help others dying on cots gasping for breath. Absent drastic measures, we are only a couple weeks behind Italy. And that is from the head of the NIH and Trump’s “face” of the pandemic response. If even Trump can now wrap his head around this, everyone should be able to.

No, there have not been large numbers of deaths in the U.S.... yet. As any epidemiologist will tell you, by the time the death toll starts to rise in a pandemic like this, you have already lost the battle.

This is going to be very painful for the economy, and yes, hourly earners, servers, etc. are the hardest hit. But at least if we act now we can have a chance at mitigating this highly contagious threat.

The flip side of this is that, if drastic mitigation efforts and social distancing are successful at slowing transmission and hopefully ultimately minimizing infections and deaths, we are going to hear how there was “overreaction” and “unnecessary harm to businesses.” The problem with these types of things is that if you’re actually successful on the front end, you won’t know how bad it could have been. Only if you’re unsuccessful will you look back and say that we all should have done more.

Stunned at Restaurant Closings
 

A good friend of mine is an ER nurse out in Montauk at the end of Long Island. She tells me they are inundated by people fleeing New York and, thus, bringing the virus with them, overwhelming their small community hospitals and totally depleting their grocery stores. The Lakes Region will likely be in the same position any day now. 🤦🏼*♀️🤦🏼*♀️🤦🏼*♀️


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I'm sorry, but what happens in Italy has little or no bearing on what happens in the U.S. Regardless, with socialized medicine, which certain segments of our country are clamoring for, deciding on who to treat or not treat is part of the deal. That is why a free-market health care system is superior.

My guess is that you don't own a small business. You wouldn't understand the frustration of having your business being destroyed and witnessing your employees suffering. As we speak, a good portion of our population is wondering how it will pay bills, feed families, and keep their homes. The economic price paid by this overreaction will be tremendous. And small businesses, especially restaurants, are wondering when and if they will ever reopen. Their lives matter too.

To date, the H1N1 crisis was far worse. (The present Chinese coronavirus could end up being worse, we just don't know.) How did we handle that? We didn't have reports from this country or that stating that the sky is falling. We didn't have the media or social media stirring us into a panic. We dealt with it by being responsible and taking metered steps in preventing its spread.

Personally, I don't want to see it spread, and have loved ones would probably wouldn't survive if they were afflicted with it. However, even they say it's an overreaction.

Makes zero sense. How a disease spreads and its death rate doesn’t change by crossing borders into a different country. Recall that this is a virus. You can’t cure it with antibiotics, all you can do is try to manage its symptoms and thereby only save some with medical treatment.

Good to know that our free-market health care system is going to save us, particularly when we have the same shortage of ventilators that Italy is facing. You state your concern for the wait staff and hourly employees, but many of those folks don’t have insurance in our free-market system. Are the hospitals supposed to turn them away so they can be the ones dying on the streets instead of getting some help in a hospital? The only difference between free-market and socialist health care systems in a pandemic is that the most vulnerable in a free-market system are the ones that will be turned away.

The entire point of “flattening the curve” is so less people are turned away and, hopefully, less people get sick. The lack of capacity of the health care system does not depend on whether it is a free-market or socialist medical system.

All lives matter. That is the whole point. And thanks for jumping to conclusions, but I have a professional services firm that is being devastated financially here. At the end of the day, we have to make decisions about putting the health of the country, collectively, ahead of business and even individuals. It will be hard, but we’ll get through it. Yes, some bills will go unpaid and there will be struggle, but the goal is that we don’t have millions dead.

How many people in NH need to die before you think it is justified to close restaurants, etc.? 100? 1,000? 10,000? Don’t forget, by the time you have a 100 deaths, you’ve already given 1,000 more an irreversible death sentence.

Since you have determined this country’s government—both sides of the aisle—are being irresponsible and overreacting, perhaps you can provide us with your credentials on epidemiology that anyone should take your advice over the head of the NIH or the CDC?

Meaning how Italy handles or doesn't handle a crisis has no bearing on the U.S.

Before Obamacare exponentially increased premiums, catastrophic insurance was affordable. As far as I know, hospitals never turned anyone away, before or after Obamacare. Whether someone decides to sacrifice to pay for insurance is a personal decision.



Easier said than done. Ask the restaurant owners on this Forum what they think. They can sleep easy knowing that at least according to you, it will be hard but they'll get through it. I'm in the professional services business, and although our employees are working remotely, our industry isn't devastated.

This is an easy one. 1500 in the U.S. There is precedence for this number. That is when our former president declared H1N1 an emergency. We are at 112 in the U.S. as this post is being written. And to the best of my knowledge, no one under 30 has died from the virus.

There are a lot of so-called experts, in many areas of life, who I wouldn't listen to. There are a lot of lay people, who possess tremendous wisdom, who I would always listen to. This is my opinion, which I'm an expert at.

One question Cow, what was your response to H1N1 in 2009? Other than the hysteria created by the media and swallowed by our government, I fail to see any meaningful difference.

I know of not a single epidemiologist that shares your “opinion.” And professing your “opinion” on an issue of a public health emergency—something which you apparently have no credentials for—is frankly irresponsible. Those who ignore the science and experts in a pandemic are the ones who will not be taking precautions, and will be the ones that are unknowingly spreading the disease and, in my view, ultimately responsible for killing people.

We should all be sure to reach out to you for your medical advice if one of our loved ones gets sick due to the actions of those who refuse to abide by the unwavering consensus of the medical community.

My god, how long will it take before people start jumping out of tall buildings?

If I see or hear the term "SOCIAL DISTANCING" one more freaking time, I will be the first one off the ledge!!!

I bet you believe all of the so-called expert climatologists who claim that climate change is an existential threat. I bet you don't know one of these so-called experts who deny climate change, or should I say manmade climate change. Point is, don't believe everything the so-called experts say.

I may not be an expert, but I possess common sense, which is vastly eroding in our society. Just because it's written doesn't make it so.

Common sense is apparently very much in the eye of the beholder. I’ll stick with the consensus of the medical community.

Imagine having so much hubris to imagine that you know more about this virus than all the medical doctors and epidemiologists of the world combined who study diseases all their lives.

I am the Chairman and a significant shareholder of a medium size business that may be slammed by our customers' Coronavirus precautions. But I support these steps 100%, maybe 110% in that I wonder if we should do more.

Most seasoned business people understand that they are always in a tough competitive situation, fighting pressures from all directions. I will not be complaining about the government, I will be working hard to mitigate the damage, and praying that no one dies.

Some Fun Facts
 

Here are some facts about the Chinese coronavirus:

218 - confirmed cases in Massachusetts
26 - confirmed cases in New Hampshire
0 - deaths in Massachusetts
0 - deaths in New Hampshire

Look, I am not saying that we should be carefree. But you have to admit that to effectively close Massachusetts and New Hampshire because of 244 confirmed cases is severely overreacting. That's 0.003 percent of the combined population! All I'm saying a more metered approach, that did not wipe out huge sectors of our economy, notably the restaurant business, would have been a much better approach.

What if you are Sam or Baygo, and had your business completely shut down? What if there was a good chance that your business may not reopen? What if you lost your business? Would you be so magnanimous?

I co-manage a law firm having 65 employees and a $20,000,000 budget. I know first-hand what this is going to do to us. Clients are going to feel like they have a green light to not pay us. We are planning for this. However, I am reasonably sure that we are not going to SHUT DOWN because of this. You can bet I would be super pissed if that were the case.

Not all. Dr. Drew thinks this is an overreaction.

Unfortunately, fox news is going to lose a lot of dedicated viewers.

and why is that?

Imagine having the hubris to believe an addiction specialist over all the world's epidemiologists and disease specialists. Not cherry picking at all!

I would be very upset, and I would attribute it to the virus, not the President or Governor.

Like the alarmists climate experts, most of the so-called epidemiologists and disease specialists you mention are government employees and benefit from large government. Isn't it in their best interest to take the most conservative approach. They cannot be wrong. They can say they told us so if our leaders took a different approach. However, if they offered a metered approach then they may be second guessed.

I see this when our firm seeks outside experts to help us navigate issues with our firm. For example, if we have an HR issue or a tax issue, I can count on our HR counsel and or our accountant to provide us the most conservative advice, costing us the most money.

A healthy amount of skepticism isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially when it concerns our government.

The government, and its decisions concerning the virus, is what caused you to lose your business, not the virus.

Someone mentioned the ill-fated cash for clunkers program. That program killed the used car industry in NH for many years. It was stupid. I know several used car dealerships who lost their businesses. Sometimes the government makes bad decisions.

Huh
 

And I would have guessed you actually understood exponential mathematics. I guess not.

Ok, boomer.

Wrong. Born in 1965.

Shut up with this phrase already. I'll say again, I hope you're not an educator.

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And in any event, since when is it a put down to be a boomer?


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Me too!!!!


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My students do not put any ideologies before facts, nor casually insult the professions of others. They're also definitely not the "snowflake generation" the older ones claim they are, based on the reactions here to a popular phrase all around the Internet that is not about age, but responding to asinine assertions.

I'm out, peace.

A Generation X slacker:)

Correct. Nailed it!


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Actually 1965 is on the cusp some say it’s a Gen X birth year some say Baby Boomer


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Topic change?
 

What a shock....we have gone from why Gov. Sununu decided to ruin the hospitality sector to testosterone-laced comments re whose fault this whole Coronavirus disaster belongs to, topped off with Gen X vs Boomer comments. Hmmm...how about this? If any of you, born in the ‘60’s or so, have offspring known as “Millennials “, would you please be kind enough to tell them to stay the hell out of the bars and off the beaches during spring break so that we might have a chance to limit the spread of this deadly virus? We need to pull together to fight this, and many in the younger generation just don’t get it, or choose not to.

The corona virus isn't targeting them, so why would they worry?

They're still young enough to feel immortal, and hey, when the older generation dies they'll get their inheritance that much quicker.

Doctor’s and nurses are sounding the alarm. Not just government.
 

The Doctors and nurses on the front lines are sounding the alarm too. Liberal and conservative health care professionals who are on the front lines. A few days ago our numbers were tracking like Italy(see link), and we haven’t tested a fraction, so who knows where this goes. But if we did nothing, who knows. NJ, NY, and CT are skyrocketing. Let’s not risk it.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...pore-hong-kong

I know several millennials for whom it is definitely about age. “The Boomers ruined our prospects. It’s all their fault I have huge student loans.” How about not going to a $50k/year school for a profession that won’t allow you to pay back those loans?

When I taught, the majority of my students fit into the “snowflake” category. Surprisingly, the hockey players were some of my best students.


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Hospitals v doc office
 

Yesterday I needed to see my doc for a sudden ailment (not respiratory) and was able to get an appointment at around noon, within 90 minutes of my calling. I was the only one in the waiting room. My being there solo and the ability to get in and out fast tells me that so far the spread is limited here... so far.

SBA Disaster Loans
 

The State of New Hampshire has submitted a request to SBA for a declaration to make small businesses eligible for loans under their Economic Injury Disaster Loan Program. The request has already been submitted and approved for Massachusetts with the following New Hampshire counties included: Rockingham, Cheshire and Hillsborough. It is anticipated that New Hampshire's request will be approved today. Attached is the SBA Fact Sheet issued for the Massachusetts declaration.

I just wish we could have a political cease fire until this was over ......probably same odds of me hitting lottery

I am so sad for those in the restaurant industry. Let's just hope this can end sooner rather than later. I'm not sure how much good a loan does if they don't have any money to pay it back.

As is always the case the benefit will vary on a per business bases. I personally have very little debt associated with our business, however the debt I do have is short term and a bit higher interest rate than SBA. An SBA loan would enable me to consolidate my debt at a lower rate for a period of up to 30 years. This can reduce monthly payments significantly which would be beneficial should this crisis go the expected 12 to 18 months full-term. Should I re-open an get in full stride sooner I will always have the option of paying down the debt sooner.

Agreed on the loan part Tis! Also the tax credits the government is offering are kinda useless as a business has to show a profit in order to put them to any use! I doubt many small businesses will show much of a profit this year, it's going to be tough enough just to keep the doors open!!

Dan

My cousin is a doctor at a large teaching hospital in NYC. He just tested positive. He's OK on symptoms (bad cold), but his wife reports that the health care providers are are going down first (no surprise), and that there is virtually no support for them or their families. She cannot even get a test, even though she's living with an infected MD

Not just the restaurant industry...
I have one daughter (expecting a daughter in May) :D who is a small business owner.
She is the owner of a massage salon in Hampton NH. She closed her doors yesterday. The older daughter and single mother of a 5 year old is a hair stylist and her shop just closed as well...the uncertainty of where this will go, economically, is overwhelming.

This is a HUGE disaster for the 108M people employed by the service industries... almost 1/3rd of the US population. Luckily the Fed & government are moving quickly to prop up these businesses & people. Hopefully it will be enough, but I do forsee quite a few closings.


Woodsy

This to shall pass...
 

Clearly, we are sailing through uncharted waters and this storm hit us as fast and as hard as a cat 5 hurricane. All of us, including the politicians and bureaucrats in Washington and in our states, cites and towns are doing the best we can in reacting to an unprecedented global pandemic and it isn’t useful to blame anyone for the viral outbreak or for any miss steps or false starts along the way. We are all blazing a trail to an unknown destination without a compass.

As far as the hospitality business is concerned, all those laid off are now eligible for unemployment without a waiting period. It is still evolving but in some states insurance companies are being required to cover the loss or reduction in income as a “business interruption” loss the same as if the building had burned. This may result in higher premiums down the road since the loss is not covered and therefor no premium was charged for this type of loss but it’s a step in the right direction and minimizes the financial impact of shutting down all or part of the operations.

Low or no interest loans are also being made available and federal income tax payment has been extended by 90 days though you still must file your tax return by April 15.

The broader issue is that while the danger from infection may pass relatively quickly, will anyone have any money left to dine out. The economic fallout will be enormous. The stock market is considered to be predictive of the future economy so while fortunes have been lost on Wall Street these past few weeks and though toilet paper may be scarce, Main Street has yet to feel the real brunt of the storm and we as consumers and business owners need to spend our energy working on our own financial plans. Stay healthy!

I agree--if I were Hillcountry's daughters or a waiter or an Uber driver with little to no savings, I'd be terrified. The risk here is worse than the disaster we averted in the already terrible 2008 downturn. I am fully supportive of proposals voiced by Mitt Romney, Steve Mnuchin, Donald Trump to distribute cash to individuals and businesses in need. Perhaps this is because they sound like typical Democratic plans (haha). But it is good to see that most politicians on both sides of the aisle recognize the economic crisis.

Some might argue the coronavirus is yet another example of natural selection, of nature seeking to cull the herd.

Our society, in the name of being civilized, understandably has for decades put innumerable roadblocks up to prevent the operation of natural selection upon the general population.

Social programs, soup kitchens, health care: all these things act to prevent the unfortunates, the losers, those who made bad choices or just had bad luck from reaping the consequences and dying off.

I sometimes wonder whether it's really a good thing in the long run to mess with mother nature.

In view of the seriousness and uncertainties of this current health crisis, most of us are doing what we can to be positive and to try to alleviate the situation. Many people are barely managing to cope with this. In my opinion, it’s vile to post something as negative as your message.

Agreed. [emoji817]

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Only a sick person would even think such a thing.

I think the impact this is going to have and our national debt is much more worthy of concerned then the virus itself.

This administration didn't care about the National debt even before this hit so I doubt they care about it now.

Please....... I and sure you were not complaining when your broker account, 401k and/or any other related retirement account was increasing by 30% because the economy was booming.

And your hero Barack O cared? If I recall, HIS ADMINISTRATION increased the debt by more than all the previous presidents COMBINED. Get off your high horse cowboy...

You haven't been paying attention because I have been. Unlike many, more money is not my sole desire. I've worked very hard for 50 years and I'm appreciative and content with what I have accomplished and what I have.

He's certainly not my hero but he had my respect because of his morality. I was very proud of Trump's press conference the other day when he praised everyone, Republicans and Democrats, for coming together and pushing things through without trashing or name calling anyone. But that was short lived.

Then you are the only person in the country that complains when their retirement account increases. :laugh: I never said you were not proud of your accomplishments, As I am.

I took over a family business that was near bankruptcy and 20 years later more than doubled my sales, my fleet and employees not to mention what I help build in NYC and sold it for a nice profit but I am still concerned in my semi retirement that my accounts appreciate

I was very happy when my IRA was going up but I also expected it to come back down to reality, just not this way.
I've been through quite a few recessions so another one comes as no surprise. The surprise is what has caused it.
I was a small business owner for over 35 years so I know what the struggles are. I started with nothing, I had no family business and no college education. The only way I knew to get through recessions was to roll up my sleeves and work harder. Any successful business owner knows that the 40 hour work week is for employees only.
I'm registered as an Independent so I don't vote party lines. I vote for who I have the most respect for at the time. I really wish I could say I had respect for this President. But my respect is not money driven.

Reasonable people can disagree on spending, taxes, and deficits--but consistency is important. Obama's deficits were driven by stimulus policies to get us out of the 2008-09 crisis.

Trump is now about to do the same (on top of his previous policies designed to feed the stock market as Joey noted).

I noted earlier that I agreed with Trump's stimulus comments of the past couple of days (just as I agreed with Obama's 10 years ago). I wonder if the Trump supporters who railed against the Obama stimulus will now rail against the Trump stimulus? Or applaud the Trump stimulus and opine that they were wrong about Obama? Or come up with some sort of lame evasion for their inconsistency?

You really expected it to go down? Come on. Given the history of the market over the past 50 years that would be a very unsubstantiated point of view. I lived through the same recessions plus had to deal with 911 just 2 miles from my busiest concrete plant. I have seen more than my share of downturns mortgaged my home and business to the hilt to keep my employees going and worked 14 hour days six days a week for 30 years and maintained a CPA tax practice. You are preaching to the choir

If you've read my past posts on other threads, yes I expected a recession, and no, I wasn't wishing for one. I just didn't expect it would be caused by a Pandemic.

If you did then you are psychic or psychotic not sure which :laugh:

I wish I was psychic, maybe psychotic. Although I picked the perfect time to retire, March 1st, so maybe I am psychic. :D
I forced the tenant renting my property to sign a 10 year lease as I knew the 5 year lease, that he wanted, wouldn't be long enough to get me into the recovery years.
Expansions don't last forever. Recessions are a reset, but the cause of this one was not something anyone saw coming.

Does Village Kitchen accept plastic yet?

Thanks